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Post by oggyoggy on May 7, 2013 6:50:09 GMT
When we lose, or is it ENTIRELY the manager's fault??
Because it used to be mainly the players when we were sat safe in 11th position at this time of the season in previous years in the prem according to the vast majority on here. Now it is ALL Pulis' fault when we don't win, not anything to do with the players whatsoever according to the majority it seems.
We should have won the game yesterday. But a combination of negative tactics, an idiotic ref who whistled for the crowd, a fantastic response from the opposition and poor individual performances from our players led to us drawing.
I think, whilst Pulis should have been more attacking, the players stopped working and became far sloppier with possession 2nd half - Pulsi did not tell them to do that. We had numerous chances to bury them. Nzonzi, who on the whole was fairly OK, never passes forward. Walters cannot control or pass a ball, Jerome can't finish. Wilson was sorely missed in that 2nd half as Johnson was nowhere until he came off. Crouch won headers, nothing else. Whitehead looked very dodgy in all his game. Adam played well but is a liability every time he faces his own goal and all our midfield made silly tackles. Some of this is surely the players own fault and can't all come down to the manager.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on May 7, 2013 6:56:54 GMT
When we lose, or is it ENTIRELY the manager's fault?? Because it used to be mainly the players when we were sat safe in 11th position at this time of the season in previous years in the prem according to the vast majority on here. Now it is ALL Pulis' fault when we don't win, not anything to do with the players whatsoever according to the majority it seems. We should have won the game yesterday. But a combination of negative tactics, an idiotic ref who whistled for the crowd, a fantastic response from the opposition and poor individual performances from our players led to us drawing. I think, whilst Pulis should have been more attacking, the players stopped working and became far sloppier with possession 2nd half - Pulsi did not tell them to do that. We had numerous chances to bury them. Nzonzi, who on the whole was fairly OK, never passes forward. Walters cannot control or pass a ball, Jerome can't finish. Wilson was sorely missed in that 2nd half as Johnson was nowhere until he came off. Crouch won headers, nothing else. Whitehead looked very dodgy in all his game. Adam played well but is a liability every time he faces his own goal and all our midfield made silly tackles. Some of this is surely the players own fault and can't all come down to the manager. Mate, I suggested last night that maybe the players were partly to blame but was reliably informed that it was in fact all Pulis fault 100%. It doesn't sit well if Pulis gets anything other than abuse. Even if we win it is because the other team is shit or the players played well despite Pulis and not because of him. It's the Oatcake way.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 7:08:27 GMT
I agree with everything other than the 'numerous chances' bit.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 7, 2013 7:13:16 GMT
I love this sudden belief that playing a team going down to ten men automatically means an easy ride. Pulis hating bollocks at its very best worst.
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Post by jonnybravo on May 7, 2013 7:29:51 GMT
The players play how the manager tells the too,2nd half they changed it went for it pulis didn't know what do and must of told the players to sit back defend and hoof it forward, the man has no idea,if QPR and Norwich even changed there play and went to try get a result against us we wouldn't of beat them the man has to go
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 7:32:38 GMT
I love this sudden belief that playing a team going down to ten men automatically means an easy ride. Pulis hating bollocks at its very best worst. It doesn't mean an easy ride but we showed a complete lack of ambition regardless. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 7, 2013 7:38:07 GMT
I love this sudden belief that playing a team going down to ten men automatically means an easy ride. Pulis hating bollocks at its very best worst. It doesn't mean an easy ride but we showed a complete lack of ambition regardless. We got a well deserved point away against a team in desperate straights in a relegation showdown to make it 7 from 9 in what became three Cup Finals. I think some people really have lost all sense of reality. |
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Post by greyman on May 7, 2013 7:39:20 GMT
I think when you've routinely got up to five players out of position during games, the players probably need some credit for making the manager's attempts at shoehorning a functioning team together look half workable.
As usual, watching on telly last night gives you a different impression of the game. Interesting to hear what Pulis shouts at the players which was clear at times, including him telling Nzonzi not to pass the ball forward on one occasion. Make of that what you like, but my view is that when you're 1-0 up against ten men who were tonked the previous week, sitting back and hoping they don't score is not great management.
Also interesting to see a close up of Adam's and Nzonzi's reaction to the decision to bring on the entirely anonymous Etherington last night. That'll be Matty Etherington the busted flush with no goals and no assists all season.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 7, 2013 7:41:30 GMT
We let them off the hook. Two points dropped not one point gained.
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Post by fca47 on May 7, 2013 7:42:52 GMT
We were complacent in the second half. But we need a player who TP would trust in midfield but can also pass.We had positions where we should have buried Sunderland but the incisive pass never came. Wonder how much Yaya would cost?
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 7:43:38 GMT
It doesn't mean an easy ride but we showed a complete lack of ambition regardless. We got a well deserved point away against a team in desperate straights in a relegation showdown to make it 7 from 9 in what became three Cup Finals. I think some people really have lost all sense of reality. So you were happy with that second half performance Sheiky? You don't think we might have had a go at taking all three points? Maybe made some reasonably early changes and not taking our only creative player off? |
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Post by foster on May 7, 2013 7:45:51 GMT
I'm going with the perspective argument.
4 points from the past 2 away games is brilliant for us.
7 points from the past 3 games based on the form and run we were on prior to these games is also brilliant.
Yes we should have won, but they had more to play for, were at home and were clearly more motivated.
I suspect that quite a few people would have settled for a point before the game.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 7:50:23 GMT
I'm going with the perspective argument. 4 points from the past 2 away games is brilliant for us. 7 points from the past 3 games based on the form and run we were on prior to these games is also brilliant. Yes we should have won, but they had more to play for, were at home and were clearly more motivated. I suspect that quite a few people would have settled for a point before the game. It's a good result, but the cowardice of the second half is exactly why people are sick to their left teste of the manager. |
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Post by jjstoke on May 7, 2013 7:51:21 GMT
Pulis micro manages on the pitc which negates any chance of creativity.
It must be soul destroying for the players, and I can understand the switching off
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 7, 2013 7:53:25 GMT
We got a well deserved point away against a team in desperate straights in a relegation showdown to make it 7 from 9 in what became three Cup Finals. I think some people really have lost all sense of reality. So you were happy with that second half performance Sheiky? You don't think we might have had a go at taking all three points? Maybe made some reasonably early changes and not taking our only creative player off? I was pretty happy with our performance overall Rob. We've seen a couple of herculean efforts from our own team when down to ten men and I've been watching football long enough to know it entitles you to nothing. They were a wounded dog in their own back yard, the crowd were up and we got the point that secured safety. I headbutted the pub table when he took Adam off but that's football isn't it. After the Villa and Man Utd surrenders, we've got 7 points from 9 when some people were predicting not another point. I'll drink that in all day long. |
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Post by foster on May 7, 2013 7:56:54 GMT
I'm going with the perspective argument. 4 points from the past 2 away games is brilliant for us. 7 points from the past 3 games based on the form and run we were on prior to these games is also brilliant. Yes we should have won, but they had more to play for, were at home and were clearly more motivated. I suspect that quite a few people would have settled for a point before the game. It's a good result, but the cowardice of the second half is exactly why people are sick to their left teste of the manager. I understand completely and I'm not defending Tone's style. I don't mind him leaving in the summer. However, if I just consider the point (and recent points) then overall it's a good haul from the last 3 games. Realistically we should be safe already, but I'm personally keeping my Pulis thoughts on hold until the end of the season. |
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Post by JoeinOz on May 7, 2013 7:58:21 GMT
I'd have been OK with a point before it BUT every game has it's own story. The story of this is we were winning and in control of a game against a struggling side and we let them back in. If you have to go down to tem men you'd choose it to be against Stoke. we have no idea or inclination to use the advantage and go for the kill.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 8:00:41 GMT
So you were happy with that second half performance Sheiky? You don't think we might have had a go at taking all three points? Maybe made some reasonably early changes and not taking our only creative player off? I was pretty happy with our performance overall Rob. We've seen a couple of herculean efforts from our own team when down to ten men and I've been watching football long enough to know it entitles you to nothing. They were a wounded dog in their own back yard, the crowd were up and we got the point that secured safety. I headbutted the pub table when he took Adam off but that's football isn't it. After the Villa and Man Utd surrenders, we've got 7 points from 9 when some people were predicting not another point. I'll drink that in all day long. I'd have grabbed the result with both hands before the game mate but while they undoubtedly came out fired up it was painfully clear we weren't interested or capable of winning the game. |
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Post by JoeinOz on May 7, 2013 8:06:42 GMT
We were capable of winning it. Make no mistaake about that. That wasn't necessity.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 7, 2013 8:11:40 GMT
I was pretty happy with our performance overall Rob. We've seen a couple of herculean efforts from our own team when down to ten men and I've been watching football long enough to know it entitles you to nothing. They were a wounded dog in their own back yard, the crowd were up and we got the point that secured safety. I headbutted the pub table when he took Adam off but that's football isn't it. After the Villa and Man Utd surrenders, we've got 7 points from 9 when some people were predicting not another point. I'll drink that in all day long. I'd have grabbed the result with both hands before the game mate but while they undoubtedly came out fired up it was painfully clear we weren't interested or capable of winning the game. Sometimes you just have to credit the other team though don't you, Rob? I despise Di Canio but he clearly got them wound up second half and the Stadium got going. We weren't great second half but they were fighting for their lives and I've seen us do the same when reduced to 10 men at home. I think more perspective is needed and when put with the 6 points acquired in the previous fortnight it's been a great few weeks. |
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Post by apb1 on May 7, 2013 8:15:02 GMT
I was pretty happy with our performance overall Rob. We've seen a couple of herculean efforts from our own team when down to ten men and I've been watching football long enough to know it entitles you to nothing. They were a wounded dog in their own back yard, the crowd were up and we got the point that secured safety. I headbutted the pub table when he took Adam off but that's football isn't it. After the Villa and Man Utd surrenders, we've got 7 points from 9 when some people were predicting not another point. I'll drink that in all day long. I'd have grabbed the result with both hands before the game mate but while they undoubtedly came out fired up it was painfully clear we weren't interested or capable of winning the game. We made a few chances, I don't think we were told to sit back from the half time break onwards. But it was depressingly easy for them to get us on the back foot and they duly grabbed a goal, and could even have nicked it, to the extent that I was urging the ref to blow up in the end. We are limping over the line, but getting there is a massive relief. I just hope we get up and at Spurs on Sunday. and that Bale is somehow removed from their team  |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 8:20:30 GMT
If the players are to blame then maybe the guy that spent millions on them ultimately shares that responsibility?
The opposition going down to ten men doesn't mean you have an easy ride but we didn't even try to take advantage of the situation. No ball retention, no real intent to get players forward for a second goal. We just sat back and tried to defend what we had and as a result we didn't benefit from their red card one iota.
Negativity cost us again. It was a good point before a ball was kicked but the game presented an opportunity to us and the manager refused to take the initiative and make the advantage count for anything.
Our inability, or refusal, to keep the ball is criminal. Last night should send a reminder out as to why we desperately need a change in the summer.
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Post by luke2u on May 7, 2013 8:24:50 GMT
I think, whilst Pulis should have been more attacking, the players stopped working and became far sloppier with possession 2nd half - Pulsi did not tell them to do that. We had numerous chances to bury them. Nzonzi, who on the whole was fairly OK, never passes forward. Walters cannot control or pass a ball, Jerome can't finish. Wilson was sorely missed in that 2nd half as Johnson was nowhere until he came off. Crouch won headers, nothing else. Whitehead looked very dodgy in all his game. Adam played well but is a liability every time he faces his own goal and all our midfield made silly tackles. Some of this is surely the players own fault and can't all come down to the manager. Yes, he did. It was shown on TV yesterday with sound just from the ground, no commentry. Pulis was shouting "keep it" over and over again when players were about to pass forward. This man doesn't want his players to attack, and you don't win games this way. Hope the game on Sunday is the last time we see him lead the team at the Britannia. |
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Post by Miles Offside on May 7, 2013 8:36:25 GMT
When we lose, or is it ENTIRELY the manager's fault?? Because it used to be mainly the players when we were sat safe in 11th position at this time of the season in previous years in the prem according to the vast majority on here. Now it is ALL Pulis' fault when we don't win, not anything to do with the players whatsoever according to the majority it seems. We should have won the game yesterday. But a combination of negative tactics, an idiotic ref who whistled for the crowd, a fantastic response from the opposition and poor individual performances from our players led to us drawing. I think, whilst Pulis should have been more attacking, the players stopped working and became far sloppier with possession 2nd half - Pulsi did not tell them to do that. We had numerous chances to bury them. Nzonzi, who on the whole was fairly OK, never passes forward. Walters cannot control or pass a ball, Jerome can't finish. Wilson was sorely missed in that 2nd half as Johnson was nowhere until he came off. Crouch won headers, nothing else. Whitehead looked very dodgy in all his game. Adam played well but is a liability every time he faces his own goal and all our midfield made silly tackles. Some of this is surely the players own fault and can't all come down to the manager. Some do seem to follow the simple formula of crediting the players when we do well and blaming the manager when we don't. It obviously suits their agenda. Had we won last night they wouldn't have been on here praising Pulis. I've said several times on here recently that Pulis has his responsibilities and the players have theirs. He has influence over what goes on on the pitch. The players are responsible for their own actions. |
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Post by greyman on May 7, 2013 8:41:36 GMT
When we lose, or is it ENTIRELY the manager's fault?? Because it used to be mainly the players when we were sat safe in 11th position at this time of the season in previous years in the prem according to the vast majority on here. Now it is ALL Pulis' fault when we don't win, not anything to do with the players whatsoever according to the majority it seems. We should have won the game yesterday. But a combination of negative tactics, an idiotic ref who whistled for the crowd, a fantastic response from the opposition and poor individual performances from our players led to us drawing. I think, whilst Pulis should have been more attacking, the players stopped working and became far sloppier with possession 2nd half - Pulsi did not tell them to do that. We had numerous chances to bury them. Nzonzi, who on the whole was fairly OK, never passes forward. Walters cannot control or pass a ball, Jerome can't finish. Wilson was sorely missed in that 2nd half as Johnson was nowhere until he came off. Crouch won headers, nothing else. Whitehead looked very dodgy in all his game. Adam played well but is a liability every time he faces his own goal and all our midfield made silly tackles. Some of this is surely the players own fault and can't all come down to the manager. Some do seem to follow the simple formula of crediting the players when we do well and blaming the manager when we don't. It obviously suits their agenda. Had we won last night they wouldn't have been on here praising Pulis. I've said several times on here recently that Pulis has his responsibilities and the players have theirs. He has influence over what goes on on the pitch. The players are responsible for their own actions. That seems to work both ways though doesn't it? Some questions. Who signs the players? Who determines the training? Who decides on the tactics? Who has had years to shape the team in his own image? Who gets paid a lot of money? Who gets little or no pressure from the owners? Who decides that when we play the best team in England, it's best to start with five players out of position. Answer the last question first. |
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Post by Miles Offside on May 7, 2013 8:44:48 GMT
Which part of my post didn't you understand?
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on May 7, 2013 8:48:50 GMT
Should have won and Pulis should have gone for it.Against ten men the extra man should tell..if only we could tire out the opposition by passing the ball to each other. Jones and Owen should have been on, Kightly on for Whitehead with Adam in the middle. 2 points chucked away...but 1 more should be enough.
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Post by Miles Offside on May 7, 2013 8:58:05 GMT
Should have won and Pulis should have gone for it.Against ten men the extra man should tell..if only we could tire out the opposition by passing the ball to each other. Jones and Owen should have been on, Kightly on for Whitehead with Adam in the middle. 2 points chucked away...but 1 more should be enough. Agree that we should've gone for it and it's typical Pulis that we didn't. But Sunderland weren't the first team to come back to draw with ten men. It happens in football. We did it against Southampton. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 9:00:49 GMT
I'd have grabbed the result with both hands before the game mate but while they undoubtedly came out fired up it was painfully clear we weren't interested or capable of winning the game. Sometimes you just have to credit the other team though don't you, Rob? I despise Di Canio but he clearly got them wound up second half and the Stadium got going. We weren't great second half but they were fighting for their lives and I've seen us do the same when reduced to 10 men at home. I think more perspective is needed and when put with the 6 points acquired in the previous fortnight it's been a great few weeks. Sometimes you do and that's true to an extent but it wasn't as if we were good and they were better - we did absolutely nothing to try and turn the game back in our favour. We waited 20 minutes too long to make a change and the first one we made removed our only creative player. It's that kind of negativity that people are so dispirited by. |
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Post by PotterEd on May 7, 2013 9:10:34 GMT
Players take responsibility when it's their fault. For example, if we were creating chance after chance that were being inexplicably missed or if the final ball was always wrong etc. That didn't happen. What happened was, a team with zero idea how to play against ten men, made it quite clear that they had zero idea how to play against ten men. In those last ten minutes of the first half, just after Gardner had been sent off, Pulis should have had the players going for it - make it two before half time, but he didn't. It was more hoofing, no more players getting forward than had been previously.
To their credit, Sunderland came out firing in the second half but after weathering the storm for the first five/ten minutes, a manager with an ounce of attacking nous would have taken Whitehead off (Pulis made a point of saying he was terrified of making a tackle at half time as he was on a booking... get him off then, bright spark!!) and putting Adam in the middle. Then get width (Kightly and Ethers for Walters and Whitehead at around the 60 minute mark would have sufficed)and stretch the play. Continuing to play long balls through the middle against ten men is idiotic and typical Pulis. It was a scared and cowardly managerial performance which was proved by his post-match interview ('pleased to get a point')
How anyone can defend that is beyond me. Yes, we got a point, yes most would have settled for that before the game. But things happen in a game which would help 99% of other teams/managers to get a confidence-boosting win. The game summed Pulis up for me, not in a positive way.
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