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Post by Danstoke82 on Apr 25, 2013 18:16:25 GMT
Okey Its not an attitude problem in the slightest, it's concern. Concern that the man you champion in each thread is now taking the club we support backwards. He's done a marvellous job that I agree with but as stated in a thousand and whatnot other threads, his tactics, style of management and even player purchases are out of touch now. To be playing players week in and week out in positions that arent their own is truly scandalous in the Premier League. You would get away with it in say League One or maybe the Championship but not in this league and most have come to the now realisation that Pulis has no idea how to change with the times and this is why, myself included, feel the need that the club part ways with TP in a amicable fashion. This is the club we pay money into to watch every week. The club we are passionate about. I dont want to see the white flag before kick off anymore, I dont want too see a backup centre half on the right wing, I dont want to see a striker hung out to dry upfront all alone, I dont want too see players left out in the wilderness because they dont fit this rigid system that Pulis wont break. I dont want to see a defensive midfielder come on if we are desperate for a goal, I dont want to hear how we should appreciate where we have come from as other clubs around us (Fulham, Swansea, Wigan) where in a deeper mire than we were in the past, I dont want to see the manager publicly back opposition players and not his own, I dont want to hear him curse luck and blame the breaks as the only reason we surrended a game, I dont want too be labelled as "plucky" little Stoke City, I dont want to wait for things to drop in the transfer market as other competitors around us strengthen with players we could realistically bring here, I could go on and it's just all too much now. As a paying football fan I dont class myself as depressed or have a bad attitude, its just me seeing the light and realising that as this season has gone on, Pulis is completely out of ideas as to where this club needs to and must go in order to remain at the top table of English football. Of course, if Pulis was willing to change for the better of this team, introduce new ideas, have a look at youth, maybe tweak his transfer strategy, let go of players not good enough and blood a new era of footballer at the club than I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he needs to remain, but I just dont see how he is adaptable to do any of those things without always going back to what he feels is more suited for him and that is evidently what we are witnessing now. We have the players to really have a go but the Pulis system doesnt allow it. We have players who to be fair to them, arent really Premier League quality but he persists with them and some even out of position, so what chance do they have?. For all the abuse Shotton gets he really tries but when he is put on the right wing despite being a defensive player, he is being hung out by Pulis to a barrage of discontent. I've yet too see another manager play a defender out wide. The closest I ever saw was Chris Samba at Blackburn when he was deployed as a striker when needs must. I admire your loyalty to the man, I cringe sometimes when I see some of the abuse levelled at him, it's personal and not needed, I must admit, there have been times under my breath that I may of degraded Pulis a few times, Villa at home mostly and his dog awful press conferences but as a true Stoke fan, I'll never forget what he has done here. He brought Premier League football, something I thought I'd never see at Stoke during the dark defeats at Dean Court on a cold and wet Saturday afternoon. To have the opinion that things are not right and will not be identified if Pulis continues at the helm is not deemed having an attitude problem mate, for me, it's just being realistic. The club needs to move on and that in my opinion is away from Tony Pulis and his management. His time is done and I thank him. Dan, I think you, like many others, massively oversimplify the situation and focus on a lot of well used negatives. Rather than say, didn't TP pull off a masterstroke to get Matty and JP, statistically 2 of the Premier League's most accurate crossers LAST season, for less than a combined £5m, you would rather criticise him for playing Ryan Shotton at RW when under dificult circumstances he decided that was his best option. At least one of those appearances was for tactical reasons against Everton, to help contain Leighton Baines. So is a new manager going to come in and sign 2 equivalent players for the same money and get us firing again? It's just not that easy unfortunately. I've referred to our interest in Zaha, who went to Man U for £10m and presumably the north end of £100,000 a week. Where are these instant solutions to some of the problems? Do you honestly believe that TP "waves a white flag before kick off"? Do you honestly believe he's out of ideas in the transfer market when 2 of our most recent signings have been Steven N'Zonzi and Jack Butland for a combined fee of less than £7m? Sunderland paid £22m for Johnson and Fletcher, Liverpool £26.5m for Allen and Borini. We have had a bad run since the New Year, but I hope we will stabilise over summer. This is probably the only time in 7 years we haven't had clear, rapid improvement. It's great going on about passion, but as I keep trying to point out, Premier League football management is a complex issue fraught with difficulties. Oh, and presumably you weren't at Stoke when Glen Johnson, now Liverpool and England's right back played on the right wing in a 2-2 draw? Or when Patrice Evra played left mid for Man Utd at the Brit? Don't get so hung up about set positions - players are adaptable and do different jobs more often than you think. Ryan Shotton could become a decent Premier League right back, and maybe centre half too, but that doesn't mean he can't do a job when we need him at right mid. It's alright screaming for change and stating what is wrong, but take a look at some of the difficulties involved too. Fair answer Okey and yes you presumed right I wasnt at the liverpool game purely because I cannot afford to shell out all the time for matches. Whether he waves the white flag or not I cannot say but it sure as hell feels like it when he brands perfectly winnable games as bonus ones, do u know any other manager who approaches games like that?. It gives off an aura that hes going there not to win thats all and given our current predicament it certainly doesnt help my faith in him when we need to win games. Every game is a must win yet he deemed villa and qpr as not "must win". Either the bloke is cool as a cucumber or hes just blinkered as to what we need to do right now. There is no doubt Shotton could fill in in the right wing sure but fill in is all it should be. He is keeping a genuine right winger on the bench due to the managers decision. A defender is deemed better on the right wing than a natural right footed winger. JP was a good signing but why sign a player if you cannot handle him. Then block a loan move to Leeds allegedly which might of put JP in the shop window. Hardly a positive. N'Zonzi was a good signing granted. Butland is clearly regarded as our future no.1. Coincidently signed when Cartwright was brought in. I criticise him because I feel he is not getting it right and results would back me up. 2 wins this year against arguably the worst 2 teams in the league who are stranded at the bottom isnt progress for me and I cannot see any stability under Pulis unless someone gives him a rollicking. This summer smacks of being the same as others and If im wrong id be the first to put my hand up. I sense your still branding me a depressive with an attitude priblem regarding my feelings on Pulis. Its nothing of the sort and I certainly do not concentrate on the negatives. Ive been a Stoke fan for 25 years and like most have seen some good days but some also dross days but I have stuck with them. There is a lot of positives to take from Pulis. His tactics in keeping us up v Reading thanks to big Ade, promotion to the prem, seeing a player like Fuller at the club, an FA cup final, a european adventure. However there are negatives also and I feel you for one just wont listen to these as you see there is an answer for all of them. I can see that now we are continuing a downward spiral under Pulis. Finishing our lowest position since being promoted last season and now fighting relegation this season. If he stays then what will it be next season?. He could go out and sign players like for instance thomas ince, nathan redmond and a darren bent but would he know how to use them?. Would they fit his system?. Its all well and good him mentioning these players but would any of these choose too sign for a Tony Pulis side?. Butland was different. Clearly hes joined us because he feels he will play with Bego poss leaving in the summer and of course we have someone else involved in transfer dealings. Please dont say I focus on the negatives because that is far from the truth. Im just a genuine Stoke fan who can see that under Pulis things will not improve and just am confused as to how some, like yourself, still believe Pulis who has pretty much kept it the same in his entirity of a managerial career will suddenly change it around or be comfortable being told how to adapt his job. Yes theres stability but is that the height of your ambition as a stoke fan okey?. Stability and 40 points, which I might add has been a bit of a struggle gor us this season after a bright start. Clearly Im not going to agree with your views on Pulis. Thats fair enough. I just feel he simply has to have a dignified exit in the summer otherwise if theres more of this next season I fear his position might become untenable and start getting abuse which he should have had to endure if he would of just left with his head held high.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2013 18:22:46 GMT
Eurosport "We sat there for three or four hours chatting away about everything, and he never mentioned anything about whether I was leaving or not," said Pulis.
"If I was going to walk away then I would have told him by now, and I certainly didn't mention anything about walking away.
"This football club has been absolutely fantastic to me. The Coates family are wonderful, wonderful people to work for. My respect for them goes a lot further than just closing a door and walking away.
"People who know me know I'm not somebody who just walks off into the sunset."
But even if Pulis keeps Stoke in the Barclays Premier League for a sixth consecutive season, he cannot currently state whether he will be around for the next campaign.
"Let's get to 40 points and then we can start talking about everything else," added Pulis.
"I hope and want to be here, but it's everybody else, and the two most important factors in this are the family and myself. I've not said anything and the family haven't said anything." Teamtalk"There is still work to be done and other areas that can be improved," he added.
"I hope I'm the man to do it, but it comes down to the Coates family and myself getting together and talking about it.
"I've not said anything and the family haven't said anything.
"But if you're asking me if I'm happy, I've always been happy at this club." Doesn't exactly scream "I'm definitely staying" to me.Dunno - it is maybe a bit firmer than you'd expect if there was something unfolding? It would've definitely been possible to address it, but skirt around it quite a bit more than that if things were afoot. I really don't know what to think now. I was beginning to think things were only pointing one way, but now...who knows?
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Post by thehoof on Apr 25, 2013 18:23:43 GMT
Mighty, Yes it is.
Geoff, the goal against WHU was indeed an exceptionally well worked goal. Unfortunately the odd well worked ser piece has come totally at the expense of being able to play anything resembling creative play. Remind me again how many of our paltry 30 goals have come from open play?.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Apr 25, 2013 18:27:26 GMT
Doesn't exactly scream "I'm definitely staying" to me. Dunno - it is maybe a bit firmer than you'd expect if there was something unfolding? It would've definitely been possible to address it, but skirt around it quite a bit more than that if things were afoot. I really don't know what to think now. I was beginning to think things were only pointing one way, but now...who knows? I bet you haven't felt so confused since we nearly signed Goran Popov!
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Post by thehoof on Apr 25, 2013 18:27:33 GMT
Okey, Having been to the Etihad 3 time in 5 years, having watched our performance against Swansea away and ManU at home and an awful away performance at AV that somehow got a point, I do believe that TP raises the white flag. Sorry if its different from your opinion, but I can only tell you what I saw.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 25, 2013 18:53:19 GMT
Okey, Having been to the Etihad 3 time in 5 years, having watched our performance against Swansea away and ManU at home and an awful away performance at AV that somehow got a point, I do believe that TP raises the white flag. Sorry if its different from your opinion, but I can only tell you what I saw. Have to say it seems to me that your totally right............aren't they just bonus games, afterall?
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2013 20:06:44 GMT
Dunno - it is maybe a bit firmer than you'd expect if there was something unfolding? It would've definitely been possible to address it, but skirt around it quite a bit more than that if things were afoot. I really don't know what to think now. I was beginning to think things were only pointing one way, but now...who knows? I bet you haven't felt so confused since we nearly signed Goran Popov! Very similar on the Perplex-o-meter, Banksy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 21:09:10 GMT
Stoke Loud & Proud In response to the Mirror newspaper Peter Coates has come out and said TP not going anywhere. Oh shit. Could do with him elaborating on what Coates said. Did he mean not going anywhere after Norwich or anywhere at the end of season? So what did Coates say then? Can't see it anywhere.
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Post by s8to on Apr 25, 2013 21:23:04 GMT
Tony Pulis obtained his F.A. Coaching Badge at 19, and his U.E.A. A Licence at 21, making him one of the youngest professional players to hold that qualification. I find that a remarkable achievement. That's okay then, I bet TP feels vindicated now you've pointed that out. ...and since that day the game has moved on... The question is.. Has our manager, has his team...??
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2013 21:33:15 GMT
TelegraphStoke City manager Tony Pulis already plotting for next campaign after struggling season Tony Pulis is already planning for next season and will discuss his summer budget with chairman Peter Coates if and when Stoke’s Premier League safety is secured.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 25, 2013 21:33:21 GMT
Ferguson 71, Wenger 63, Redknapp 66, Heynckes 68.
Would be right to say the above guys have seen many changes over the years? Have they kept up to date. ?
If you expect Stoke to take on Man.U., Chelsea, Arsenal, Man. City, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton etc, by trying too play them off the park with flowing football, I think it's you that hasn't moved on.
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Post by elystokie on Apr 25, 2013 21:34:30 GMT
That's okay then, I bet TP feels vindicated now you've pointed that out. ...and since that day the game has moved on... The question is.. Has our manager, has his team...?? He probably realised very early on that he was a bit shit (especially if young Ants' 'ability' is anything to go by) so set off early on his lifetime mission to drag every fucker down to his level.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 25, 2013 21:34:36 GMT
TelegraphStoke City manager Tony Pulis already plotting for next campaign after struggling season Tony Pulis is already planning for next season and will discuss his summer budget with chairman Peter Coates if and when Stoke’s Premier League safety is secured. Oh well, we'll have to hound him out. Coates isn't that stupid surely?
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2013 21:36:21 GMT
TelegraphStoke City manager Tony Pulis already plotting for next campaign after struggling season Tony Pulis is already planning for next season and will discuss his summer budget with chairman Peter Coates if and when Stoke’s Premier League safety is secured. Oh well, we'll have to hound him out. Coates isn't that stupid surely? He's far too close to him. There was always the danger it'd bite us on the bum. Very depressing.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 25, 2013 21:38:16 GMT
bayernoatcake,
I am probably not as close to the Stoke scene as you are, but even I was fairly sure Peter Coates would not sack Tony Pulis. Those fans who thought he would are simply ignoring the facts and reality.
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Post by elystokie on Apr 25, 2013 21:41:30 GMT
bayernoatcake, I am probably not as close to the Stoke scene as you are, but even I was fairly sure Peter Coates would not sack Tony Pulis. Those fans who thought he would are simply ignoring the facts and reality.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 25, 2013 21:42:21 GMT
Oh well, we'll have to hound him out. Coates isn't that stupid surely? He's far too close to him. There was always the danger it'd bite us on the bum. Very depressing. I still think he'll go, I have faith in the family! I have to because another season with that eejit in charge is enough to drive me mad.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2013 21:47:48 GMT
MirrorTony Pulis insists he is going to be a hard act to follow at Stoke.
We revealed earlier this week that the Potters boss is quitting - and could even go as soon as his team clinch mathematical Premier League safety.
And he reckons his replacement is going to struggle to take the Britannia Stadium side to the next level.
He said: “What is the next level? Do people think we are going to be a top-eight club? Do people think we are going to go to cup finals? Well, we have already done that.
“Go to Europe? We have already done that as well.”
Mirror are still banging the 'he's quitting' drum.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 25, 2013 21:51:08 GMT
MirrorTony Pulis insists he is going to be a hard act to follow at Stoke.
We revealed earlier this week that the Potters boss is quitting - and could even go as soon as his team clinch mathematical Premier League safety.
And he reckons his replacement is going to struggle to take the Britannia Stadium side to the next level.
He said: “What is the next level? Do people think we are going to be a top-eight club? Do people think we are going to go to cup finals? Well, we have already done that.
“Go to Europe? We have already done that as well.”
Mirror are still banging the 'he's quitting' drum. How about a top 10 finish Tone?
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 25, 2013 21:52:52 GMT
I'm going with 'remaining at the club until somebody at the club explicitly says otherwise'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 21:54:26 GMT
MirrorTony Pulis insists he is going to be a hard act to follow at Stoke.
We revealed earlier this week that the Potters boss is quitting - and could even go as soon as his team clinch mathematical Premier League safety.
And he reckons his replacement is going to struggle to take the Britannia Stadium side to the next level.
He said: “What is the next level? Do people think we are going to be a top-eight club? Do people think we are going to go to cup finals? Well, we have already done that.
“Go to Europe? We have already done that as well.”
Mirror are still banging the 'he's quitting' drum. How about a top 10 finish Tone? Some football?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 25, 2013 21:57:22 GMT
How about a top 10 finish Tone? Some football? For a few games way back when we had that! He mentions a top 8 finish when it's entirely likely that Swansea or West Brom will finish in the top 8. Maybe it'll be a one off for them but if they can do it, so could have we, especially this season.
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Post by ParaPsych on Apr 25, 2013 22:00:46 GMT
MirrorTony Pulis insists he is going to be a hard act to follow at Stoke.
We revealed earlier this week that the Potters boss is quitting - and could even go as soon as his team clinch mathematical Premier League safety.
And he reckons his replacement is going to struggle to take the Britannia Stadium side to the next level.
He said: “What is the next level? Do people think we are going to be a top-eight club? Do people think we are going to go to cup finals? Well, we have already done that.
“Go to Europe? We have already done that as well.”
Mirror are still banging the 'he's quitting' drum. How about a top 10 finish Tone? I think this is fair enough. It was a target he set himself 3 seasons ago and he was gutted when we missed out after not beating Wigan on the last day. As targets go it's barely of ever been mentioned since.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 22:05:36 GMT
Some football? For a few games way back when we had that! He mentions a top 8 finish when it's entirely likely that Swansea or West Brom will finish in the top 8. Maybe it'll be a one off for them but if they can do it, so could have we, especially this season. Reminds me of when Mick Mills' team were whupping everybody's sorry backsides for a few weeks. That purple patch was no more representative of his time at Stoke than that pre-cup final spell was for Pulis.
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Post by lostinafrenchbar on Apr 25, 2013 22:09:09 GMT
Of course, yes, neither Mills or Pulis ever managed to get Stoke promoted to the top division so Pulis is as bad as Mills. I think I'm going to get a lobotomy.
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Post by apb1979 on Apr 25, 2013 22:12:35 GMT
Was talking to Danstoke82 on Twitter earlier & we both said the PC/TP relationship will damage us in the end because they are too close.
Also I hope John Percy isn't right & we are not after Le Fondre. He's not the type of player we need under TP. He will be used as another impact sub.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 25, 2013 22:14:31 GMT
That's okay then, I bet TP feels vindicated now you've pointed that out. ...and since that day the game has moved on... The question is.. Has our manager, has his team...?? Me? Well I'd say no. As far as I am concerned we've only moved backwards while talk of evolution abounds. The team is unbalanced and the tactics are just plain wrong now. I suspect Geoff disagrees.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 25, 2013 22:14:49 GMT
Was talking to Danstoke82 on Twitter earlier & we both said the PC/TP relationship will damage us in the end because they are too close. Also I hope John Percy isn't right & we are not after Le Fondre. He's not the type of player we need under TP. He will be used as another impact sub. I hope we're not after him at all unless we get relegated. I don't think he's much better than an impact sub tbh Ad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 22:15:18 GMT
Of course, yes, neither Mills or Pulis ever managed to get Stoke promoted to the top division so Pulis is as bad as Mills. I think I'm going to get a lobotomy. Well you've totally misunderstood what I said, so maybe you've made a wise decision.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 25, 2013 22:17:29 GMT
How about a top 10 finish Tone? I think this is fair enough. It was a target he set himself 3 seasons ago and he was gutted when we missed out after not beating Wigan on the last day. As targets go it's barely of ever been mentioned since. The players were mentioning it after the Christmas games but I can't remember if TP did or not.
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