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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 15, 2013 21:15:05 GMT
Let me say first of all that I'm not trying to deflect any blame from the manager here. There is one man primarily responsible for the mess we're currently in and I don't see how he can survive beyond the end of the season, if he doesn't end up leaving sooner than that.
However, I do hope that when he leaves, or worse, when we go down, the next person to clear out their desk is the idiot who thought it was smart to get petty with the manager and over our transfer dealings in January and, to a lesser extent, last summer. Given the immense importance of this season due to the massive influx of money next season, the scale of the work required and the actual ability of the owners to back the club with money, it is nothing short of a disgrace. We all knew that an awful lot of surgery was needed on the squad in January. We'd done well to get to the point we were at at New Year, but anybody could have told you that we needed, at the very, very least, more than one winger, a left back, centre-back cover and perhaps a new forward in the mould of Jerome but with talent.
What did we get instead? In an almost unprecedented move in Premier League history, the manager was sent off to London on deadline day to attend a work permit hearing for a young player from a toilet standard league carrying an injury, who won't feature until next season, if at all. It's the equivalent of him being packed off to attend a work permit hearing for the club's new Chinese cleaner. Meanwhile, our only centre-back cover was sent off without a replacement, the Crouch deal wasn't sanctioned as a move for Bent was reportedly blocked by the club, along with moves for Curtis Davies and Tom Ince. We supposedly had a list of 40 potential left backs and couldn't close a deal for a single one of them.
It was beyond petty, it was pathetic. It was utterly, utterly amateurish. To be playing games like that at such a critical point is simply unforgivable and I hope that whoever was responsible has the decency to pack their bags and go at the next opportunity.
TP has made some poor transfers in the last two seasons (major understatement there) but if he wasn't trusted to spend money then he should never have been kept at the club and the board should have brought in somebody who they trusted with their funds.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 15, 2013 21:20:24 GMT
I agree with that, MD. We are paying for that shambles now. We needed at least 3 players who were ready to go, not players with potential. I really don't know what's going on at the club at present, but spirit looks fucking terrible.
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Post by ravey123 on Apr 15, 2013 21:27:30 GMT
I agree with that, MD. We are paying for that shambles now. We needed at least 3 players who were ready to go, not players with potential. I really don't know what's going on at the club at present, but spirit looks fucking terrible. This is payback for not sorting the winger and fullback issue out - not just in this window but in the 3 before it |
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Post by thevoid on Apr 15, 2013 21:38:13 GMT
Let me say first of all that I'm not trying to deflect any blame from the manager here. There is one man primarily responsible for the mess we're currently in and I don't see how he can survive beyond the end of the season, if he doesn't end up leaving sooner than that. However, I do hope that when he leaves, or worse, when we go down, the next person to clear out their desk is the idiot who thought it was smart to get petty with the manager and over our transfer dealings in January and, to a lesser extent, last summer. Given the immense importance of this season due to the massive influx of money next season, the scale of the work required and the actual ability of the owners to back the club with money, it is nothing short of a disgrace. We all knew that an awful lot of surgery was needed on the squad in January. We'd done well to get to the point we were at at New Year, but anybody could have told you that we needed, at the very, very least, more than one winger, a left back, centre-back cover and perhaps a new forward in the mould of Jerome but with talent. What did we get instead? In an almost unprecedented move in Premier League history, the manager was sent off to London on deadline day to attend a work permit hearing for a young player from a toilet standard league carrying an injury, who won't feature until next season, if at all. It's the equivalent of him being packed off to attend a work permit hearing for the club's new Chinese cleaner. Meanwhile, our only centre-back cover was sent off without a replacement, the Crouch deal wasn't sanctioned as a move for Bent was reportedly blocked by the club, along with moves for Curtis Davies and Tom Ince. We supposedly had a list of 40 potential left backs and couldn't close a deal for a single one of them. It was beyond petty, it was pathetic. It was utterly, utterly amateurish. To be playing games like that at such a critical point is simply unforgivable and I hope that whoever was responsible has the decency to pack their bags and go at the next opportunity. TP has made some poor transfers in the last two seasons (major understatement there) but if he wasn't trusted to spend money then he should never have been kept at the club and the board should have brought in somebody who they trusted with their funds. So how do you explain our failiure to address the fullback issue in the previous windows since promotion? And perhaps the board didn't want to spend £6m+ on Ince to see him warming the bench. TP has been backed to the hilt, has wasted enough of the club's money, and can have no complaints whatsoever. This is why he's allowing the current malaise to take root, like a petulant child who's been told he can't have the toys he wanted. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 15, 2013 21:44:18 GMT
Let me say first of all that I'm not trying to deflect any blame from the manager here. There is one man primarily responsible for the mess we're currently in and I don't see how he can survive beyond the end of the season, if he doesn't end up leaving sooner than that. However, I do hope that when he leaves, or worse, when we go down, the next person to clear out their desk is the idiot who thought it was smart to get petty with the manager and over our transfer dealings in January and, to a lesser extent, last summer. Given the immense importance of this season due to the massive influx of money next season, the scale of the work required and the actual ability of the owners to back the club with money, it is nothing short of a disgrace. We all knew that an awful lot of surgery was needed on the squad in January. We'd done well to get to the point we were at at New Year, but anybody could have told you that we needed, at the very, very least, more than one winger, a left back, centre-back cover and perhaps a new forward in the mould of Jerome but with talent. What did we get instead? In an almost unprecedented move in Premier League history, the manager was sent off to London on deadline day to attend a work permit hearing for a young player from a toilet standard league carrying an injury, who won't feature until next season, if at all. It's the equivalent of him being packed off to attend a work permit hearing for the club's new Chinese cleaner. Meanwhile, our only centre-back cover was sent off without a replacement, the Crouch deal wasn't sanctioned as a move for Bent was reportedly blocked by the club, along with moves for Curtis Davies and Tom Ince. We supposedly had a list of 40 potential left backs and couldn't close a deal for a single one of them. It was beyond petty, it was pathetic. It was utterly, utterly amateurish. To be playing games like that at such a critical point is simply unforgivable and I hope that whoever was responsible has the decency to pack their bags and go at the next opportunity. TP has made some poor transfers in the last two seasons (major understatement there) but if he wasn't trusted to spend money then he should never have been kept at the club and the board should have brought in somebody who they trusted with their funds. So how do you explain our failiure to address the fullback issue in the previous windows since promotion? And perhaps the board didn't want to spend £6m+ on Ince to see him warming the bench. TP has been backed to the hilt, has wasted enough of the club's money, and can have no complaints whatsoever. This is why he's allowing the current malaise to take root, like a petulant child who's been toldhe can't have the toys he wanted What should have been done in the past is an entirely different issue to what NEEDS to be done, or what needed to be done at the time. The fact that the manager should have brought in those players in the past has absolutely no bearing on the fact that we were in dire straits by January and desperately needed players in. Either get them in or get a manager who you trust to address those issues. Don't sit there being a smart arse to the detriment of the club. |
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Post by spiderpuss on Apr 15, 2013 21:44:32 GMT
Apply post to the summer transfers. So many signings, so few of any use.
2012-2013 transfers haven't improved us one jot.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 15, 2013 21:45:41 GMT
I wondered how long it would be before the Pulis Apologist Group (PAG)came out of the woodwork. Absolutely outstanding effort.  |
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 15, 2013 21:48:30 GMT
I wondered how long it would be before the Pulis Apologist Group (PAG)came out of the woodwork. Absolutely outstanding effort. You have actually read the post, haven't you? |
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Post by BristolMick on Apr 15, 2013 21:53:21 GMT
MD, I think that maybe nothing happened in January because maybe the club had made the decision that this is Pulis's last season?
They maybe figured the extra £m's from TV and selling Begovic (hence signing Butland) should be available for a new man to completely reshape the squad (to De-Pulisfy it as Fuller Magic once said). With 30 points on the board when the window closed they probably imagined that we would be comfortably staying up.
Pulis is a lot of things but Stupid he aint and he must have been thinking, this is the first time the chairman hasn't backed me, he must have been wondering why he suddenly had to report to a new member of staff, why Peter Coates had put a barrier between them and why he had criticised his previous transfer dealings in public. He probably worked out that the axe was a few short months away, maybe he thought, not to worry I will have the last laugh, I have done it before and I will do it again.
Let's hope the last bit isn't true but either way from the outside looking in Coates is an absolute fool to act like he is going wield the axe at the end of the season and then to stick by the man he is going to chop as he turns everything to shit.
BM
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Apr 15, 2013 21:55:12 GMT
Spot on MD
Pulis wasn't allowed to bring in critical replacements in January leaving us light in defence and woefully short of wingers who are critical to the balance of the side
Whoever made the decisions must have assumed that we could muddle through to the summer. If we do go down then they will share a large chunk of blame for our current predicament
As MD has said - we can argue with Pulis's earlier signings but that doesn't change the current situation
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 15, 2013 22:09:40 GMT
Spot on MD Pulis wasn't allowed to bring in critical replacements in January leaving us light in defence and woefully short of wingers who are critical to the balance of the side Whoever made the decisions must have assumed that we could muddle through to the summer. If we do go down then they will share a large chunk of blame for our current predicament As MD has said - we can argue with Pulis's earlier signings but that doesn't change the current situation Member No.2 turned up. |
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Post by Sammz on Apr 15, 2013 22:10:29 GMT
Let me say first of all that I'm not trying to deflect any blame from the manager here. There is one man primarily responsible for the mess we're currently in and I don't see how he can survive beyond the end of the season, if he doesn't end up leaving sooner than that. However, I do hope that when he leaves, or worse, when we go down, the next person to clear out their desk is the idiot who thought it was smart to get petty with the manager and over our transfer dealings in January and, to a lesser extent, last summer. Given the immense importance of this season due to the massive influx of money next season, the scale of the work required and the actual ability of the owners to back the club with money, it is nothing short of a disgrace. We all knew that an awful lot of surgery was needed on the squad in January. We'd done well to get to the point we were at at New Year, but anybody could have told you that we needed, at the very, very least, more than one winger, a left back, centre-back cover and perhaps a new forward in the mould of Jerome but with talent. What did we get instead? In an almost unprecedented move in Premier League history, the manager was sent off to London on deadline day to attend a work permit hearing for a young player from a toilet standard league carrying an injury, who won't feature until next season, if at all. It's the equivalent of him being packed off to attend a work permit hearing for the club's new Chinese cleaner. Meanwhile, our only centre-back cover was sent off without a replacement, the Crouch deal wasn't sanctioned as a move for Bent was reportedly blocked by the club, along with moves for Curtis Davies and Tom Ince. We supposedly had a list of 40 potential left backs and couldn't close a deal for a single one of them. It was beyond petty, it was pathetic. It was utterly, utterly amateurish. To be playing games like that at such a critical point is simply unforgivable and I hope that whoever was responsible has the decency to pack their bags and go at the next opportunity. TP has made some poor transfers in the last two seasons (major understatement there) but if he wasn't trusted to spend money then he should never have been kept at the club and the board should have brought in somebody who they trusted with their funds. I've gotta go with MD on this one. It's much more believable than these TP is making us play shit on purpose conspiracy theories! Taking us back to whence we came would be a massive blot on his CV...why would he purposely do that?! |
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Post by Davef on Apr 15, 2013 22:20:52 GMT
Spot on MD Pulis wasn't allowed to bring in critical replacements in January leaving us light in defence and woefully short of wingers who are critical to the balance of the side Whoever made the decisions must have assumed that we could muddle through to the summer. If we do go down then they will share a large chunk of blame for our current predicament As MD has said - we can argue with Pulis's earlier signings but that doesn't change the current situation And who could blame them? When the transfer window closed we needed 10 points from 14 games. Hardly a tall order for a man who's "never been relegated" and hardly the kind of target that needed another £20M and a hefty addition to our wage bill to accomplish. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 15, 2013 22:22:44 GMT
Spot on MD Pulis wasn't allowed to bring in critical replacements in January leaving us light in defence and woefully short of wingers who are critical to the balance of the side Whoever made the decisions must have assumed that we could muddle through to the summer. If we do go down then they will share a large chunk of blame for our current predicament As MD has said - we can argue with Pulis's earlier signings but that doesn't change the current situation
Woefully short of wingers?
He bought one in January and he bought one in the summer.
How do we know that TP wasn't given a budget and blew it?
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Post by BristolMick on Apr 15, 2013 22:28:57 GMT
Let me say first of all that I'm not trying to deflect any blame from the manager here. There is one man primarily responsible for the mess we're currently in and I don't see how he can survive beyond the end of the season, if he doesn't end up leaving sooner than that. However, I do hope that when he leaves, or worse, when we go down, the next person to clear out their desk is the idiot who thought it was smart to get petty with the manager and over our transfer dealings in January and, to a lesser extent, last summer. Given the immense importance of this season due to the massive influx of money next season, the scale of the work required and the actual ability of the owners to back the club with money, it is nothing short of a disgrace. We all knew that an awful lot of surgery was needed on the squad in January. We'd done well to get to the point we were at at New Year, but anybody could have told you that we needed, at the very, very least, more than one winger, a left back, centre-back cover and perhaps a new forward in the mould of Jerome but with talent. What did we get instead? In an almost unprecedented move in Premier League history, the manager was sent off to London on deadline day to attend a work permit hearing for a young player from a toilet standard league carrying an injury, who won't feature until next season, if at all. It's the equivalent of him being packed off to attend a work permit hearing for the club's new Chinese cleaner. Meanwhile, our only centre-back cover was sent off without a replacement, the Crouch deal wasn't sanctioned as a move for Bent was reportedly blocked by the club, along with moves for Curtis Davies and Tom Ince. We supposedly had a list of 40 potential left backs and couldn't close a deal for a single one of them. It was beyond petty, it was pathetic. It was utterly, utterly amateurish. To be playing games like that at such a critical point is simply unforgivable and I hope that whoever was responsible has the decency to pack their bags and go at the next opportunity. TP has made some poor transfers in the last two seasons (major understatement there) but if he wasn't trusted to spend money then he should never have been kept at the club and the board should have brought in somebody who they trusted with their funds. I've gotta go with MD on this one. It's much more believable than these TP is making us play shit on purpose conspiracy theories! Taking us back to whence we came would be a massive blot on his CV...why would he purposely do that?! For the record Sammz I dont think he is making us play shit on purpose either, I just thought I would make reference to the binary escapade. He is doing what he has always done but his luck has run out. BM |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 15, 2013 22:31:27 GMT
Spot on MD Pulis wasn't allowed to bring in critical replacements in January leaving us light in defence and woefully short of wingers who are critical to the balance of the side Whoever made the decisions must have assumed that we could muddle through to the summer. If we do go down then they will share a large chunk of blame for our current predicament As MD has said - we can argue with Pulis's earlier signings but that doesn't change the current situation Who created the 'situation'? Yes the manager. We started the season with two wingers and we've brought in two more during the season. The manager has had 10 years to find a full back. It took him 10 years to find a midfielder who can pass the ball - since found out he's a surrender monkey. Coates has whinged about the Crouch deal - why would he sanction a deal for Bent? Everything is down to the manager and to try and deflect blame is clutching at straws and quite frankly pathetic. |
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Post by chamberlain on Apr 15, 2013 22:32:21 GMT
MD if it was your money would you have given TP any more to spend knowing how much he has wasted ,i certainly wouldnt. We should easily have enough talent in this squad to keep us in the prem ,but the manager doesnt want to drop his hard workers to acommodate the said talent.
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Post by aixpotter on Apr 15, 2013 22:34:15 GMT
So how do you explain our failiure to address the fullback issue in the previous windows since promotion? And perhaps the board didn't want to spend £6m+ on Ince to see him warming the bench. TP has been backed to the hilt, has wasted enough of the club's money, and can have no complaints whatsoever. This is why he's allowing the current malaise to take root, like a petulant child who's been toldhe can't have the toys he wanted What should have been done in the past is an entirely different issue to what NEEDS to be done, or what needed to be done at the time. The fact that the manager should have brought in those players in the past has absolutely no bearing on the fact that we were in dire straits by January and desperately needed players in. Either get them in or get a manager who you trust to address those issues. Don't sit there being a smart arse to the detriment of the club.
With 30 points on the 1st January, was it not a reasonable assumption that a further 10 points would easily be accumulated? Doubts about the manager there may have been, but such serious doubts that relegation would become a serious issue? Hindsight eh? |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 16, 2013 0:15:02 GMT
Although it didn't particularly seem like a major deal at the time, the decision to let Upson go without bringing in cover seems to have been a major error.
Undoubtedly we've been shit going forward, but our defence has also been quite sloppy since January and that could easily have cost us the one or two extra points needed for survival.
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Post by Sammz on Apr 16, 2013 0:36:48 GMT
Although it didn't particularly seem like a major deal at the time, the decision to let Upson go without bringing in cover seems to have been a major error. Undoubtedly we've been shit going forward, but our defence has also been quite sloppy since January and that could easily have cost us the one or two extra points needed for survival. I'll second that RRP. Upson could well have come in to cover Huth's recent 3 match ban & rescued us a point or two! He did have the odd goal in his locker & usually played ok when called upon... we'll never know though now. For a premier league club (currently) who've spent what we have not to have sufficient cover & healthy competition for ever position on the pitch is either negligence oor complacency in my book! |
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 16, 2013 5:17:48 GMT
MD, I think that maybe nothing happened in January because maybe the club had made the decision that this is Pulis's last season? They maybe figured the extra £m's from TV and selling Begovic (hence signing Butland) should be available for a new man to completely reshape the squad (to De-Pulisfy it as Fuller Magic once said). With 30 points on the board when the window closed they probably imagined that we would be comfortably staying up. Pulis is a lot of things but Stupid he aint and he must have been thinking, this is the first time the chairman hasn't backed me, he must have been wondering why he suddenly had to report to a new member of staff, why Peter Coates had put a barrier between them and why he had criticised his previous transfer dealings in public. He probably worked out that the axe was a few short months away, maybe he thought, not to worry I will have the last laugh, I have done it before and I will do it again. Let's hope the last bit isn't true but either way from the outside looking in Coates is an absolute fool to act like he is going wield the axe at the end of the season and then to stick by the man he is going to chop as he turns everything to shit. BM I think this is exactly what's happened. However, if the end game was always to see Pulis pack his bags, surely Coates would have wielded the axe by now? Or is he letting sentiment get in the way of logic? Scarily, perhaps he actually believes this 'Pulis has never been relegated' nonsense as well?  |
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Post by Binndy on Apr 16, 2013 7:50:48 GMT
I totally agree with MD comment and feel that there should be and I expect a basic standard of expectancy from the club,as a part of purchasing a PL match ticket. The main , basic standard,has to be ,the club having a complete team. For examples 3 GKs , 3 CBs , 2 proper LBs.
Complacency must have also played it part ,in Jan , a player breaking a bone ,other injuries ,red cards are all the norm in any clubs season.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 16, 2013 8:00:35 GMT
The club is bankrolled by bet365. Denise controls bet365. Work it out.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 16, 2013 8:05:57 GMT
The new head of scouting and player recruitment didn't seem particular;y fond of either of those activities in January.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 8:11:07 GMT
The manager was sent off to London on deadline day to attend a work permit hearing for a young player from a toilet standard league carrying an injury, who won't feature until next season, if at all. When does a player stop being "young"? Brek's 23, we're not exactly dealing with a 17 or 18 year old fresh out of the Academy. He's played around 100 games in the MLS and racked up 15 caps for USA. I wouldn't exactly class him as a rookie. As for the standard of the league, it is sub-standard to The Prem but that doesn't mean it can't produce good players. Dempsey, Donovan, Altidore are examples of that. I'm not saying Brek is going to be in the same bracket but lets not write him off before he's even been given a decent chance. If it's a choice between Walters playing on the left, or giving an unknown quantity, that is a natural left sided midfielder, a chance, then it's an absolute no brainer for me. |
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Post by RAF on Apr 16, 2013 8:12:18 GMT
Spot on MD Pulis wasn't allowed to bring in critical replacements in January leaving us light in defence and woefully short of wingers who are critical to the balance of the side Whoever made the decisions must have assumed that we could muddle through to the summer. If we do go down then they will share a large chunk of blame for our current predicament As MD has said - we can argue with Pulis's earlier signings but that doesn't change the current situation That is utter bollocks. He was allowed to , but he was told he would have to sell players to fund them. He tried to offload Jones and Crouch to fund Darren fucking Bent but Swansea and QPR wouldn't meet the prices. That tells you all you need to know about the manager. He's desperate for wingers and fullbacks, but thinks buying Darren Bent will cure all ills. H |
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Post by Squeekster on Apr 16, 2013 8:12:53 GMT
The manager was sent off to London on deadline day to attend a work permit hearing for a young player from a toilet standard league carrying an injury, who won't feature until next season, if at all. When does a player stop being "young"? Brek's 23, we're not exactly dealing with a 17 or 18 year old fresh out of the Academy. He's played around 100 games in the MLS and racked up 15 caps for USA. I wouldn't exactly class him as a rookie. As for the standard of the league, it is sub-standard to The Prem but that doesn't mean it can't produce good players. Dempsey, Donovan, Altidore are examples of that. I'm not saying Brek is going to be in the same bracket but lets not write him off before he's even been given a decent chance. If it's a choice between Walters playing on the left, or giving an unknown quantity, that is a natural left sided midfielder, a chance, then it's an absolute no brainer for me. Yes its not like our team is filled with championship standard players at best is it? Hang on a minute.................... |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 16, 2013 9:40:29 GMT
MD...You intimate that the transfer madness in January wasn't of Pulis' making but how can you be so sure?
My understanding of the situation is that the management side was restructured so as to give Pulis a helping hand in the transfer market, to broaden our scouting network. PC said as much recently and stated quite categorically that TP would have the ultimate and final say on incoming transfers but that he would most likely need to rely on more eyes and ears than ever before.
Pulis wanted Darren Bent in the January transfer window for a fee in excess of 10m. For whatever reason, he wasn't allowed to complete the deal or was warned away from that deal. Whoever did that, it was a wise decision in my opinion.
Is it wrong that TP should have more eyes and ears to rely on? Since the Summer of 2012, Tony Pulis has been hand delivered 5 options for the left back spot, 4 of them current internationals. He hasn't wanted any of them and has discarded each and every one without so much as a moments consideration.
Who really is at fault here? Have the new people made mistakes in their new role or has/was Pulis so stubborn, so pig headed that having not got his own way on another big money, ageing transfer target, that he simply threw his toys out of the pram and refused to play ball, refusing to sign anyone, leaving the board to sanction moves for two younger, promising future prospects?
The Transfer windows, both August 2011, August 2012 and January 2013 were a disaster. Whose fault that was isn't particularly clear.
The only thing that is clear is that Pulis has to go. Preferably now but definitely in the summer.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 10:01:35 GMT
What's a left back?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 16, 2013 10:07:43 GMT
Marcus Hall  |
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