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Post by Vestan Pance on Mar 13, 2013 13:23:57 GMT
It appears that there is some consensus amongst the anti-Pulis faction anyway. Of course we will support the club and the players, but that support has to be ignited by a display on the pitch that stirs the blood. It is a symbiotic relationship.
The one thing I would like some help on is Smudge's recent articles. His recent articles (I find) are unrepresentative of the conversations I have around the ground and the sentiment on here would seem to suggest a growing dissatisfaction with TP. The display at Newcastle seemed (on stream) as bereft of attacking intent as usual yet his summation was that we were unlucky.
I guess my question is this; what is the genuine sentiment on the street at the moment? Let's accept that people on here are in diametric camps, but is this the feeling in S-o-T? This site and every other Saturday are my only links, so perhaps these are not representative of the every day fan?
Just really wondered what other posters were finding around the city, and in their little enclaves on a match day? Are we in fact over-reacting on here, under-reacting or just spouting a load of emotional bollocks every chance we get?
Would be genuinely interested to know people's opinions.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 13, 2013 13:31:23 GMT
I think Smudge has been spot on in his recent articles. And I haven't always agreed with him in the past.
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Mar 13, 2013 13:34:01 GMT
4 out the sixteen who are on our mini bus are adamant that they won't be getting a season ticket for next year. One of them as even give his currant season ticket away for nothing. The people who sit around me in the ground are far from happy with Pulis' team
selection and the inclusion of both Whelan and Walters every game, they get even more frustrated my his substitutions. After the games I hear fans discussing the game as they leave and most are saying how boring it was and how they are disenchanted they are with the manager and players.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 13:35:21 GMT
Smudge's latest article follows the Pulis "we were unluck Nige" notion and that I completely disagree with.
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Post by baltipiesmuggler on Mar 13, 2013 13:35:22 GMT
My personal view - the majority of 'folks on the street' are bothered, concerned even, but just don't over analyse it.
We all want to see our club do well (except for a few misguided folks who think it would be 'helpful' to lose a few matches to prove a point). We all want to see us playing better football. It's just that naturally we all have different levels of patience, tolerance even.
Pulis has never had any hidden flaws - they're all in plain sight, yet the vast majority, myself included, were more than happy to accept these, because we've done so well. Now it seems, we've hit a ceiling - too many players TP doesn't know how to use, too many matches thrown away through negative approach.
The trouble is it's less than a year since I heard 'we'll play how we want' ring around the Brit....
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Mar 13, 2013 13:36:32 GMT
I think Smudge has been spot on in his recent articles. And I haven't always agreed with him in the past. I don't! He's painting a brighter picture of Stoke and its supporters than it actually is. The unrest and lack of optimism in the stands is there for all to see |
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Post by Danstoke82 on Mar 13, 2013 13:39:37 GMT
My view is that on the street, fans have simply decided enough is enough. We have seen our team been made a mockery of by the media and pundits alike, yet we have always shrugged it off because we were fully behind Pulis and were under the impression that once the 5 year plan was done and Premier League football was pretty much established then we would see different things, we had a taste of it with the cup run, europe and some of the players brought in, but Pulis has now scurried back to what he honestly believes is the best way forward for the club. Survival each season. 40 points and no real desire to really push us on because it would break his ethic.
I honestly think Smudge has just stated the flaming obvious and I am fed up with the notion of us "giving it our all for the players" as this was never in question, why would Stoke fans turn on the players when we can all see just where the problem lies?.
We the fans will always support the Stoke players but if the manager doesnt do his bit and almost single handedly costs us points in very winnable matches with the players he has at his disposal but refuses to use them, then the fans will rightly vent their frustrations at him because thats the only way we can get our feelings known.
I can see Smudge's point, he wants to get fans onside for the huge match come Saturday, almost like a Pottermouth battle cry but I think it would be absurd to suggest that even though fans will cheer on the team, they will be happy clapping Pulis also, more so, if we dont get 3 points with a decent win.
They simply just cannot keep banging the drum with regards to the 12th man if the manager doesnt appear to be on board.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 13, 2013 13:40:27 GMT
I think Smudge has been spot on in his recent articles. And I haven't always agreed with him in the past. I don't! He's painting a brighter picture of Stoke and its supporters than it actually is. The unrest and lack of optimism in the stands is there for all to see The main thrust of his article is that the fans should get behind the team and help them to secure the points for safety. I can't think of a good reason to disagree with any of that. |
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Post by mark71 on Mar 13, 2013 13:47:50 GMT
I totally agree with Smudges article.
We must secure our Premier league status BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.
Make no mistake, I want Pulis gone at the end of the season regardless of the remaining results or performances.
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Post by therightside on Mar 13, 2013 13:55:19 GMT
My first match as a Stokie was at The Vic on 6th October 1962 against Newcastle.
We won on that day and I have been follwing them since then, and have had a season ticket for many years.
I can say, without doubt, that my enthusiasm for the team has never been so low. I don't look forward to the home games, and I no longer go to away matches.
I blame one person for this situation, and that is the manager. These are his players, his tactics and his planning and it is getting worse by the week.
Over the years I have got to know many fellow supporters, and the vast majority that I speak to are grateful for Pulis' work in the past but all are agreed that his time is up and he should leave the club at the end of this season.
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Post by mark71 on Mar 13, 2013 13:59:22 GMT
BTW,
Smudge's coloum in the Sentinel is to represent his views and not those of the supporters.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Mar 13, 2013 14:00:22 GMT
Apathy more than anything else. Parking up after Radio Stoke announce the team people just seem to shrug their shoulders now. Conversations and jokes happen more and more whilst the game is on. People just shuffle away at the end and talk about anything but the football at half time.
I also disagree with Smudges Toon summary. They were knackered yet we were afraid of our own shadow. As soon as Whitehead came on, we looked at each other with a resigned you know what happens next. He totally bottled it again
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Post by jezzascfc on Mar 13, 2013 14:14:14 GMT
The only reason, I feel, there is not more protest against Pulis is that people have become resigned to how we play, the teams he picks, the after-match interviews he gives - it is just Pulisball in all its "gory" (L missed deliberately) and we simply have to put up with. Somehow the rank and file have been conditioned to believing it is a necessary evil to being in the Premier League, that only Tony Pulis and his negative mindset can keep us up.
Well, look to South Wales to see the alternative way of mixing it with the big boys, or even down the road to Smethwick, to Saturday's opponents. It does not have to be like this.
Maybe I am of a different mindset due to my isolation on a tiny island in the Mid-Atlantic now. I see every single game on my own in my living room (the wife usually falls asleep in front of Stoke games - she is a good judge!), so my only feedback is via this site, the internet and family and mates back home I keep in touch with.
The performance at Newcastle was better than of late, which is not hard, but we still barely created a chance worthy of its name, we still played to avoid defeat, we still set up with a team and formation in the classic Pulisball away game traditions, we still lost........change is needed as to continue to do the same and expect different results is the very definition of lunacy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 14:31:07 GMT
I totally agree with Smudges article. We must secure our Premier league status BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. Make no mistake, I want Pulis gone at the end of the season regardless of the remaining results or performances. I've been saying this since I joined the board.  |
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Post by mark71 on Mar 13, 2013 14:32:20 GMT
The only reason, I feel, there is not more protest against Pulis is that people have become resigned to how we play, the teams he picks, the after-match interviews he gives - it is just Pulisball in all its "gory" (L missed deliberately) and we simply have to put up with. Somehow the rank and file have been conditioned to believing it is a necessary evil to being in the Premier League, that only Tony Pulis and his negative mindset can keep us up. Well, look to South Wales to see the alternative way of mixing it with the big boys, or even down the road to Smethwick, to Saturday's opponents. It does not have to be like this. Maybe I am of a different mindset due to my isolation on a tiny island in the Mid-Atlantic now. I see every single game on my own in my living room the wife usually falls asleep in front of Stoke games - she is a good judge!), so my only feedback is via this site, the internet and family and mates back home I keep in touch with. The performance at Newcastle was better than of late, which is not hard, but we still barely created a chance worthy of its name, we still played to avoid defeat, we still set up with a team and formation in the classic Pulisball away game traditions, we still lost........change is needed as to continue to do the same and expect different results is the very definition of lunacy. Mate I've fallen asleep at the brit a few times lol. I agree with everything you've said but we must get the remaining 6 points. If we were on 40 points I'd sack Pulis today, well actually I would of sacked him months ago ;D |
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 13, 2013 15:10:50 GMT
Six points Mark?
We'd be on 39 and you'd have done the dirty deed under false pretenses and he's won the employment tribunal hands down
Ref Smudge & all those big words Dixie, I think they are a little on the half full side to me but the seniment is right, priority no1 is to secure pl status.
Then we can judge the season overall.
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Post by blurtonboy on Mar 13, 2013 16:56:05 GMT
I think Smudge is Dave Kemp, just a yes man
I also think Davesviews is John Rudge
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Mar 13, 2013 17:08:31 GMT
Six points Mark?
We'd be on 39 and you'd have done the dirty deed under false pretenses and he's won the employment tribunal hands down
Ref Smudge & all those big words Dixie, I think they are a little on the half full side to me but the seniment is right, priority no1 is to secure pl status.
Then we can judge the season overall. Do we need to wait till the end of the season to judge it, we all know we will probably win another 2 games if were lucky, and stay up doing that. That will mean some pretty disastrous statistics heading our way in relation to our team over the last 14 or so months and no other manager would dare try to survive with that record. |
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Mar 13, 2013 17:10:18 GMT
It appears that there is some consensus amongst the anti-Pulis faction anyway. Of course we will support the club and the players, but that support has to be ignited by a display on the pitch that stirs the blood. It is a symbiotic relationship. The one thing I would like some help on is Smudge's recent articles. His recent articles (I find) are unrepresentative of the conversations I have around the ground and the sentiment on here would seem to suggest a growing dissatisfaction with TP. The display at Newcastle seemed (on stream) as bereft of attacking intent as usual yet his summation was that we were unlucky. I guess my question is this; what is the genuine sentiment on the street at the moment? Let's accept that people on here are in diametric camps, but is this the feeling in S-o-T? This site and every other Saturday are my only links, so perhaps these are not representative of the every day fan? Just really wondered what other posters were finding around the city, and in their little enclaves on a match day? Are we in fact over-reacting on here, under-reacting or just spouting a load of emotional bollocks every chance we get? Would be genuinely interested to know people's opinions. Were we unlucky at Newcastle, yes to concede late on but was it unlucky. No it wasnt it was negative tactics and rank bad defending at the end. All of which the master defensive coach is responsible for. |
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Mar 13, 2013 17:11:46 GMT
The only reason, I feel, there is not more protest against Pulis is that people have become resigned to how we play, the teams he picks, the after-match interviews he gives - it is just Pulisball in all its "gory" (L missed deliberately) and we simply have to put up with. Somehow the rank and file have been conditioned to believing it is a necessary evil to being in the Premier League, that only Tony Pulis and his negative mindset can keep us up. Well, look to South Wales to see the alternative way of mixing it with the big boys, or even down the road to Smethwick, to Saturday's opponents. It does not have to be like this. Maybe I am of a different mindset due to my isolation on a tiny island in the Mid-Atlantic now. I see every single game on my own in my living room (the wife usually falls asleep in front of Stoke games - she is a good judge!), so my only feedback is via this site, the internet and family and mates back home I keep in touch with. The performance at Newcastle was better than of late, which is not hard, but we still barely created a chance worthy of its name, we still played to avoid defeat, we still set up with a team and formation in the classic Pulisball away game traditions, we still lost........change is needed as to continue to do the same and expect different results is the very definition of lunacy. Marvellous post |
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 13, 2013 17:14:44 GMT
Isn't it just his opinion? Not sure he is or should be the mouthpiece of supporters.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Mar 13, 2013 17:27:53 GMT
I think what 99% of supporters want is for us to go back to what we do best with our best players and we've not done anything remotely like what we do best for 2 years nearly.
It's positive football that we want to see which creates chances and thus entertainment (note this doesn't mean 'passing' football)
If we went back to playing like we did from March-May 2011 how many of us would complain?
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Post by owdestokie on Mar 13, 2013 18:06:31 GMT
I think what 99% of supporters want is for us to go back to what we do best with our best players and we've not done anything remotely like what we do best for 2 years nearly.
It's positive football that we want to see which creates chances and thus entertainment (note this doesn't mean 'passing' football)
If we went back to playing like we did from March-May 2011 how many of us would complain?
I'll go with that
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Post by Danstoke82 on Mar 13, 2013 18:53:09 GMT
I think what 99% of supporters want is for us to go back to what we do best with our best players and we've not done anything remotely like what we do best for 2 years nearly. It's positive football that we want to see which creates chances and thus entertainment (note this doesn't mean 'passing' football) If we went back to playing like we did from March-May 2011 how many of us would complain? I'll go with that Id love that. But in all seriousness we know it wont happen. With Pennant frozen out and KJ seemingly dropped and another possible outgoing it is clear that Pulis has other ideas. |
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 13, 2013 19:05:55 GMT
Six points Mark?
We'd be on 39 and you'd have done the dirty deed under false pretenses and he's won the employment tribunal hands down
Ref Smudge & all those big words Dixie, I think they are a little on the half full side to me but the seniment is right, priority no1 is to secure pl status.
Then we can judge the season overall. Do we need to wait till the end of the season to judge it, we all know we will probably win another 2 games if were lucky, and stay up doing that. That will mean some pretty disastrous statistics heading our way in relation to our team over the last 14 or so months and no other manager would dare try to survive with that record. [/color]
Fair comment JSU, but please don't apply to be Peter Coates' motivational advisor:
"Yes Tone, you heard it right in the Mirror, I am going to sack you at the end of the season but just pop out and win at least a couple more games and save our PL bacon for me before I do, eh? There's a good chap."
Yes, you're right, a great many individual judgements have been made by now and no, another two wins won't massively affect those (or the stats) overall in the grand scheme of things you'd think.
(Which is where I think Homzy has it wrong the other day with his "vast majority" flooding back into the pro camp with a couple of wins.)
I guess it's the same as the cries to: put those issues to one side (but don't forget them)
and get behind the team until we're over the line.
Then voice / act upon the judgements already passed. |
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Post by fortressbritannia on Mar 13, 2013 19:18:59 GMT
I think what 99% of supporters want is for us to go back to what we do best with our best players and we've not done anything remotely like what we do best for 2 years nearly. It's positive football that we want to see which creates chances and thus entertainment (note this doesn't mean 'passing' football) If we went back to playing like we did from March-May 2011 how many of us would complain? I'll go with that Id love that. But in all seriousness we know it wont happen. With Pennant frozen out and KJ seemingly dropped and another possible outgoing it is clear that Pulis has other ideas. But we can all dream, I'd take Kightly on the wing for the rest of the season if it meant KJ upfront with Walters in behind. |
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Post by thevoid on Mar 13, 2013 22:59:40 GMT
A lot of my mates, and Stokies at work, who were previously pro-TP are now starting to agree with me that change is needed, but only in the Summer (fair enough). I'm surprised it's taken some of them this long to change heart, but some aren't exactly regular attendees, which could explain a lot.
I haven't spoken to Ian's barber yet, as I'm not sure I want him near me if he's holding sharp objects ;D
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Post by bunnyscfc on Mar 13, 2013 23:11:03 GMT
Isn't it just his opinion? Not sure he is or should be the mouthpiece of supporters. When or where has he said that's what he is wezza? |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 14, 2013 2:24:28 GMT
See I usually agree with Smudge and I see what he is getting at BUT if we don't voice our disapproval now by either vocally disapproving of Pulis and not renewing the season tickets then it will be too late. We know Coates and Pulis have a rare chairman / manager relationship and we know Coates will only persuade Pulis in leaving ( he will never leave from him own accord) if its the very last option. So we need to make sure Coates and the board get the message and keep getting the message.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 14, 2013 12:14:26 GMT
I get the feeling the manager chairman special relationship isn't quite as solid as it used to be. Apart from the comment abiout the finance of the Crouch deal I can't rationalise that it's just a hunch.
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