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Post by alster on Mar 12, 2013 14:18:40 GMT
Alex Ferguson- NO- too old Mancini- NO- Too dull. AVB- Yes Benitez- NO- Far too dull Rodgers- Yes Moyes- NO- Too conservative/negative Wenger- Yes- but too inflexible in the opposite of Pulis. Laudrup- Yes Clarke- Yes- Only just the bloke bores me to tears. Jol- Yes O'Neill- YES- was once massive yes but not sure it'd be a big enough change for me now. Hughton- Yes- only just I'm not a huge fan. Pochetino- NO- I don't much care for Italian cheese. Allardyce- GOD NO Redknapp- NO- Too old for a massive renovation job. Martinez- YES, YES and YES again. Lambert- YES. Pardew- YES. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Potters&thread=210145&page=1#ixzz2NKnb8sW2
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Post by johnbutlershair on Mar 12, 2013 14:28:45 GMT
Alex Ferguson- Never going to happen Mancini- Never going to happen AVB- Never going to happen Benitez- Yes but unrealistic Rodgers- Never going to happen Moyes- Yes but he said he wants to manage in Germany so I think he'll end up there Wenger- Never going to happen Laudrup- Yes but again unrealistic Clarke- Yes as long as we can have Brunt as well Jol- Yes O'Neill- YES Hughton- Yes Pochetino- don't know enough about him yet Allardyce- Yes Redknapp- Yes but I'd worry about our finances Martinez- Yes Lambert- Yes. Pardew- Yes
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Post by alster on Mar 12, 2013 14:29:36 GMT
I agree it a big job and not minor tinkering, the whole mindset of the way we approach a game of football needs changing. Thats why I'd not be in favour of a Moyes or an Allardyce.I'd be over the moon with Martinez and fairly happy with Adkins. The change when if it comes has got to be worthwhile, recognisable and positive otherwise its just not worth making. I understand the point mate but just how difficult a job would Martinez have in bringing his philosophy to Stoke? He'd inherit a bunch of players that would struggle (and I'm being kind to them here) to play HIS game and it would need a massive 'shift' in terms of players out/players in. Given that many of our players are on long contracts and unlikely to go anywhere to accommodate new signings by Martinez, wouldn't he have a pretty huge job on his hands in getting us to play his way as well as getting enough points to survive the changes? I'm not saying it couldn't happen if he was given enough time but he'd have his work cut out and I'm not sure we'd come through the changes and still be in the Premier League. In fact, I'm fairly confident we wouldn't. I really don't think our players are that technically poor that they could not play a more positive passing game (some are obviously, Whitehead,Wilko). I think the mindset would be more difficult to change than any technical aspect, its like getting somebody to believe the exact polar opposite to that which they've had rammed down their throats for years in some instances. It would require a good transfer window granted but we really need one of those whatever happens.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 12, 2013 14:39:10 GMT
I understand the point mate but just how difficult a job would Martinez have in bringing his philosophy to Stoke? He'd inherit a bunch of players that would struggle (and I'm being kind to them here) to play HIS game and it would need a massive 'shift' in terms of players out/players in. Given that many of our players are on long contracts and unlikely to go anywhere to accommodate new signings by Martinez, wouldn't he have a pretty huge job on his hands in getting us to play his way as well as getting enough points to survive the changes? I'm not saying it couldn't happen if he was given enough time but he'd have his work cut out and I'm not sure we'd come through the changes and still be in the Premier League. In fact, I'm fairly confident we wouldn't. I really don't think our players are that technically poor that they could not play a more positive passing game (some are obviously, Whitehead,Wilko). I think the mindset would be more difficult to change than any technical aspect, its like getting somebody to believe the exact polar opposite to that which they've had rammed down their throats for years in some instances. It would require a good transfer window granted but we really need one of those whatever happens. We do mate but I don't share your confidence in the technical abilities of most of our players, even if I readily accept that they have been 'drilled' in the Pulis way. Most of them can't pass the ball a couple of feet to their own player, put a decent cross in or see a cutting through ball. If they COULD, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because we'd be twice as good as we are.
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Post by jstoke7 on Mar 12, 2013 14:40:24 GMT
I understand the point mate but just how difficult a job would Martinez have in bringing his philosophy to Stoke? He'd inherit a bunch of players that would struggle (and I'm being kind to them here) to play HIS game and it would need a massive 'shift' in terms of players out/players in. Given that many of our players are on long contracts and unlikely to go anywhere to accommodate new signings by Martinez, wouldn't he have a pretty huge job on his hands in getting us to play his way as well as getting enough points to survive the changes? I'm not saying it couldn't happen if he was given enough time but he'd have his work cut out and I'm not sure we'd come through the changes and still be in the Premier League. In fact, I'm fairly confident we wouldn't. I really don't think our players are that technically poor that they could not play a more positive passing game (some are obviously, Whitehead,Wilko). I think the mindset would be more difficult to change than any technical aspect, its like getting somebody to believe the exact polar opposite to that which they've had rammed down their throats for years in some instances. It would require a good transfer window granted but we really need one of those whatever happens. +1. Of course we could play a passing game, it's what EVERY single one of our players did before they came to Stoke. Like Alster says, a few changes would be needed, but no radical shift IMO. Even Whitehead looked like a decent passer and kept the ball relatively neatly when he was at Sunderland.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 12, 2013 14:45:28 GMT
I am consistently told that Whelan is the best passer of a ball on Stoke's books.
I don't think I need to say a single word more on just how shite our players are at passing a football.
As for Whitehead at Sunderland.....Behave. ;D
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Post by alster on Mar 12, 2013 15:07:11 GMT
I am consistently told that Whelan is the best passer of a ball on Stoke's books. I don't think I need to say a single word more on just how shite our players are at passing a football. As for Whitehead at Sunderland.....Behave. ;D Take away Tony Pulis and get our players finding space to recieve the ball rather than being pre occupied by being where he demands them to be on his pitch/chessboard where only he is allowed to move the pieces and I could pretty much guarantee that every player on our books would become a better passer. The play is so predictable because players are not allowed any instinctive movement. He's unable to allow his players any freedom or trust their decision making. That being the case whats the point in shelling out muti million pound transfer fees and wages if all you want is footballing zombies.
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Post by jstoke7 on Mar 12, 2013 15:29:16 GMT
I am consistently told that Whelan is the best passer of a ball on Stoke's books. I don't think I need to say a single word more on just how shite our players are at passing a football. As for Whitehead at Sunderland.....Behave. ;D I think Whelan is a good passer of the ball, limited speed and dribbling wise, but I think he is a good passer. Doesn't help when you don't have options around you and clearly aren't working on that kind of stuff on the training ground.
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Post by jstoke7 on Mar 12, 2013 15:29:46 GMT
I am consistently told that Whelan is the best passer of a ball on Stoke's books. I don't think I need to say a single word more on just how shite our players are at passing a football. As for Whitehead at Sunderland.....Behave. ;D Take away Tony Pulis and get our players finding space to recieve the ball rather than being pre occupied by being where he demands them to be on his pitch/chessboard where only he is allowed to move the pieces and I could pretty much guarantee that every player on our books would become a better passer. The play is so predictable because players are not allowed any instinctive movement. He's unable to allow his players any freedom or trust their decision making. That being the case whats the point in shelling out muti million pound transfer fees and wages if all you want is footballing zombies. Spot on.
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 12, 2013 15:34:43 GMT
Alex Ferguson- I'm not sure his heart would be in managing Stoke at 93 or whatever he is - so no Roberto Mancini- No good could ever come of this coiffured ponce spending a lot of time in Trent Vale AVB- Yes, as long as I don't ever have to listen his interminable press conference mumblings. A self loving tool. Benitez- Yes but be prepared for lots more players playing out of position and not being dropped, despite being shit Rodgers- Not a chance. An Uber Cunt - See above Moyes- Yes Wenger- Yes for one day and so I can throw him in the incinerator Laudrup- Yeah I suppose, I'd like to see one more year of success though Clarke - Yeah I suppose but I'd be about as excited as a trip to the Vasectomists Jol- Not a chance, had my fill of portly Dutch fuckwits O'Neill- Yes Hughton- Yes but like Clarke would get more excitement by going to the ball snippers Pochetino- Wouldn't know who he was if he jizzed in my face Allardyce- It would be like swapping Meningitis for Hepatitis Redknapp- We're owned by bookies so may as well be managed by one. I'd check my pockets every time I left the ground mind Martinez- Yeah I like him although I'd like him to start work before February every season Lambert- Not a chance. A disloyal fraud beautifully being exposed Pardew- Slimy fucker who looks like he thinks everything he does is 'like making love to a beautiful lady'. No. Ever thought of starting your own 'CV screening service' sheik.....? ;D ;D
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 12, 2013 17:20:39 GMT
I've heard it all now. The reasons our players can't find their own men from 3 or 4 yards away is the shite system we play and lack of movement etc?????????
The comments about our 'system may be true but how does that mean one man can't find his mate a few yards away?
AND THEY CAN'T AND DON'T.
Our passing is fucking abysmal. It's not HELPED by our tactics but it's still a disgrace to professional footballers and you're giving them a very, very soft excuse.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Mar 12, 2013 17:29:45 GMT
Ferguson - Yes Mancini - Yes AVB - Yes Rogers - NO Moyes - Yes Benitez - Yes Laurdrup - Yes Clarke - Yes Wenger - No Jol - No O'Neill - No Houghton - Yes Ponchetino - Unsure Alladyce - No Redknapp - Yes Martinez BIG FAT NO, OVER-HYPED. Lambert - No Pardew - No
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 17:43:09 GMT
I've heard it all now. The reasons our players can't find their own men from 3 or 4 yards away is the shite system we play and lack of movement etc????????? The comments about our 'system may be true but how does that mean one man can't find his mate a few yards away? AND THEY CAN'T AND DON'T. Our passing is fucking abysmal. It's not HELPED by our tactics but it's still a disgrace to professional footballers and you're giving them a very, very soft excuse. Do you think they made professional footballers and come from some of the best academies by not being able to pass a ball? Think about it. It's very easy to lose any sharpness and the quality of your touch if any form of football is drilled out of you day in day out and replaced with shape and set pieces.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 12, 2013 17:49:43 GMT
I've heard it all now. The reasons our players can't find their own men from 3 or 4 yards away is the shite system we play and lack of movement etc????????? The comments about our 'system may be true but how does that mean one man can't find his mate a few yards away? AND THEY CAN'T AND DON'T. Our passing is fucking abysmal. It's not HELPED by our tactics but it's still a disgrace to professional footballers and you're giving them a very, very soft excuse. Do you think they made professional footballers and come from some of the best academies by not being able to pass a ball? Think about it. It's very easy to lose any sharpness and the quality of your touch if any form of football is drilled out of you day in day out and replaced with shape and set pieces. STILL doesn't explain why, within ANY system, they can't find their own men a few feet away....and they clearly can't. I'm not talking silky football skills, creative movement or incisive 40 yard balls. I'm talking about the very basics of passing a ball from one player to another and our system doesn't prevent THAT. Our players try to do it every single game and fail miserably, not because of the system we play, but because they are wank at passing a football. If you believe they were all icons of the passing game at their previous clubs then that's up to you...........I don't. BTW: The player many believe is our BEST passer was playing in the Championship. Over the past 5 years, I've come to see why that was. Actually, I saw it in the first year but I've given him 5 years to prove me wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 17:52:18 GMT
Only manager I wouldn't have is O'Neill as he's just another footballing dinosaur dragging a team whose spent a lot of money further down.
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Post by alster on Mar 12, 2013 17:59:07 GMT
I've heard it all now. The reasons our players can't find their own men from 3 or 4 yards away is the shite system we play and lack of movement etc????????? The comments about our 'system may be true but how does that mean one man can't find his mate a few yards away? AND THEY CAN'T AND DON'T. Our passing is fucking abysmal. It's not HELPED by our tactics but it's still a disgrace to professional footballers and you're giving them a very, very soft excuse. OK I'll take a stab at that too. Pulis' excuse for football relies mainly on gross motor skills ie you twat it you head it etc. These are notoriously resilient responses. Skills ie control and passing etc are fine motor skills, they are less resilient and breakdown easily under pressure. To keep breakdowns to a minimum they must be rehearsed, practiced used continuously. Not everybody no matter how hard they train or practice will become acomplished at them. Its to do with your timing, co-ordination, perception etc. Thats why its a skilled game and not everybody's Messi. And thats the whole problem with Tony Pulis he strips the game down into its most basic components and trys to turn it into something that anybody can do if they just work hard enough. Run faster, run further, twat it harder etc. Working on percentages it gets results to a certain degree but as a spectacle its totally and utterly wank.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 12, 2013 18:02:26 GMT
I agree with the last sentence alster. The rest is the kind of coaching manual crap that makes me want to throw 99% of football coaches on a bonfire together with their manuals.
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Post by alster on Mar 12, 2013 18:07:32 GMT
I agree with the last sentence alster. The rest is the kind of coaching manual crap that makes me want to throw 99% of football coaches on a bonfire together with their manuals. Thats fine Doz throw them all on a bonfire but at least explain why you're doing it.
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Post by alster on Mar 12, 2013 18:18:38 GMT
I agree with the last sentence alster. The rest is the kind of coaching manual crap that makes me want to throw 99% of football coaches on a bonfire together with their manuals. Its actually a rather backhanded compliment to Pulis and explains that a lot of his thinking can be backed up with provable scientific evidence. Knowing it should help me understand his methods and his decisions but it doesn't because its supposed to be a skilled and beautiful game that lifts me from the daily grind. I could spend Saturday afternoons watching some bloke dig a hole (think I already do to be honest) he might work really hard and do a really good job but it just doesn't do it for me.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 12, 2013 18:24:03 GMT
I agree with the last sentence alster. The rest is the kind of coaching manual crap that makes me want to throw 99% of football coaches on a bonfire together with their manuals. Thats fine Doz throw them all on a bonfire but at least explain why you're doing it. I'm a very simple fella alster and, at heart I think of young kids playing football in it's purest form. Watch them early enough and you'll see running, dribbling, passing and freedom of expression that you almost NEVER see in any professional team. Then the most 'talented' get picked up by professional clubs and all 'natural' talent gets buried in tactical awareness, physical attributes and they are (IMO) coached to death by people who know only the 'professional' approach. I do understand that this is the way it has to be because that's the world of professional football but it doesn't sit easily with me (though I have to accept it). All of this probably looks (to you) to be at odds with my defence of Pulis but I'm simply accepting that's the world I live in. In an ideal world, my greatest joy is in watching kids play football for the absolute joy of the game itself. That is until some 'so called' professional coach gets hold of them.
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Post by alster on Mar 12, 2013 18:37:02 GMT
Thats fine Doz throw them all on a bonfire but at least explain why you're doing it. I'm a very simple fella alster and, at heart I think of young kids playing football in it's purest form. Watch them early enough and you'll see running, dribbling, passing and freedom of expression that you almost NEVER see in any professional team. Then the most 'talented' get picked up by professional clubs and all 'natural' talent gets buried in tactical awareness, physical attributes and they are (IMO) coached to death by people who know only the 'professional' approach. I do understand that this is the way it has to be because that's the world of professional football but it doesn't sit easily with me (though I have to accept it). All of this probably looks (to you) to be at odds with my defence of Pulis but I'm simply accepting that's the world I live in. In an ideal world, my greatest joy is in watching kids play football for the absolute joy of the game itself. That is until some 'so called' professional coach gets hold of them. Don't even get me started on coaching of kids the way we do things in this country is a pet hate of mine. Far too competetive and results orientated not enough concentration on developing skills and technical prowess. This leads to a glut of athletic talentless players making it onto the books at professional clubs. Would the likes of Modric, Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, even have made it through our system?
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Post by jstoke7 on Mar 12, 2013 19:29:59 GMT
I'm a very simple fella alster and, at heart I think of young kids playing football in it's purest form. Watch them early enough and you'll see running, dribbling, passing and freedom of expression that you almost NEVER see in any professional team. Then the most 'talented' get picked up by professional clubs and all 'natural' talent gets buried in tactical awareness, physical attributes and they are (IMO) coached to death by people who know only the 'professional' approach. I do understand that this is the way it has to be because that's the world of professional football but it doesn't sit easily with me (though I have to accept it). All of this probably looks (to you) to be at odds with my defence of Pulis but I'm simply accepting that's the world I live in. In an ideal world, my greatest joy is in watching kids play football for the absolute joy of the game itself. That is until some 'so called' professional coach gets hold of them. Don't even get me started on coaching of kids the way we do things in this country is a pet hate of mine. Far too competetive and results orientated not enough concentration on developing skills and technical prowess. This leads to a glut of athletic talentless players making it onto the books at professional clubs. Would the likes of Modric, Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, even have made it through our system? They would have been too 'lightweight'. ;D
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Post by owdestokie on Mar 12, 2013 19:37:06 GMT
Dozy.....You are wasting good time and energy by trying to have a sensible debate with boy soldiers of the witch finder general (s)
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 12, 2013 19:41:45 GMT
Alex Ferguson- Yes yes yes and yes Roberto Mancini- No he's had millions at his disposal but can't maintain sustained challenge AVB- No don't know why he just gets on my tits Benitez- Yes Rodgers- No he has inherited a good side and benefiting from that Moyes- Yes Wenger- No just fucking no Laudrup- Yes Clarke- No his nose is massive int it? Jol- Yes despite the Dutch connection O'Neill- No needs too much money Hughton- No Pochetino- No not enough track record in PL Allardyce- No same as TP Redknapp- No needs too much money although a great motivator Martinez- Yes Lambert- No done nothing really Pardew- no he's just a self opinionated twat
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millsey
Academy Starlet
love life love stoke city
Posts: 147
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Post by millsey on Mar 12, 2013 20:28:20 GMT
pardew,lambert ,pochetino,wenger no thanks ,i say moyes or benitez favourite for me snap ya hand off
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 13, 2013 7:43:24 GMT
I'm a very simple fella alster and, at heart I think of young kids playing football in it's purest form. Watch them early enough and you'll see running, dribbling, passing and freedom of expression that you almost NEVER see in any professional team. Then the most 'talented' get picked up by professional clubs and all 'natural' talent gets buried in tactical awareness, physical attributes and they are (IMO) coached to death by people who know only the 'professional' approach. I do understand that this is the way it has to be because that's the world of professional football but it doesn't sit easily with me (though I have to accept it). All of this probably looks (to you) to be at odds with my defence of Pulis but I'm simply accepting that's the world I live in. In an ideal world, my greatest joy is in watching kids play football for the absolute joy of the game itself. That is until some 'so called' professional coach gets hold of them. Don't even get me started on coaching of kids the way we do things in this country is a pet hate of mine. Far too competetive and results orientated not enough concentration on developing skills and technical prowess. This leads to a glut of athletic talentless players making it onto the books at professional clubs. Would the likes of Modric, Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, even have made it through our system? Mate, we actually agree on far more than we disagree on.
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