Is this a genuine turning point?

[Deleted]

That is to say, will the manager turning the season around stave things off?

There have been a couple of times in the past where TP has seen the spectre of fan discontent, made changes a lot of fans have been calling for and things have gone swimmingly from that point. He seemed to backed down over Hoefkens and we went on to have an excellent back four that season. Whether or not you believed Hudson's dribblings about how his protest was responsible for Lee Hendrie (I don't believe it was), it did come at a time when performances in the league weren't going well.

Then there was the drubbing at West Ham two years ago that proved the catalysts for our great run at the end of that season to the cup final.

Sometimes TP does pull it out of the bag when his back's against the wall.

My question is this: if that happens this time, will it be enough to get those fans who've lost faith in him back onside?

Personally I think I'm too far gone now.

[The Occasional Man]

Probably reached the breaking point .. .. however that said all people have been calling for is round pegs in round hole, form players played, out of form players dropped and players given the license to play!

It really isn't much too be asking for!

[BristolMick]

I refer you to Trouserdogs post that predicted what is going to happen before every season starts. It's Groundhog Day!

Is this what we want? More and more of the same every season. Mainly horrendous football interspersed with a few decent games or would we prefer a completely fresh approach? I know what I want and it definitely ain't more of the same!

BM

[Vestan Pance]

My opinion has always been the same; that Pulisball (and it's acceptance thereof) is completely results orientated. If we were to miraculously put all this behind us and win another 6 games, it will all go away for a lot of people, because we are winning again and that is the fickle nature of football, as well as the nature of people.

My feelings are more deep rooted; i've never forgiven him from his first tenure; i see no groundbreaking steps with this manager, i see no development of the youth team, or god forbid the purchase of a balanced squad capable of altering things during the course of the game. He'll never speak to the fans, or listen to their need not to win every game, but to be entertained occasionally with the kind of football it would be nice to watch given the elevated status in which we play. It'll be the same dreary shit year in year out unitl we fall into the same morass that befell Bolton & Blackburn. And we are much, much worse to watch that those two ever were.

No way this ends well, IMHO.

[dexter97]

Mar 6, 2013 8:45:29 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

My question is this: if that happens this time, will it be enough to get those fans who've lost faith in him back onside?

It's possible. Football fans are fickle fuckers!

With no FA Cup run to get excited about though, it needs to be a turnaround of epic proportions.

[Deleted]

He may very well turn results around, although I think there will only be more of the same entertainment wise.

[jamodinho]

Mar 6, 2013 8:55:34 GMT BristolMick said:

I refer you to Trouserdogs post that predicted what is going to happen before every season starts. It's Groundhog Day!

Is this what we want? More and more of the same every season. Mainly horrendous football interspersed with a few decent games or would we prefer a completely fresh approach? I know what I want and it definitely ain't more of the same!

BM

Has anyone got a link to this?

[Deleted]

We'll lose on Sunday and it will probably go up another notch.

It would take something miraculous to get me back on board.

Even if we strung a few performances and results together I'd still question the long term direction of the club under Pulis. His signings over the past couple of Seasons have been dire.

[foster]

I think it's too far gone.

Even if we go on a good run, as soon as we have one bad game or performance like those of previous weeks the mood will return to boiling point.

Most fans have gone past the point of no return whereby although they may be appeased temporarily, they will have an inherent disdain and immediate adverse reaction to shit football. Once you've lost faith in your manager it's almost impossible to regain.

The fact that none of the recurring concerns are being addressed (Square pegs, no FBs, poor signings, wasted money, favouritism, no plan B) only adds to the fire.

Tone will literally have to get us a monumental run of good results to get himself out of this mess, though more than likely he'll have to take the brunt of the fans frustration from now until the end of the season and hope that he's undeservedly backed by Coates again.

It seems that in attempting to follow a recipe for success, that Tone's inadvertently opened up a can of worms.

[okeydokeystokie2]

I think there will be changes in the summer, Rob. Both TP and Kempy have said they're not happy with the "balance" of the squad.

The big question is will TP be the man entrusted to make those changes.

He has delivered exciting football before, but our forward line is desperately missing a fit, in form Etherington, Pennant and of course the sheer enteratinment and threat Ricardo Fuller brought. Liam Lawrence's running and passing would make us more entertaining and effective right now.

I still trust his judgement on players, and I'm hoping that there is more to come from Kightly and Shea. I think he deserves the opportunity to sort out the squad in the summer.

I don't see a sudden shift on Sunday. I think we may be in for a defensive 4-5-1 and I'm sure we'd all take a point up there now. At some point, I think he may have to try Adam in centre mid with N'Zonzi, which will mean Jon Walters will have to play in the hole, which means Matty/Shea on the left and Kightly or (heaven forbid the reaction to this - Whitehead/Shotton or Whelan) on the right of midfield.

The double whammy of Matty's fitness and form and Pennant blowing it seem to have impacted on the make up the team.

[nik80]

Mar 6, 2013 8:45:29 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

That is to say, will the manager turning the season around stave things off?

There have been a couple of times in the past where TP has seen the spectre of fan discontent, made changes a lot of fans have been calling for and things have gone swimmingly from that point. He seemed to backed down over Hoefkens and we went on to have an excellent back four that season. Whether or not you believed Hudson's dribblings about how his protest was responsible for Lee Hendrie (I don't believe it was), it did come at a time when performances in the league weren't going well.

Then there was the drubbing at West Ham two years ago that proved the catalysts for our great run at the end of that season to the cup final.

Sometimes TP does pull it out of the bag when his back's against the wall.

My question is this: if that happens this time, will it be enough to get those fans who've lost faith in him back onside?

Personally I think I'm too far gone now.

If Tony Pulis can pull some good performances out of the bag, ones which result in us winning a three games or so, I'm happy for him to stay and sort his own mess out. Personally, I'd rather that than the upheaval of changing manager.

Do I think he's capable of doing this? Well that's another story.

Perhaps TP should heed his own advice about not getting blas'e, he probably does perform better when his back is nailed to the wall, maybe sitting tenth for so long this season, regardless of how poor we've largely been hasn't helped his own cause.

Do we really want to persist with a manager who only seems to operate well when the world and its dog detests us?

It's okay when it's working, it's pitiful and frustrating when it stops.

[Vestan Pance]

Mar 6, 2013 9:30:10 GMT okeydokeystokie2 said:

I think there will be changes in the summer, Rob. Both TP and Kempy have said they're not happy with the "balance" of the squad.

The big question is will TP be the man entrusted to make those changes.

He has delivered exciting football before, but our forward line is desperately missing a fit, in form Etherington, Pennant and of course the sheer enteratinment and threat Ricardo Fuller brought. Liam Lawrence's running and passing would make us more entertaining and effective right now.

I still trust his judgement on players, and I'm hoping that there is more to come from Kightly and Shea. I think he deserves the opportunity to sort out the squad in the summer.

I don't see a sudden shift on Sunday. I think we may be in for a defensive 4-5-1 and I'm sure we'd all take a point up there now. At some point, I think he may have to try Adam in centre mid with N'Zonzi, which will mean Jon Walters will have to play in the hole, which means Matty/Shea on the left and Kightly or (heaven forbid the reaction to this - Whitehead/Shotton or Whelan) on the right of midfield.

The double whammy of Matty's fitness and form and Pennant blowing it seem to have impacted on the make up the team.

Not really wanting to add to this, it's just nice to see someone with contrasting opinions making their case for Pulis without the usual bluster, bombasity and bollocks.

Fair play mate.

[mcf]

Will anything ever me enough for some of you fuckers?

Can't believe the shit I read sometimes.

Who really would give a fuck about stubborn pricks who have 'lost the faith'????

If things improved then how earth could it have gone too far???

[Deleted]

Mar 6, 2013 9:41:24 GMT mcf said:

Will anything ever me enough for some of you fuckers?

Can't believe the shit I read sometimes.

Who really would give a fuck about stubborn pricks who have 'lost the faith'????

If things improved then how earth could it have gone too far???

Well, now you put it that way.....

[scfc75]

Mar 6, 2013 9:41:24 GMT mcf said:

Will anything ever me enough for some of you fuckers?

Can't believe the shit I read sometimes.

Who really would give a fuck about stubborn pricks who have 'lost the faith'????

If things improved then how earth could it have gone too far???

Because they may only improve temporarily. If we have a decent run-in, there will be a lot of doubt still over the long-term viability of any recovery. Given that our transfer activities have largely been poor in the last 3 or 4 windows, any mini-upturn in how we play for the next 10 games might not be enough to convince a lot of fans who have gradually lost faith in the last 18 months that he has genuinely turned a corner.

[okeydokeystokie2]

Fair play to you too, and for the increasing number who are prepared to discuss these problems in a civilised way. It matters to us all.

Some of this is down to TP: he's clearly still to work out how to get the best out of Adam, but I don't think he's had a lot of luck with Wilson and Etherington's injury problems, and the signings of Kightly and Palacios.

Personally I think his stance on JP was right, but that is beyond his control too. With hindsight given Kightly's form, maybe he should have given Pennant more chances eventhough it sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of them.

[Deleted]

As for the Pennant situation; I'm pretty sure we can all understand TP's stance on it. In fact, if we were doing okay without him then I'd fully support his decision.

The problem is, the wide areas are a genuine problem right now, even acknowledged by Pulis himself.

Whilst we've got Pennant on the books and we're paying him a shed load of cash, we may as well utilise him if we need him. We could still actively look to move him on in the Summer if we wanted but right now he could make a difference.

[fortressbritannia]

If he does pull it out the bag and I'm not so sure that he will this time (I don't think he'll drop Crouch and play Walters and Jones upfront). It'll silence the critics if he does but people will just sit there sharpening their knives waiting for a couple of bad results and they'll be out in full force.

For me TP has 10 games to convince me that he deserves another season, if he does I'd give him £8m and any other funds been raised through players out however I think TP will sell Jones in the summer and keep the totally past it Crouch in which case I will be fuming.

[sheikhmomo]

Results are EVERYTHING.

[okeydokeystokie2]

WD, this Pennant thing is a difficult situation. If there was a managerial mistake, it was when he came back in January. Kemp made the right noises about the slate being clean etc.

Am I right in thinking that JP blew it again though by turning up late for training?

He is clearly a self-destructive character and now that TP has drawn the line in the sand which has been crossed yet again, it looks like a huge back down for him to put him back in.

The bottom line is, whether Tony has managed this rightly or wrongly, the person who has let the owners, the management team, his team mates and the supporters down is Jermaine Pennant.

[RAF]

I read somewhere this week on one of the numerous threads by someone who backs TP to the hilt that he accidentally gets things right , and accidentally comes across a winning formula only to mess around with it.
His ridiculous tinkering of Huth at right back, his unfathomable decision to play Wilson at centre half and leave Cameron on the bench after claiming Wilson to be one of the best left backs in the league and we have missed him there are just two examples of why people are left scratching their heads in amazement.
We know we can play well away, we saw it this season away at Chelsea and Man Utd, we lost both but most people were happy with the way we had a go. We also know we can play well at home, Liverpool being a prime example.
Is it a turning point? I don't think so , TP's job rests on one man and I think that man thinks he has plenty of credit left in the bank.
I would love to see TP have a go at Newcastle like the two games I have mentioned above.
Will he? I doubt it, he'll probably be digging his heels in and parking the bus, hoping something drops for us.
That said a few results for us, turgid or not should stem some of the frustration, although I'm not sure whether results over style will have people clamouring for him to be given a contract extension at the end of the season.
Again it's just another season that could have been so much better, you know like last seasons, but this year he has no Europe or extended cup runs to blame.

H

[magicmanfuller]

Mar 6, 2013 8:45:29 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

That is to say, will the manager turning the season around stave things off?

There have been a couple of times in the past where TP has seen the spectre of fan discontent, made changes a lot of fans have been calling for and things have gone swimmingly from that point. He seemed to backed down over Hoefkens and we went on to have an excellent back four that season. Whether or not you believed Hudson's dribblings about how his protest was responsible for Lee Hendrie (I don't believe it was), it did come at a time when performances in the league weren't going well.

Then there was the drubbing at West Ham two years ago that proved the catalysts for our great run at the end of that season to the cup final.

Sometimes TP does pull it out of the bag when his back's against the wall.

My question is this: if that happens this time, will it be enough to get those fans who've lost faith in him back onside?

Personally I think I'm too far gone now.

I can't see us getting a result on Saturday, so no. We will get the wins we need and stay up no doubt, so all will be rosy in the garden for Pulis.........

[okeydokeystokie2]

I agree with a lot of that RAF, and I was surprised when the noises coming from the club prior to the game that Wilson was going to replace Huth. I think Wilson is a decent footballer and OK at centre half, it's more that it leaves us unbalanced at left back again.

The Huth thing is another mystery. Is it all part of the "push on/evolution" theory? Was he trying to get us to play more football from the back by introducing Woodgate and Upson?

I think he is trying to change - maybe it's just that it is a pretty tough challenge to get it right.

[Deleted]

Mar 6, 2013 9:59:04 GMT okeydokeystokie2 said:

WD, this Pennant thing is a difficult situation. If there was a managerial mistake, it was when he came back in January. Kemp made the right noises about the slate being clean etc.

Am I right in thinking that JP blew it again though by turning up late for training?

He is clearly a self-destructive character and now that TP has drawn the line in the sand which has been crossed yet again, it looks like a huge back down for him to put him back in.

The bottom line is, whether Tony has managed this rightly or wrongly, the person who has let the owners, the management team, his team mates and the supporters down is Jermaine Pennant.

I agree pal, JP is his own worst enemy.

I think trust comes into it though. If we were to give him a game or two (now that we need him) we'd have to have a bit of trust in the others in the group to carry on, as usual. We can't expect them to all fall off the rails and start acting the way JP has, just because he was given a game

[magicmanfuller]

Mar 6, 2013 9:53:21 GMT sheikhmomo said:

Results are EVERYTHING.

There was me thinking football was about entertainment........

[FullerMagic]

I think we'll struggle to get more than 40/41points regardless - but the least I'd want to see is a willingness to change and a bit of intent.

If we play the season out turgidly, and in square peg mode, he's a Dead Man Walking.

[nik80]

Mar 6, 2013 9:59:04 GMT okeydokeystokie2 said:

WD, this Pennant thing is a difficult situation. If there was a managerial mistake, it was when he came back in January. Kemp made the right noises about the slate being clean etc.

Am I right in thinking that JP blew it again though by turning up late for training?

He is clearly a self-destructive character and now that TP has drawn the line in the sand which has been crossed yet again, it looks like a huge back down for him to put him back in.

The bottom line is, whether Tony has managed this rightly or wrongly, the person who has let the owners, the management team, his team mates and the supporters down is Jermaine Pennant.

I agree with most of this, although I would still love to see Pennant in contention because competition for places is healthy and no matter what, in my opinion, a club with resources like Stoke needs to play their best players at all times.

That said, Jermaine Pennant will never play for Stoke City again, whilst Pulis is managing the side.

Can we please stop speculating about his return and forget him as if he never returned from Wolves. He's finished.

[sheikhmomo]

Mar 6, 2013 10:15:54 GMT magicmanfuller said:

Mar 6, 2013 9:53:21 GMT sheikhmomo said:

Results are EVERYTHING.

There was me thinking football was about entertainment........

You've been misled. Making chances and generally being more entertaining than we are tends to lead to better results and it would be nice to see that but it is results that are everything.

[Vestan Pance]

Mar 6, 2013 9:53:21 GMT sheikhmomo said:

Results are EVERYTHING.

True.


On Ceefax.

[SCFC92]

I don't see me ever being back on side now, I have too many reservations that next season if he were to be here it would be the same old story, and the same old shite served up for £30 a pop!

It's time for our Tone to go!