|
|
Post by Smudge_SCFC on Feb 5, 2013 20:12:42 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 5, 2013 20:19:07 GMT
To summarise:
Don't have hissy fits when things aren't great and don't shoot your load when things are great.
This is where most sane supporters have been for a long time. Football has ups and downs. To allow your emotions to move with those ups and downs smacks of hysterical short termism.
You only have to read any other football forum to see that every club has these same sets of supporters.
Surely the middle ground is the best place to be?
People with a personal grievance will of course never take the middle ground, but if their arguments are fuelled by personal embarrassment from being so wrong in the past, then i'd rather not listen to their argument anyway.
This is the best time that many Stoke supporters have ever known. If people don't want to see that, that's up to them.
|
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Feb 5, 2013 20:21:32 GMT
Brilliant article and pretty much sums up how I feel. Very strange situation and not a particularly pleasant one. Then again, fans of Forest, Leeds, Coventry, Shef Weds.....even Stoke fans of 10 years ago.....would probably laugh at our "problems". |
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 5, 2013 20:22:39 GMT
Brilliant article and pretty much sums up how I feel. Very strange situation and not a particularly pleasant one. Then again, fans of Forest, Leeds, Coventry, Shef Weds.....even Stoke fans of 10 years ago.....would probably laugh at our "problems". Someone will mention Swansea within 3 minutes. |
|
|
|
Post by ChesterStokie on Feb 5, 2013 20:26:19 GMT
Yes this is all about finding the middle ground isn't it?
Just a pity that the one man who could make all the difference is not prepared to do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Feb 5, 2013 20:27:57 GMT
Brilliant article and pretty much sums up how I feel. Very strange situation and not a particularly pleasant one. Then again, fans of Forest, Leeds, Coventry, Shef Weds.....even Stoke fans of 10 years ago.....would probably laugh at our "problems". Someone will mention Swansea within 3 minutes. Did you see how I didn't mention Charlton eh? Oh fuck! |
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 5, 2013 20:29:31 GMT
It's an excellent article and sums up pretty much perfectly where I am.
Funnily enough I've just said similar on another thread because I'm getting pretty sick of being caught up in these disputes.
Tone deserves much credit and our loyalty but that doesn't mean I couldn't throttle him sometimes.
Sadly the camps are so divided that middle ground is a dirty term on here quite often.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 20:32:15 GMT
To summarise: Don't have hissy fits when things aren't great and don't shoot your load when things are great. This is where most sane supporters have been for a long time. Football has ups and downs. To allow your emotions to move with those ups and downs smacks of hysterical short termism. You only have to read any other football forum to see that every club has these same sets of supporters. Surely the middle ground is the best place to be? People with a personal grievance will of course never take the middle ground, but if their arguments are fuelled by personal embarrassment from being so wrong in the past, then i'd rather not listen to their argument anyway. This is the best time that many Stoke supporters have ever known. If people don't want to see that, that's up to them. Are you seriously counting yourself in the middle ground? |
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 5, 2013 20:32:50 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ST5-POTTER on Feb 5, 2013 20:35:56 GMT
Brilliant read and sums up how I feel too.
Splinters in arse, on the fence!!
|
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Feb 5, 2013 20:36:38 GMT
It's an excellent article and sums up pretty much perfectly where I am. Funnily enough I've just said similar on another thread because I'm getting pretty sick of being caught up in these disputes. Tone deserves much credit and our loyalty but that doesn't mean I couldn't throttle him sometimes. Sadly the camps are so divided that middle ground is a dirty term on here quite often. Maybe we could rename the middle ground? How about "the cage"??? |
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 5, 2013 20:36:54 GMT
To summarise: Don't have hissy fits when things aren't great and don't shoot your load when things are great. This is where most sane supporters have been for a long time. Football has ups and downs. To allow your emotions to move with those ups and downs smacks of hysterical short termism. You only have to read any other football forum to see that every club has these same sets of supporters. Surely the middle ground is the best place to be? People with a personal grievance will of course never take the middle ground, but if their arguments are fuelled by personal embarrassment from being so wrong in the past, then i'd rather not listen to their argument anyway. This is the best time that many Stoke supporters have ever known. If people don't want to see that, that's up to them. Are you seriously counting yourself in the middle ground? Yes. Whilst i've very rarely criticised Pulis, i've also very rarely got carried away. I like to stand a bit further back, then the ups and downs smooth out a little, and I don't get so emotional about everything. It's a part of supporting a football club that I accepted a long time ago. I'm not going to let Pulis bringing Dean Whitehead on for Steven N'Zonzi ruin my week. Using the same logic, I'm also not going to let a 3-1 win over Liverpool cause me to ascend into euphoric hysteria. I am however, extremely glad we're not playing Scunthorpe anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by stokie25 on Feb 5, 2013 20:37:34 GMT
Bang on the money mate! The best quotes of the article for me are: "This is different though. This is a collection of very good Stoke players turning out very poor football, and not by accident or lack of talent but by deliberate design. Our approach is to try and strangle the life out of every away game and then try to nick something, often without even really doing any attacking, towards the end. It’s an approach like that which has seen us win just one of our last 21 league away games and it does make me despair." and: "That so many fans do complain comes more from the depth of passion for the club, rather than a desire to find fault for the sake of it. Their concerns are almost entirely genuine ." Amen to that mate and the Angel on my shoulder will be brow beaten whilst the devil on my shoulder beats him for the immediate future  |
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 5, 2013 20:39:31 GMT
It's an excellent article and sums up pretty much perfectly where I am. Funnily enough I've just said similar on another thread because I'm getting pretty sick of being caught up in these disputes. Tone deserves much credit and our loyalty but that doesn't mean I couldn't throttle him sometimes. Sadly the camps are so divided that middle ground is a dirty term on here quite often. Maybe we could rename the middle ground? How about "the cage"??? Maybe so, Foxy. I think the term "Stokie" has a good ring to it though!  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 20:39:56 GMT
Are you seriously counting yourself in the middle ground? Yes. Whilst i've very rarely criticised Pulis, i've also very rarely got carried away. I like to stand a bit further back, then the ups and downs smooth out a little, and I don't get so emotional about everything. It's a part of supporting a football club that I accepted a long time ago. I'm not going to let Pulis bringing Dean Whitehead on for Steven N'Zonzi ruin my week. Using the same logic, I'm also not going to let a 3-1 win over Liverpool cause me to ascend into euphoric hysteria. I am however, extremely glad we're not playing Scunthorpe anymore. Bullshit. You don't accept even the most reasonable criticisms. Your 'away form is irrelevant' stance underlines that. |
|
|
|
Post by onionman on Feb 5, 2013 20:43:10 GMT
It's an excellent article and sums up pretty much perfectly where I am. Funnily enough I've just said similar on another thread because I'm getting pretty sick of being caught up in these disputes. Tone deserves much credit and our loyalty but that doesn't mean I couldn't throttle him sometimes. Sadly the camps are so divided that middle ground is a dirty term on here quite often. Maybe we could rename the middle ground? How about "the cage"??? Ah, but secretly love Pulis or secretly hate him, everyone wants to claim they're in the middle ground, don't they. Whereas nobody in the entire world wants to be in the cage*. *Except Dean Whitehead. |
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on Feb 5, 2013 20:46:30 GMT
pretty much sums up the forum and I agree the divide is not good for the club
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 5, 2013 20:46:42 GMT
Away form isn't irrelevant.
If anything, it's the achilles heel of many clubs, not just Stoke.
It isn't a case of not accepting the criticism. I just don't often see the point of it, especially when people criticise the same things that happen at loads of clubs all across the land.
I also struggle to take on board criticism, when much of it is coming from the people who proclaimed that Tony Pulis could never get us to where we are now, and who proclaim he will take Stoke City down almost every season, as soon as we have a bad run.
Short termism bores me. Stoke City are taking part in a marathon, not a sprint. We also joined the Marathon with lots of clubs already 15 miles ahead of us.
I'm always very wary that this wonderful period in our history could come to an end at any point, and when it does, I want to look back and feel that I enjoyed it as much as possible, taking the rough with the smooth.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 20:49:02 GMT
Away form isn't irrelevant. If anything, it's the achilles heel of many clubs, not just Stoke. It isn't a case of not accepting the criticism. I just don't often see the point of it, especially when people criticise the same things that happen at loads of clubs all across the land. I also struggle to take on board criticism, when much of it is coming from the people who proclaimed that Tony Pulis could never get us to where we are now, and who proclaim he will take Stoke City down almost every season, as soon as we have a bad run. Short termism bores me. Stoke City are taking part in a marathon, not a sprint. We also joined the Marathon with lots of clubs already 15 miles ahead of us. I'm always very wary that this wonderful period in our history could come to an end at any point, and when it does, I want to look back and feel that I enjoyed it as much as possible, taking the rough with the smooth. So 'happy just to be here' basically? |
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 5, 2013 20:49:28 GMT
And the winner of the Oatcake Peace Prize for 2013 goes to......
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 20:52:30 GMT
Away form isn't irrelevant. If anything, it's the achilles heel of many clubs, not just Stoke. It isn't a case of not accepting the criticism. I just don't often see the point of it, especially when people criticise the same things that happen at loads of clubs all across the land. I also struggle to take on board criticism, when much of it is coming from the people who proclaimed that Tony Pulis could never get us to where we are now, and who proclaim he will take Stoke City down almost every season, as soon as we have a bad run. Short termism bores me. Stoke City are taking part in a marathon, not a sprint. We also joined the Marathon with lots of clubs already 15 miles ahead of us. I'm always very wary that this wonderful period in our history could come to an end at any point, and when it does, I want to look back and feel that I enjoyed it as much as possible, taking the rough with the smooth. Tony Pulis is the epitome of short termism, hence his comments about The Academy. We need someone who believes in a vibrant, healthy youth policy, not someone who pisses millions up the wall on established players like Crouch. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 5, 2013 20:54:31 GMT
Away form isn't irrelevant. If anything, it's the achilles heel of many clubs, not just Stoke. It isn't a case of not accepting the criticism. I just don't often see the point of it, especially when people criticise the same things that happen at loads of clubs all across the land. I also struggle to take on board criticism, when much of it is coming from the people who proclaimed that Tony Pulis could never get us to where we are now, and who proclaim he will take Stoke City down almost every season, as soon as we have a bad run. Short termism bores me. Stoke City are taking part in a marathon, not a sprint. We also joined the Marathon with lots of clubs already 15 miles ahead of us. I'm always very wary that this wonderful period in our history could come to an end at any point, and when it does, I want to look back and feel that I enjoyed it as much as possible, taking the rough with the smooth. So 'happy just to be here' basically? No. I think that's the major mistake that many people make when assessing how someone who doesn't stamp their feet feels about our current situation. I'm not sure how taking a level headed view of football as a whole means I'm just happy that Stoke are in the Premier League. Of course I'd like us to win the league, become champions of Europe, stuff Arsenal 4-0 home and away each season, and sign players like Messi or Carlton Cole. Of course I would like us to be positive in every game that we play, take it to the opposition and show real drive and determination for 90 minutes week in week out. In reality though, hardly any teams do any of that, and that is the reason I don't get in a tizz about it all. As I said, i'll take the rough with the smooth. As a football fan, it's what I expect of myself. |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 5, 2013 20:57:30 GMT
I don't think anyone hand on heart can lay genuine claim to the middle ground can they? That is the whole subtext of the article isn't it? I posted in support of the Sentinel article but this is a much more thorough piece.
|
|
|
|
Post by stokie25 on Feb 5, 2013 20:58:32 GMT
So 'happy just to be here' basically? No. I think that's the major mistake that many people make when assessing how someone who doesn't stamp their feet feels about our current situation. I'm not sure how taking a level headed view of football as a whole means I'm just happy that Stoke are in the Premier League. Of course I'd like us to win the league, become champions of Europe, stuff Arsenal 4-0 home and away each season, and sign players like Messi or Carlton Cole. Of course I would like us to be positive in every game that we play, take it to the opposition and show real drive and determination for 90 minutes week in week out. In reality though, hardly any teams do any of that, and that is the reason I don't get in a tizz about it all. As I said, i'll take the rough with the smooth. As a football fan, it's what I expect of myself. that's all a bit melodramatic Dave, you are taking people's expectations to the extreme, of course we don't expect Champions League football or to stuff top 6 clubs, but you mention 'the rough with the smooth'. Can we have a bit more smooth after spending 95 million? Not the biggest ask, is it? |
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 5, 2013 21:01:00 GMT
well summed up - I think I just let the Angel win in the knowledge that the devil will have his day and it will very likely start in a better position the longer it is
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 21:01:45 GMT
So 'happy just to be here' basically? No. I think that's the major mistake that many people make when assessing how someone who doesn't stamp their feet feels about our current situation. I'm not sure how taking a level headed view of football as a whole means I'm just happy that Stoke are in the Premier League. Of course I'd like us to win the league, become champions of Europe, stuff Arsenal 4-0 home and away each season, and sign players like Messi or Carlton Cole. Of course I would like us to be positive in every game that we play, take it to the opposition and show real drive and determination for 90 minutes week in week out. In reality though, hardly any teams do any of that, and that is the reason I don't get in a tizz about it all. As I said, i'll take the rough with the smooth. As a football fan, it's what I expect of myself. You seem to be suggesting that anyone unhappy has unrealistic expectations. What a lot of people are frustrated about is the fact that we know we can play better than this, we've seen us play better than this, and yet w'eve spent a lot more money since then and don't look anywhere near as good. Nobody expects us to blitz teams every week or qualify for the Champions League. |
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on Feb 5, 2013 21:01:57 GMT
I don't think anyone hand on heart can lay genuine claim to the middle ground can they? That is the whole subtext of the article isn't it? I posted in support of the Sentinel article but this is a much more thorough piece. for me I don't have the angel and the devil. I am supportive of TP. However the issues that the 'other side' are wrist slashing about do frustrate me so in that sense i lay claim to the middle ground  |
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 5, 2013 21:04:04 GMT
I don't think anyone hand on heart can lay genuine claim to the middle ground can they? That is the whole subtext of the article isn't it? I posted in support of the Sentinel article but this is a much more thorough piece. I'm not so sure, mate. You manage it quite nicely where Tony Scholes is concerned. |
|
|
|
Post by stokie25 on Feb 5, 2013 21:05:08 GMT
I don't think anyone hand on heart can lay genuine claim to the middle ground can they? That is the whole subtext of the article isn't it? I posted in support of the Sentinel article but this is a much more thorough piece. for me I don't have the angel and the devil. I am supportive of TP. However the issues that the 'other side' are wrist slashing about do frustrate me so in that sense i lay claim to the middle ground What will you do when Tony Pulis no longer is the helm of the SCFC ship? We had managers before 2008 and we'll have managers longer after he leaves! |
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on Feb 5, 2013 21:06:05 GMT
for me I don't have the angel and the devil. I am supportive of TP. However the issues that the 'other side' are wrist slashing about do frustrate me so in that sense i lay claim to the middle ground What will you do when Tony Pulis no longer is the helm of the SCFC ship? We had managers before 2008 and we'll have managers longer after he leaves! will have to support the buggers |
|
