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Post by Pugsley on Feb 2, 2013 22:00:57 GMT
Frightening, It really is for a top flight club. We can't do any of the basics from controlling a football to making a telling pass.
Wilko, Shotton, Whelan, Cameron, Walters even Huth.
This is the legacy of Tony Pulis.
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Post by underdog on Feb 2, 2013 22:02:39 GMT
Not pushing on much are we
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Post by larrypotter on Feb 2, 2013 22:16:52 GMT
How the fuck we've managed to amass 30 points is a mystery eh Pugs?
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Post by lexie on Feb 2, 2013 22:44:29 GMT
Today even more so highlighted we need two fullbacks and two widemen (May be brett shea fill one of those) we lack pace going forward so are unable to stretch teams. No wonder a number of teams have taken points away from The Emirates as if you take it too them there not that good but unfortnately we sat deep as usual and invited them on. My views on today why did Crouch start surely Jones is a better option against a physical centre half, Shotton never looked to take the ball forward it was always backwards? Wilko must learn you cant lunged in players they will go down. We created nothing second half which was a shame as Arsenal didnt create anything also, first half we rode are luck but with a bit more adverture we could have nicked a point or even 3 but it was too late to bring Jones and Jerome on once we were losing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 22:48:15 GMT
Well we would certainly be nowhere near 30 points if you took away all the goals scored from set pieces. Boring football at its very worst. Lets hope the end is in sight.
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Post by northantsash on Feb 2, 2013 22:53:29 GMT
i think its a lot worse away from home to be fair.
the home games this season have been quite entertaining, we average 1.4 goals a game at home with 1 league defeat this season, whereas 8 goals in 13 away games and 1 win tells you all you need to know about tony pulis approach to away games
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 2, 2013 23:05:47 GMT
Well we would certainly be nowhere near 30 points if you took away all the goals scored from set pieces. Boring football at its very worst. Lets hope the end is in sight. Man u would be no where near the top with out their goals from set pieces either. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 23:06:53 GMT
Well we would certainly be nowhere near 30 points if you took away all the goals scored from set pieces. Boring football at its very worst. Lets hope the end is in sight. Man u would be no where near the top with out their goals from set pieces either. Straw clutching at its very best. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 23:13:19 GMT
Frightening, It really is for a top flight club. We can't do any of the basics from controlling a football to making a telling pass. Wilko, Shotton, Whelan, Cameron, Walters even Huth. This is the legacy of Tony Pulis. Yet there was so much hope and enthusiasm regarding some of our away performances early on in the season, Stoke have proved that they can play, seems like after the Man utd game Pulis decided to revert back to the usual away tactics  |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 2, 2013 23:24:07 GMT
All of our players are capable of controlling and passing a football...even the shit ones.
However, good crisp quality passing is more about the movement of your team-mates than anything else and the crux of the matter is that our team system is so rigid, so inflexible, that movement is almost "banned".
That is the reason why we aren't as pleasing on the eye, technically as other teams who are less rigid in their approach.
Watch the team closely. Every single player operates within a certain space and the pitch is broken down into segments which each player covers and doesn't leave.
This, more than any other reason, explains why we are so shit away from home. On bigger pitches, our players have to cover bigger spaces and the team get more stretched.
Until our focus is placed on causing the opposition to worry about us rather than the other way around, it will always be the same.
As AVB said after the Spurs game...we are brilliant defensively and very well organised but it is much easier to coach defensive football than it is to coach offensive play.
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Post by keasie1863 on Feb 2, 2013 23:53:18 GMT
All of our players are capable of controlling and passing a football...even the shit ones. However, good crisp quality passing is more about the movement of your team-mates than anything else and the crux of the matter is that our team system is so rigid, so inflexible, that movement is almost "banned". That is the reason why we aren't as pleasing on the eye, technically as other teams who are less rigid in their approach. Watch the team closely. Every single player operates within a certain space and the pitch is broken down into segments which each player covers and doesn't leave. This, more than any other reason, explains why we are so shit away from home. On bigger pitches, our players have to cover bigger spaces and the team get more stretched. Until our focus is placed on causing the opposition to worry about us rather than the other way around, it will always be the same. As AVB said after the Spurs game...we are brilliant defensively and very well organised but it is much easier to coach defensive football than it is to coach offensive play. That my friend is one of the best posts I have seen on this forum. +1 |
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 2, 2013 23:57:41 GMT
Excellent post, Dave.
We are so regimented, drilled and ordered. It's the kind of football the Chinese government would coach. It's straight-line, grid football. They're not allowed to leave their little square of turf so as to maintain defensive shape.
It's obviously not without merit and it's a bugger to break down if the players are disciplined and drilled enough.
Although we looked confused at the back, I thought the first half against Wigan was the first time I can recall when our players had options on the ball and they were making non-regimented attacking movements
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Feb 3, 2013 1:00:40 GMT
This, more than any other reason, explains why we are so shit away from home. On bigger pitches, our players have to cover bigger spaces and the team get more stretched. As AVB said after the Spurs game...we are brilliant defensively and very well organised but it is much easier to coach defensive football than it is to coach offensive play. Agree with much of what you say Dave, just two points: 1. The bigger pitch argument is a red herring; that one was firmly put to bed with the Bolton semi at Wembley. We used the space to tear Bolton a big one that day. Plus we seemed to play with more freedom in the Europa League too, again on bigger pitches, including the Brit pitch. 2. I am not a professional coach, but why should it be easier to coach the defensive side of the game as opposed to coaching the attacking side? This was AVB's statement yes? As I see it, both are vital elements of the one game we love. Teams need to learn how to defend well, particularly against set pieces, where lack of physical strength or organisation are both factors as to why a team concedes 'soft goals'. Yes by all means attack and go for it, but lets not forget that we now need to get back to shipping few or no goals at the back and quickly. |
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Post by stokemanusa on Feb 3, 2013 1:17:15 GMT
We really need wilson back asap it's evident we are a different team with shotton and wiko than wilson and cameron in the backline... although I liked cameron in a CDM spot tonight with a shea and another winger working with nzonzi seems viable.
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Post by harrysburrow on Feb 3, 2013 8:07:43 GMT
Just watch MOTD. Everton v Villa, Reading v Sumdrland. From a fundamental footballing view point we are indeed miles behind.
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Post by hanibal7 on Feb 3, 2013 8:20:45 GMT
That is why many supporters question pullis hoofball tactics.We are without doubt thorst team in premiership to watch,no wonder we are last on motd.Very very few friends and aquaintences praise our style of ple, quite the reverse,and its not because of no money to spend just dinasour tactics,especialy away from home
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Post by jstoke7 on Feb 3, 2013 8:22:17 GMT
All of our players are capable of controlling and passing a football...even the shit ones. However, good crisp quality passing is more about the movement of your team-mates than anything else and the crux of the matter is that our team system is so rigid, so inflexible, that movement is almost "banned". That is the reason why we aren't as pleasing on the eye, technically as other teams who are less rigid in their approach. Watch the team closely. Every single player operates within a certain space and the pitch is broken down into segments which each player covers and doesn't leave. This, more than any other reason, explains why we are so shit away from home. On bigger pitches, our players have to cover bigger spaces and the team get more stretched. Until our focus is placed on causing the opposition to worry about us rather than the other way around, it will always be the same. As AVB said after the Spurs game...we are brilliant defensively and very well organised but it is much easier to coach defensive football than it is to coach offensive play. Top top post, I've been banging this drum for ages! Whilst Pulis may not lean towards the most technically gifted, they are all more than capable playing a lot more football, it's just the rigid approach that stops it! |
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Post by rorymscfc on Feb 3, 2013 8:26:28 GMT
All of our players are capable of controlling and passing a football...even the shit ones. However, good crisp quality passing is more about the movement of your team-mates than anything else and the crux of the matter is that our team system is so rigid, so inflexible, that movement is almost "banned". That is the reason why we aren't as pleasing on the eye, technically as other teams who are less rigid in their approach. Watch the team closely. Every single player operates within a certain space and the pitch is broken down into segments which each player covers and doesn't leave. This, more than any other reason, explains why we are so shit away from home. On bigger pitches, our players have to cover bigger spaces and the team get more stretched. Until our focus is placed on causing the opposition to worry about us rather than the other way around, it will always be the same. As AVB said after the Spurs game...we are brilliant defensively and very well organised but it is much easier to coach defensive football than it is to coach offensive play. All premier league pitches are the same size this season though. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 3, 2013 8:27:53 GMT
Oatcakes - it is easier because it relies solely on organising 11 players and drilling them to do something repetitively.
Good attacking sides can attack, in numbers, whilst still being tight defensively.
At our level, at the moment, Swansea seem to have found a fairly decent blend, despite some appalling away performances of their own.
As for the bigger pitch argument, you go on to prove my point perfectly.
At the time of the semi-final, the team were in the collective form of their lives. The shackles had been released and we were seemingly focused on causing teams problems rather than worrying about what they might do to us.
We even went toe to toe with Tottenham in a really open game that we lost 3-2 but should have won 5-3.
As I said, until the focus of our game is based on causing the opposition problems rather than worrying about them and simply trying to destroy a game, then our passing will always be horrid.
There is simply no movement in our team because they each have a segment of the pitch to cover and which they rarely, if ever, leave.
We are too rigid and too inflexible to be a good passing team in the way that others appear to be.
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Post by padders01 on Feb 3, 2013 8:38:17 GMT
That Tottenham away game was a great game to watch, both teams wanting to attack and score goals
Probably our last decent one in the league?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 3, 2013 8:45:33 GMT
That isn't true Rory!
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Post by rorymscfc on Feb 3, 2013 9:08:54 GMT
I thought it was a rule that came in this season Dave with the only exceptions being teams who physically can't meet the standard due to ground on straights (I.e. Everton).
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Post by werrington on Feb 3, 2013 9:11:05 GMT
One incident showed it up for what it is yesterday
A few minutes to go and losing we kick it forward to the lone man up front who has no options as EVERYBODY is 10 yards behind him so he then has to either pass it back into the scrum or hold onto it until support arrives ( it never does in most games ).....he loses poseesion and Arsenal get it forward to Corzola who should of scored.
The lack of pace is frightening especially up front as if a player is up top on his own he needs to have pace?
I wish people on here would see it all for what it is when they start to criticise certain ( the same ) individuals
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Macc
Youth Player
Posts: 334
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Post by Macc on Feb 3, 2013 9:12:46 GMT
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 3, 2013 9:29:51 GMT
...but it is much easier to coach defensive football than it is to coach offensive play. Like I've been saying for 5 years. Lazy arsed management. |
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Post by fca47 on Feb 3, 2013 9:39:30 GMT
I don't think the statement is true at all. There are players in the team who can't pass a ball 30 yards but I think that is true of all teams.
I put it down to our tactics, "The Cage". The so called footballing teams are all making short 5 to ten yard passes, which I am sure we are capable of, especially if we spent time in training, rather that concentrating on defensive shape.
Watching most other teams you see the midfielders storming forward to the edge of the opposing penalty area, whereas ours darn't cross the half-way line, forcing them to make twenty yard passes. Defenders who aren't allowed to bring the ball out from the back and instructed to play it over the top.
It's an old adage that football is a simple game, but it is simpler when you don't have to be Glenn Hoddle to make a pass.
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