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Post by foster on Jan 18, 2013 12:30:38 GMT
Here is a sobering thought! Crouch would more than likely still be starting up front and Jones on the bench if Crouch had got that whack in the face against Newcastle Very scary thought! Pulis's hand was twisted because of the injury. Already said above mate. Mama for me is another one. He'd still be a starter for us had he never got injured. Now THAT, is scary!
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 18, 2013 12:31:03 GMT
There isn't a single player in the Prem who could do half the job Kenwyne does for Stoke, name another player who would slot into that position as well as he does? Barring Adebayor who would obviously laugh at the thought of joining Stoke. Who is there? It would be the biggest mistake for a long time if we choose to sell Jones.
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Post by foster on Jan 18, 2013 12:35:04 GMT
There isn't a single player in the Prem who could do half the job Kenwyne does for Stoke, name another player who would slot into that position as well as he does? Barring Adebayor who would obviously laugh at the thought of joining Stoke. Who is there? It would be the biggest mistake for a long time if we choose to sell Jones. Has Graham signed for Sunderland yet? Maybe a KJ deal would involve him coming this way? Not that I'm interested. Do they have any players that could possibly do a good job here? Hernandez, Routledge, Michu (no chance), etc...
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 18, 2013 12:35:31 GMT
Imagine running up and down the pitch, defending then going into attack to find yourself on your own surrounded by defenders. How many times are you going to run into position without receiving the ball or decent service from wingers. We moan at headless chickens and berate those with the sense not to.
IF we replace KJ it needs to be someone who can do better and there doesn't seem to be many about who will fit into the style TP dictate
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Post by 11wilkosinateam on Jan 18, 2013 12:41:56 GMT
KJ needs playing now but when his form tails off we are stuck in the same position we were 12 months ago
We don't create as many chances for crouch but he's much more clinical than jones
Create more chances for jones and he creates some for himself but he needs more to score
Either way we will never get better than 10-15 goals a season from our main striker
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 12:46:47 GMT
KJ needs playing now but when his form tails off we are stuck in the same position we were 12 months ago We don't create as many chances for crouch but he's much more clinical than jones Create more chances for jones and he creates some for himself but he needs more to score Either way we will never get better than 10-15 goals a season from our main striker But that won't matter if the team is scoring plenty of goals.
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 18, 2013 12:47:50 GMT
There isn't a single player in the Prem who could do half the job Kenwyne does for Stoke, name another player who would slot into that position as well as he does? Barring Adebayor who would obviously laugh at the thought of joining Stoke. Who is there? It would be the biggest mistake for a long time if we choose to sell Jones. Has Graham signed for Sunderland yet? Maybe a KJ deal would involve him coming this way? Not that I'm interested. Do they have any players that could possibly do a good job here? Hernandez, Routledge, Michu (no chance), etc... I'd take Routledge in a heartbeat, he is exactly what we are looking for, we still can't afford to lose Jones though.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 18, 2013 12:56:13 GMT
There isn't a single player in the Prem who could do half the job Kenwyne does for Stoke, name another player who would slot into that position as well as he does? Barring Adebayor who would obviously laugh at the thought of joining Stoke. Who is there? It would be the biggest mistake for a long time if we choose to sell Jones. Bang on that 22.
Don't even think Adebeyor could actually.
Gomis maybe?.
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Post by northstokie on Jan 18, 2013 12:57:01 GMT
People keep saying Crouch is more clinical, is he really that much better? He misses plenty of chances too and whilst KJ does also, most of those chances are self made and so not ones Crouch would have the luxury of missing.
People also mention KJ's lean spell cup final season and not to forget he was dismal for months, the fact is he scored an almost identical amount of goals as Crouch did last season even with that thrown in is telling. Today he looks better than he ever has done for us so to even consider letting him go would be ridiculous, assuming of course he wants to remain at Stoke.
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 18, 2013 12:57:30 GMT
And, if TP insists that we need to freshen up Striker wise. Should without a doubt be Crouch we are looking to sell, let Arry have him back for 5/6m. The frustrating thing is though, we have two Strikers capable of scoring 10/12 league goals a season with sufficient service from out wide. It is the wingers that need replacing!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 18, 2013 12:59:36 GMT
Lukaku would do a much better job. I reckon Kone would do well there too. I think Fletcher would be better there than most on here think too.
All three could have both been Stoke players this season.
We shouldn't sell KJ unless we have a replacement.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 18, 2013 13:01:34 GMT
And, if TP insists that we need to freshen up Striker wise. Should without a doubt be Crouch we are looking to sell, let Arry have him back for 5/6m. The frustrating thing is though, we have two Strikers capable of scoring 10/12 league goals a season with sufficient service from out wide. It is the wingers that need replacing! Don't believe some people! New Wingers! You'll be asking for proper fullbacks next. ;D
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 18, 2013 13:04:36 GMT
Lukaku would do a much better job. I reckon Kone would do well there too. I think Fletcher would be better there than most on here think too. All three could have both been Stoke players this season. We shouldn't sell KJ unless we have a replacement. Forgot about Lukaku, he'd do a job there of course. Fletcher is more of a Walters upgrade and I see Kone more as a Jerome upgrade. Value for money for Fletcher was poor, what did he end up costing? Kone would have been a decent buy!
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Post by pez75 on Jan 18, 2013 13:06:39 GMT
KJ has done really well but 1 win in the last 8 suggests our season is far from 'transformed'. You miserable sod! Don't let cold hard facts get in the way of an hysterical jizz-fest.
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Post by northstokie on Jan 18, 2013 13:07:22 GMT
Lukaku would do a much better job. I reckon Kone would do well there too. I think Fletcher would be better there than most on here think too. All three could have both been Stoke players this season. We shouldn't sell KJ unless we have a replacement. I rate Kone, but he'd only do well here leading the line with KJ/AN.Other in the hole - I'd take that
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 13:07:49 GMT
KJ has done really well but 1 win in the last 8 suggests our season is far from 'transformed'. You miserable sod! Don't let cold hard facts get in the way of an hysterical jizz-fest. Is it fair to say you've not taken this whole 'Kenwyne not being shit' thing very well?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 18, 2013 13:09:42 GMT
Lukaku would do a much better job. I reckon Kone would do well there too. I think Fletcher would be better there than most on here think too. All three could have both been Stoke players this season. We shouldn't sell KJ unless we have a replacement. Forgot about Lukaku, he'd do a job there of course. Fletcher is more of a Walters upgrade and I see Kone more as a Jerome upgrade. Value for money for Fletcher was poor, what did he end up costing? Kone would have been a decent buy! 12 million wasn't it? It is a lot for him but he's better than KJ imo and younger. And Fletcher in our set up would play up top and not in the Walters role. But I do think we'd need better service for him. I like the look of Kone and he was relatively cheap. I think we all agree that the system is a bit shit for any striker really! ;D 10 goals is the most any striker could get from it imo. Fuller, KJ and Crouch have all achieved that. I aren't even sure Ba if he stayed fit (there's another one and Cisse) would get more. But they are more clinical so maybe they would? Lukaku would do a much better job. I reckon Kone would do well there too. I think Fletcher would be better there than most on here think too. All three could have both been Stoke players this season. We shouldn't sell KJ unless we have a replacement. I rate Kone, but he'd only do well here leading the line with KJ/AN.Other in the hole - I'd take that He would have been a good cheapo option to rotate. There's bigger issues than Crouch/KJ here though for me. They revolve about TP not knowing what players actually suit his fookin system. The system itself. And poor squad management.
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Post by foster on Jan 18, 2013 13:12:57 GMT
Forgot about Lukaku, he'd do a job there of course. Fletcher is more of a Walters upgrade and I see Kone more as a Jerome upgrade. Value for money for Fletcher was poor, what did he end up costing? Kone would have been a decent buy! 12 million wasn't it? It is a lot for him but he's better than KJ imo and younger. And Fletcher in our set up would play up top and not in the Walters role. But I do think we'd need better service for him. I like the look of Kone and he was relatively cheap. I think we all agree that the system is a bit shit for any striker really! ;D 10 goals is the most any striker could get from it imo. Fuller, KJ and Crouch have all achieved that. I aren't even sure Ba if he stayed fit (there's another one and Cisse) would get more. But they are more clinical so maybe they would? Benteke maybe? He's on loan isn't he? Maybe we can stick in a cheeky bid.
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 18, 2013 13:13:47 GMT
Forgot about Lukaku, he'd do a job there of course. Fletcher is more of a Walters upgrade and I see Kone more as a Jerome upgrade. Value for money for Fletcher was poor, what did he end up costing? Kone would have been a decent buy! 12 million wasn't it? It is a lot for him but he's better than KJ imo and younger. And Fletcher in our set up would play up top and not in the Walters role. But I do think we'd need better service for him. I like the look of Kone and he was relatively cheap. I think we all agree that the system is a bit shit for any striker really! ;D 10 goals is the most any striker could get from it imo. Fuller, KJ and Crouch have all achieved that. I aren't even sure Ba if he stayed fit (there's another one and Cisse) would get more. But they are more clinical so maybe they would? I rate Kone, but he'd only do well here leading the line with KJ/AN.Other in the hole - I'd take that He would have been a good cheapo option to rotate. There's bigger issues than Crouch/KJ here though for me. They revolve about TP not knowing what players actually suit his fookin system. The system itself. And poor squad management. [/quote] The system is good, BUT only good if you have 2 wingers both capable of 4 or 5 pin point crosses per game. We don't of course.
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Post by pez75 on Jan 18, 2013 13:15:02 GMT
Hang on, for all his recent upturn in form and attitude. this is the bloke who has barely tried a leg for 18 months. Like evryone else I'm enjoying this Lazaurslike transformation but fuck me he's been a lazy git. No no, you have to realise when the fickle fans on this MB have a new hero to laud, history gets re-written. Now KJ is the saviour - and was all along, just you me & TP were too stupid to realise, and Crouch is the villain - he and Owen are part of an evil master plan to take us back down to the Championship. (Cue posts galore stating how they always said KJ was the new Drogba )
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 13:17:05 GMT
12 million wasn't it? It is a lot for him but he's better than KJ imo and younger. And Fletcher in our set up would play up top and not in the Walters role. But I do think we'd need better service for him. I like the look of Kone and he was relatively cheap. I think we all agree that the system is a bit shit for any striker really! ;D 10 goals is the most any striker could get from it imo. Fuller, KJ and Crouch have all achieved that. I aren't even sure Ba if he stayed fit (there's another one and Cisse) would get more. But they are more clinical so maybe they would? Benteke maybe? He's on loan isn't he? Maybe we can stick in a cheeky bid. He was a permanent signing I think.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 18, 2013 13:17:36 GMT
12 million wasn't it? It is a lot for him but he's better than KJ imo and younger. And Fletcher in our set up would play up top and not in the Walters role. But I do think we'd need better service for him. I like the look of Kone and he was relatively cheap. I think we all agree that the system is a bit shit for any striker really! ;D 10 goals is the most any striker could get from it imo. Fuller, KJ and Crouch have all achieved that. I aren't even sure Ba if he stayed fit (there's another one and Cisse) would get more. But they are more clinical so maybe they would? I rate Kone, but he'd only do well here leading the line with KJ/AN.Other in the hole - I'd take that He would have been a good cheapo option to rotate. There's bigger issues than Crouch/KJ here though for me. They revolve about TP not knowing what players actually suit his fookin system. The system itself. And poor squad management. The system is good, BUT only good if you have 2 wingers both capable of 4 or 5 pin point crosses per game. We don't of course. Yup, so the system becomes a problem along with the stubborn git who won't change it or can't recognise what players suit it. I'm not saying Pulis out. ;D I think Benteke is a donkey but he'd do the job up there for us.
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Post by pez75 on Jan 18, 2013 13:21:42 GMT
You miserable sod! Don't let cold hard facts get in the way of an hysterical jizz-fest. Is it fair to say you've not taken this whole 'Kenwyne not being shit' thing very well? I am enjoying the fact that we almost seem potent in front of goal, and I am more than happy to give KJ the credit he deserves for his part. But the swell of hysteria on here is frankly embarassing. We are deifying a player for managing to live up to his price tag once more, while using this to club another player round the head who has done nothing to deserve it other than give his all while playing for the club - something that the non-hysterical posters could not say about KJ in all his time at SCFC.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jan 18, 2013 13:22:24 GMT
Hang on, for all his recent upturn in form and attitude. this is the bloke who has barely tried a leg for 18 months. Like evryone else I'm enjoying this Lazaurslike transformation but fuck me he's been a lazy git. No no, you have to realise when the fickle fans on this MB have a new hero to laud, history gets re-written. Now KJ is the saviour - and was all along, just you me & TP were too stupid to realise, and Crouch is the villain - he and Owen are part of an evil master plan to take us back down to the Championship. (Cue posts galore stating how they always said KJ was the new Drogba ) To me it's no coincidence that Jones has well and truly pulled his finger out for the longest period since he joined the club at the time when he has a £10m player sat on the bench who Pulis is probably absolutely dying to pick again. It's a rather expensive way of getting the best out of Jones mind.
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 18, 2013 13:25:18 GMT
Hang on, for all his recent upturn in form and attitude. this is the bloke who has barely tried a leg for 18 months. Like evryone else I'm enjoying this Lazaurslike transformation but fuck me he's been a lazy git. No no, you have to realise when the fickle fans on this MB have a new hero to laud, history gets re-written. Now KJ is the saviour - and was all along, just you me & TP were too stupid to realise, and Crouch is the villain - he and Owen are part of an evil master plan to take us back down to the Championship. (Cue posts galore stating how they always said KJ was the new Drogba ) Don't think I'd be putting my heart and soul into it in the same situation either. KJ was nothing short of phenomenal during the FA Cup run and in the league that season. Crouch walks straight into the team and Jones doesn't get a look in. Isn't it obvious that players who don't play every week aren't going to have the same confidence? The same self belief? The same sharpness in front of goal? That's just common sense! When he gets a run in the team he has proven that he can score goals and create chances given the opportunity. Plus the fact he fits the system better, Crouch plays 90 minutes of the game with his back to goal. Jones makes good runs for passes to feet off the ball, he made numerous against Chelsea in the first 15 minutes of the second half but was never found by our mid fielders, either a poor pass or they didn't have the vision to see the pass. If both Jones and Crouch played all 90 minutes in every PL game in our current set up. Jones would score more goals! Whatever your opinion, it would be ridiculous to even consider letting him go BEFORE we had an adequate replacement (which isn't going to be cheap & could possibly have to look abroad - which is a risk in itself)
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 18, 2013 13:29:26 GMT
Oh its the same with all our best players - mistreated by the manager. Pulis has a rock on for big names, that is all! I bet he can't wait for Jones to have one average performance so he's got an excuse to get Crouchy back in the side!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 18, 2013 13:30:05 GMT
No no, you have to realise when the fickle fans on this MB have a new hero to laud, history gets re-written. Now KJ is the saviour - and was all along, just you me & TP were too stupid to realise, and Crouch is the villain - he and Owen are part of an evil master plan to take us back down to the Championship. (Cue posts galore stating how they always said KJ was the new Drogba ) Don't think I'd be putting my heart and soul into it in the same situation either. KJ was nothing short of phenomenal during the FA Cup run and in the league that season. Crouch walks straight into the team and Jones doesn't get a look in. Isn't it obvious that players who don't play every week aren't going to have the same confidence? The same self belief? The same sharpness in front of goal? That's just common sense! When he gets a run in the team he has proven that he can score goals and create chances given the opportunity. Plus the fact he fits the system better, Crouch plays 90 minutes of the game with his back to goal. Jones makes good runs for passes to feet off the ball, he made numerous against Chelsea in the first 15 minutes of the second half but was never found by our mid fielders, either a poor pass or they didn't have the vision to see the pass. If both Jones and Crouch played all 90 minutes in every PL game in our current set up. Jones would score more goals! Whatever your opinion, it would be ridiculous to even consider letting him go BEFORE we had an adequate replacement (which isn't going to be cheap & could possibly have to look abroad - which is a risk in itself) A few points. In the FA Cup season there were question being asked over KJ, he wasn't as bullet proof as people seem to think. Re KJ scoring more, really? They've both had a full season with us in the Premier League, one with an attacking unit and one without, they scored the same amount of league goals. So it's not that simple as saying KJ would score more. I'm not saying he won't but it's not as black and white as You make it. Agree with the last paragraph.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 18, 2013 13:31:14 GMT
If Benteke has the same slimy agent as Ba, he'll have a relegation clause in his contract.
Might well be worth keeping an eye on - he certainly has potential to go all the way & still young.
And if we ever had half a sniff of a Lukaku loan when WB got him (& they were nowhere near as good then remember) we should have busted a gut to get him.
Perfect TP lob on material.
And I could see him staying there now - and that could have been us.
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Post by pez75 on Jan 18, 2013 13:34:04 GMT
Oh its the same with all our best players - mistreated by the manager. Pulis has a rock on for big names, that is all! I bet he can't wait for Jones to have one average performance so he's got an excuse to get Crouchy back in the side! He was below average against Southampton but kept his place, and he missed a sitter & did not figure much against Chelsea but I fully expect (and want) him to start against Swansea. He is currently above Crouch in the pecking order so why all the fuss?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 18, 2013 13:37:49 GMT
Don't think I'd be putting my heart and soul into it in the same situation either. KJ was nothing short of phenomenal during the FA Cup run and in the league that season. Crouch walks straight into the team and Jones doesn't get a look in. Isn't it obvious that players who don't play every week aren't going to have the same confidence? The same self belief? The same sharpness in front of goal? That's just common sense! When he gets a run in the team he has proven that he can score goals and create chances given the opportunity. Plus the fact he fits the system better, Crouch plays 90 minutes of the game with his back to goal. Jones makes good runs for passes to feet off the ball, he made numerous against Chelsea in the first 15 minutes of the second half but was never found by our mid fielders, either a poor pass or they didn't have the vision to see the pass. If both Jones and Crouch played all 90 minutes in every PL game in our current set up. Jones would score more goals! Whatever your opinion, it would be ridiculous to even consider letting him go BEFORE we had an adequate replacement (which isn't going to be cheap & could possibly have to look abroad - which is a risk in itself) A few points. In the FA Cup season there were question being asked over KJ, he wasn't as bullet proof as people seem to think. Re KJ scoring more, really? They've both had a full season with us in the Premier League, one with an attacking unit and one without, they scored the same amount of league goals. So it's not that simple as saying KJ would score more. I'm not saying he won't but it's not as black and white as You make it. Agree with the last paragraph. His point would have been far more effective, if he had said that although Jones and Crouch have been on a par with each other in terms of finding the net, the team as a WHOLE scores more goals with Jones in it.
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