Fouls?

[chellpotter]

Can anyone confirm where a foul is penalised?

If a shirt is being pulled outside the box and continues into the box and the ref blows for a foul, is it a free kick as it started outside the box or a penalty?

It looked like Ryan was pulling Suarez's shirt outside the box and kept hold until Suarez fell inside the box.

[StokeyMan]

Good point, he did start 'shirt tugging' outside of the area and perhaps needs to be elaborated on...

[Deleted]

A definite penalty accoring to ex-Liverpool player Mark Lawrenson.

Actually, I think it was more of the usual MotD sloppy analysis rather than bias on his part. I don't think he could be arsed enough to notice that the offence was outside the box.

[chellpotter]

Cheers fellas I thought it was just me interpreting the rules wrongly!

[scotty78]

Basically if a foul is committed outside the box, but then continues inside, it can be given as a penalty, ie the ref is giving an advantage to see what may happen, which I this case shawcross continued to pull his shirt, was a definite penalty.

[sheikhmomo]

It was a fucking penalty end of story.

[scotty78]

Agree momo, no doubt either way. The story of the night is the response.

[vinecent]

I would say it should of been a free-kick, Suarez did seemingly just throw himself more inside the box.

[tuum]

Dec 27, 2012 0:43:27 GMT scotty78 said:

Basically if a foul is committed outside the box, but then continues inside, it can be given as a penalty, ie the ref is giving an advantage to see what may happen, which I this case shawcross continued to pull his shirt, was a definite penalty.

I agree with the above.
The ref can call for a foul at any point in time through the duration of the offence ..or words to that effect. So, if we pull a blokes shirt continually for 30yds the ref can call a foul at any point of that 30 yard run.

[tuum]

Dec 27, 2012 0:58:19 GMT vinecent said:

I would say it should of been a free-kick, Suarez did seemingly just throw himself more inside the box.

Maybe that was just the stored momentum as Shawcross finally let go of his shirt thus propellig Suarez to the ground in an exaggerated fashion?
I'm no physicist,like!

[onionman]

It was a penalty, but Suarez also dived.

[Roy Cropper]

Dec 27, 2012 2:21:20 GMT onionman said:

It was a penalty, but Suarez also dived.

How I saw it.

[sorethumbs]

Without doubt a penno but still pisses me off when the likes of Glen Hoddle and Jamie Redknapp are saying Suarez had every right to go down. This attitude needs fucking off pronto. If you're fouled and can't keep your footing fair enough, anything else is cheating end of. Anyone who condones it and says they have 'every right to go down' is a cunt and wants a right fucking good slap imo

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[JoeinOz]

Deffo penno. Shawcy got done for pace.

[whereami]

Can anyone explain how being pulled back makes someone fall forward? it was a foul, it was also a dive. as much a yellow for bugs as it was a penalty.

[lawrieleslie]

Dec 27, 2012 0:43:27 GMT scotty78 said:

Basically if a foul is committed outside the box, but then continues inside, it can be given as a penalty, ie the ref is giving an advantage to see what may happen, which I this case shawcross continued to pull his shirt, was a definite penalty.

Scotty if the ref plays the advantage to see what happens but then awards a free kick, doesn't he hve to bring the ball back to where te foul occurred? Last night I don't think HW saw the shirt tugging until sewerage was in the peno box. In which case he was right to ward the peno IMO.

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[chiswickpotter]

Dec 27, 2012 4:09:56 GMT sorethumbs said:

Without doubt a penno but still pisses me off when the likes of Glen Hoddle and Jamie Redknapp are saying Suarez had every right to go down. This attitude needs fucking off pronto. If you're fouled and can't keep your footing fair enough, anything else is cheating end of. Anyone who condones it and says they have 'every right to go down' is a cunt and wants a right fucking good slap imo

no more cheating than pulling someone's shirt though? We can't have it both ways. Definite penalty and so what if he went down to amke sure he got it, if you commit the foul expect the consequences

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[chellpotter]

I agree it was a foul, but tuum if you were fouling for 30 yards isn't it brought back to where the fouling began not where it ended when the ref decided to blow his whistle.

It's like when a player gets kicked on the edge of the area and again inside the box but the ref gives a free kick.

I find it hard these days to make sense of the rules as two instances of the same foul can have different outcomes.

[scfc75]

Great captaincy by Shawcross... get the crowd riled up by giving a penalty away, knowing that we would go on to win comfortably.

[chellpotter]

Was Webb trying to send out an early message after the Shawcross Felaini episode to curb the tussles in the box?

[scfc75]

Dec 27, 2012 11:38:19 GMT chellpotter said:

Was Webb trying to send out an early message after the Shawcross Felaini episode to curb the tussles in the box?

Don't think so. A foul is a foul, it was blatant.

[Olgrligm]

Dec 27, 2012 2:21:20 GMT onionman said:

It was a penalty, but Suarez also dived.

Yes, definite foul and a particularly stupid one. No need to grab hos shirt like that.

However, if I were the referee, I would have observed that Suarez waited until he was in the box until he fell over theatrically and would have booked him for diving. I'd do that for any player at any club.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2012 4:09:56 GMT sorethumbs said:

Without doubt a penno but still pisses me off when the likes of Glen Hoddle and Jamie Redknapp are saying Suarez had every right to go down. This attitude needs fucking off pronto. If you're fouled and can't keep your footing fair enough, anything else is cheating end of. Anyone who condones it and says they have 'every right to go down' is a cunt and wants a right fucking good slap imo

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But a defender holding the shirt and getting away with it because of the honesty of the striker is cheating going unpunished too isn't it? Why should a striker being fouled go out of his way to do a defender fouling him any favours.

[casper113]

we won 3-1 lets no worry about it

[metalhead]

I agree, we won 3-1, be happy.

....But seeing as we're allowed to put our 1 pence in, I actually disagree. I think it was a penalty. Ultimately, Suarez went down for the penalty, and we know it, he's a cheating rat, so he hit the deck at just the right moment, but as they approached the box I've seen many other defenders in a similar situation let go. If Suarez had hit the deck in the penalty box and Shawcross had just let go, everyone would have seen it was a dive, but holding on gave Suarez an actual reason to go down. It was a rare bit of naivety from Ryan and for me there are no complaints.

[scotty78]

Dec 27, 2012 7:05:41 GMT lawrieleslie said:

Dec 27, 2012 0:43:27 GMT scotty78 said:

Basically if a foul is committed outside the box, but then continues inside, it can be given as a penalty, ie the ref is giving an advantage to see what may happen, which I this case shawcross continued to pull his shirt, was a definite penalty.

Scotty if the ref plays the advantage to see what happens but then awards a free kick, doesn't he hve to bring the ball back to where te foul occurred? Last night I don't think HW saw the shirt tugging until sewerage was in the peno box. In which case he was right to ward the peno IMO.

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[scotty78]

No, as if you think about it if he fouls him at any poit on the pitch, say outside the box and let's the play go on, technically you could then get fee foul on him, ie foul him outside of the box, ref plays on and the take him down in the box, ref would give a pen and not pull it back to the original foul. Make sense?

[Olgrligm]

Dec 27, 2012 11:54:03 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

Dec 27, 2012 4:09:56 GMT sorethumbs said:

Without doubt a penno but still pisses me off when the likes of Glen Hoddle and Jamie Redknapp are saying Suarez had every right to go down. This attitude needs fucking off pronto. If you're fouled and can't keep your footing fair enough, anything else is cheating end of. Anyone who condones it and says they have 'every right to go down' is a cunt and wants a right fucking good slap imo

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But a defender holding the shirt and getting away with it because of the honesty of the striker is cheating going unpunished too isn't it? Why should a striker being fouled go out of his way to do a defender fouling him any favours.

Referees need to start actually blowing for fouls instead of thinking that it's not a penalty unless a player goes to ground. It was obviously a foul by Ryan and that strange rule about fouls outside and then inside the box means that he was correct to give a penalty. I just loathe that Suarez stayed on his feet until he was in the box to chuck himself at the floor. In fact, I'd encourage referees to actually give the penalties for fouls like that if the forward makes an honest attempt to stay up, but if he chucks himself at the floor then it's a yellow card for diving and a free-kick.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2012 23:54:37 GMT Olgrligm said:

Dec 27, 2012 11:54:03 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

But a defender holding the shirt and getting away with it because of the honesty of the striker is cheating going unpunished too isn't it? Why should a striker being fouled go out of his way to do a defender fouling him any favours.

Referees need to start actually blowing for fouls instead of thinking that it's not a penalty unless a player goes to ground. It was obviously a foul by Ryan and that strange rule about fouls outside and then inside the box means that he was correct to give a penalty. I just loathe that Suarez stayed on his feet until he was in the box to chuck himself at the floor. In fact, I'd encourage referees to actually give the penalties for fouls like that if the forward makes an honest attempt to stay up, but if he chucks himself at the floor then it's a yellow card for diving and a free-kick.

From a Sun article dated 12 Jan 2011...

BLACKPOOL have been given a shock message by World Cup final referee Howard Webb — they are too honest for their own good. Webb said the Seasiders’ refusal to go down in tackles made it difficult for refs to award them fouls.

And he has told them to start hitting the turf more often. Ian Evatt, the most effective defender in the country according to Premier League statistics, admitted that was a real eye-opener.

He explained: “Howard Webb was here to go over some refereeing decisions. And he told us where we were going wrong.

He spoke to me about why I didn’t get a foul against Manchester City when Tevez caught me on the edge of the box. He said I was too honest and stayed on my feet. He said if I had gone down it would make the decision easier to give. In that respect, we are too naive. Most of us have come through the Championship, a mostly honest game so to speak. Honest as in you do your best to stay on your feet and try to continue playing.

In the Premier League, if you fall over you tend to get decisions.

We are not going to play-act, but we have to be less naive and go down under a challenge. Not make a meal of it, but show there’s a foul.”

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2012 23:54:37 GMT Olgrligm said:

Dec 27, 2012 11:54:03 GMT @robvandeurzen83 said:

But a defender holding the shirt and getting away with it because of the honesty of the striker is cheating going unpunished too isn't it? Why should a striker being fouled go out of his way to do a defender fouling him any favours.

Referees need to start actually blowing for fouls instead of thinking that it's not a penalty unless a player goes to ground. It was obviously a foul by Ryan and that strange rule about fouls outside and then inside the box means that he was correct to give a penalty. I just loathe that Suarez stayed on his feet until he was in the box to chuck himself at the floor. In fact, I'd encourage referees to actually give the penalties for fouls like that if the forward makes an honest attempt to stay up, but if he chucks himself at the floor then it's a yellow card for diving and a free-kick.

The ref only has one chance to see it though MD. He needs all the help he can get.