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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 12:15:14 GMT
He's on about our last game against Man Utd. Daft cu....... The one we lost 4 - 2??
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 22, 2012 12:15:55 GMT
That's the one.
Glad you got there in the end flower.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 22, 2012 12:16:31 GMT
If you're going to "pick out moments in games", you could at least do it properly. If you're going to pick me up on something you could at least have a vague working knowledge of our season so far. Wasn't just me thinking that then?! ;D
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 12:17:59 GMT
That's the one. Glad you got there in the end flower. Proud of that defeat, are we? Now I understand why you and so many others are happy with the way we are progressing!!
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 22, 2012 12:19:02 GMT
You're missing the point Chris.
Have you got any crayons? I'll draw you a pretty picture.
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 12:21:36 GMT
I'm exactly on point, but you're too tunnel-visioned (I hesitate to say "stupid") to see it.
There are some on here who look at that defeat to United and feel proud that we apparently did a fantastic job, yet criticise the team that went away to Valencia, played a fantastic game and lost 1 - 0.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 22, 2012 12:22:43 GMT
Like I thought, you are missing the point.
Sheikh pointed to the fact that we played very well against Man Utd at Old Trafford, especially first half, and ended up scoring 2 goals.
If you want to ignore that then fair enough, but it is pretty relevant to the debate on this thread.
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Post by y2j on Nov 22, 2012 12:24:55 GMT
Bloody hell this is a debate.
Jones has pace, but how often does he use it? As we all know he can be superb, but is more likely to have the attitude of not caring, and being lazy.
The ideal formation is 4-4-2 with someone alongside Crouch (Jerome / Owen), with 2 wingers. It's not going to happen though is it.
I understand that we have concerns about Crouch not having the pace and being isolated, but with 1 up top, you need someone to hold the ball (as we often have 40yrd punts forward), something Crouch does better than anyone. It is then down to him laying it off to Adam / Whelan etc who can then play balls out to wide men. Problem is it's Walters outwide and again he's not a winger.
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 12:26:45 GMT
Like I thought, you are missing the point. Sheikh pointed to the fact that we played very well against Man Utd at Old Trafford, especially first half, and ended up scoring 2 goals. If you want to ignore that then fair enough, but it is pretty relevant to the debate on this thread. Actually, we scored one goal and Rooney scored one for us. I do not agree that "we played very well". My view was that United were very poor. That view seems to have been shared by all of the popular press, but take whatever consolation out of that game as will make your life cheery!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2012 12:26:49 GMT
Like I thought, you are missing the point. Sheikh pointed to the fact that we played very well against Man Utd at Old Trafford, especially first half, and ended up scoring 2 goals. If you want to ignore that then fair enough, but it is pretty relevant to the debate on this thread. i think we did ok in spells against utd but lets face it, one of our goals was an OG and the kightly goal was a total fluke, he just put his head down and ran and somehow the ball bounced off the defender and landed for him nicely. they scored 4 goals and we were very poor for most of the second half i don't think the performance was a particularly good one, nor will it be one i proudly recall in the years to come.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 22, 2012 12:26:58 GMT
Like I thought, you are missing the point. Sheikh pointed to the fact that we played very well against Man Utd at Old Trafford, especially first half, and ended up scoring 2 goals. If you want to ignore that then fair enough, but it is pretty relevant to the debate on this thread. Thanks WD. I'd lost the will to live!
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 12:28:36 GMT
Like I thought, you are missing the point. Sheikh pointed to the fact that we played very well against Man Utd at Old Trafford, especially first half, and ended up scoring 2 goals. If you want to ignore that then fair enough, but it is pretty relevant to the debate on this thread. Thanks WD. I'd lost the will to live! Damn!! A little further and we would have had one less idiot in the world!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 22, 2012 12:29:12 GMT
Like I thought, you are missing the point. Sheikh pointed to the fact that we played very well against Man Utd at Old Trafford, especially first half, and ended up scoring 2 goals. If you want to ignore that then fair enough, but it is pretty relevant to the debate on this thread. Actually, we scored one goal and Rooney scored one for us. I do not agree that "we played very well". My view was that United were very poor. That view seems to have been shared by all of the popular press, but take whatever consolation out of that game as will make your life cheery!! Jesus is that how wedded to your blinkered view you are that you start re-writing history that's barely a month old.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 22, 2012 12:29:19 GMT
The OG, Shawcross was immediately behind Rooney, pretty much on the goal line. It was a brilliant ball and although Rooney made a hash of it, he would have done well to head it over from there. Either way, a goal is a goal.
You could start breaking down any goal and saying "if this happened" or "he got lucky there" and de-value it. If my Auntie had bollocks she'd be my Uncle.
The fact is, we played some good stuff and created some good goal scoring opportunites, especially first half. Crouch was in that team too. It is a relevant point to the thread.
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 12:36:28 GMT
The OG, Shawcross was immediately behind Rooney, pretty much on the goal line. It was a brilliant ball and although Rooney made a hash of it, he would have done well to head it over from there. Either way, a goal is a goal. You could start breaking down any goal and saying "if this happened" or "he got lucky there" and de-value it. If my Auntie had bollocks she'd be my Uncle. The fact is, we played some good stuff and created some good goal scoring opportunites, especially first half. Crouch was in that team too. It is a relevant point to the thread. We'll have to agree to differ there. The reality is that United had a bad day and we were unable to take advantage of it. Crouch had little impact. The best comment on that game, from a poster on this board, summed it up for me: "We have absolutely no pace, very little trickery and barely any genuine goal threat. Crouch still looks isolated and hopeless away from home and I am far from convinced with Walters and Kightly in those wide positions."
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 22, 2012 12:38:23 GMT
I think I'll leave it there Chris.
Anybody else have any points to add, preferrably somebody with a decent grasp on the topic in debate and also our Season thus far?
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 12:41:26 GMT
I think I'll leave it there Chris. Anybody else have any points to add, preferrably somebody with a decent grasp on the topic in debate and also our Season thus far? I think you'd better. Your understanding of written English has not improved but I'm sure you're trying!!
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 22, 2012 13:05:59 GMT
why do you think we brought crouch in the first place?kj just wasnt doing it for us. having said that i would like to see him coming on in the last 30 mins to have a run at tired legs? I.. WHAT?! I'm sorry, but that is one of the shittest post I've seen on this board. KJ wasn't doing it for us? It's not like he started up front for us when we got to the FA Cup final and played some of the best football we've played in years. Jesus Christ mate.. I think some people will not like Kenwynne no matter what he does. I, personally, think he is ideal for us as we need pace up front with us playing a counter-attacking style at present. I thought we played some really good stuff against West Ham, and Adam, N'Zonzi were really impressive. I would play either Jones and Walters or Jones and Jerome up top. Trouble is, Tone would have to justify dropping Crouch.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 22, 2012 13:24:22 GMT
davejohnno you are exactly correct.We either need some pace around Crouch or pace in the place of Crouch. As it is goalscoring from open play seems almost impossible. I agree about Crouch's lack of pace; it has cost us several times recently. If someone plays a ball anywhere other than right at his feet, he can't make up ground to get to it. Also, when opposing defenders pass back to the goalkeeper, he can't chase the keeper down.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2012 13:36:57 GMT
You have to agree, Jones has more of a tendency towards laziness; FFS how many times is he meandering back and unable to join in the play due to being offside?
Furthermore, for someone his size, he does appear to get shoved off the ball very easily; he needs a few training sessions in with Huthy & Swawcross to get him to man-up.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 22, 2012 13:39:20 GMT
Bloody hell this is a debate. Jones has pace, but how often does he use it? As we all know he can be superb, but is more likely to have the attitude of not caring, and being lazy. The ideal formation is 4-4-2 with someone alongside Crouch (Jerome / Owen), with 2 wingers. It's not going to happen though is it. I understand that we have concerns about Crouch not having the pace and being isolated, but with 1 up top, you need someone to hold the ball (as we often have 40yrd punts forward), something Crouch does better than anyone. It is then down to him laying it off to Adam / Whelan etc who can then play balls out to wide men. Problem is it's Walters outwide and again he's not a winger. Once would be more than Crouch ever could.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 22, 2012 13:42:37 GMT
I think I'll leave it there Chris. Anybody else have any points to add, preferrably somebody with a decent grasp on the topic in debate and also our Season thus far? I have to agree with you, we played well, unfortunately our usually solid back four didn't turn up.
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Post by y2j on Nov 22, 2012 13:53:22 GMT
Is Jones really as quick as we all like to think? Granted, compared to Crouch, he's a winner everytime, but I wouldn't say he's quick?!?!
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Post by foster on Nov 22, 2012 14:13:43 GMT
Is Jones really as quick as we all like to think? Granted, compared to Crouch, he's a winner everytime, but I wouldn't say he's quick?!?! According to some he's as quick as Bolt himself. Personally, I prefer to think of him as a little less slow in pace and a little more slow in reaction/reflex speed to Crouch. He's definitely not quick.
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 14:34:30 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 22, 2012 14:39:15 GMT
There is no doubt about Jone's attributes, it's his ability or willingness to use them or get the best out of himself that is up for debate.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2012 14:39:53 GMT
i presume you are aware that the bleacher report is written by one bloke and his personal opinions rather than any kind of fact whatseover aren't you?
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 14:43:14 GMT
i presume you are aware that the bleacher report is written by one bloke and his personal opinions rather than any kind of fact whatseover aren't you? I wasn't aware, to be honest, and that may well be true. Similarly, I'm not sure whether the "The sprint parade top 10, commissioned by Nike and put together by Opta Sportsdata" is any more reliable, but there you have it.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 22, 2012 14:45:49 GMT
So Jones is quicker than Jerome?
That very well may be true; we've never seen the evidence during both their respective times at Stoke mind.
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Post by chr15 on Nov 22, 2012 14:48:04 GMT
So Jones is quicker than Jerome? That very well may be true; we've never seen the evidence during both their respective times at Stoke mind. Based on what we've seen at Stoke, I would have thought that Jerome was quicker. I guess that the articles I referred to above need to be taken with a (very large) pinch of salt!
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