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Post by Trouserdog on Nov 10, 2012 21:23:18 GMT
Pretending that an outgoing loan and an injury hadn't happened, do you think this side would stand a better chance of getting a result at West Ham than the team TP will put out?
Begovic
Wilko
Shawcross
Huth
Wilson
Pennant
Whelan
whitehead
Etherington
Walters
Jones
I think it would. The point? All these players were part of the 2011 side that played the most exciting football I've ever seen from a Stoke City side. All of them are still on our books.
This was the platform that TP had to build on after the cup final. Since then he has spent £34m taking us backwards. Of the signings that he's made since- how many of them are an improvement on their equivalent in that team?
I'd say one for definite...Steven N'Zonzi. Geoff Cameron could also make it.
Ok, we've needed squad players as back up- Upson was a good free transfer and I think for £2m, Kightly is a decent piece of business.
It takes some very, very poor management though to spend so much money on something only to make it worse. I also hope the deluded optimists who have spent the last 2 years crapping on about how each and every signing would herald an evolution in tactics and approach now accept that they were talking bollocks and that TP does not know how to alter from 4-4-1-1. How many players have we seen this happen with now? How much money spent on these players? And how many more will there be?
One thing is for cetain though: despite today's jammy and undeserved win, this dogs dinner of a team we're watching can't continue. Even if we don't end up being relegated, then we'll all be bored to fucking death by May instead.
Stick to 4-4-1-1 Tone. It's what you know and what you were once good at. But now's the time to be ruthless and make some bold decisions. If players don't fit the blueprint, they have to go. Your problem is that I think you've long forgotten what the blueprint actually looks like.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Nov 10, 2012 21:25:26 GMT
we massively miss a certain forward. I won;t name him as it will bring out the usual diullards and know-nowts.
Would love for us to have ONE player I could get excited about watching (in an attacking sense). Stoke's attack is simply an attack-by-numbers paintet, and painfully dull to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:27:35 GMT
we massively miss a certain forward. I won;t name him as it will bring out the usual diullards and know-nowts. Would love for us to have ONE player I could get excited about watching (in an attacking sense). Stoke's attack is simply an attack-by-numbers paintet, and painfully dull to watch. Kitson? |
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Post by StokieMatt on Nov 10, 2012 21:28:41 GMT
we massively miss a certain forward. I won;t name him as it will bring out the usual diullards and know-nowts. Would love for us to have ONE player I could get excited about watching (in an attacking sense). Stoke's attack is simply an attack-by-numbers paintet, and painfully dull to watch. only one i can think off is tunny, and thats only because people on here wank over him... personally think he was shite ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:33:01 GMT
Pretending that an outgoing loan and an injury hadn't happened, do you think this side would stand a better chance of getting a result at West Ham than the team TP will put out? Begovic Wilko Shawcross Huth Wilson Pennant Whelan whitehead Etherington Walters Jones I think it would. The point? All these players were part of the 2011 side that played the most exciting football I've ever seen from a Stoke City side. All of them are still on our books. This was the platform that TP had to build on after the cup final. Since then he has spent £34m taking us backwards. Of the signings that he's made since- how many of them are an improvement on their equivalent in that team? I'd say one for definite...Steven N'Zonzi. Geoff Cameron could also make it. Ok, we've needed squad players as back up- Upson was a good free transfer and I think for £2m, Kightly is a decent piece of business. It takes some very, very poor management though to spend so much money on something only to make it worse. I also hope the deluded optimists who have spent the last 2 years crapping on about how each and every signing would herald an evolution in tactics and approach now accept that they were talking bollocks and that TP does not know how to alter from 4-4-1-1. How many players have we seen this happen with now? How much money spent on these players? And how many more will there be? One thing is for cetain though: despite today's jammy and undeserved win, this dogs dinner of a team we're watching can't continue. Even if we don't end up being relegated, then we'll all be bored to fucking death by May instead. Stick to 4-4-1-1 Tone. It's what you know and what you were once good at. But now's the time to be ruthless and make some bold decisions. If players don't fit the blueprint, they have to go. Your problem is that I think you've long forgotten what the blueprint actually looks like. Agree with most of that, Can't see us going down though. But it begs the question to be asked was there anything wrong with the way we played then? So many despised it on here. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:34:59 GMT
we massively miss a certain forward. I won;t name him as it will bring out the usual diullards and know-nowts. Would love for us to have ONE player I could get excited about watching (in an attacking sense). Stoke's attack is simply an attack-by-numbers paintet, and painfully dull to watch. I was saying this on the way be in the car, we need a Ricardo Fuller, some unpredictability, some magic, flair. |
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Post by march4 on Nov 10, 2012 21:36:50 GMT
we massively miss a certain forward. I won;t name him as it will bring out the usual diullards and know-nowts. Would love for us to have ONE player I could get excited about watching (in an attacking sense). Stoke's attack is simply an attack-by-numbers paintet, and painfully dull to watch. I was saying this on the way be in the car, we need a Ricardo Fuller, some unpredictability, some magic, flair. BT/Ric has still been our best front 2 since promotion, closely followed by Mama/Ric. I wonder what the common denominator is?? |
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Post by Trouserdog on Nov 10, 2012 21:38:52 GMT
There was nobody complaining during that spell. Even Jarhead was gushing in his praise for TP!
It was direct, but it had purpose and was exciting to watch.
We absolutely tore arsenal to bits down here only the week before we were at wembley, and had also handed a 4-0 spanking to Newcastle. Even when we were beaten 2-3 at Tottenham, we gave it a right go and 99% of people were happy with what we were doing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:39:42 GMT
we knew we would miss him didn't we?
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Post by march4 on Nov 10, 2012 21:41:05 GMT
There was nobody complaining during that spell. Even Jarhead was gushing in his praise for TP! It was direct, but it had purpose and was exciting to watch. We absolutely tore arsenal to bits down here only the week before we were at wembley, and had also handed a 4-0 spanking to Newcastle. Even when we were beaten 2-3 at Tottenham, we gave it a right go and 99% of people were happy with what we were doing. They didn't half moan about the defeat at Wham that heralded this golden run of form.  |
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 10, 2012 21:41:57 GMT
The problems all started last summer.
We needed an improvement on Walters and we got an idle, brainless man who runs fast.
We needed a back-up for Jones as we were short on striker cover and we brought in an undroppable transfer record breaking misfit.
We needed a replacement for the ageing Delap and got a young man in the physical condition of a man twice Rory's age.
We needed a versatile full-back and we got a has-been crock.
We did get a decent back-up for the centre-back position in Upson, though.
We did a bit better this summer, bringing in a superb central midfielder and an unheard of American who seems to be a bit of a revelation, but the fundamental problems are still there. Our main two sources of the set pieces that we thrive off in recent years have been the long throws and Ricardo Fuller. Despite having two players who can chuck the ball on the pitch, we've decided not to bother because it's somehow symbolic of 'evolution' and we persist with those awful short throws that just hand possession back to the opposition. We've given Fuller a free transfer and replaced him with a man who doesn't fit and whose fitness levels are non-existent. Ultimately, the lack of movement, strength and sheer power up front is costing us, as we just look so slow and static going forward time after time.
TP is perfectly capable of taking us forwards, but he needs to stop trying to reinvent his formula and going backwards. He's going to have to bite the bullet with Crouch, despite all of the obvious massive problems surrounding that. Today was the past year in a nutshell. Crouch had a perfectly good time of it individually. He won lots in the air and usually had the beating of his marker with the balls from the back. However, we had absolutely nothing going forward and, mysteriously, as soon as Jones came on we were much more of a force up front. For now I'd go back to a straight 4-4-1-1, with Jones leading the line.
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Post by Trouserdog on Nov 10, 2012 21:42:06 GMT
we knew we would miss him didn't we? Yes, so that's why we have to sign a proper replacement for him. A player who can do the kind of stuff that Ric could- stuff that actually made our unique system work. |
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Post by bunnyscfc on Nov 10, 2012 21:43:25 GMT
The problems all started last summer. We needed an improvement on Walters and we got an idle, brainless man who runs fast. We needed a back-up for Jones as we were short on striker cover and we brought in an undroppable transfer record breaking misfit. We needed a replacement for the ageing Delap and got a young man in the physical condition of a man twice Rory's age. We needed a versatile full-back and we got a has-been crock. We did get a decent back-up for the centre-back position in Upson, though. We did a bit better this summer, bringing in a superb central midfielder and an unheard of American who seems to be a bit of a revelation, but the fundamental problems are still there. Our main two sources of the set pieces that we thrive off in recent years have been the long throws and Ricardo Fuller. Despite having two players who can chuck the ball on the pitch, we've decided not to bother because it's somehow symbolic of 'evolution' and we persist with those awful short throws that just hand possession back to the opposition. We've given Fuller a free transfer and replaced him with a man who doesn't fit and whose fitness levels are non-existent. Ultimately, the lack of movement, strength and sheer power up front is costing us, as we just look so slow and static going forward time after time. TP is perfectly capable of taking us forwards, but he needs to stop trying to reinvent his formula and going backwards. He's going to have to bite the bullet with Crouch, despite all of the obvious massive problems surrounding that. Today was the past year in a nutshell. Crouch had a perfectly good time of it individually. He won lots in the air and usually had the beating of his marker with the balls from the back. However, we had absolutely nothing going forward and, mysteriously, as soon as Jones came on we were much more of a force up front. For now I'd go back to a straight 4-4-1-1, with Jones leading the line. brilliant post |
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Post by peterthornesboots on Nov 10, 2012 21:44:26 GMT
we massively miss a certain forward. I won;t name him as it will bring out the usual diullards and know-nowts. Would love for us to have ONE player I could get excited about watching (in an attacking sense). Stoke's attack is simply an attack-by-numbers paintet, and painfully dull to watch. Stop clinging to the past Bunny |
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Post by spongebobflathead on Nov 10, 2012 21:47:14 GMT
A system so rigid that was incredibly reliant on our wingers that worked for a short spell mainly due to sensational form of our two wide men !
Yes it was great to watch but couldnt last and didn't ! Simple !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:48:00 GMT
we knew we would miss him didn't we? Yes, so that's why we have to sign a proper replacement for him. A player who can do the kind of stuff that Ric could- stuff that actually made our unique system work. And we signed Michael Owen. A player least sited to our unique system...... so change the system or continue with a manager that is starstruck on players that don't suit us. Ps, I know Owen did not play today. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:49:07 GMT
The problems all started last summer. We needed an improvement on Walters and we got an idle, brainless man who runs fast. We needed a back-up for Jones as we were short on striker cover and we brought in an undroppable transfer record breaking misfit. We needed a replacement for the ageing Delap and got a young man in the physical condition of a man twice Rory's age. We needed a versatile full-back and we got a has-been crock. We did get a decent back-up for the centre-back position in Upson, though. We did a bit better this summer, bringing in a superb central midfielder and an unheard of American who seems to be a bit of a revelation, but the fundamental problems are still there. Our main two sources of the set pieces that we thrive off in recent years have been the long throws and Ricardo Fuller. Despite having two players who can chuck the ball on the pitch, we've decided not to bother because it's somehow symbolic of 'evolution' and we persist with those awful short throws that just hand possession back to the opposition. We've given Fuller a free transfer and replaced him with a man who doesn't fit and whose fitness levels are non-existent. Ultimately, the lack of movement, strength and sheer power up front is costing us, as we just look so slow and static going forward time after time. TP is perfectly capable of taking us forwards, but he needs to stop trying to reinvent his formula and going backwards. He's going to have to bite the bullet with Crouch, despite all of the obvious massive problems surrounding that. Today was the past year in a nutshell. Crouch had a perfectly good time of it individually. He won lots in the air and usually had the beating of his marker with the balls from the back. However, we had absolutely nothing going forward and, mysteriously, as soon as Jones came on we were much more of a force up front. For now I'd go back to a straight 4-4-1-1, with Jones leading the line. Brilliant post. However I am not sure TP can take us forwards anymore. |
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Post by barmystokie1 on Nov 10, 2012 21:51:53 GMT
The problems all started last summer. We needed an improvement on Walters and we got an idle, brainless man who runs fast. We needed a back-up for Jones as we were short on striker cover and we brought in an undroppable transfer record breaking misfit. We needed a replacement for the ageing Delap and got a young man in the physical condition of a man twice Rory's age. We needed a versatile full-back and we got a has-been crock. We did get a decent back-up for the centre-back position in Upson, though. We did a bit better this summer, bringing in a superb central midfielder and an unheard of American who seems to be a bit of a revelation, but the fundamental problems are still there. Our main two sources of the set pieces that we thrive off in recent years have been the long throws and Ricardo Fuller. Despite having two players who can chuck the ball on the pitch, we've decided not to bother because it's somehow symbolic of 'evolution' and we persist with those awful short throws that just hand possession back to the opposition. We've given Fuller a free transfer and replaced him with a man who doesn't fit and whose fitness levels are non-existent. Ultimately, the lack of movement, strength and sheer power up front is costing us, as we just look so slow and static going forward time after time. TP is perfectly capable of taking us forwards, but he needs to stop trying to reinvent his formula and going backwards. He's going to have to bite the bullet with Crouch, despite all of the obvious massive problems surrounding that. Today was the past year in a nutshell. Crouch had a perfectly good time of it individually. He won lots in the air and usually had the beating of his marker with the balls from the back. However, we had absolutely nothing going forward and, mysteriously, as soon as Jones came on we were much more of a force up front. For now I'd go back to a straight 4-4-1-1, with Jones leading the line. Spot on mate! I think you have to be a serious happy clapper to not be concerned about how we are playing. It is so ineffective it isn't funny. "No pace, No skill, no imagination, No shots hardly". I am very worried and Pulis needs to take a long hard look at himself and forget about Opta stats for a second and decide who is actually worthy of a place in the team, based on form and not reputation. |
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Post by peterthornesboots on Nov 10, 2012 21:52:42 GMT
Yes, so that's why we have to sign a proper replacement for him. A player who can do the kind of stuff that Ric could- stuff that actually made our unique system work. And we signed Michael Owen. A player least sited to our unique system...... so change the system or continue with a manager that is starstruck on players that don't suit us. Ps, I know Owen did not play today. Why didn't Owen play though? Why have we got a natural goal scorer warming the bench when we need goals? I've been one of Pulis's biggest supporters but I honestly don't think he knows what to do with the players we have at the moment. I don't get the impression that he knows what system to use! |
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Post by march4 on Nov 10, 2012 21:53:40 GMT
The problems all started last summer. We needed an improvement on Walters and we got an idle, brainless man who runs fast. We needed a back-up for Jones as we were short on striker cover and we brought in an undroppable transfer record breaking misfit. We needed a replacement for the ageing Delap and got a young man in the physical condition of a man twice Rory's age. We needed a versatile full-back and we got a has-been crock. We did get a decent back-up for the centre-back position in Upson, though. We did a bit better this summer, bringing in a superb central midfielder and an unheard of American who seems to be a bit of a revelation, but the fundamental problems are still there. Our main two sources of the set pieces that we thrive off in recent years have been the long throws and Ricardo Fuller. Despite having two players who can chuck the ball on the pitch, we've decided not to bother because it's somehow symbolic of 'evolution' and we persist with those awful short throws that just hand possession back to the opposition. We've given Fuller a free transfer and replaced him with a man who doesn't fit and whose fitness levels are non-existent. Ultimately, the lack of movement, strength and sheer power up front is costing us, as we just look so slow and static going forward time after time. TP is perfectly capable of taking us forwards, but he needs to stop trying to reinvent his formula and going backwards. He's going to have to bite the bullet with Crouch, despite all of the obvious massive problems surrounding that. Today was the past year in a nutshell. Crouch had a perfectly good time of it individually. He won lots in the air and usually had the beating of his marker with the balls from the back. However, we had absolutely nothing going forward and, mysteriously, as soon as Jones came on we were much more of a force up front. For now I'd go back to a straight 4-4-1-1, with Jones leading the line. Brilliant post. However I am not sure TP can take us forwards anymore. It doesn't matter if we can't see how TP is going to maintain the progress, because that is TP's job. As today's Oatie magazine says, TP will probably still be our manager in another 10 years' time. If that is true, then we must still be doing well. |
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Post by Trouserdog on Nov 10, 2012 21:55:04 GMT
A system so rigid that was incredibly reliant on our wingers that worked for a short spell mainly due to sensational form of our two wide men ! Yes it was great to watch but couldnt last and didn't ! Simple ! Sorry, but that's rubbish. The system worked because it had the right kinds of players in the right positions. It needed 2 on-form wingers-correct. So, why didn't we sign another winger who could rotate/replace the others if they were off-form? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:55:50 GMT
And we signed Michael Owen. A player least sited to our unique system...... so change the system or continue with a manager that is starstruck on players that don't suit us. Ps, I know Owen did not play today. Why didn't Owen play though? Why have we got a natural goal scorer warming the bench when we need goals? I've been one of Pulis's biggest supporters but I honestly don't think he knows what to do with the players we have at the moment. I don't get the impression that he knows what system to use! Injured hopefully back for wetspam |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 21:56:05 GMT
And we signed Michael Owen. A player least sited to our unique system...... so change the system or continue with a manager that is starstruck on players that don't suit us. Ps, I know Owen did not play today. Why didn't Owen play though? Why have we got a natural goal scorer warming the bench when we need goals? I've been one of Pulis's biggest supporters but I honestly don't think he knows what to do with the players we have at the moment. I don't get the impression that he knows what system to use! He doesn't know what to do does he? You are right, all these players and he hasn't got the fo.ggiest how to deploy them |
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Post by peterthornesboots on Nov 10, 2012 21:56:55 GMT
A system so rigid that was incredibly reliant on our wingers that worked for a short spell mainly due to sensational form of our two wide men ! Yes it was great to watch but couldnt last and didn't ! Simple ! Sorry, but that's rubbish. The system worked because it had the right kinds of players in the right positions. It needed 2 on-form wingers-correct. So, why didn't we sign another winger who could rotate/replace the others if they were off-form? Well we signed Knightly ... ... and then got rid of Pennant ... ... but it's ok because we have Charlie Adam as our new flying winger! |
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Post by spongebobflathead on Nov 10, 2012 22:06:20 GMT
A system so rigid that was incredibly reliant on our wingers that worked for a short spell mainly due to sensational form of our two wide men ! Yes it was great to watch but couldnt last and didn't ! Simple ! Sorry, but that's rubbish. The system worked because it had the right kinds of players in the right positions. It needed 2 on-form wingers-correct. So, why didn't we sign another winger who could rotate/replace the others if they were off-form? Simple , cos back up wingers don't guarantee the form would improve ( that's why IMHO the call for back wingers in previous transfer windows as an absolute must ) was complete nonsense and neglected the more pressing issue of a progressive midfielder ! The irony is we now have those midfielders but mysteriously neglected the wide positions ! |
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Post by peterthornesboots on Nov 10, 2012 22:08:47 GMT
Why didn't Owen play though? Why have we got a natural goal scorer warming the bench when we need goals? I've been one of Pulis's biggest supporters but I honestly don't think he knows what to do with the players we have at the moment. I don't get the impression that he knows what system to use! He doesn't know what to do does he? You are right, all these players and he hasn't got the fo.ggiest how to deploy them I agree completely We seemed to have signed these "big names" without really having a plan of what we're going to do with them. |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Nov 10, 2012 22:10:06 GMT
Really I seem to remember that season ending on a low note, culminating in a home loss to Wigan. If Kenwynne is the saviour it is odd how much stick he receives on this board and from the fans.
We shoudln't let the facts get in the way of opinion but Ric scored 7 goals in 76 appearances over the last 3 seasons after 11 in 34 in our first season back. Without doubt he was vital in this first year but he was a spent force at the top level when he left.
Meanwhile the average standard of the Premiership has improved and we stand 12th tonight after a relatively tough start and have produced our best performances at Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool since promotion, haven't lost at home since February, have th ebest defence and midfield since promotion and choices in attack. Work to be done but the team we will pick will have more chance of winning at West Ham than in May 2011, I seem to recall we lost 3-0 there in Feb 2011 with a team like the one suggested
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Post by Trouserdog on Nov 10, 2012 22:17:44 GMT
Really I seem to remember that season ending on a low note, culminating in a home loss to Wigan. If Kenwynne is the saviour it is odd how much stick he receives on this board and from the fans. We shoudln't let the facts get in the way of opinion but Ric scored 7 goals in 76 appearances over the last 3 seasons after 11 in 34 in our first season back. Without doubt he was vital in this first year but he was a spent force at the top level when he left. Meanwhile the average standard of the Premiership has improved and we stand 12th tonight after a relatively tough start and have produced our best performances at Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool since promotion, haven't lost at home since February, have th ebest defence and midfield since promotion and choices in attack. Work to be done but the team we will pick will have more chance of winning at West Ham than in May 2011, I seem to recall we lost 3-0 there in Feb 2011 with a team like the one suggested The team had run out of gas for those last 2 games- the players were physically and emotionally spent, and we had a very small squad, quality wise. Up until the cup final we were electric. The side that lost 0-3 at west ham contained Danny Pugh at left back. No more to add. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 10, 2012 22:21:42 GMT
Really I seem to remember that season ending on a low note, culminating in a home loss to Wigan. If Kenwynne is the saviour it is odd how much stick he receives on this board and from the fans. We shoudln't let the facts get in the way of opinion but Ric scored 7 goals in 76 appearances over the last 3 seasons after 11 in 34 in our first season back. Without doubt he was vital in this first year but he was a spent force at the top level when he left. Meanwhile the average standard of the Premiership has improved and we stand 12th tonight after a relatively tough start and have produced our best performances at Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool since promotion, haven't lost at home since February, have th ebest defence and midfield since promotion and choices in attack. Work to be done but the team we will pick will have more chance of winning at West Ham than in May 2011, I seem to recall we lost 3-0 there in Feb 2011 with a team like the one suggested The team had run out of gas for those last 2 games- the players were physically and emotionally spent, and we had a very small squad, quality wise. Up until the cup final we were electric. The side that lost 0-3 at west ham contained Danny Pugh at left back. No more to add. Oh, the time when we dabbled in backwards 'evolution' before. Let's start passing it out from the back through the full-backs. What a horrible, horrible month that was. |
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Post by spongebobflathead on Nov 10, 2012 22:29:10 GMT
How many games up until the final were we "electric" trouser ?
, I enjoy reading your posts and look forward to seeing them and not trying to be pedantic but there seems to be a common misconception that we need to arc back to a very brief period of our history that was relatively successful but hardly proven !
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