|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 7, 2012 16:21:06 GMT
despite a steady start to his stoke career, i dont think we've seen anywhere near what he's capable of.....and until we play him in a deeper role i dont think we will.
our performances to date though have meant we cant really change it round as why fix something that isnt broke.
however if whelan's injury forces him to miss the next game or two, i would consider moving Adam into the deeper role alongside N'zonzi, with either kightly or walters playing the advanced midfielder role, with etherington or jerome coming back into the side to play in the wide role.
this would hopefully bring the better of Adam out, allowing him to dictate play more and get involved in the early stages of attacks.
it would add a bit more movement and energy in the link up roll between crouch and the midfield, whilst injecting a bit more pace out wide with jerome or ethers.
i think a switch to this may see us become even more free flowing and offer a more potent attacking threat.
harsh on Whelan though, because the last 3/4 games have been amongst the best and most consistent in a stoke shirt.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2012 16:24:01 GMT
Well said, and im beginning do my own head in by keep saying it, adam as never played as a second striker, and he looks lost playing that role
|
|
|
|
Post by jarhead on Oct 7, 2012 16:25:00 GMT
Totally wasted in the position he's been shoved into by Dulis just so he can play walters!!!
He need to be deeper dictating play and get his passing game going but no Dulis wants runners first!
|
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 7, 2012 16:25:35 GMT
Adam would look more effective imo if we had more mobility up front. hes being played in a position where he gets no time on the ball.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 7, 2012 16:25:51 GMT
I think Pulis will ruin Adam because he simply doesn't have the balls to play him where he will be effective, Adam cannot play off the striker it's just not his game.
We have to get some pace into our forward line and help Crouch out or we will have trouble scoring goals.
|
|
|
|
Post by stokiejack on Oct 7, 2012 16:45:24 GMT
I don't think we will see the of him and our current system until we are out of this sticky patch of games. The Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U games will be very defensive restricting our play. When we get these out of the way and start playing lower end teams I think we will see the style really take shape, and Adam will be at the heart of it!
|
|
|
|
Post by stokiedj on Oct 7, 2012 16:50:52 GMT
Personally id go with owen and crouch upfront with 442 nzonzi and adam cm but adam sitting deep. Kightly was terrible again today, how the hell does he get the nod over pennant?
|
|
|
|
Post by Championship Potter on Oct 7, 2012 17:04:28 GMT
Even if we did play him deeper, which I think would help, who is he going to play his hollywood passes to? None of our players have the pace to make runs in behind so one of Adam's main attributes is wasted.
|
|
|
|
Post by cyprus1stokey on Oct 7, 2012 17:05:09 GMT
Why do we play Walters right wing midfield and Adam supporting Crouch, it should be the other way round shouldnt it??
|
|
|
|
Post by PotterLog on Oct 7, 2012 17:14:58 GMT
The one time Adam found himself on the ball just outside our own box today, he hit a great pass forward which Walters almost got onto.
Everybody in football knows where Adam's strengths lie. Apart, it seems, from our esteemed manager...
|
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on Oct 7, 2012 17:22:03 GMT
I really hope we haven't seen the best of Charlie Adam.
|
|
|
|
Post by mailman44 on Oct 7, 2012 20:56:57 GMT
In Adam we trust. Unleash the beast.!
|
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 7, 2012 21:02:59 GMT
I think this steady start is a bit generous to be honest.
He looked excellent against Wigan but has been decidedly average since. He looks cumbersome, heavy legged and lacking in confidence.
His tackling leaves a lot to be desired as well. It is often late and regularly over the top of the ball. He made several bad challenges today and was lucky not to be booked earlier than he was.
To me he is struggling and he has been rightly subbed in each of the last 3 games. Hopefully he will get better but for me, I have been totally underwhelmed by both Adam and Kightly to date.
|
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 7, 2012 21:26:09 GMT
Totally wasted in the position he's been shoved into by Dulis just so he can play walters!!! He need to be deeper dictating play and get his passing game going but no Dulis wants runners first! Its got nothing to do with him wanting to play Walters, its to do with him wanting to play Whelan, and who can blame him hes been playing well so far. I agree with the OP, although it would be harsh on Whelan it would be best for the team that Adam drops back and Walters plays the role Adam currently is, also this would open it up for Pennant to get a chance. |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 7, 2012 21:32:33 GMT
Whelan is playing miles better than Adam so how do you work that one out?
Whenever Adam has found himself in those deeper midfield positions, he has been a complete liability and given the ball away in dangerous areas.
He did it again today, twice, much to the clear annoyance of Pulis on the touchline.
Adam is a bit of a quandary right now in my opinion as he isn't playing well enough to justify his place in the team. He is in the team on previous reputation rather than his performances in a Stoke shirt right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on Oct 7, 2012 22:01:53 GMT
Whelan is playing miles better than Adam so how do you work that one out? Whenever Adam has found himself in those deeper midfield positions, he has been a complete liability and given the ball away in dangerous areas. He did it again today, twice, much to the clear annoyance of Pulis on the touchline. Adam is a bit of a quandary right now in my opinion as he isn't playing well enough to justify his place in the team. He is in the team on previous reputation rather than his performances in a Stoke shirt right now. Spot on. |
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Oct 7, 2012 22:09:44 GMT
I don't see Adam working in a midfield two and I wouldn't particularly trust him with the defensive duties that playing deep will entail. I can only see him working in an advanced role where he's got a bit of freedom with regards to his passing duties and two midfielders behind him. That needs the two wide men to push up a bit more so that he's playing more as an attacking midfielder and less as a second forward.
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 8, 2012 23:23:18 GMT
I don't see Adam working in a midfield two and I wouldn't particularly trust him with the defensive duties that playing deep will entail. I can only see him working in an advanced role where he's got a bit of freedom with regards to his passing duties and two midfielders behind him. That needs the two wide men to push up a bit more so that he's playing more as an attacking midfielder and less as a second forward. I agree, I don't see him working in a midfield two either but to be fair, Adam playing in the 'hole' (as he is at the moment) isn't working either. I'm far from convinced that Adam playing behind Crouch, regardless of what the wide men get up to, is going to be the answer to the (long term) offensive issues that we've got. |
|
ned
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
|
Post by ned on Oct 8, 2012 23:51:37 GMT
We are and have been very defensive this season when we were hoping to move on to a more attacking style.
Ugh oh, Tony's put the brakes on. Adam is nowhere near quick enough to play off the striker. Crouch is left winning balls with nowhere to put them.
If our capped wizard has a plan, and he obviously has (as is normal), I've no idea what it is. Other than not losing and building up a momentum just like the very successful teams of the past have done. Namely not losing and being fearsome at home. And, perhaps, getting into the officials heads.
A bit like L/pool,, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal.
They squeal like stuck pigs when they get it back. As we get better we can make 'em squeal even louder.
Negative? "me"?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2012 7:53:49 GMT
I don't see Adam working in a midfield two and I wouldn't particularly trust him with the defensive duties that playing deep will entail. I can only see him working in an advanced role where he's got a bit of freedom with regards to his passing duties and two midfielders behind him. That needs the two wide men to push up a bit more so that he's playing more as an attacking midfielder and less as a second forward. Spot on. If the system is staying as it is he can only play where he's currently playing. Can't see him working in a midfield two, can't see him playing out wide. For what it's worth I think the experiment playing him just off Crouch is worth persevering with. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 9, 2012 9:51:51 GMT
I don't see Adam working in a midfield two and I wouldn't particularly trust him with the defensive duties that playing deep will entail. I can only see him working in an advanced role where he's got a bit of freedom with regards to his passing duties and two midfielders behind him. That needs the two wide men to push up a bit more so that he's playing more as an attacking midfielder and less as a second forward. Spot on. If the system is staying as it is he can only play where he's currently playing. Can't see him working in a midfield two, can't see him playing out wide. For what it's worth I think the experiment playing him just off Crouch is worth persevering with. Rob it's not the position he's playing in that is the problem, but rather our lack of mobility. We are playing with 1 winger and a 6 ft 7 striker. Personally I think we are crying out for Pennant. As anyone who has watched us regularly for the past few years would say, we are nearly always a better side with Pennant on the wing. Or even Jerome. It was interesting that at Wigan we looked as creative as we have done all season when Jerome came on. It's not rocket science is it? If we have more pace on the flanks then Adam will have more options and will be infinitely more effective. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2012 10:03:32 GMT
Spot on. If the system is staying as it is he can only play where he's currently playing. Can't see him working in a midfield two, can't see him playing out wide. For what it's worth I think the experiment playing him just off Crouch is worth persevering with. Rob it's not the position he's playing in that is the problem, but rather our lack of mobility. We are playing with 1 winger and a 6 ft 7 striker. Personally I think we are crying out for Pennant. As anyone who has watched us regularly for the past few years would say, we are nearly always a better side with Pennant on the wing. Or even Jerome. It was interesting that at Wigan we looked as creative as we have done all season when Jerome came on. It's not rocket science is it? If we have more pace on the flanks then Adam will have more options and will be infinitely more effective. I don't disagree Nick, I think pace is badly needed out wide. Pennant is clearly dead to Tony though and I'd be surprised if he played a league game for us again. I'd like to see Jerome instead of Walters provided he could follow instructions - whoever plays there essentially has to do a lot of Adam's running as well as his own, which is why JW is in the team. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 9, 2012 10:13:41 GMT
The biggest plus (by some distance) for me this season has been N'Zonzi, well actually the N'Zonzi/Whelan central midfield partnership - we really seem to have hit on something a bit special.
They both appear to bring the best out in the other player and we look rock solid in the middle when they play together, both players looking assured and confident on the ball.
Do we think if their partnership continues to flourish, then Tone might be tempted to (in at least some games) switch from 4-4-1-1, lose the man in the 'hole' and go with a straight 4-4-2?
Do we really need a man in the hole against (say) Sunderland at home when Whelan and N'Zonzi are playing so well?
It means losing Adam from the starting XI but I really would like to see a 'proper' striker like Owen or Jerome playing right up top alongside Crouch before too long.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pirate on Oct 9, 2012 10:25:33 GMT
The biggest plus (by some distance) for me this season has been N'Zonzi, well actually the N'Zonzi/Whelan central midfield partnership - we really seem to have hit on something a bit special. They both appear to bring the best out in the other player and we look rock solid in the middle when they play together, both players looking assured and confident on the ball. Do we think if their partnership continues to flourish, then Tone might be tempted to (in at least some games) switch from 4-4-1-1, lose the man in the 'hole' and go with a straight 4-4-2? Do we really need a man in the hole against (say) Sunderland at home when Whelan and N'Zonzi are playing so well? It means losing Adam from the starting XI but I really would like to see a 'proper' striker like Owen or Jerome playing right up top alongside Crouch before too long. Exactly what should happen, 4-4-2 at home against the lesser sides. One problem is JW will never get dropped, thus we will always be handicapped going forward! |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 9, 2012 10:25:39 GMT
Rob it's not the position he's playing in that is the problem, but rather our lack of mobility. We are playing with 1 winger and a 6 ft 7 striker. Personally I think we are crying out for Pennant. As anyone who has watched us regularly for the past few years would say, we are nearly always a better side with Pennant on the wing. Or even Jerome. It was interesting that at Wigan we looked as creative as we have done all season when Jerome came on. It's not rocket science is it? If we have more pace on the flanks then Adam will have more options and will be infinitely more effective. I don't disagree Nick, I think pace is badly needed out wide. Pennant is clearly dead to Tony though and I'd be surprised if he played a league game for us again. I'd like to see Jerome instead of Walters provided he could follow instructions - whoever plays there essentially has to do a lot of Adam's running as well as his own, which is why JW is in the team. Yeh its certainly worth a shot. Although we know it wont happen! Although in fairness i've been suprised by Adams work ethic. If nothing else, at Liverpool he put in a lot of work and covered a lot of work. Defensively he didnt do far off what Walters would have done in the same role. I keep repeating myself but it is becoming increasingly frustrating watching Walters ahead of the likes of Pennant and Jerome. Jerome hasnt even done anything wrong off the pitch! He always looks decent when given a run. Especially at old Trafford it would be nice to have a release like Jerome who can chase down a few lost causes with his pace. As I say though, we are kidding ourselves if we think Walters will be dropped within the next few years  (and i'm not even joking) |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 9, 2012 10:31:18 GMT
The biggest plus (by some distance) for me this season has been N'Zonzi, well actually the N'Zonzi/Whelan central midfield partnership - we really seem to have hit on something a bit special. They both appear to bring the best out in the other player and we look rock solid in the middle when they play together, both players looking assured and confident on the ball. Do we think if their partnership continues to flourish, then Tone might be tempted to (in at least some games) switch from 4-4-1-1, lose the man in the 'hole' and go with a straight 4-4-2? Do we really need a man in the hole against (say) Sunderland at home when Whelan and N'Zonzi are playing so well? It means losing Adam from the starting XI but I really would like to see a 'proper' striker like Owen or Jerome playing right up top alongside Crouch before too long. I agree partly Paul. But I dont think dropping Adam is the answer. If Adam is dropped we are basically saying that we are going back to our old ways and whilst Nzonzi has been great, hes not a creative midfielder as such. Adam is the player we've all been craving for years and now we've got him, I dont think because hes been average against City, Chelsea and Liverpool we should be looking to drop him. Hes probably the most talented player we've got. His poor form as i've stressed as massively down to our lack of forward options. Walters essentially plays as a right wing back and Kightly is the only player in our side with pace...we've probably got one of the slowest teams in the football league, and as we saw at Blackpool Adam is a top class player when he has players willing to get forward with pace. The other reason for Adams poor form seems to be nerves/confidence. He looks short on confidence since the Wigan game (we saw glimpses of brilliance against City and Chelsea but not enough). His corners were unplayable a couple of seasons back, worth 10 million alone according to Sir Alex, and he just needs a bit of luck, a goal and he will get that confidence up again. Hes the last player i'd be looking to drop right now imho. As I said when we signed him...if Adams career at Stoke is a failure, then we can consider our "evolution" this season to be a failure. Hes the only creative midfielder we've had since our promotion and we'd be foolish to throw it away because of a couple of disappointing performances (which the system was partly responsible for). |
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Oct 9, 2012 10:33:00 GMT
The biggest plus (by some distance) for me this season has been N'Zonzi, well actually the N'Zonzi/Whelan central midfield partnership - we really seem to have hit on something a bit special. They both appear to bring the best out in the other player and we look rock solid in the middle when they play together, both players looking assured and confident on the ball. Do we think if their partnership continues to flourish, then Tone might be tempted to (in at least some games) switch from 4-4-1-1, lose the man in the 'hole' and go with a straight 4-4-2? Do we really need a man in the hole against (say) Sunderland at home when Whelan and N'Zonzi are playing so well? It means losing Adam from the starting XI but I really would like to see a 'proper' striker like Owen or Jerome playing right up top alongside Crouch before too long. Whenever we lost the extra man in midfield last season - which was pretty much whenever Jerome came on to play up front - we immediately lost a ton of ground and found ourselves on the back foot. That was even the case against the Norwich side that came to the Brit and put in a typical Stoke away performance. I know we have a better pair of central midfielders, but I just don't see it happening if they're both still sitting on the toes of the centre-backs. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 9, 2012 10:33:19 GMT
And lets not forget, Adams average performances have been against 3 of Europes elite ! I'll reserve judgement fully until after we've played Sunderland, West Ham etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Oct 9, 2012 10:38:31 GMT
Paul, surely Jerome up front with Crouch gives us that occasional outlet on the left as well which means (if not Pennant) we could play Kightly wide right but tucking in closer to Crouch when we attack from the left. Adam could then play in a freer role backed up with N'Zonzi and Whelan and he'd have more options to hit. What's not to like or try? Where that leaves Owen though I have no idea.
|
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Oct 9, 2012 10:43:44 GMT
To be honest, I would be looking at playing 4-2-3-1 with Adam playing a similar role that Gerrard played at Liverpool 3/4 years ago.
|
|
