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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 19, 2012 14:02:27 GMT
I'm not denying that someone like Adam is not what we need but any footballer should beable to do do the basics but ours and in particular DW seem to struggle to pass the ball over 5 yards. As I say, I'm not going to disagree with you that his distribution isn't as good as it should be, but I do think he's the most effective central midfielder at the club in terms of what they're required to do under Pulis. He's the first central midfielder on the team sheet as far as I'm concerned. I still clamour for Delap and Whelan for home games. A disturbing thought. Lets hope Cameron and Palacios are as good as most of us seem to think.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 19, 2012 14:03:46 GMT
Agree, Bayern.
I don't think many would be upset at Whitehead going.
But it's unusual for a player in Pulis' inner core, still only about 30, who's a squad fixture and who's had no apparent bust-up with him to be in this contractual situation.
It didn't sound like there were negotiatins either judging from the Sentinel interview with him yesterday where he said it's "not a worry. If you sat around and thought about it, you'd drive yourself mad. Whatever will be, will be"
It's an odd one.
Obviously there won;t be a clamour for someone like him and we can basically keep him dangling - but he normally likes to "look after" his chosen few
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 19, 2012 14:08:42 GMT
Agree, Bayern. I don't think many would be upset at Whitehead going. But it's unusual for a player in Pulis' inner core, still only about 30, who's a squad fixture and who's had no apparent bust-up with him to be in this contractual situation. It didn't sound like there were negotiatins either judging from the Sentinel interview with him yesterday where he said it's "not a worry. If you sat around and thought about it, you'd drive yourself mad. Whatever will be, will be" It's an odd one. Obviously there won;t be a clamour for someone like him and we can basically keep him dangling - but he normally likes to "look after" his chosen few It is strange but I think in his time here TP has shown that he's not scared to drop him. Maybe he thinks he can get better, I don't know!? But I don't get the feeling from how TP has used him that he's been overly happy with him over the years he's been here. I hope so anyway.
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Post by luke45 on Aug 19, 2012 14:11:31 GMT
As I say, I'm not going to disagree with you that his distribution isn't as good as it should be, but I do think he's the most effective central midfielder at the club in terms of what they're required to do under Pulis. He's the first central midfielder on the team sheet as far as I'm concerned. Considering the options that's hardly a glowing recommendation though is it? H It certainly isn't, no. If Palacios could gain full fitness and reproduce the type of form he produced at Wigan and his early years at Spurs then I'd say he should be the first central midfielder on the team sheet, the chances of that happening seem increasingly unlikely though.
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Post by RAF on Aug 19, 2012 14:13:41 GMT
Considering the options that's hardly a glowing recommendation though is it? H It certainly isn't, no. If Palacios could gain full fitness and reproduce the type of form he produced at Wigan and his early years at Spurs then I'd say he should be the first central midfielder on the team sheet, the chances of that happening seem increasingly unlikely though. I'm with you Luke and I hope I'm wrong but Palacios could well be a complete waste of money and time. He could also turn out to be our saviour. H
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Post by denman on Aug 19, 2012 14:15:21 GMT
Whelan Whitehead Shotton Wilkinson Delap Etherington Sidibe (shouldnt even be near a club in top 3 divs)
None of these are good enough for the premier league. Why single out just 2 ?
Wilkinson is 1 of the worst fullbacks I have ever seen play premier league football. He is just popular because he is local and tries to take peoples limbs off. But hey 'gooaaarrn lad'.
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Post by j3st3r on Aug 19, 2012 14:56:27 GMT
We are supposed to be playing with one attacking midfielder (Whelan) and one defensive midfielder (Whitehead).. Dean was poor yesterday, especially given the quality of the opposition, but he's still a better defensive midfielder that Whelan is an attacking one imho...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 19, 2012 14:59:08 GMT
We are supposed to be playing with one attacking midfielder (Whelan) and one defensive midfielder (Whitehead).. Dean was poor yesterday, especially given the quality of the opposition, but he's still a better defensive midfielder that Whelan is an attacking one imho... Whelan is a defensive midfielder. It's what one of the world's best defensive managers (Trappatoni) entrusts him with and it's what he does for us. Defensively I think he's solid but he is meant to be our passer, that's just a joke.
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Post by stackman on Aug 19, 2012 15:21:44 GMT
Whitehead was one of the most consistent performers last season and I think he will be again this season. One bad game and people can't wait to jump on his back. He received 8 yellow cards and 0 red cards in 45 appearances last season, it's hardly the sign of a player who totally lacks discipline and is a liability in his own area is it? . How many goals did he score last season? How many did Whelan score? Quite frankly it's not good enough. There were full backs that scored more goals last season than our midfield pairing
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Post by luke45 on Aug 19, 2012 15:37:10 GMT
Whitehead was one of the most consistent performers last season and I think he will be again this season. One bad game and people can't wait to jump on his back. He received 8 yellow cards and 0 red cards in 45 appearances last season, it's hardly the sign of a player who totally lacks discipline and is a liability in his own area is it? . How many goals did he score last season? How many did Whelan score? Quite frankly it's not good enough. There were full backs that scored more goals last season than our midfield pairing It's rather difficult to score goals when you rarely cross the half-way line under the instructions of your manager. Our central midfielders aren't in the team to support attacks, they're in the team to protect the back-four. Like it or not that is the system we play.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 19, 2012 15:41:05 GMT
Whelan Whitehead Shotton Wilkinson Delap Etherington Sidibe (shouldnt even be near a club in top 3 divs) None of these are good enough for the premier league. Why single out just 2 ? Wilkinson is 1 of the worst fullbacks I have ever seen play premier league football. He is just popular because he is local and tries to take peoples limbs off. But hey 'gooaaarrn lad'. Controversial post mate. One I tend to agree with, bar Ethers, who is plenty good enough.
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Post by dadofsam on Aug 19, 2012 15:43:19 GMT
King of the ITK's Dave said we were going to sign a 'playmaker' like Hudson didn't he - well where the fook is he?
Just how much and how many central midfielders has el cappo brought in and we really are amongst the poorest in the division still.
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Post by letsplay4adraw on Aug 19, 2012 16:09:56 GMT
Imo playing with 2 wingers and 2 defensive midfield players is a luxury no other PL team has. We only need 2 wingers because we don't have full backs who can go down the line (or perhaps they aren't allowed to do it) and get decent crosses in to Crouch & Co.
By setting up the midfield the way TP does, there is no outlet from defence other than the trusted hoooof down field, which more often doesn't find a Stoke player and when it does they are isolated with no midfield support.
And why do we need 2 defensive mid-fielders? Is it because 1 of them on his own isn't good enough or is it lack of ambition to go forward.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2012 16:14:21 GMT
It's a sad state of affairs when anybody can call them decent footballers. Both see the game walk past them week in week out.
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Post by stryker on Aug 19, 2012 18:16:14 GMT
Tone doesn't know what a midfielder is the last decent footballing midfielder Tone signed was John Eustace and seeing him playing for Watford last season he is still better than we've got!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2012 19:29:05 GMT
tripe
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Post by droz on Aug 19, 2012 19:46:09 GMT
As I say, I'm not going to disagree with you that his distribution isn't as good as it should be, but I do think he's the most effective central midfielder at the club in terms of what they're required to do under Pulis. He's the first central midfielder on the team sheet as far as I'm concerned. I still clamour for Delap and Whelan for home games. A disturbing thought. Lets hope Cameron and Palacios are as good as most of us seem to think. I'd like to see Palacios and Cameron given a go, if Cameron is as good as Pulis tells us he is. He looked good in Germany. I still think Whelan should be involved, but Delap as a last resort at the moment. Whitehead is too clumsy and although I feel referees treat him harshly (they are even harsher on Crouch), there's nothing we can do about that (only Ferguson can) and he's not as effective as he was, offering nothing going forward.
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Post by Bagwash on Aug 19, 2012 20:12:24 GMT
Tone doesn't know what a midfielder is the last decent footballing midfielder Tone signed was John Eustace and seeing him playing for Watford last season he is still better than we've got! Agree matey,thought the same about Eustace the few times I saw him last season.Definately better than what we got at the moment imho
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Post by stackman on Aug 19, 2012 20:35:29 GMT
. How many goals did he score last season? How many did Whelan score? Quite frankly it's not good enough. There were full backs that scored more goals last season than our midfield pairing It's rather difficult to score goals when you rarely cross the half-way line under the instructions of your manager. Our central midfielders aren't in the team to support attacks, they're in the team to protect the back-four. Like it or not that is the system we play. . I swear I have seen both of them in the opposition half, I could be wrong but I will check on the games I have recorded, but like you say Tony has obviously told them shoot at goal and your out
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Aug 20, 2012 10:26:35 GMT
On Saturday it's a bloody good thing we had Whelan as he was the only one of the two in midfield who looked to have half a brain. Whitehead was beyond atrocious and to see Delap saunter on to the pitch and do his usual impression of running through treacle was depressing. Can anyone explain why he got on the pitch before Palacios? People talk about Whitehead's engine but he's actually pretty slow and most of his time is spent running after players and the ball as opposed to doing anything with it. He should have been off after an hour and Palacios should have come on for some fresh legs.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Aug 20, 2012 11:16:06 GMT
Whelan has good games and poor games,when he plays well we tend to play better as a team.Undisciplined? I should imagine it takes quite a lot of self-discipline to utterly stifle any attacking instintcts a player may have and play the midfield roles as TP conceives them,in all fairness.
As for the playmaker we all crave so vehemently,how much is it going to cost to sign a modern era Graeme Souness who can do all the defensive ball winning that TP demands of the midfielders first and foremost and then spray it around like Glenn Hoddle when he has possession?
I think it's a yardstick of our unsubtantiated optimism/despair at the current midfield situation that so many people are hoping that a player who's been plying his trade in MLS and cost less than 2 million may come in and be a genuine creative force from the start.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 20, 2012 11:30:28 GMT
Whelan has good games and poor games,when he plays well we tend to play better as a team.Undisciplined? I should imagine it takes quite a lot of self-discipline to utterly stifle any attacking instintcts a player may have and play the midfield roles as TP conceives them,in all fairness. As for the playmaker we all crave so vehemently,how much is it going to cost to sign a modern era Graeme Souness who can do all the defensive ball winning that TP demands of the midfielders first and foremost and then spray it around like Glenn Hoddle when he has possession? I think it's a yardstick of our unsubtantiated optimism/despair at the current midfield situation that so many people are hoping that a player who's been plying his trade in MLS and cost less than 2 million may come in and be a genuine creative force from the start. Probably a lot of truth in that - but I wouldn't fancy Deano to have notched this one. Mind you, I wouldn't fancy Cameron's chances of avoiding a bollocking from Pulis if he'd broke from the cage to do it here either!
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Aug 20, 2012 11:31:10 GMT
'I think it's a yardstick of our unsubtantiated optimism/despair at the current midfield situation that so many people are hoping that a player who's been plying his trade in MLS and cost less than 2 million may come in and be a genuine creative force from the start.'
Not to mention one who's played most of his time at centre back and occupies that role for his country. I'd rather introduce him gradually with Palacios starting with Whelan first off. If we then want to close out a game then Cameron might be a better option than Delap but we don't really know, do we????
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