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Post by philm87 on Jun 28, 2012 20:58:25 GMT
Our 0-0 against Italy looks a lot better now.
I know we deserved to lose the game by 2 or 3 in the 90 minutes but after Italy have comfortably beaten one of the tournament favourites I feel a lot less worried about the technical inadequacies of English players.
Anyone else feel the same?
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Post by tazi on Jun 28, 2012 20:59:23 GMT
No.
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Post by stokeramblers on Jun 28, 2012 20:59:35 GMT
No
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Post by philm87 on Jun 28, 2012 20:59:55 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 28, 2012 21:02:26 GMT
Marginally.
But at least Germany were playing the same sport as Italy.
You never really got the impression our manager or players were, tactically or technically, on the same planet as them.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 28, 2012 21:03:47 GMT
Our 0-0 against Italy looks a lot better now. I know we deserved to lose the game by 2 or 3 in the 90 minutes but after Italy have comfortably beaten one of the tournament favourites I feel a lot less worried about the technical inadequacies of English players. Anyone else feel the same? The naivety of this post is breathtaking. As FullerMagic says, they were playing a different game to our muppets.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 28, 2012 21:04:00 GMT
Get someone on pierlo from the start and limit him and you stand a good chance against the Italians.
Neither us or Germany did it and payed the price.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 28, 2012 21:05:09 GMT
Marginally. But at least Germany were playing the same sport as Italy. You never really got the impression our manager or players were, tactically or technically, on the same planet as them. Yeah I agree but going into the game I thought we were just as good as Italy on paper and therefore I was pretty pissed off when they outplayed us like they did. Now it would appear that Italy are simply a much better team than people had given them credit for at the start of the tournament so I our ineptitude is slightly more forgiveable.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 28, 2012 21:05:55 GMT
Our 0-0 against Italy looks a lot better now. I know we deserved to lose the game by 2 or 3 in the 90 minutes but after Italy have comfortably beaten one of the tournament favourites I feel a lot less worried about the technical inadequacies of English players. Anyone else feel the same? The naivety of this post is breathtaking. As FullerMagic says, they were playing a different game to our muppets. Why naive?
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beast8
Youth Player
Posts: 288
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Post by beast8 on Jun 28, 2012 21:06:43 GMT
I feel better, we didnt lose a game during the tournament. And the England muppets play the same as stoke,only much much better.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 28, 2012 21:08:19 GMT
The naivety of this post is breathtaking. As FullerMagic says, they were playing a different game to our muppets. Why naive? The inadequacies, technically, tactically and physically of the England team mate. We're light years behind.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 28, 2012 21:09:06 GMT
The naivety of this post is breathtaking. As FullerMagic says, they were playing a different game to our muppets. Why naive? Well, for one you say above "going into the game I thought we were just as good as Italy on paper". We are not, were not and were never going to be "just as good as Italy," on paper or otherwise. In answer to your original question, I didn't feel bad about it in the first place. Given our limitations, taking Italy to penalties was a very good achievement.
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Post by jonah77 on Jun 28, 2012 21:11:09 GMT
One thing we always prided ourselves on was being fitter and stronger than other nations,if technically inferiior. We don't even have that anymore.
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Post by tazi on Jun 28, 2012 21:13:16 GMT
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Post by philm87 on Jun 28, 2012 21:16:10 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament.
In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP.
Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable?
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 28, 2012 21:21:59 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? I hope you aren't running our FA mate, we'd be screwed for another 50 years. Respectable - Embarrassing more like. Look past the 0-0.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 28, 2012 21:24:52 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? I hope you aren't running our FA mate, we'd be screwed for another 50 years. Respectable - Embarrassing more like. Look past the 0-0. It was embarassing yes. Slightly less embarassing now though given they've just knocked the krauts out. I didn't say respectable. I say 'more respectable'. I'm not some flag waving Woy Wimmer he doesn't realise England are shite... I'm just saying we appear to be slightly less shite than I thought a few days ago.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 28, 2012 21:27:01 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? I told you mate, I thought it was perfectly respectable in the first place. We dug in, rode our luck, created one or two chances and could well have nicked it before running out of steam. We were never going to outplay or even match a technically far superior team in open play - anyone who was expecting that was in denial in the first place.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 28, 2012 21:29:01 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? I hope you aren't running our FA mate, we'd be screwed for another 50 years. Respectable - Embarrassing more like. Look past the 0-0. Two issues Pugs. The general state of the English game given our size and footballing tradition is embarrassing, yes. Given those limitations, the Italy game in itself was very respectable.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 28, 2012 21:33:22 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? I told you mate, I thought it was perfectly respectable in the first place. We dug in, rode our luck, created one or two chances and could well have nicked it before running out of steam. We were never going to outplay or even match a technically far superior team in open play - anyone who was expecting that was in denial in the first place. So it's both respectable and embarassing? ??? I knew Italy had better passers of the ball but I didn't think there was much difference between the two sides before the game. That's not denial but more down to Italy's recent form and the fact I don't watch Italian football.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 28, 2012 21:45:07 GMT
I hope you aren't running our FA mate, we'd be screwed for another 50 years. Respectable - Embarrassing more like. Look past the 0-0. Two issues Pugs. The general state of the English game given our size and footballing tradition is embarrassing, yes. Given those limitations, the Italy game in itself was very respectable. I find little respect in parking the bus and not being able to do the basics. I find it embarrassing that we had a centre forward who hadn't a clue with the ball at his feet, another forward who was off the pace and looked unfit, midfield players who could pass 10 yards and don't know the meaning of movement. Most embarrassing of all was the stat that our most used 'pass' was the hoof from Hart to Carroll. And Carroll only came on after an hour.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 21:47:36 GMT
Our 0-0 against Italy looks a lot better now. I know we deserved to lose the game by 2 or 3 in the 90 minutes but after Italy have comfortably beaten one of the tournament favourites I feel a lot less worried about the technical inadequacies of English players. Anyone else feel the same? No ,this doesn't alter in any way our performance
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Post by banksy on Jun 28, 2012 21:52:29 GMT
I watched the Spain Portugal match and enjoyed a technical and skilful game of football my wife thought it was " bloody boring" and theres the rub. Our premier league might not be as technical and skilful as other leagues but by christ it can get bloody exciting and that is why millions of people around the world watch it and media companies pay 3.5billion in rights. I dont think there is a lot wrong with English football that cannot be put right, but every successful national side has at least one world class player in their side and that is something England does not have at the moment.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 28, 2012 21:53:49 GMT
Two issues Pugs. The general state of the English game given our size and footballing tradition is embarrassing, yes. Given those limitations, the Italy game in itself was very respectable. I find little respect in parking the bus and not being able to do the basics. I find it embarrassing that we had a centre forward who hadn't a clue with the ball at his feet, another forward who was off the pace and looked unfit, midfield players who could pass 10 yards and don't know the meaning of movement. Most embarrassing of all was the stat that our most used 'pass' was the hoof from Hart to Carroll. And Carroll only came on after an hour. What did you expect? Did you think our players were suddenly going to magic up a load of technical ability they don't have? We knew we would be under the cosh for large parts of the game. We knew we wouldn't beat them for possession. We knew our best chance was to be organised, defend well and try to nick something on the break. We knew these things! Then when all that happens, nearly comes off for a bit then we get tired and go out on pens, it's all "embarrassing" and "shambolic." We knew what to expect and under the circumstances we did alright really.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 21:58:05 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? Funnily enough those talking about this supposed gulf in class, our the gap in technique are naive, using the same cliches to explain englands failings. It is nothing of the sort. And now we are seeing a complete exaggeration as to how england were annihilated by italy.italy deserved to beat england but if there was a massive gap in technique then england would not have been able to create 4-5 goalscoring opportunities when they did attack. England failing was just the same as usual, the rigid shape and lack of tactical awareness causes a style of play where possession is squandered willingly. Those same england players would have fared much better possession wise in a different team shape and with more familiarity with that shape.
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Post by mailman44 on Jun 28, 2012 22:05:57 GMT
No league can touch the Prem for entertainment, all that matters!
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Post by prideofthemidlands on Jun 29, 2012 1:15:00 GMT
I think people are going overboard with this technical inferiority thing.
Our players are good enough to give Italy a game.
It was the tactics and formation that led to us getting dominated.
Who decides that?
The manager.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2012 2:35:27 GMT
The technical/tactical inferiority is huge all consuming and growing. There's nowhere to hide anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 7:44:48 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? Whether Italy were contenders it not they were always likely to be better than us. Because they, you know, are. That's why I didn't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth on here. It's folly to expect England to do anything at the best of times, but it's especially daft to expect a lot from the weakest England squad in 20 years, with key players missing and a managed parachuted into the job six weeks before the tournament. People on here seemed to expect us to play swashbuckling football and match France and Italy step for step. It was never going to happen. We actually marginally over-achieved of anything.
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 29, 2012 7:51:12 GMT
PotterLog... I don't remember many on here touting Italy as major contenders at the start of the tournament. In hindsight they are clearly much better than us but that was kind of the point I was making in the OP. Even if you always believed Italy were much better than us (and the form book going into the tournament suggested otherwise) the fact that they have just beaten Germany quite comfortably surely makes our defeat slightly more respectable? Whether Italy were contenders it not they were always likely to be better than us. Because they, you know, are. That's why I didn't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth on here. It's folly to expect England to do anything at the best of times, but it's especially daft to expect a lot from the weakest England squad in 20 years, with key players missing and a managed parachuted into the job six weeks before the tournament. People on here seemed to expect us to play swashbuckling football and match France and Italy step for step. It was never going to happen. We actually marginally over-achieved of anything. I'm not sure that being completely shite and very lucky can be even remotely close to an achievement, marginal or otherwise.
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