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Post by luke45 on Jun 27, 2012 16:28:00 GMT
englandexiteuro2012.blogspot.co.uk/I don't usually do blogging or articles about Football, but the only way I can ever overcome an England tournament exit is by writing about it, so even if you find this utterly crap and boring, it's helped me to get over it. ;D Feel free to read and criticise ;D
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Post by salopstick on Jun 27, 2012 16:48:27 GMT
I like his approach of:
Picking vast majority of a squad who have had a wank season ad don't deserve to go Overlooking senior established pros in form and better than what we took Not making sure our star striker was fit and in form Bringing on Jordan Henderson Using the lateness of his appointment as a convenient excuse Sticking with archaic tactics
I was and am happy with the appointment but he can preach change all he wants but I will believe it when I see it
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Post by jstoke7 on Jun 27, 2012 17:23:24 GMT
englandexiteuro2012.blogspot.co.uk/I don't usually do blogging or articles about Football, but the only way I can ever overcome an England tournament exit is by writing about it, so even if you find this utterly crap and boring, it's helped me to get over it. ;D Feel free to read and criticise ;D Personally I think his approach just promises more of the same thing we've seen over the last 4 years, crap football, lack of ambition and hard work over skill.
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Post by sportsman on Jun 27, 2012 18:05:16 GMT
I like how within one week of failing in every major tournament, the England manager always blames not having a winter break. Hodgson, like all previous right on cue.
Can he also explain how giving Rooney and the other England players plenty of time off at the end of the season prior to the Euros hasn't helped at all and they were all knackered after 90 minutes of football?
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Post by GrandStokie on Jun 27, 2012 18:07:41 GMT
I remember a certain Italian geezer who promised us a revolution!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 18:33:18 GMT
I'm amazed that people are harshly judging a bloke parachuted into the job at short notice who got a team tipped by many to go out at the groups to finish top and get to within a penalty shoot out of the semi finals.
The time to judge Hodgson will be after Brazil 2014. Still early days.
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Post by sportsman on Jun 27, 2012 19:05:54 GMT
Were we tipped to got out at the group stages when cappello was there? No
So why when he left were we to bow to the bloke if he got us a point in the group stages? He had the same group of players to choose from that cappello would have picked and carried out the same tactics, so for me the quarters with the players we have were expected and achieved.
He will be judged as the world cup qualifiers go along. I wish I could have a massive 4 year contract where nothing is expected for about the first three years.
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Post by luke45 on Jun 27, 2012 19:42:38 GMT
I like his approach of: Picking vast majority of a squad who have had a wank season ad don't deserve to go Overlooking senior established pros in form and better than what we took Not making sure our star striker was fit and in form Bringing on Jordan Henderson Using the lateness of his appointment as a convenient excuse Sticking with archaic tactics I was and am happy with the appointment but he can preach change all he wants but I will believe it when I see it I'm not sure what more Roy could've give regarding Rooney's fitness and form, he's given him as much game time as he possibly could at Euro 2012, he just wasn't at the races. I'm not a fan of Jordan Henderson either, but how many other options did Roy have? Lampard and Barry were both injured and Carrick refused a place on the stand-by list, what other options is there? Phil Jones perhaps, but his form has been woeful since January. The lateness of his appointment was a definite disadvantage to Roy and the team. Seven weeks of preparation is not a long time to prepare for an International tournament. I was amazed how organised and disciplined we look at times to be honest, he's managed to improve the shape of the team considerably already. I really don't think you can question his tactics too much when we're still unbeaten in 90 minutes Football under his management. Norway, Belgium, France, Sweden, Ukraine and Italy are far from easy fixtures either. I guess some people will never take to Hodgson's approach though, much like many on this board will never take to Pulis's approach. Personally, I don't care how we approach the game providing it gets results.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 27, 2012 19:59:38 GMT
I'm amazed that people are harshly judging a bloke parachuted into the job at short notice who got a team tipped by many to go out at the groups to finish top and get to within a penalty shoot out of the semi finals. The time to judge Hodgson will be after Brazil 2014. Still early days. I think you're taking a very fair attitude rob, but I don't see why people should be asked to ignore what they've just witnessed simply because he's new to the job. He's actually been doing a similar job (in most respects for decades) and been a pretty successful coach/manager on the whole. England played THE SAME tactics in all 4 games despite being over-run in midfield in the first game and being outplayed for much of the game by a poor Ukraine side in another game. Approaching the Italy game we ALL knew how Italy would line up and that Pirlo would run the game in a 5 man midfield. Despite THAT he sent out the same players to play the same way KNOWING that we wouldn't be equipped to get anywhere near the man we needed to 'take care of'. Not only that, but he witnessed how much they were struggling to get to grips with the game in the first half and yet changed NOTHING. Extra time? - Changed NOTHING. One winger struggling but working hard and contributing to the team and another playing woefully, so he takes off the one that's playing better. One striker looking unfit and disinterested alongside another much more mobile player who was contributing much more, and he takes off the better one!!!!!!! For me, HIS performance was woeful and I don't care how long he's been in that particular job, these are all things he's had to contend with all his professional life. BTW: I wonder how much influence Pirlo will have on tomorrow's semi?
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Post by sportsman on Jun 27, 2012 20:12:56 GMT
And hodgson having managed pirlo before as well! Rio Ferdinand said that when utd played Milan 2 years ago Park stuck to him like glue and he didn't get a kick and utd win 4-0. He said pirlo would have woke up the next morning expecting Park to be lying next to him!!
We let him roam free for 120 minutes. Should have played 5 in midfield and one up top. Could have give Rooney free role up top like for united without detailing to look over his shoulder all game looking for Pirlo.
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Post by serpico on Jun 27, 2012 20:16:43 GMT
On one hand Hodgson did well, on the other he did absolutely shite ;D .
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 27, 2012 20:19:19 GMT
On one hand Hodgson did well, on the other he did absolutely shite ;D . Nah, on both hands he did shite! In fact, it seems as though he was sitting on them with his fingers crossed. That's why I don't rate his performance.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jun 27, 2012 20:29:12 GMT
And hodgson having managed pirlo before as well! Rio Ferdinand said that when utd played Milan 2 years ago Park stuck to him like glue and he didn't get a kick and utd win 4-0. He said pirlo would have woke up the next morning expecting Park to be lying next to him!! We let him roam free for 120 minutes. Should have played 5 in midfield and one up top. Could have give Rooney free role up top like for united without detailing to look over his shoulder all game looking for Pirlo. If he thought park was bad enough best hope they never get us in Europe Walters would be crawling up his arse ;D
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Post by salopstick on Jun 27, 2012 20:41:21 GMT
Carrick should have been in the squad before standby as should have mica Richards
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Post by serpico on Jun 27, 2012 20:44:12 GMT
On one hand Hodgson did well, on the other he did absolutely shite ;D . Nah, on both hands he did shite! In fact, it seems as though he was sitting on them with his fingers crossed. That's why I don't rate his performance. Despite that, he was 3 successful pens away from a semi final, if England didn't have a team of bottlers or morons who put penalties high instead of low and hard, it would have worked, a semi final would have been seen as a major success, despite everything else, and he nearly did it.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 27, 2012 20:52:41 GMT
Nah, on both hands he did shite! In fact, it seems as though he was sitting on them with his fingers crossed. That's why I don't rate his performance. Despite that, he was 3 successful pens away from a semi final, if England didn't have a team of bottlers or morons who put penalties high instead of low and hard, it would have worked, a semi final would have been seen as a major success, despite everything else, and he nearly did it. That's all true mate if you are able to turn a blind eye to the fact that Italy should have stuffed us out of site and completely dominated the game in every aspect apart from managing to miss EVERY ONE of the 21 attempts they had to score. Prior to that we had been completely outplayed by France and largely outplayed by Ukrain (who are shite). We couldn't have complained if we'd lost every one of our group games and where would the positive comments be then? BY the way, we won ONE game and looked like losing that. France's team have gone home to a very hostile reception for doing pretty much the same as England. We were very, very, (there isn't enough room on the page for the correct number of very's) LUCKY!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 21:54:58 GMT
Were we tipped to got out at the group stages when cappello was there? No So why when he left were we to bow to the bloke if he got us a point in the group stages? He had the same group of players to choose from that cappello would have picked and carried out the same tactics, so for me the quarters with the players we have were expected and achieved. He will be judged as the world cup qualifiers go along. I wish I could have a massive 4 year contract where nothing is expected for about the first three years. Yes it was still a distinct possibility that we would go out in the first round under Capello. Then he left and things were thrown into disarray. If you honestly think appointing a coach weeks before the finals and everything that goes with it doesn't put a team at a disadvantage then you're living in a dream world. Moreover, this is the weakest England squad for years and key players were either missing or suspended. What exactly should we be achieving in that context? Should Roy have just waltzed in and had them playing France and Italy off the park two months after leaving the Hawthorns?
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Post by Davef on Jun 27, 2012 21:57:27 GMT
The time to judge Hodgson will be after Brazil 2014. Still early days. And you really think we'll be having a different discussion about England Rob? The Premier League season will be starting in six or seven weeks. It will be lauded as the best, most exciting league in the world, some teams and players will be over-hyped, other teams will be concentrating their entire efforts on surviving because of the new TV windfall. Through all this, no-one will give two hoots about the national side. Not until this time in two years, when the same old moans, groans and excuses will be trotted out when we lose on penalties again.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 27, 2012 21:59:05 GMT
Were we tipped to got out at the group stages when cappello was there? No So why when he left were we to bow to the bloke if he got us a point in the group stages? He had the same group of players to choose from that cappello would have picked and carried out the same tactics, so for me the quarters with the players we have were expected and achieved. He will be judged as the world cup qualifiers go along. I wish I could have a massive 4 year contract where nothing is expected for about the first three years. Yes it was still a distinct possibility that we would go out in the first round under Capello. Then he left and things were thrown into disarray. If you honestly think appointing a coach weeks before the finals and everything that goes with it doesn't put a team at a disadvantage then you're living in a dream world. Moreover, this is the weakest England squad for years and key players were either missing or suspended. What exactly should we be achieving in that context? Should Roy have just waltzed in and had them playing France and Italy off the park two months after leaving the Hawthorns? Maybe NOT rob but we were pretty piss poor against nations that are WORSE than us too. Or should we be EXPECTING to be outplayed by the likes of Ukraine because our manager's new? I didn't have high expectations because I KNOW we aren't good enough but it's very disappointing to, see how tactically poor we were (the manager's responsibilities).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 21:59:11 GMT
I'm amazed that people are harshly judging a bloke parachuted into the job at short notice who got a team tipped by many to go out at the groups to finish top and get to within a penalty shoot out of the semi finals. The time to judge Hodgson will be after Brazil 2014. Still early days. I think you're taking a very fair attitude rob, but I don't see why people should be asked to ignore what they've just witnessed simply because he's new to the job. He's actually been doing a similar job (in most respects for decades) and been a pretty successful coach/manager on the whole. England played THE SAME tactics in all 4 games despite being over-run in midfield in the first game and being outplayed for much of the game by a poor Ukraine side in another game. Approaching the Italy game we ALL knew how Italy would line up and that Pirlo would run the game in a 5 man midfield. Despite THAT he sent out the same players to play the same way KNOWING that we wouldn't be equipped to get anywhere near the man we needed to 'take care of'. Not only that, but he witnessed how much they were struggling to get to grips with the game in the first half and yet changed NOTHING. Extra time? - Changed NOTHING. One winger struggling but working hard and contributing to the team and another playing woefully, so he takes off the one that's playing better. One striker looking unfit and disinterested alongside another much more mobile player who was contributing much more, and he takes off the better one!!!!!!! For me, HIS performance was woeful and I don't care how long he's been in that particular job, these are all things he's had to contend with all his professional life. BTW: I wonder how much influence Pirlo will have on tomorrow's semi? Doz, He made mistakes without question in the tournament and in the quarter final. But given the task that lay ahead of him he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I don't see how he's been doing 'a similar job' unless you're suggesting that managing West Brom and England is the same thing. This tournament was a transitional one for England. It was about providing a platform to build on in the future and gradually restoring a bit of confidence. I think we've done that. Onwards and upwards.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 22:02:26 GMT
The time to judge Hodgson will be after Brazil 2014. Still early days. And you really think we'll be having a different discussion about England Rob? The Premier League season will be starting in six or seven weeks. It will be lauded as the best, most exciting league in the world, some teams and players will be over-hyped, other teams will be concentrating their entire efforts on surviving because of the new TV windfall. Through all this, no-one will give two hoots about the national side. Not until this time in two years, when the same old moans, groans and excuses will be trotted out when we lose on penalties again. I don't know Dave. I'm prepared to give the new manager a chance and don't understand the blarting on here about England's performances. Context seems to have gone out the window.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 22:05:19 GMT
Yes it was still a distinct possibility that we would go out in the first round under Capello. Then he left and things were thrown into disarray. If you honestly think appointing a coach weeks before the finals and everything that goes with it doesn't put a team at a disadvantage then you're living in a dream world. Moreover, this is the weakest England squad for years and key players were either missing or suspended. What exactly should we be achieving in that context? Should Roy have just waltzed in and had them playing France and Italy off the park two months after leaving the Hawthorns? Maybe NOT rob but we were pretty piss poor against nations that are WORSE than us too. Or should we be EXPECTING to be outplayed by the likes of Ukraine because our manager's new? I didn't have high expectations because I KNOW we aren't good enough but it's very disappointing to, see how tactically poor we were (the manager's responsibilities). I think people have overstated that Doz. We were NOT lucky against Sweden. We dominated two thirds of that game. People complain about the players not showing "passion" and then we dig deep, come from behind and it's "lucky England". Ukraine was a game in which we just did enough to win. We started slowly and got lucky with the ghost goal but overall were just about worth it. Yes France and Italy outplayed us but guess what? They're better than us.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 27, 2012 22:17:06 GMT
I think you're taking a very fair attitude rob, but I don't see why people should be asked to ignore what they've just witnessed simply because he's new to the job. He's actually been doing a similar job (in most respects for decades) and been a pretty successful coach/manager on the whole. England played THE SAME tactics in all 4 games despite being over-run in midfield in the first game and being outplayed for much of the game by a poor Ukraine side in another game. Approaching the Italy game we ALL knew how Italy would line up and that Pirlo would run the game in a 5 man midfield. Despite THAT he sent out the same players to play the same way KNOWING that we wouldn't be equipped to get anywhere near the man we needed to 'take care of'. Not only that, but he witnessed how much they were struggling to get to grips with the game in the first half and yet changed NOTHING. Extra time? - Changed NOTHING. One winger struggling but working hard and contributing to the team and another playing woefully, so he takes off the one that's playing better. One striker looking unfit and disinterested alongside another much more mobile player who was contributing much more, and he takes off the better one!!!!!!! For me, HIS performance was woeful and I don't care how long he's been in that particular job, these are all things he's had to contend with all his professional life. BTW: I wonder how much influence Pirlo will have on tomorrow's semi? Doz, He made mistakes without question in the tournament and in the quarter final. But given the task that lay ahead of him he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I don't see how he's been doing 'a similar job' unless you're suggesting that managing West Brom and England is the same thing. This tournament was a transitional one for England. It was about providing a platform to build on in the future and gradually restoring a bit of confidence. I think we've done that. Onwards and upwards. Of course there are huge differences in managing West Brom and managing England rob but tactics are tactics and he's been involved in it all his life. Of course he's only got the players he's got and he has to work with that. I also appreciate the situation that he stepped into and I think managing England is a thankless task for anyone. I'm not throwing myself under a train or calling for him to go because that would be stupid given he's only just taken over. However, it's fair to comment on his tactics in this tournament and they've not been impressive IMO given that we were outplayed for MOST of the tournament and in MOST of the games we played. The Italy game wasn't just a "mistake" he sat and watched us getting murdered and did NOTHING to alter the situation. Many will be able to completely ignore what they saw and say we were unbeaten and were just a penalty shoot out from the semi final. It looks good on paper or in the history books but I prefer to base my assessment on what I actually witnessed. We played against teams who play 5 in the midfield and we were outplayed in that department in every game and we could easily have lost every game but luck favoured us. Had Italy beaten us by 3 or 4 we can have had no complaints whatsoever but they managed to miss 21 presentable opportunities to score (such was their dominance). Now I KNOW that they are a better side than us but we played to all their strengths and, were it a boxing match, we would have been spared further punishment long before the final whistle by any referee with an ounce of compassion. My expectations were not high and, since we beat ONE team (and they're not very good) and struggled against 3 others, we most certainly didn't exceed my low expectations. The lack of quality I can easily accept where England is concerned but tactically we were terrible and the manager could have done much better in that department. I could lie and say he did well, but he didn't.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 27, 2012 22:18:35 GMT
We beat two teams by the way
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 27, 2012 22:22:41 GMT
We beat two teams by the way Indeed, thank you for that. I DO get carried away. Still think we were second best for most of the Ukraine game though and could easily have lost ALL of our games. I thought we were very, very lucky in every single game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 22:24:52 GMT
Again, it depends what you were expecting.
The manager, in the limited time he had, with the players available to him, clearly wanted to rebuild the players' confidence. You do that slowly, getting the basics right and building from the back.
Sweden are not a bad side. They just didn't perform very well in the tournament. The only poor side we played was Ukraine, and they were the hosts, which can count for a lot in a finals.
Roy made mistakes against Italy and we rode our luck getting to penalties. But even if they'd beaten us in normal time we could be satisfied with our tournament because topping that group with that squad and in those circumstances, however it was achieved, is laudable.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 22:26:26 GMT
We beat two teams by the way Indeed, thank you for that. I DO get carried away. Still think we were second best for most of the Ukraine game though and could easily have lost ALL of our games. I thought we were very, very lucky in every single game. How we were lucky against Sweden? Is every team who comes from behind 'lucky'? We were easily the better team in the second half, had a ropey 20 minutes after the break and the finished the stronger team.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 27, 2012 22:27:05 GMT
We beat two teams by the way Indeed, thank you for that. I DO get carried away. Still think we were second best for most of the Ukraine game though and could easily have lost ALL of our games. I thought we were very, very lucky in every single game. Maybe slightly lucky against France but can you recall them creating a clear goal scoring opportunity? Against Sweden and Ukraine we were the better team. We weren't brilliant and there were certainly spells where we struggled but we just about deserved the victory. Against Italy we were very lucky. They probably should have won at least 2 or 3 nil before in the ninety minutes. Maybe because you're angry with how wank we were against Italy you're looking back on our games in the group stages slightly differently?
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 27, 2012 22:27:58 GMT
Rob: Sweden's midfield played much better than ours IMO and they are the most 'England like' team that we could play. It was a good (close) game but we could easily have lost it as we could have the Ukraine game. The general opinion would have been very different had that happened so I don't think we should be blinded by an overall poor performance against some pretty average teams and a France team that went home in disgrace (although they still completely outplayed US). You said "Guess what France and Italy are better than us". Strangely enough many were saying this was the poorest Italy side for many years and we would beat them! I ha-ppen to think you're right, they are both better than us but not MUCH. Furthermore we are better than Sweden and Ukraine but struggled against both IMO. France had a terrible tournament and only managed to look good against ONE team. Can't quite recall who that was.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 22:36:44 GMT
Rob: Sweden's midfield played much better than ours IMO and they are the most 'England like' team that we could play. It was a good (close) game but we could easily have lost it as we could have the Ukraine game. The general opinion would have been very different had that happened so I don't think we should be blinded by an overall poor performance against some pretty average teams and a France team that went home in disgrace (although they still completely outplayed US). That France team is better than us Doz. Disgrace or otherwise. We were much the better team for the majority of the Sweden game regardless of what their midfield was doing? Where did it get them? The two goals we gifted them aside they barely threatened. How many games have Stoke deservedly won despite the opposition having more of the ball. Again, circumstances being what they were, I don't quite know what people expected from us.
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