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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 20, 2012 15:42:32 GMT
Exactly so the chances of it ever coming off is pretty slim.
It can only be a great cross if that's what he meant to do. So it remains a shit cross that got a lucky break.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 15:47:49 GMT
The cross for Carrol's header was a great cross.
the cross yesterday was a case of Gerrard beating his man and smashing the ball into a crowded goalmouth, the ball could of ended up anywhere, but lucky for England it ended up on Rooneys head.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 15:48:48 GMT
Exactly so the chances of it ever coming off is pretty slim. It can only be a great cross if that's what he meant to do. So it remains a shit cross that got a lucky break. not true at all and if you'd played any kind of football then you'd know full well that if you get the chance to hit a ball low and flat into "The corridor of uncertainty" (between the back four and the keeper so the defenders are facing the wrong way and the keeper doesn't know to come for it or not) then you bloody well do because the slightest touch, flick,deflection and anything can happen. what does end up happening may not be exactly what you expect but that doesn't mean that doing it in the first place isn't EXACTLY the right thing to do.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 20, 2012 16:00:34 GMT
Exactly so the chances of it ever coming off is pretty slim. It can only be a great cross if that's what he meant to do. So it remains a shit cross that got a lucky break. Did Peter Crouch mean the ball to enter the Citeh net at exactly the point that it did? No? Well then it wasn't a great goal was it? Gerard pinged the ball into the area where he knew: a) defenders/keeper would be in big trouble b) our attacking players would be well placed to benefit A shit player would have screwed the cross into the crowd, behind the attacking players, into the keepers arms etc. A decent player in good form did what Gerard did.
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 20, 2012 16:09:18 GMT
Exactly so the chances of it ever coming off is pretty slim. It can only be a great cross if that's what he meant to do. So it remains a shit cross that got a lucky break. not true at all and if you'd played any kind of football then you'd know full well that if you get the chance to hit a ball low and flat into "The corridor of uncertainty" (between the back four and the keeper so the defenders are facing the wrong way and the keeper doesn't know to come for it or not) then you bloody well do because the slightest touch, flick,deflection and anything can happen. what does end up happening may not be exactly what you expect but that doesn't mean that doing it in the first place isn't EXACTLY the right thing to do. If that as you describe it is the corridor of uncertainty (no manager I ever played under would ever have come out with something sounding like that) then Gerrard with nobody near him missed it because it was going behind the gap until it took the first deflection. Had it gone where he intended it to, it might have been a decent cross but I suspect the the defender would have got to it before Welbeck (I think it was) and it wouldn't have made it to the near post never mind the goal. If you think blindly hitting hard somewhere not even close to where he intended is great play then I bow to your superior knowledge.
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Post by onionman on Jun 20, 2012 16:45:13 GMT
Smacking the ball as hard as physically possible into the danger area, in the hope of getting a lucky deflection, is ace.
That was the one trick up my sleeve as an industrious pub team full-back.
That and the throw-in down the line, aimed at bouncing the ball off an opponent and out for another throw-in 10 yards further up the pitch.
Come to think of it, I was a stain on the Sunday League game wasn't I.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 21, 2012 10:52:42 GMT
He's played OK against pretty average opposition in Ukraine and Sweden and was part of a midfield that was completely dominated by France. Hardly time to get the bunting out just yet. He's not playing badly but oh how easily we are impressed!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2012 11:00:14 GMT
not true at all and if you'd played any kind of football then you'd know full well that if you get the chance to hit a ball low and flat into "The corridor of uncertainty" (between the back four and the keeper so the defenders are facing the wrong way and the keeper doesn't know to come for it or not) then you bloody well do because the slightest touch, flick,deflection and anything can happen. what does end up happening may not be exactly what you expect but that doesn't mean that doing it in the first place isn't EXACTLY the right thing to do. If that as you describe it is the corridor of uncertainty (no manager I ever played under would ever have come out with something sounding like that) then Gerrard with nobody near him missed it because it was going behind the gap until it took the first deflection. Had it gone where he intended it to, it might have been a decent cross but I suspect the the defender would have got to it before Welbeck (I think it was) and it wouldn't have made it to the near post never mind the goal. If you think blindly hitting hard somewhere not even close to where he intended is great play then I bow to your superior knowledge. it's a term borrowed form Cricket,genuinely am very surprised if you have plyed football that you've never heard of it ??? anyway, as an attacking player i think you'll probably find that all managers would advise that if you are attacking and have no clear option (i.e. defenders are marking tightly your only targets) then hitting it low and hard between defenders and goalkeeper IS a very good idea and far preferable to just trying to pick out one person with what would have to be a centimetre perfect pass as any kind of deflection can see it go into the net or the path of an attacker. it's something people also REGULARLY talk about on virtually any football programme when it happens in football.......i therefore presume that if you have never heard of this tactic before that notonly have you never played but also not watched any football either..... however feel free to carry on slagging off our best player so far as yo obviously have a personal agenda which is in no way related to facts or how football is actually played
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Post by Godo on Jun 21, 2012 11:18:34 GMT
I have to say that I have been very surprised that he is playing so well and agree that he has been our best player and that hasn't just been limited to defensive work but to the balls he put in for Carrol's and Rooney's goals.
I don't think people are overreacting - we are saying that he has been England's best player and actually we all know that that means that he is very far from being one of the best players in the TOURNAMENT.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Jun 21, 2012 11:33:44 GMT
I have to say that I have been very surprised that he is playing so well and agree that he has been our best player and that hasn't just been limited to defensive work but to the balls he put in for Carrol's and Rooney's goals. I don't think people are overreacting - we are saying that he has been England's best player and actually we all know that that means that he is very far from being one of the best players in the TOURNAMENT. Mind you, saying that he's been our best player (quite possible) is not entirely dissimilar to suggesting that H was the best singer in Steps. It tells you something - but it doesn't necessarily tell you very much. I have to say that Gerrard has always reminded me of a slightly more skilful version of Steve Kindon - who grumpy old gits like me will remember from his Burnley and Wolves days. Very fit, fast, extremely strong, totally committed, thunderbolt shot - but with limited flair and a suspect first touch. Stevie G is effective (very effective) in the PL, but routinely exposed against top notch international opposition (in which category I do not count Ukraine or Sweden) - and as a result not world class. Let's see how he gets on against Italy. I am quite prepared to be shown that I am wrong - frequently am.
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Post by onionman on Jun 21, 2012 12:41:50 GMT
I have to say that I have been very surprised that he is playing so well and agree that he has been our best player and that hasn't just been limited to defensive work but to the balls he put in for Carrol's and Rooney's goals. I don't think people are overreacting - we are saying that he has been England's best player and actually we all know that that means that he is very far from being one of the best players in the TOURNAMENT. Mind you, saying that he's been our best player (quite possible) is not entirely dissimilar to suggesting that H was the best singer in Steps. It tells you something - but it doesn't necessarily tell you very much. I have to say that Gerrard has always reminded me of a slightly more skilful version of Steve Kindon - who grumpy old gits like me will remember from his Burnley and Wolves days. Very fit, fast, extremely strong, totally committed, thunderbolt shot - but with limited flair and a suspect first touch. Stevie G is effective (very effective) in the PL, but routinely exposed against top notch international opposition (in which category I do not count Ukraine or Sweden) - and as a result not world class. Let's see how he gets on against Italy. I am quite prepared to be shown that I am wrong - frequently am. Good post. Against top level opponents, I can only think of that brilliant 45 minutes he had in the Champions League final - when Hamann was alongside him doing the work which required intelligence.
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 21, 2012 12:47:15 GMT
If that as you describe it is the corridor of uncertainty (no manager I ever played under would ever have come out with something sounding like that) then Gerrard with nobody near him missed it because it was going behind the gap until it took the first deflection. Had it gone where he intended it to, it might have been a decent cross but I suspect the the defender would have got to it before Welbeck (I think it was) and it wouldn't have made it to the near post never mind the goal. If you think blindly hitting hard somewhere not even close to where he intended is great play then I bow to your superior knowledge. it's a term borrowed form Cricket,genuinely am very surprised if you have plyed football that you've never heard of it ??? anyway, as an attacking player i think you'll probably find that all managers would advise that if you are attacking and have no clear option (i.e. defenders are marking tightly your only targets) then hitting it low and hard between defenders and goalkeeper IS a very good idea and far preferable to just trying to pick out one person with what would have to be a centimetre perfect pass as any kind of deflection can see it go into the net or the path of an attacker. it's something people also REGULARLY talk about on virtually any football programme when it happens in football.......i therefore presume that if you have never heard of this tactic before that notonly have you never played but also not watched any football either..... however feel free to carry on slagging off our best player so far as yo obviously have a personal agenda which is in no way related to facts or how football is actually played Not sure of the need for this to get personal, but I guess that's the state of this place now. I have never played for a manager that used type of pretentious terms such as the one you suggest. Again I repeat for a 'world class' player not to be able to kick the ball where he intended or should have done with the time he had is poor and the outcome was lucky. I can only assume that you watch the match differently to me and don't see an uninterested Gerrard walking about when he is not near the ball, not tracking his man (or any man). The game is much more about the players when they don't have the ball than when they do. Watch any of the first half against Ukraine and see how Cole was left out to dry by Gerrard and Young. Woy had to switch Gerrard and Parker to help him out. Where was Gerrard for the France goal - even Carragher spotted it so it must have been obvious. We will be undone by the first decent team we play as we almost were in every game so far unless we are lucky. Long may it continue.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 21, 2012 12:50:36 GMT
I suspect the Italians will try and mark Gerrard out of the game, which may free up Young if he starts and allow him to finally run at the full back and beat him. I agree Gerrard has been suspect defensively but he has got 3 assists for us now in 3 games, with the quality he is able to deliver in open play and set pieces it is very difficult to justify leaving him out.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 21, 2012 12:50:37 GMT
it's a term borrowed form Cricket,genuinely am very surprised if you have plyed football that you've never heard of it ??? anyway, as an attacking player i think you'll probably find that all managers would advise that if you are attacking and have no clear option (i.e. defenders are marking tightly your only targets) then hitting it low and hard between defenders and goalkeeper IS a very good idea and far preferable to just trying to pick out one person with what would have to be a centimetre perfect pass as any kind of deflection can see it go into the net or the path of an attacker. it's something people also REGULARLY talk about on virtually any football programme when it happens in football.......i therefore presume that if you have never heard of this tactic before that notonly have you never played but also not watched any football either..... however feel free to carry on slagging off our best player so far as yo obviously have a personal agenda which is in no way related to facts or how football is actually played Not sure of the need for this to get personal, but I guess that's the state of this place now. I have never played for a manager that used type of pretentious terms such as the one you suggest. Again I repeat for a 'world class' player not to be able to kick the ball where he intended or should have done with the time he had is poor and the outcome was lucky. I can only assume that you watch the match differently to me and don't see an uninterested Gerrard walking about when he is not near the ball, not tracking his man (or any man). The game is much more about the players when they don't have the ball than when they do. Watch any of the first half against Ukraine and see how Cole was left out to dry by Gerrard and Young. Woy had to switch Gerrard and Parker to help him out. Where was Gerrard for the France goal - even Carragher spotted it so it must have been obvious. We will be undone by the first decent team we play as we almost were in every game so far unless we are lucky. Long may it continue. Most of my managers loved to say "get it in the f***in mixer" which is exactly what Gerard did.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 21, 2012 12:57:08 GMT
Smacking the ball as hard as physically possible into the danger area, in the hope of getting a lucky deflection, is ace. That was the one trick up my sleeve as an industrious pub team full-back. That and the throw-in down the line, aimed at bouncing the ball off an opponent and out for another throw-in 10 yards further up the pitch. Come to think of it, I was a stain on the Sunday League game wasn't I. Surely you must have had the spectacular crogging sliding tackle to put the ball out for a corner, covering up for the fact that your man should have been nowhere near the byline in the first place? That was my speciality.
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Post by onionman on Jun 21, 2012 13:00:33 GMT
With all this talk of people's amateur football experiences... where is scfcbiancorossi to tell us how he's played centre-midfield on a Sunday for years and won countless man-of-the-match awards and THAT is why Steven Gerrard is shit.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 21, 2012 13:03:54 GMT
Smacking the ball as hard as physically possible into the danger area, in the hope of getting a lucky deflection, is ace. That was the one trick up my sleeve as an industrious pub team full-back. That and the throw-in down the line, aimed at bouncing the ball off an opponent and out for another throw-in 10 yards further up the pitch. Come to think of it, I was a stain on the Sunday League game wasn't I. Surely you must have had the spectacular crogging sliding tackle to put the ball out for a corner, covering up for the fact that your man should have been nowhere near the byline in the first place? That was my speciality. "CROGGER" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Love these old football terms from way back. Remember when I'd shout over to the winger "ON ME NOBB! And I didn't mean smack it for my bollocks!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by onionman on Jun 21, 2012 13:07:20 GMT
Smacking the ball as hard as physically possible into the danger area, in the hope of getting a lucky deflection, is ace. That was the one trick up my sleeve as an industrious pub team full-back. That and the throw-in down the line, aimed at bouncing the ball off an opponent and out for another throw-in 10 yards further up the pitch. Come to think of it, I was a stain on the Sunday League game wasn't I. Surely you must have had the spectacular crogging sliding tackle to put the ball out for a corner, covering up for the fact that your man should have been nowhere near the byline in the first place? That was my speciality. And then, because you're a full-back, you get to stand on the post at the corner, have a breather and shout things like: "There's one on the edge!"
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 21, 2012 13:14:04 GMT
Surely you must have had the spectacular crogging sliding tackle to put the ball out for a corner, covering up for the fact that your man should have been nowhere near the byline in the first place? That was my speciality. And then, because you're a full-back, you get to stand on the post at the corner, have a breather and shout things like: "There's one on the edge!" Bingo! ;D Then at half time... "I'm getting left two against one every time, I can't mark two players" (translation: that fucking winger's too fucking fast for me, does anyone else want to play full back?)
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 21, 2012 13:40:49 GMT
If Gerrard captains us to win the Euros he should be promoted to Brigadier! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2012 14:55:29 GMT
Bingo! ;D
Then at half time...
"I'm getting left two against one every time, I can't mark two players" (translation: that fucking winger's too fucking fast for me, does anyone else want to play full back?)[/quote]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I used to play full back and if I was up against some fucking roadrunner that was exactly used to say
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Post by str8outtahampton on Jun 21, 2012 15:59:27 GMT
If Gerrard captains us to win the Euros he should be promoted to Brigadier! ;D Although if he misses a decisive penalty in a SF or Final shoot out (not that I think we will progress beyond Tuesday), the red tops are equally likely to turn him into cat food.
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Post by braddamick on Jun 21, 2012 17:22:26 GMT
We should have made him the Captain years ago. The team should have been built around him instead of accomodating Lampard.Pitty about the influence of the Southern press. He`s just showing what a lot of Northern English supporters already knew.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2012 15:02:15 GMT
I love English fans i really do, out played in each game, sat back and defended, managed to get through with a whole lot of luck.
Yet we have people telling us what superb performances were on show.
A very average side in a very average group. There was no more football on show than you see down the Brit.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 22, 2012 15:17:11 GMT
France and Ukraine were the better sides (mainly restricted to taking long range shots) but outplayed by Sweden? 1st 20 mins of the 2nd half maybe.
The luck thing is over-stated as well, Rooney's goal had a bit of luck but what else?
Lescott's header? Carroll's header? Walcott's 25 yarder? Welbeck's neat flick?
The Ukraine 'goal' the one that as offside!
I must have missed the backs to the wall defending, shots hitting the woodwork etc.
We haven't been brilliant but done what we've had to do considering we were supposed to be preparing to come home after 2 games.
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