|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 21:26:55 GMT
JSU: People have given you a fairly credible and detailed argument as to why Owen might not be a great idea for us: - Age - Injuries - Suspicion he's not too bothered anymore - Fact that he doesn't obviously fit into either of the two rigid striking roles in our rigid system - Pace has gone - Fact that we don't create the chances for a striker to thrive on. Your argument is as follows: - BUT IT'S MICHAEL OWEN YOU GUYS! OMG! From the makers of the people who brought you (BUT IT'S TUNCAY YOU GUYS!, BUT IT'S EIDUR GUDJOHNSEN YOU GUYS! and BUT IT'S PATRIK BERGER YOU GUYS!) You talk about how anyone could possibly argue that Fuller might be a better bet than Owen, but one has proven they can create their own chances, which is what we desperately need, and the other would depend largely on service, which we don't provide. So it's really not as clear cut as you're making out, is it? It's a good discussion, in order for tony pulis to evolve this is the type of signing that has to happen. That said though I want players in this club who have pace and/or know where the net is and he certainly ticks one of those boxes. We need strikers who score goals. No striker since TP came to the club has hit 20 goals. It's not that every striker we've had hasn't been capable of it, it's because how we set up doesn't allow for it. We don't score enough because we don't create enough, first and foremost.
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on May 17, 2012 21:29:44 GMT
Its quite simple. The withdrawn striker in our system needs to be six foot or over and very hard working. He needs defensive discipline and the ability to mark certain players. The further forward striker needs to be six foot or over, be capable of pulling wide into the channels, have a trick or two in him and be able to take people on and create something from nothing. If you deviate from either role or both then you end up with something like this season - a team that looks stupid and unbalanced and one that simply doesn't create anything. So please tell me where Owen fits into that framework... maybe try and develop a bit? jeee wizzzz
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 21:40:23 GMT
I can see this Pulis started a we don't take enough chances thread at qpr , he can't have Defoe because he can't sell so here is a name that will sell a few shirts, fit with his latest theme and possibly help the recruitment of a few others.fits his we take the ones others won't etc
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 21:40:45 GMT
Its quite simple. The withdrawn striker in our system needs to be six foot or over and very hard working. He needs defensive discipline and the ability to mark certain players. The further forward striker needs to be six foot or over, be capable of pulling wide into the channels, have a trick or two in him and be able to take people on and create something from nothing. If you deviate from either role or both then you end up with something like this season - a team that looks stupid and unbalanced and one that simply doesn't create anything. So please tell me where Owen fits into that framework... maybe try and develop a bit? jeee wizzzz TP won't though will he? He's developed our style very little in 10 years. We might well all want that, but if the man who counts doesn't, signing players who don't fit in isn't going to help much is it?
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 17, 2012 21:45:29 GMT
We all want to develop our style. Problem is the man that matters couldn't care less how we play providing we get the points come May. It's like this every season. We sign some decent enough players but TP doesn't have a clue how to use them. Tuncay being a fine example.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 17, 2012 21:49:17 GMT
Besides I've always thought TP gets far more out of lesser known players. Tuncay, Jones, Kitson, Woodgate come to mind. I would rather we brought in younger high end championship players than ageing big ego premier league has beens for the reasons I've stated.
|
|
|
Post by march4 on May 17, 2012 21:52:41 GMT
The signing of Michael Owen is simply one for commercial purposes.
He remains one of the biggest names in world football. The club will make an absolute killing in replica shirts.
Forget about how he will fit into our system. as he will only play against Grimsby in the FA Cup.
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on May 17, 2012 21:53:03 GMT
maybe try and develop a bit? jeee wizzzz TP won't though will he? He's developed our style very little in 10 years. We might well all want that, but if the man who counts doesn't, signing players who don't fit in isn't going to help much is it? what if... the man who counts wants it? it takes time we aint fashionable we can develop slowly but surely manc and london clubs are first choice for players IF we ant to change our system we have to sign players that don't fit big names like crouchy and owen will ultimately attract other big names in the long term do we only sign players that fit our style? just cos that is what we do?
|
|
|
Post by philb on May 17, 2012 21:53:43 GMT
'Owen would be a good kiddie to have around the place'
Copyright Tony Pulis
|
|
|
Post by march4 on May 17, 2012 21:55:19 GMT
Knighthood for Beckham in birthday honours?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 21:56:08 GMT
TP won't though will he? He's developed our style very little in 10 years. We might well all want that, but if the man who counts doesn't, signing players who don't fit in isn't going to help much is it? what if... the man who counts wants it? it takes time we aint fashionable we can develop slowly but surely manc and london clubs are first choice for players IF we ant to change our system we have to sign players that don't fit big names like crouchy and owen will ultimately attract other big names in the long term do we only sign players that fit our style? just cos that is what we do? He could have changed it at any time over the last TEN YEARS! And he hasn't. He's signed players who don't fit the system before and still expected them to fit into it! How long does it take exactly? 15 years? 20 years? He could have built the team around Tuncay. He could have played Berger. He could have built the team around Crouch. In each case, he's expected the players to fit into the existing system rather than changing to accommodate them. What evidence is there that he's about to start now all of a sudden?
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on May 17, 2012 21:58:10 GMT
what if... the man who counts wants it? it takes time we aint fashionable we can develop slowly but surely manc and london clubs are first choice for players IF we ant to change our system we have to sign players that don't fit big names like crouchy and owen will ultimately attract other big names in the long term do we only sign players that fit our style? just cos that is what we do? He could have changed it at any time over the last TEN YEARS! And he hasn't. He's signed players who don't fit the system before and still existed them to fit into it! How long does it take exactly? 15 years? 20 years? He could have built the team around Tuncay. He could have played Berger. He could have built the team around Crouch. In each case, he's expected the players to fit into the existing system rather than changing to accommodate them. What evidence is there that he's about to start now all of a sudden?
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 17, 2012 22:00:24 GMT
The signing of Michael Owen is simply one for commercial purposes. He remains one of the biggest names in world football. The club will make an absolute killing in replica shirts. Forget about how he will fit into our system. as he will only play against Grimsby in the FA Cup. You really do hate the beautiful game don't you You may as well watch rugby.
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on May 17, 2012 22:07:17 GMT
He could have changed it at any time over the last TEN YEARS! And he hasn't. He's signed players who don't fit the system before and still existed them to fit into it! How long does it take exactly? 15 years? 20 years? He could have built the team around Tuncay. He could have played Berger. He could have built the team around Crouch. In each case, he's expected the players to fit into the existing system rather than changing to accommodate them. What evidence is there that he's about to start now all of a sudden? he could have changed it at any time? really? Tuncay ??? i will tell you how long it takes, 25 years if needs be to establish and make sure we don't get relegated regardless of style to compete with the mancs and the london clubs realistically it's not a case of how long but it's more of a lifetime aspiration ???
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 22:12:29 GMT
Its quite simple. The withdrawn striker in our system needs to be six foot or over and very hard working. He needs defensive discipline and the ability to mark certain players. The further forward striker needs to be six foot or over, be capable of pulling wide into the channels, have a trick or two in him and be able to take people on and create something from nothing. If you deviate from either role or both then you end up with something like this season - a team that looks stupid and unbalanced and one that simply doesn't create anything. So please tell me where Owen fits into that framework... So basically, this summer, we could be offered Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi in a swap deal for Walters, Jerome, and Mama, but there would be no point in doing the deal as they aren't over 6 foot, probably don't track back too well, and therefore would leave the team unbalanced? I might be way off piste here, but isn't the idea that you adapt your style/tactics to suit your new players, especially if those players are superior to the ones you already have, albeit they might not run round like daft fuckers, looking busy? Using your rationale, which is probably correct, we'd look past Defoe, even if we were offered him on a plate, because our manager is such a tactical dinosaur that he only has one, over-used tactics board down the Mich, and instead we'd pay more for Emile Heskey?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 22:14:07 GMT
he could have changed it at any time? really? Tuncay ??? i will tell you how long it takes, 25 years if needs be to establish and make sure we don't get relegated regardless of style to compete with the mancs and the london clubs realistically it's not a case of how long but it's more of a lifetime aspiration ??? Tuncay when he arrived was seen as a real coup and better than anything we had at the time, yet we didn't try and play to his strengths. We havent' really tried to play to Crouch's - he's had to adapt and luckily for us he's a class act and has. What evidence is there to suggest TP is about to change? Again, I'm not saying he's right or wrong to keep things the same, but you're saying he wants to change one minute and then saying it takes 25 years to do so the next?!? On a separate note, nobody's expecting us to compete with the Mancs, just to be a solid mid-table Prem side that approaches games positively and aims for a top half place and a cup run. And not to finish as the lowest scorers in the league.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 22:15:47 GMT
Its quite simple. The withdrawn striker in our system needs to be six foot or over and very hard working. He needs defensive discipline and the ability to mark certain players. The further forward striker needs to be six foot or over, be capable of pulling wide into the channels, have a trick or two in him and be able to take people on and create something from nothing. If you deviate from either role or both then you end up with something like this season - a team that looks stupid and unbalanced and one that simply doesn't create anything. So please tell me where Owen fits into that framework... So basically, this summer, we could be offered Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi in a swap deal for Walters, Jerome, and Mama, but there would be no point in doing the deal as they aren't over 6 foot, probably don't track back too well, and therefore would leave the team unbalanced? I might be way off piste here, but isn't the idea that you adapt your style/tactics to suit your new players, especially if those players are superior to the ones you already have, albeit they might not run round like daft fuckers, looking busy? Using your rationale, which is probably correct, we'd look past Defoe, even if we were offered him on a plate, because our manager is such a tactical dinosaur that he only has one, over-used tactics board down the Mich, and instead we'd pay more for Emile Heskey? More like we'd sign Defoe and play him on the wing once he couldn't do the job we were asking him to do. You do realise that what you've described in your post is actually what's happened over the course of the TP era don't you? Who has TP adapted his style for?
|
|
|
Post by StokieBoy31 on May 17, 2012 22:17:03 GMT
I'd love Owen at Stoke!
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 17, 2012 22:25:56 GMT
Have to agree with Mr Robvandeurzen,
The style will not adapt for players, players will adapt for the system or they will not play.
|
|
|
Post by chattyladypotter on May 17, 2012 22:27:11 GMT
he could have changed it at any time? really? Tuncay ??? i will tell you how long it takes, 25 years if needs be to establish and make sure we don't get relegated regardless of style to compete with the mancs and the london clubs realistically it's not a case of how long but it's more of a lifetime aspiration ??? Tuncay when he arrived was seen as a real coup and better than anything we had at the time, yet we didn't try and play to his strengths. We havent' really tried to play to Crouch's - he's had to adapt and luckily for us he's a class act and has. What evidence is there to suggest TP is about to change? Again, I'm not saying he's right or wrong to keep things the same, but you're saying he wants to change one minute and then saying it takes 25 years to do so the next?!? On a separate note, nobody's expecting us to compete with the Mancs, just to be a solid mid-table Prem side that approaches games positively and aims for a top half place and a cup run. And not to finish as the lowest scorers in the league. i said what if he wants to change? that is not the same as saying he's about to change, a top half place every season is a realistic target for the next 5 years in my opinion but finishing 12th 13th or 14th would be amazing if we have not featured in relegation zone and year on year we attract better players and ever so slightly improve... i am well happy
|
|
|
Post by bunnyscfc on May 17, 2012 22:27:14 GMT
didn't Michael (sorry, Mike) Owen retire from football half a decade ago?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 22:29:13 GMT
Tuncay when he arrived was seen as a real coup and better than anything we had at the time, yet we didn't try and play to his strengths. We havent' really tried to play to Crouch's - he's had to adapt and luckily for us he's a class act and has. What evidence is there to suggest TP is about to change? Again, I'm not saying he's right or wrong to keep things the same, but you're saying he wants to change one minute and then saying it takes 25 years to do so the next?!? On a separate note, nobody's expecting us to compete with the Mancs, just to be a solid mid-table Prem side that approaches games positively and aims for a top half place and a cup run. And not to finish as the lowest scorers in the league. i said what if he wants to change? that is not the same as saying he's about to change, a top half place every season is a realistic target for the next 5 years in my opinion but finishing 12th 13th or 14th would be amazing if we have not featured in relegation zone and year on year we attract better players and ever so slightly improve... i am well happy I'm happy finishing 12th, 13th, 14th as long as we're actually trying to win games and not boring teams into submission. There are no signs that TP wants to change. I hope he will, there's a chance he might be forced to, but everything points to him being entirely happy with how things are.
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 17, 2012 22:29:39 GMT
Tuncay when he arrived was seen as a real coup and better than anything we had at the time, yet we didn't try and play to his strengths. We havent' really tried to play to Crouch's - he's had to adapt and luckily for us he's a class act and has. What evidence is there to suggest TP is about to change? Again, I'm not saying he's right or wrong to keep things the same, but you're saying he wants to change one minute and then saying it takes 25 years to do so the next?!? On a separate note, nobody's expecting us to compete with the Mancs, just to be a solid mid-table Prem side that approaches games positively and aims for a top half place and a cup run. And not to finish as the lowest scorers in the league. i said what if he wants to change? that is not the same as saying he's about to change, a top half place every season is a realistic target for the next 5 years in my opinion but finishing 12th 13th or 14th would be amazing if we have not featured in relegation zone and year on year we attract better players and ever so slightly improve... i am well happy He won't want to change, big name players mean nothing if they don't fit the system, I agree staying in the division for the next 5 years would be incredible, but the same type of player will always be picked.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on May 17, 2012 22:31:27 GMT
The signing of Michael Owen is simply one for commercial purposes. He remains one of the biggest names in world football. The club will make an absolute killing in replica shirts. Forget about how he will fit into our system. as he will only play against Grimsby in the FA Cup. You can't seriously think we would make the Owen signing pay on the back of flogging replica shirts with his name on the back? Let's be generous and say the club make £1 on the sales of every replica shirt then we would need to sell INCREMENTAL shirts with the name of "Owen" on the back to the tune of 5 million or so just to cover his wages I mean we might sell another 2000 or so maximum...
|
|
bogshed
Youth Player
BOOOOOOM!!
Posts: 395
|
Post by bogshed on May 17, 2012 23:37:59 GMT
What did you tell me Boggy? ??? That this one could well be on the cards. Pulis will be salivating at the the very idea of having Michael Owen in his squad. Having properly thought about it though, it's all romantic nonsense that we should steer well clear of.
|
|
|
Post by canadianmoose on May 17, 2012 23:46:40 GMT
The sad thing is, a fit Owen playing off Crouch in a proper two up front could be devastating.
Two problems. One, Owen is rarely fit and two, we know TP doesn't really do the proper front two thing.
|
|
|
Post by Groundhog Day on May 17, 2012 23:51:34 GMT
What a deluded load of fuckers we are!
This would be a huge signing. Who the fuck do we think we are?
|
|
|
Post by vancouverstokie on May 18, 2012 3:39:07 GMT
Was this talked about the in the summer befor are first season in the Prem , or am I just dreaming , or is this a day ja vue moment thats going to happen every 4 years or so ?
|
|
|
Post by rawli on May 18, 2012 4:13:15 GMT
The signing of Michael Owen is simply one for commercial purposes. He remains one of the biggest names in world football. The club will make an absolute killing in replica shirts. Forget about how he will fit into our system. as he will only play against Grimsby in the FA Cup. Who are these legion of Michael Owen fans? Deluded to think that he's worth having as a shirt seller. Neither we or him are glamorous enough to sell shirts to non Stoke supporters.
|
|
|
Post by darksideofthemoon on May 18, 2012 5:04:44 GMT
I was salivating at the idea of getting Owen this time last year.....I still am.....he still has a touch of class and I think could fit hand in glove with Crouch. He doesn't want to play Championship football, and knows that he can't realistically look at a top tier club for his future....as far as I'm concerned.....................................................GO GET HIM TONE!!! PS - I think that anyone that doesn't want to sign M Owen esq. (on the right terms), has got rocks in their head!!!
|
|