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Post by cousindupree on Apr 16, 2012 13:02:31 GMT
If Chelsea win the fa cup then the next placed team in the prem will get that place....currently Everton on 47. After that a whole host of teams....Beat Everton and who knows  |
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Post by foster on Apr 16, 2012 13:05:41 GMT
We would need 1) Liverpool to finish top 6 and 2) Chelsea to finish top 6 and 3) To finish 7th.
Not likely.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 16, 2012 13:14:05 GMT
Is there no way or set of circumstances which could see the 8th placed team qualify for Europa league?
Top 4 - As is - Champions League
5th - Chelsea - Qualify by virtue of winning FA Cup
6th - Newcastle - Qualify by virtue of League position
7th - Liverpool - Qualify by virtue of winning Carling Cup
8th - Everton/Stoke/Sunderland/Fulham - Qualify by league position
Either way, to have any chance of qualifying for Europa league again, we will need to finish above Everton and I don't think we are quite capable of doing that unless we somehow manage to win 1 of our remaining 2 away games and winning all of our home matches. 4 wins from 5 games is a big ask.
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Post by cousindupree on Apr 16, 2012 13:15:13 GMT
1) Liverpool already qualified for Europa. Accept we need Chelsea to win champs league to give their Europa place to Everton or other.
Dave has it right
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Post by foster on Apr 16, 2012 13:17:08 GMT
We only get 3 Europa League places.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 16, 2012 13:21:48 GMT
Foster - if we only get 3 Europa League spots, it is irrelevant where Chelsea and Liverpool finish.
Liverpool have already qualified courtesy of their Carling Cup win and Chelsea, will qualify by league position and also if they win the FA Cup.
If Chelsea were to win the Champions League, they would play in the Champions League and Spurs would drop into Europa League even if they finished 4th.
If you are correct with your 3 places assertion, then Newcastle are nailed on for the 3rd place, courtesy of their league position and no-one else has a chance.
EDIT - on this basis, the only teams capable of playing Europa League football next season are Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool and Newcastle. One of these 4 will play Champions League with the others in the Europa League.
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Post by cousindupree on Apr 16, 2012 13:23:11 GMT
We actually get 4
5th Place.....Newcastle
Carling cup...Liverpool
FA CUP.....Chelsea win or lose but if they win Champs league that place goes to next highest finisher in prem
Fair play league...feckin swansea
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Post by foster on Apr 16, 2012 13:29:38 GMT
Yes, that is correct. Europa League will go 5th / 6th and Liverpool.
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Post by foster on Apr 16, 2012 13:30:05 GMT
Is that fair play league every year?
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Post by burberrybassist on Apr 16, 2012 13:36:23 GMT
I didn't think Cardiff or Swansea were allowed to enter European Cup competitions as they play their football in a differant country, may of been dreaming but sure I heard it mentioned when Cardiff reached the FA cup final few years back.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 16, 2012 13:47:19 GMT
The Fair play winners from each country get entered into a ballot.
Just because you are top of the Fair Play league in your own country doesn't automatically mean that you qualify for the Europa League.
Fulham got lucky this year but had to start their season early in July.
How did this seasons Europa League places get attained?
Spurs - 5th place in league
Stoke - FA Cup Runners up (Man City in CL so their spot passed to runners up)
Birmingham - Carling Cup Winners
Fulham - Fair Play ballot???
By rights then, there is actually only 1 place available courtesy of league finish (5th position) unless there is duplication in terms of league positions and cup winners. Is that correct?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 16, 2012 14:01:00 GMT
The fair play ballot no longer exists Dave and yes the sixth and seventh placed teams in the Prem can qualify, we have three places PLUS a potential fourth place if a 'fair play' team meets the criteria ... "The team placed fifth in the Premier League automatically qualifies for the UEFA Europa League, and the sixth and seventh-placed teams can also qualify, depending on the winners and runners-up of the two domestic cup competitions. Two Europa League places are reserved for the winner of each of the domestic cup competitions; if the winner of the FA Cup qualifies for the Champions League, then that place will go to the runner-up, and if the runner-up is also already qualified, then that place will go to the next-best placed finisher in the Premier League. If the winner of the League Cup has already qualified, that place goes to the next-best placed team in the league.[26][27] A further place in the UEFA Europa League is also available via the Fair Play initiative. If the Premier League has one of the three highest Fair Play rankings in Europe, the highest ranked team in the Premier League Fair Play standings which has not already qualified for Europe will automatically qualify for the UEFA Europa League first qualifying round.[28]"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League |
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Post by foster on Apr 16, 2012 14:04:04 GMT
The Fair play winners from each country get entered into a ballot. Just because you are top of the Fair Play league in your own country doesn't automatically mean that you qualify for the Europa League. Fulham got lucky this year but had to start their season early in July. How did this seasons Europa League places get attained? Spurs - 5th place in league Stoke - FA Cup Runners up (Man City in CL so their spot passed to runners up) Birmingham - Carling Cup Winners Fulham - Fair Play ballot??? By rights then, there is actually on 1 place available courtesy of league finish unless there is duplication in terms of league positions and cup winners. Is that correct? Yes, that is right, although it's easier to think of it as 5th and 6th being available mate. Doesn't matter now that Chelsea are qualified via the FA cup as they are going to qualify for it via the league (at least). if they get top 4, it goes to 6th. If they don't then they're in the league position to qualify anyway. |
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Apr 16, 2012 14:48:35 GMT
So to summerise thread, there is 79% more chance of me emptying my sack over Hayley Williams chest than there is of Stoke being in Europe next year?
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Apr 16, 2012 14:52:09 GMT
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Post by ladyinred on Apr 16, 2012 15:12:26 GMT
Just shows what a joke the 'subjective Fair Play league is'. Teams can qualify for european competition based on opinion. Blackpool would've qualified if in any match they had been awarded an extra 'respect' point. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 16, 2012 15:19:50 GMT
Clear as mud it is then!  |
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Post by staffordstokie999 on Apr 16, 2012 15:50:37 GMT
I didn't think Cardiff or Swansea were allowed to enter European Cup competitions as they play their football in a differant country, may of been dreaming but sure I heard it mentioned when Cardiff reached the FA cup final few years back. i think they can at the moment, but the Welsh FA have invited them to play in the Welsh cup which will virtually guarantee one of them can qualify every year. |
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Post by foster on Apr 16, 2012 16:53:52 GMT
So to summerise thread, there is 79% more chance of me emptying my sack over Hayley Williams chest than there is of Stoke being in Europe next year? Probably more chance of Stoke qualifying via the 14th League position tbh. |
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Post by stayingupforalasrimmed on Apr 16, 2012 17:03:25 GMT
If we were not playing in europe this eason, i rekon we'd easily have got six more points than we have now, so paradoxically playing in europe this year has prevent us next.
Maybe every other year is a reasonable expectation/aspiration!
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 16, 2012 17:04:17 GMT
I didn't think Cardiff or Swansea were allowed to enter European Cup competitions as they play their football in a differant country, may of been dreaming but sure I heard it mentioned when Cardiff reached the FA cup final few years back. i think they can at the moment, but the Welsh FA have invited them to play in the Welsh cup which will virtually guarantee one of them can qualify every year. I am unaware of any recent changes, but one of them used to qualify for Europe every year by winning the Welsh fa cup until it was pointed out they should to be in the League of Wales and not the English leagues if they want to enter it any more. They opted for the English leagues because they are not insane. |
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Post by foster on Apr 16, 2012 17:05:24 GMT
Just to clarify, we would need to finish 6th, so more than 6 points needed.
However, I'm not denying that the Europa League hasn't had a negative impact on our league performances.
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Post by stayingupforalasrimmed on Apr 16, 2012 17:08:38 GMT
Just to clarify, we would need to finish 6th, so more than 6 points needed. However, I'm not denying that the Europa League hasn't had a negative impact on our league performances. I still believe we'll finish 8th but you've got me on the stats. At least until the end of the season... |
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Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 16, 2012 19:52:20 GMT
Do we want another season in the Europa so soon - A season to develop and with a much smaller squad would be infinitely better for the development of SCFC. I think Europa League whilst great in some ways has set us back a season
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 16, 2012 20:48:52 GMT
Where do I sign for another year in Europe.
I would want it every season and without it, this season would have been ultra dull.
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Post by werrington on Apr 16, 2012 20:51:06 GMT
Where do I sign for another year in Europe. I would want it every season and without it, this season would have been ultra dull. Agree with that Dave.....although me bank balance would struggle every season mate  |
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Post by foster on Apr 17, 2012 9:06:14 GMT
Do we want another season in the Europa so soon - A season to develop and with a much smaller squad would be infinitely better for the development of SCFC. I think Europa League whilst great in some ways has set us back a season Depends how you look at it mate. Pros - Money - Europe wide recognition - Ability to attract better players - More games - Increase to 4* on Fifa 12 Cons - Fatigue - Negative impact on league performances - Reluctance to clear out deadwood - maintaining squad depth Specific to attracting players. I doubt that we could have signed WP or Crouch had we not qualified for Europe. And now that they're here it makes us an even more attractive prospect as we're perceived to have greater potential. We now have a great opportunity to upgrade the team this summer. |
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