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Post by ukcstokie on Apr 3, 2012 10:11:47 GMT
Could Kevin Doyle be the upgrade on the Walters role?
Looks like TP won't drop the role so we at least need competition for SJW. Doyle always seems to work hard and has a physical presence too.
I know Fletcher is probably the better of the two, but he'd just add competition to the striker playing up top and wouldn't be happy on the bench behind Crouch.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 3, 2012 10:14:18 GMT
Was thinking about this the other day. Wouldn't be unhappy if he came to Stoke.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 3, 2012 10:16:03 GMT
Pulis has unsuccessfully tried to sign him before, when he first came over from Ireland.
I think we'll be in for him in the summer but have a funny feeling he'll end up with O'Neill at Sunderland.
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Post by stokieboothen on Apr 3, 2012 10:17:39 GMT
Wouldn't mind him...although i did think the same about Kitson when they were both at Reading...
Fletcher is the better of the two, but Doyle is definitely more a stoke type player
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 3, 2012 10:21:31 GMT
Some Wolves fans don't think he's the same player after a bad injury.
He was their blue-eyed boy, but doesn't seem to be now.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 3, 2012 10:26:10 GMT
Oh goody another player who cant score but puts a shift in
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Post by LGH87 on Apr 3, 2012 10:37:58 GMT
i mentioned this to a Wolves fan i know the other day....and he honestly believes that Walters is the better of the two, and fully expects him to start alongside Keane at the Euro's............
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Apr 3, 2012 10:40:12 GMT
The only 2 players I would take from the dingles are Jarvis and Fletcher. The others are dog shit and would not improve us.
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Post by miltonpotterfan on Apr 3, 2012 10:47:23 GMT
Kyle Lightbourne is a upgrade on him.
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Post by stokieboothen on Apr 3, 2012 10:58:17 GMT
Kyle Lightbourne is a upgrade on him. +1, bring him back!! ;D
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Post by jarhead on Apr 3, 2012 11:05:57 GMT
Oh goody another player who cant score but puts a shift in Just what I was thinking! Couldn't finish his dinner like Walters!
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Post by ukcstokie on Apr 3, 2012 13:03:40 GMT
Also seem to remember that isn't Doyle's brother (who is also his agent) a Stoke fan?
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Post by ohbottom on Apr 3, 2012 13:17:53 GMT
I actually think someone like Gylfi Sigurdsson would be ideal. The "JW" role in a Pulis team is effectively the first line of defence, so why play a <ahem> "striker" there? May as well play an attacking mf. Who knows, maybe even Arismendi might be able to do a job there in a year or 3?
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 3, 2012 13:30:48 GMT
I actually think someone like Gylfi Sigurdsson would be ideal. The "JW" role in a Pulis team is effectively the first line of defence, so why play a <ahem> "striker" there? May as well play an attacking mf. Who knows, maybe even Arismendi might be able to do a job there in a year or 3? I've mentioned something similar before. It equates to playing a more orthodox 4-5-1 but would it be any less forward thinking than we currently are? To my mind we will always have two midfielders sitting deep so if we could get a talented, mobile (dare I say fast?) ball player to link us from back to front and who can feed the wide players as well as chipping in with goals, then we could just be onto a winner. I'd see it like this (assuming Palacios gets fit) Palacios A N Other Proper ball player Pennant Ethers Crouch Now clearly it's not too dissimilar to what we already have but we'd significantly upgrade JW and allow the wingers a role slightly higher up the pitch. The "proper ball player" needs to be someone who can help out in midfield when we lose the ball but who can also make late runs into the box and support Crouch (who we would then hopefully see the best of by him having someone who can pass to his feet.) Obviously this mythical player wouldn't come cheap but could potentially make a huge difference to us.
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Post by alexk on Apr 3, 2012 13:38:46 GMT
We need somebody fast and capable of scoring. Not sure how Kevin Doyle would help with either of those.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 3, 2012 13:40:01 GMT
I actually think someone like Gylfi Sigurdsson would be ideal. The "JW" role in a Pulis team is effectively the first line of defence, so why play a <ahem> "striker" there? May as well play an attacking mf. Who knows, maybe even Arismendi might be able to do a job there in a year or 3? I've mentioned something similar before. It equates to playing a more orthodox 4-5-1 but would it be any less forward thinking than we currently are? To my mind we will always have two midfielders sitting deep so if we could get a talented, mobile (dare I say fast?) ball player to link us from back to front and who can feed the wide players as well as chipping in with goals, then we could just be onto a winner. I'd see it like this (assuming Palacios gets fit) Palacios A N Other Proper ball player Pennant Ethers Crouch Now clearly it's not too dissimilar to what we already have but we'd significantly upgrade JW and allow the wingers a role slightly higher up the pitch. The "proper ball player" needs to be someone who can help out in midfield when we lose the ball but who can also make late runs into the box and support Crouch (who we would then hopefully see the best of by him having someone who can pass to his feet.) Obviously this mythical player wouldn't come cheap but could potentially make a huge difference to us. If you sat down and thought about it, you could actually argue that it would be more forward thinking than we've got at present.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 3, 2012 13:41:17 GMT
I've mentioned something similar before. It equates to playing a more orthodox 4-5-1 but would it be any less forward thinking than we currently are? To my mind we will always have two midfielders sitting deep so if we could get a talented, mobile (dare I say fast?) ball player to link us from back to front and who can feed the wide players as well as chipping in with goals, then we could just be onto a winner. I'd see it like this (assuming Palacios gets fit) Palacios A N Other Proper ball player Pennant Ethers Crouch Now clearly it's not too dissimilar to what we already have but we'd significantly upgrade JW and allow the wingers a role slightly higher up the pitch. The "proper ball player" needs to be someone who can help out in midfield when we lose the ball but who can also make late runs into the box and support Crouch (who we would then hopefully see the best of by him having someone who can pass to his feet.) Obviously this mythical player wouldn't come cheap but could potentially make a huge difference to us. If you sat down and thought about it, you could actually argue that it would be more forward thinking than we've got at present. I think it is, mate as you'd think we'd create more chances from open play. Not saying it would work but it's just my view on it.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 3, 2012 13:46:51 GMT
If you sat down and thought about it, you could actually argue that it would be more forward thinking than we've got at present. I think it is, mate as you'd think we'd create more chances from open play. Not saying it would work but it's just my view on it. We've already seen the potential of that system away at Valencia. The problem is that TP sees his squad so neatly and regimentally split into two groups and his first group don't fit that formation at all. Arismendi played the role of the 'ball player' quite well and got forward with ease. Im surprised we haven't seen it again for any length of time since because i was convinced that was the road he was starting to go down.
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Post by ohbottom on Apr 3, 2012 13:50:13 GMT
If you sat down and thought about it, you could actually argue that it would be more forward thinking than we've got at present. I think it is, mate as you'd think we'd create more chances from open play. Not saying it would work but it's just my view on it. Agree with all this. Think of it as 4-2-3-1 rather than 4-5-1. One proviso though, I think we'd need to upgrade the full backs to allow Ethers & JP a bit more freedom.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 3, 2012 14:00:29 GMT
I think it is, mate as you'd think we'd create more chances from open play. Not saying it would work but it's just my view on it. Agree with all this. Think of it as 4-2-3-1 rather than 4-5-1. One proviso though, I think we'd need to upgrade the full backs to allow Ethers & JP a bit more freedom. Yeah that's probably right, mate. I don't think you'd have to worry about them being very forward thinking in that system either. Palacios is good enough to link the ball into the "mythical" player and most stuff can then go through him. We can still use the diagonal "out ball" from the full backs as Crouch will invariably win some even though it's not his strength.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2012 14:07:05 GMT
He's not especially a fast ball player but I thought someone like Gardner at Sunderland would be ideal for it.
And as a way of looking at evolution, You only have to look at how Spurs used Crouch last season. For me in our team Crouch is deprived of having similar quality footballers around him. Last season he linked excellently with Van der Vaart. Now we're not going to sign someone as good as him obviously but how they worked together could show the way forward.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 3, 2012 14:23:49 GMT
He's not especially a fast ball player but I thought someone like Gardner at Sunderland would be ideal for it. And as a way of looking at evolution, You only have to look at how Spurs used Crouch last season. For me in our team Crouch is deprived of having similar quality footballers around him. Last season he linked excellently with Van der Vaart. Now we're not going to sign someone as good as him obviously but how they worked together could show the way forward. I resisted using the VdV example, mate due to the inevitable "so you think Stoke can sign him" replies that I'd get! He is the type of player I had in mind, obviously he is better than we could get but the idea is still the same. I did use the term "fast" but fast thinking with the ability to commit defenders by running at them would be perfect.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Apr 3, 2012 14:56:06 GMT
I think the way forward may be 4-3-3 with one winger and a midfield three. The winger can be left or right in any given game but we need Ethers, Pennant and one other in my view (that's even if Jermaine stays). Diao (and Delap)shouldn't be anywhere near the First XI next season so we need to make our mind up about Arismendi soon enough and get another midfielder in....preferably left footed to help with the balance on that side of the pitch for when we play a winger on the right. Palacios has to come good next season and then it's a case of who plays with him and the new midfielder. Jones will go....£6 million would be good business, We put that and a few million more and get someone who Crouch can really link with. Hell, I'd let Ric go and also invest in a young Championship striker too (Jay Rodriguez would be my choice) to give us another option. Walters will be here forever and I don't think Pulis is ready to admit he's wrong about Jerome just yet although the player himself might want away before the January window.
With a new left back (I'd put Wilson back at right back and see how he does) in addition we may just be able to significantly tweak how we're set up. And pigs might fly......
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Post by yogibear78 on Apr 3, 2012 16:01:43 GMT
No better than Walters. Don't worry anyway Sidibe will be back soon
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Post by march4 on Apr 3, 2012 17:01:12 GMT
Don't worry anyway Sidibe will be back soon Thank God for that. Go to your drinks cabinet and celebrate that wonderful news.
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Post by Irish Stokie on Apr 3, 2012 17:18:34 GMT
i mentioned this to a Wolves fan i know the other day....and he honestly believes that Walters is the better of the two, and fully expects him to start alongside Keane at the Euro's............ Well your mates wrong as Walters is behind Keane, Doyle, Long and even Cox in the pecking order at the minute and Trap is not one for making big changes to his sides. Doyle is a decent player but a shadow of his former self through injury. He will never be a prolific scorer as that's not his game, and he's not a massive upgrade on Walters so we should look elsewhere IMO. If we are looking at Wolves though we could do an awful lot worse than Jarvis and I think Fletcher could do well here although they'll want a stupid fee for him. If Kightly can get back to his form before the injuries then he could also do a job and give us much needed numbers for the wide positions.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 3, 2012 17:22:01 GMT
VDV and Crouch didn't work though did it? Many Spurs fans felt that it was specifically that partnership or lack of it, that led to Spurs falling out of the Champions League spots.
As further evidence, Crouch scored only 3 goals last season in a team that would surely have created more than we have done this season.
Crouch and Defoe worked brilliantly together two seasons ago and Spurs got a Champions League spot as a result. Last season, the partnership didn't work and Spurs had a little fall from grace, having to accept a spot in the Europa league instead.
There are lots of discussions about the type of partner Crouch needs but the truth is he needs one genuine strike partner and one midfield player capable of supporting him from a deeper position if we are to get the best out of him.
To get the best out of Crouch, we need to tweek the way we play, particularly against teams at our level or below. We need to dispense with Walters and get him a decent forward partner and we need to unlock the cage door.
Anything else will see continued debate and frustration.
As for Doyle...No thanks, unless we are getting rid of both Walters and Jerome and which point he would be a useful type of replacement for this style of player. We have too many identical type players in our squad which is part of the reason we have no plan B. Change Walters for Jerome = not a lot of difference and so on for the rest of the team in key positions.
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Post by sutekh on Apr 3, 2012 17:38:55 GMT
The forward that i wish we had gone for is shane long.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Apr 3, 2012 17:43:23 GMT
I don't get the Crouch debate.
He scores 4 in an ultra attacking Tottenham team, alongside great players like Modric, Van der Vaart and Bale yet comes to Stoke, with a team that only scores 11 from open play in the league and he scores 8 league goals in 25 or 12 goals in all compeitions (in 33 appearances overall) and we're told he doesn't fit the system?
I kind of agree that he doesn't but any striker that gets over 10 goals in this team is doing something right IMO.
Last season for Tottenham, he scored only 11 goals overall, in all competitions in 45 appearances. He's already beat that at little old, negative Stoke this season.
The season before he only scored 13 in 47 appearances as Tottenham made the Champions League.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 18:14:45 GMT
Dave johhno
I could not agree more , very astute unfortunately the only way you will get that is a upgrade in the dug out, not sure why it's heresy to suggest it but it is,we all want better players ,including TP and mangers often come cheaper.
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