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Post by philm87 on Mar 30, 2012 20:41:14 GMT
I've have recently returned from the dark corner of tinternet known as 'Comment is Free' on the Guardian website.
I was defending The Mighty Potters from the glory-hunting, Barca bumming, armchair gang as they hurled prawn sandwiches at me through cyber space when I happened across a Leicester fan. I asked him how Ben Marshall was getting on.
He basically said that Marshall is not an out and out winger. He played wide on the right for the first few games and didn't look too useful there. The last couple of games they have changed formation and Marshall has played in a central attacking midfield role and done a lot better there. He also said that he is definitely not PL quality.
Obviously this is just one bloke's opinion, but having never seen the lad play myself and just read on here what others thought... I was under the impression he was some kind of wonderkid?
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Mar 30, 2012 20:52:14 GMT
Oh dear.
I tried something similar earlier in the season when I relayed a message from a Charlton fan who saw him at Hillsbrough - who said he wasn't up to the level of Etherington and/or Pennant.
It fell on deaf ears.
Best start making the noose mate. ;D
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Mar 30, 2012 21:00:45 GMT
I don't remember anyone calling him a wonder kid.
He has played wide right all of his professional career although I have seen him play in several positions when he was at the Crewe Academy.
He is simply a good young prospect which is something as a club we are not exactly awash with. I imagine that's why people are disappointed our club is not capable/interested/committed of/in/to.
Who knows where his career will go to never mind what his best position turns out to be. The view of a single Leicester fan doesn't change a jot of this as far as I can see.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Mar 30, 2012 21:05:57 GMT
I don't remember anyone calling him a wonder kid. He has played wide right all of his professional career although I have seen him play in several positions when he was at the Crewe Academy. He is simply a good young prospect which is something as a club we are not exactly awash with. I imagine that's why people are disappointed our club is not capable/interested/committed of/in/to. Who knows where his career will go to never mind what his best position turns out to be. The view of a single Leicester fan doesn't change a jot of this as far as I can see. Your post tells a story in itself.
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Post by Trouserdog on Mar 30, 2012 21:32:10 GMT
Everything is always so black and white to some isn't it?
Marshall does everything that could be expected of him on loan, we're crying out for some cover out-wide and people want to see him given a chance. A chance to show that if as a young player you do the business elsewhere, your development will be valued by Stoke City and the club will give you the opportunity to make it here.
To some people though this wish translates as MARSHALL IS THE NEXT MESSI AND MUST PLAY EVERY GAME.
It's the same with the Crouch debate. Valid comment and discussion on the best kind of player to suit the system and question marks whether Crouch, as good as he is individually, is the best kind of striker to lead the line =
CROUCH IS SHIT.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Mar 30, 2012 21:40:34 GMT
Everything is always so black and white to some isn't it? Marshall does everything that could be expected of him on loan, we're crying out for some cover out-wide and people want to see him given a chance. A chance to show that if as a young player you do the business elsewhere, your development will be valued by Stoke City and the club will give you the opportunity to make it here. To some people though this wish translates as MARSHALL IS THE NEXT MESSI AND MUST PLAY EVERY GAME. It's the same with the Crouch debate. Valid comment and discussion on the best kind of player to suit the system and question marks whether Crouch, as good as he is individually, is the best kind of striker to lead the line = CROUCH IS SHIT. He performed well, according to the Sheffield Wednesday lot, at League One level. The next plan obviously was to send him out to a championship club - a la Shotton. Pulis is a simple beast at the best of times. You can read him like a book and his intentions with young ones are simple. 'I'll judge your starting level and you make your way up to the Premiership'. I honestly can't find an argument because to be totally frank, i'm still waiting for a club to take a punt on a League One standard player. I've yet to see it. A very good Championship player - yes. A very good League One player? No. I'm still waiting for a Premier League team to take a huge punt on Jordan Rhodes, for example. To me, the same logic applies to a youth product that is being fed through the pyramid. Only Ben Marshall can tell you and I as to why he turned the contract down that Ryan Shotton didn't - regardless of their respective abilities.
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Post by roylandstoke on Mar 30, 2012 21:43:08 GMT
Everything is always so black and white to some isn't it? Marshall does everything that could be expected of him on loan, we're crying out for some cover out-wide and people want to see him given a chance. A chance to show that if as a young player you do the business elsewhere, your development will be valued by Stoke City and the club will give you the opportunity to make it here. To some people though this wish translates as MARSHALL IS THE NEXT MESSI AND MUST PLAY EVERY GAME. It's the same with the Crouch debate. Valid comment and discussion on the best kind of player to suit the system and question marks whether Crouch, as good as he is individually, is the best kind of striker to lead the line = CROUCH IS SHIT. This board can be very frustrating.
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Post by roylandstoke on Mar 30, 2012 21:47:07 GMT
Everything is always so black and white to some isn't it? Marshall does everything that could be expected of him on loan, we're crying out for some cover out-wide and people want to see him given a chance. A chance to show that if as a young player you do the business elsewhere, your development will be valued by Stoke City and the club will give you the opportunity to make it here. To some people though this wish translates as MARSHALL IS THE NEXT MESSI AND MUST PLAY EVERY GAME. It's the same with the Crouch debate. Valid comment and discussion on the best kind of player to suit the system and question marks whether Crouch, as good as he is individually, is the best kind of striker to lead the line = CROUCH IS SHIT. He performed well, according to the Sheffield Wednesday lot, at League One level. The next plan obviously was to send him out to a championship club - a la Shotton. Pulis is a simple beast at the best of times. You can read him like a book and his intentions with young ones are simple. 'I'll judge your starting level and you make your way up to the Premiership'. I honestly can't find an argument because to be totally frank, i'm still waiting for a club to take a punt on a League One standard player. I've yet to see it. A very good Championship player - yes. A very good League One player? No. I'm still waiting for a Premier League team to take a huge punt on Jordan Rhodes, for example. To me, the same logic applies to a youth product that is being fed through the pyramid. Only Ben Marshall can tell you and I as to why he turned the contract down that Ryan Shotton didn't - regardless of their respective abilities. Anthony Pilkington seems to have managed the jump from Huddersfield to the Prem OK. It is possible.
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Post by Trouserdog on Mar 30, 2012 21:54:06 GMT
Everything is always so black and white to some isn't it? Marshall does everything that could be expected of him on loan, we're crying out for some cover out-wide and people want to see him given a chance. A chance to show that if as a young player you do the business elsewhere, your development will be valued by Stoke City and the club will give you the opportunity to make it here. To some people though this wish translates as MARSHALL IS THE NEXT MESSI AND MUST PLAY EVERY GAME. It's the same with the Crouch debate. Valid comment and discussion on the best kind of player to suit the system and question marks whether Crouch, as good as he is individually, is the best kind of striker to lead the line = CROUCH IS SHIT. He performed well, according to the Sheffield Wednesday lot, at League One level. The next plan obviously was to send him out to a championship club - a la Shotton. Pulis is a simple beast at the best of times. You can read him like a book and his intentions with young ones are simple. 'I'll judge your starting level and you make your way up to the Premiership'. I honestly can't find an argument because to be totally frank, i'm still waiting for a club to take a punt on a League One standard player. I've yet to see it. A very good Championship player - yes. A very good League One player? No. I'm still waiting for a Premier League team to take a huge punt on Jordan Rhodes, for example. To me, the same logic applies to a youth product that is being fed through the pyramid. Only Ben Marshall can tell you and I as to why he turned the contract down that Ryan Shotton didn't - regardless of their respective abilities. Moving players up a league at a time is exactly the right thing to do. The problem is that you shouldn't let a player's contract run into the last 12 months if they do look like they've got a chance of making it. Showing some interest in their development is essential to. No-one knows what was said between Pulis and Marshall, but reading between the lines it seems the player came to the conclusion that the manager just wasn't interested in him.
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Post by philm87 on Mar 30, 2012 21:55:50 GMT
Everything is always so black and white to some isn't it? Marshall does everything that could be expected of him on loan, we're crying out for some cover out-wide and people want to see him given a chance. A chance to show that if as a young player you do the business elsewhere, your development will be valued by Stoke City and the club will give you the opportunity to make it here. To some people though this wish translates as MARSHALL IS THE NEXT MESSI AND MUST PLAY EVERY GAME. It's the same with the Crouch debate. Valid comment and discussion on the best kind of player to suit the system and question marks whether Crouch, as good as he is individually, is the best kind of striker to lead the line = CROUCH IS SHIT. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying Trousers. I'm not really black and white in the way I see things. I tend to have the fence post firmly up my arse on most issues. I don't really have a particular view on Marshall's ability as I said. Never seen him play so whatever I think of him as a player is just what I've picked up on here. I just found it interesting what the guy said. I was expecting him to say, 'Oh this guy's a great talent, why did you let him go?'. Perhaps the fact that his strongest position isn't necessarily out wide but through the middle influenced the club's decision? Perhaps he wanted some sort of guarantee that he would get some game time rather than biding his time? One thing I do know is that none of us know exactly what kind of contract he was offered and why he turned it down.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 30, 2012 22:16:06 GMT
There is a very simple reason as to why Marshall could not be offered a regular spot in the first team squad...... who would he drop?
On a normal week our bench would consist of
Sorro Upson Palacios Fuller Pennant/Shotton Jones Jerome
Marshall isn't a better winger than Pennant and doesn't give the cover that Shotton provides
So you are the manager - where do you play Marshall? The answer is that you don't. If you keep him in the squad he will get a game off the bench every couple of months. So you believe it best for his development for him to go out on loan again
Player doesn't accept it and moves on - not so easy is it? ???
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Mar 30, 2012 22:21:27 GMT
One thing I do know is that none of us know exactly what kind of contract he was offered and why he turned it down. I may not be able to quote you contract details Phil and wouldn't if I could. I can say that the contract he has at Leicester isn't the reason he is not at Stoke. That's down to what the player decided was best for the development as a footballer. That's what the player himself and the people who advise him say at any rate and I have no reason to doubt it. I can spot a fence post with only one arse cheek balanced on it as well, if you get my drift.
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Post by pmjh on Mar 30, 2012 23:48:22 GMT
I can't honestly see what the lads gained if it's not to do with money. If he had signed a new contract he would have been loaned out next season to a championship club, the level he's playing at now. He would still have been attached to a premiership club. Win win
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Post by stokeramblers on Mar 31, 2012 5:43:32 GMT
He performed well, according to the Sheffield Wednesday lot, at League One level. The next plan obviously was to send him out to a championship club - a la Shotton. Pulis is a simple beast at the best of times. You can read him like a book and his intentions with young ones are simple. 'I'll judge your starting level and you make your way up to the Premiership'. I honestly can't find an argument because to be totally frank, i'm still waiting for a club to take a punt on a League One standard player. I've yet to see it. A very good Championship player - yes. A very good League One player? No. I'm still waiting for a Premier League team to take a huge punt on Jordan Rhodes, for example. To me, the same logic applies to a youth product that is being fed through the pyramid. Only Ben Marshall can tell you and I as to why he turned the contract down that Ryan Shotton didn't - regardless of their respective abilities. Moving players up a league at a time is exactly the right thing to do. The problem is that you shouldn't let a player's contract run into the last 12 months if they do look like they've got a chance of making it. Showing some interest in their development is essential to. No-one knows what was said between Pulis and Marshall, but reading between the lines it seems the player came to the conclusion that the manager just wasn't interested in him. Didn't Pulis & the chairman rush to his bedside after the JPT final and reassured him he had a future at the club and that he'd be fully supported. According to Marshall's interview anyway. Marshall never thanked Stoke City only his loan clubs when he got his move to Leicester. Just seems to me like he got caught up in his own hype.
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Post by stokebill on Mar 31, 2012 6:47:47 GMT
www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlisle-united/latest/carlisle-utd-loan-ace-ben-marshall-thought-horror-tackle-had-ended-his-career-1.857105?referrerPath=homeBen Marshall was already preparing himself for possible bad news but when Stoke boss Tony Pulis insisted on accompanying him to hospital, the teenage winger’s head began reeling with dark thoughts.
“He is a brilliant bloke as he tells you straight and says whether or not you are doing well. All it will take is for me to pull him to one side and he will tell me the position. I want to kick on and my main aim is to play games next season.”
Something went wrong in the past 12 months, didn't it. Marshall obviously thought Pulis wouldn't trust him for some years to come and opted to fast track his career. History tells us that this might not be a wise move, but Marshall does seem destined for better than most youngsters from Stoke in recent times.
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