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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 15:04:24 GMT
I don't think that we can make that much of a conclusion from one match compared to seeing him in training weekly and in previous loans, which probably led to this decision. If he's good, he may well get better playing regular football elsewhere at a lower level, rather than thrusting him into the squad halfway through the season and then dropping him and denying him game time if he happens not to perform, which as far as I can see from previous loan reports isn't quite impossible. look, you've been on here long enough now to know that the coaching staff seeing players in training on a daily basis and monitoring them regularly whilst on loan at other clubs is NOTHING compared to fans who have seen him play in one game on the telly. when will people learn this?
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Post by bunnyscfc on Mar 16, 2012 15:06:32 GMT
correct.
What he's still doing on our books then, er, perhaps those who have seen one match on the telly can answer?
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Post by Gods on Mar 16, 2012 15:33:09 GMT
You don't come over from Uruguay just to get loaned out every 6 months to a different club. Surely his contract must be running out soon and if he's not good enough yet then we should sell him rather than pussy around with all these loan signings. As we seem to do with most of the deadwood. Good in theory but I suspect there are no buyers out there. No one who is willing to put up more than 300k or so anyway. Turgid loan spells at Brighton and Barnsley and now no Championship team willing to take him doesn't make for a strong market.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 15:33:25 GMT
such is the problem TP faces! don't get me wrong, i get infuriated by him as much as the next man but people criticise him for not buying overseas players so he buys one. then he gets moaned at because he isn't up to standard so he sends him on loan. then he gets moaned at for not giving him a chance in our team, so he is given chances (one of which he grabbed but that's all really) so he goes back out on loan to improve him further, then people moan because he's made a bad signing because he obviously still isn't good enough! tough crowd really isn't it! so basically, TP did what people have been asking him to do (bring in foreign talent) and obviously still sees some potential and has been hanging onto him to give him a chance of realising that but because he hasn't yet then it is all TP's fault for either a) making a bad signing or b) not throwing him into the first team half way through a season where we could still realistically finish top ten and therefore have our best finish for 30 years or c) realising that he isn't good enough at this level and selling him (where people would be up in arms for "wasting" over £2m..obviously no other manager takes a gamble that doesn't work out where money is wasted, it's just TP that does this isn't it ) fair enough, criticise TP when necessary but with this he really is onto a proper no -win situation with some on here
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Post by RAF on Mar 16, 2012 15:38:48 GMT
I suppose we can take solace in the fact that although we may have wasted 2.5 million on the lad that if he leaves he won't go on to bigger and better things. No player that TP has released or sold ever has apparently.
H
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Mar 16, 2012 15:39:26 GMT
Yes, but who actually 'bought' Arismendi? Was he scouted and recommended without Pulis having a massive input?
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Post by scfclifer on Mar 16, 2012 16:02:37 GMT
glad the kid is getting football games under his belt i just hope its not another marshall, diego has lots of promise ;d
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Post by nott1 on Mar 16, 2012 16:09:03 GMT
He'll now have to learn a new language eh bah gum!
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 16, 2012 16:11:54 GMT
Has he asked for too much money yet ???
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Post by skip on Mar 16, 2012 16:33:11 GMT
My main worry is that we spunked £2.75m (and rising) on him and he's still only considered good enough to be farmed out to a League One team after being with us for over two years. He's like a pair of posh shoes that you only get out of the cupboard for weddings/interviews/court appearances.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 16:36:04 GMT
such is the problem TP faces! don't get me wrong, i get infuriated by him as much as the next man but people criticise him for not buying overseas players so he buys one. then he gets moaned at because he isn't up to standard so he sends him on loan. then he gets moaned at for not giving him a chance in our team, so he is given chances (one of which he grabbed but that's all really) so he goes back out on loan to improve him further, then people moan because he's made a bad signing because he obviously still isn't good enough! tough crowd really isn't it! so basically, TP did what people have been asking him to do (bring in foreign talent) and obviously still sees some potential and has been hanging onto him to give him a chance of realising that but because he hasn't yet then it is all TP's fault for either a) making a bad signing or b) not throwing him into the first team half way through a season where we could still realistically finish top ten and therefore have our best finish for 30 years or c) realising that he isn't good enough at this level and selling him (where people would be up in arms for "wasting" over £2m..obviously no other manager takes a gamble that doesn't work out where money is wasted, it's just TP that does this isn't it ) fair enough, criticise TP when necessary but with this he really is onto a proper no -win situation with some on here Come on Millsy - Diego might well be the greatest midfielder who's ever lived, but three years on and he's yet to even see the bench for a league game (I think?) it's hard to argue he's not been a bad signing. Three million quid for a bloke you still wouldn't consider for a game you even remotely want to win doesn't scream 'onto a winner' to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 16:57:49 GMT
RVD that's exactly what i'm saying, personally i think it's similar to Marshall in that TP and the rest of the staff don't feel he's up to it as yet. When they saw that with Marshall they sold him and people complained that we should have held onto him to give him a chance,i think if he's gone out on loan again then it's either A) because he sees some potential but isn't ready yet (which if the case is good that TP is still willing to stand by him and also good that he isn't just being "slung in" to check when we're mid-way through a season) or B) he won't be good enough and is giving him a shop window for offers in the summer from clubs at the level he will be aimed at.
managers constantly take a gamble on player's because of their "Potential" but then it turns out that they don't progress any further and what the manager saw as potential was actually just the ceiling that the player would never get beyond. that may make it a bad buy but when it's a foreign player (who people have been screaming out at TP to look at..this time he did and bought him) who is young and unknown then it's always a gamble with any manager and any team that does it.
in other words he's young AND foreign but didn't progress any further than the level he was originally at when we bought him but at least TP gave it a go. if we are now saying that Pulis should only go for proven foreign players that we know will be quality and make the first team every week then we will seriously struggle for options as Stoke will most likely NOT be on that player's radar. we can't say "Defoe/Baines would never come to us, they're too good and we're still only Stoke" but then be confused why foreign players have exactly the same viewpoint.
If people want TP to go for young players or foreign players then it will ALWAYS be a gamble because we are simply not a side that proven, quality players here or abroad will be looking at.
What i'm saying is that he's onto a no-win situation because people want TP to go for young players and look aborad; Arismendi fits into both brackets and it may turn out he isn't good enough so he gets slated. if he buys proven players then they will have be older and then he will get slated for not looking at youth..can't win either way.
i'm 100% sure that if TP COULD get a young or foreign player that had proven ability at this level he would but the simple fact is that teams like us won't get them, they end up in the top half of our league or one of the other European leagues so any decision TP makes to get players in will always be a gamble.some gambles will pay off for managers, some won't but we're not in a position to get dead certs in either the young or foreign brackets.
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Post by oasis on Mar 16, 2012 17:27:16 GMT
"If he is a central midfielder (presuming he is?) he can be no worse than the 7 or 8 existing ones in the squad (fingers crossed, anyway....)" From their MB
You're telling us pal! He must be worth a go in the league, especially now we are safe and can play with (hopefully) more freedom!
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Post by philm87 on Mar 16, 2012 18:04:26 GMT
I reckon that Huddersfield fan must be pretty confused now. ;D
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Post by dadofsam on Mar 16, 2012 18:17:54 GMT
Pulis sees all our players all the time and I still don't trust him to see past his own predjuices
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Mar 16, 2012 19:03:27 GMT
Well we have always got Diao to slot in to give us that extra quality.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 19:07:40 GMT
RVD that's exactly what i'm saying, personally i think it's similar to Marshall in that TP and the rest of the staff don't feel he's up to it as yet. When they saw that with Marshall they sold him and people complained that we should have held onto him to give him a chance,i think if he's gone out on loan again then it's either A) because he sees some potential but isn't ready yet (which if the case is good that TP is still willing to stand by him and also good that he isn't just being "slung in" to check when we're mid-way through a season) or B) he won't be good enough and is giving him a shop window for offers in the summer from clubs at the level he will be aimed at. managers constantly take a gamble on player's because of their "Potential" but then it turns out that they don't progress any further and what the manager saw as potential was actually just the ceiling that the player would never get beyond. that may make it a bad buy but when it's a foreign player (who people have been screaming out at TP to look at..this time he did and bought him) who is young and unknown then it's always a gamble with any manager and any team that does it. in other words he's young AND foreign but didn't progress any further than the level he was originally at when we bought him but at least TP gave it a go. if we are now saying that Pulis should only go for proven foreign players that we know will be quality and make the first team every week then we will seriously struggle for options as Stoke will most likely NOT be on that player's radar. we can't say "Defoe/Baines would never come to us, they're too good and we're still only Stoke" but then be confused why foreign players have exactly the same viewpoint. If people want TP to go for young players or foreign players then it will ALWAYS be a gamble because we are simply not a side that proven, quality players here or abroad will be looking at. What i'm saying is that he's onto a no-win situation because people want TP to go for young players and look aborad; Arismendi fits into both brackets and it may turn out he isn't good enough so he gets slated. if he buys proven players then they will have be older and then he will get slated for not looking at youth..can't win either way. i'm 100% sure that if TP COULD get a young or foreign player that had proven ability at this level he would but the simple fact is that teams like us won't get them, they end up in the top half of our league or one of the other European leagues so any decision TP makes to get players in will always be a gamble.some gambles will pay off for managers, some won't but we're not in a position to get dead certs in either the young or foreign brackets. That's pretty black and white though Millsy. How about we actually have a proper scouting system in place and have some kind of evidence that a player is capable of doing the job we want them to before we spend money on them? I think it's different from the Marshall situation because we have a lot of central midfielders at the club and Diego hasn't done much out on loan when he's had the chance. Marshall had excelled on loan and we were playing a centre half on the wing. No wonder he saw the writing on the wall. I refuse to believe that a player who could earn such rave reviews playing out wide further down the totem pole could be a worse option in his natural position than a defender shoehorned out there.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Mar 16, 2012 19:51:10 GMT
From what I have heard, the lad has had major difficulty getting to know the country, the lingo and just vasic stuff having moved far from home.
The reports seem to suggest he is now settling in much more and starting to look a bit more like. Not sure if the Huddersfield move is good or will unsettle him - personally would of thought keeping him in stable set up may of helped more if he is to advance in England
Anyway, this sure as hell puts to bed the capped one's assertion that he was playing a strong team away at Valencia
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 16, 2012 21:14:01 GMT
On the one hand, I was hoping that we'd either keep him around the squad or get him out to a Championship team again.
On the other hand, Huddersfield's supporters are complaining about their deep lying central midfield who never leave their own half. The move seems to make some degree of sense then. ;D
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Post by skelman on Mar 16, 2012 23:08:03 GMT
Having seen him play in Valencia I can't believe that Arismendi is just a one game wonder!
Maybe we should have been working our 'championship network' better to help create a better development opportunity for him
** Marshall to Sheff Wed on loan then to Leicester. Arismendi to Huddersfield then to ?????
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Post by northantsash on Mar 17, 2012 8:53:05 GMT
hes not in the team for a simple reason, his natural game doesn't suit the tactics employed by pulis. we haven't seen enough of him to declare him to be consistently good, but each time i have seen him he has always looked comfortable on the ball and able to spot a simple pass to a team mate.
i know we all keep banging on about how good he was in valencia, but some of the runs he made with the ball closely controlled at his feet beating two or three players is something rarely seen by a stoke midfielder. delap struggles to keep pace, and sometimes whelan can't trap a bag of cement let alone a football.
as far as im concerned the lad has certainly deserved a chance to prove himself.
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Post by sirpineapple89 on Mar 17, 2012 9:54:54 GMT
I think the main frustration is the fact that Tony would rather having ageing and laboured players like Delap and Diao in the squad in front of him despite the fact they can barely get about the pitch any more.
Delap and Palacios weren't able to play against Norwich a couple of weeks aho so there was a spot going for a CM on the bench. Would it be the lad who impressed (well the fans at least) just ten days earlier, Arismendi or would it be the ageing, usueless Salif Diao who is loved so dearly (for fuck knows what reason)?
To not have even had him on the bench for a league game after 3 years is rubbish in my book. As are the decisions to extend the details of the likes of Diao and Delap because they're 'great lads'.
Arismendi probably won't turn into the new Vieria but to say he can't offer what Delap, Diao etc can't is rubbish.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Mar 17, 2012 12:03:02 GMT
I think with TP he wants players who carry out his instructions and stay in position , thats how he is , so if you dont show that in training you dont play
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 17, 2012 14:49:00 GMT
He's on the bench today.
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Post by frasier99 on Mar 17, 2012 15:29:28 GMT
That'll teach him to try and get into the opposition penalty area away from home. Hope he learns from this [/quote Sniggers ....spot on ! ...But I have to ask why oh why ?? Everytime I've seen him play he's been brilliant ... He probably shows too much talent for Tone
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Post by nott1 on Mar 17, 2012 15:35:44 GMT
He was an international when we signed him and now he isn't. Good coaching to improve players is obviously not what we do! Three years and according to TP not good enough. I'd sack the coaches!
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Post by borat on Mar 17, 2012 15:41:57 GMT
Running with the ball towards the opposition goal is a crime against football, so Pulis will never play Diego ever again and will be sold in the summer
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2012 16:26:24 GMT
the break forward from the cage cost us a goal as well don't forget.
Diego left the cage, lost the ball on the edge of the box and they broke upfield and scored, totally against the run of play.
We lose, Diego gets fined 2 weeks wages for going forward with the ball and then gets shipped out to Huddersfield.
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Post by Irish Stokie on Mar 17, 2012 16:38:20 GMT
Arismendi looked good against Valencia but by all accounts he was extremely average in the lower leagues and has rightly been loaned out again.
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 17, 2012 16:47:38 GMT
Arismendi came on 10 minutes ago with Huddersfield 1-0 down and on the back foot. The Gudjonsson brother that we didn't have has just conceded a penalty.
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