Walters, Huth & Whitehead

[davejohnno1]

At least 3 of the 14 players that featured last night had a decent game.

Credit where it is due. I thought these 3 played pretty well given the absolute shit that they were surrounded by amongst their colleagues.

I am so very disappointed at how poorly Shawcross played. Whatever chances he had of appearing for England must surely have disappeared last night.

I thought we would soon be losing him but after last nights horror show (he barely won a header in either box), I think he will be with us for quite some time to come.

Still at least there were some positives from what I saw.

[Fred Astaire]

Wilkinson had a fantastic game as did Fuller. Unfortunately Fuller's fantastic game was limited to sitting on the bench as our manager made baffling negative substitutions elsewhere!

[timmymallett]

I take it you are taking the piss mentioning Walters ?

He runs around, that is all he can do. Brain dead with zero ability. No other Premier team would sign him. FACT !

[joinerssquire]

I thought Huth had a poor game. Turned a few times and left wanting for pace. Whitehead injected some energy into our otherwise pedestrian midfield. Agree with Fred that Wilko had a decent game and probably my man of the match but that isn't saying a lot.

[davejohnno1]

I don't disagree Timmy but you have to give credit where it is due.

Walters caused them problems, ran hard and any threat that we had, though granted it wasn't much of one, came through him.

He caused them more problems than Crouch did and in fairness had a decent game last night. He won most of the aerial battles, unlike Crouch and generally tried to make things happen, unlike Crouch.

The fact that he is shit normally, has little to do with it. You have to call it as you see it and last night, he had a decent game.

Fair is fair afterall!

EDIT - Joiners...I also agree that Huth got turned by their fleet footed forward at times but he made several superb interceptions and but for them, the defeat would have been much heavier. Compare his effort to Ryan's, who was like a lost sheep and desperately disappointing.

[nutterpotter]

Who was announced man of the match at the ground?

[jimmygscfc1234]

Dave, Whitehead didn't do it over 90 minutes though mate, and if he's our salvation suddenly then we're really deep in trouble. Walters was willing as ever but that's all; he's labouring now and is all too predicatable. I thought Shawcross was better than Huth myself, and I agree that Ryan was poor. It's all about opinions and most people think Wilko was our best player. Once again, I don't really know what to make of that. Irrespective of Valencia's undoubted quality, I thought we looked totally second rate and I can't wait for the season to end, assuming we survive. We're a poor side now and something is seriously amiss. I'm laying most of the blame at the manager's door but we have some very ordinary players out there who should be moved on. However, recent history tells us that Pulis doesn't do the unexpected, he's all too predictable. As you can tell, I'm losing my mojo!

[fentonstokie]

Feb 17, 2012 9:35:24 GMT timmymallett said:

I take it you are taking the piss mentioning Walters ?

He runs around, that is all he can do. Brain dead with zero ability. No other Premier team would sign him. FACT !

I was starting to think it was just me who thought this. phew!

[rabbigan]

Walters was woeful really awful.
Where do you sit to see him as having a decent game.
Everything he does is moderate.
He is a big part of why we do not score goals.

[frodekippe]

I mentioned this on a different thread where you commented on how well Huth played so I'll say the same here; I thought Huth had a mare last night. He misread a lot of high balls that allowed their striker to win free headers and also got turned extremely easily a good few times. I actually thought that Shawcross was our strongest defender by far and bailed Huth out on more than one occasion.

[stokebill]

I have to put myself in the Shawcross better than Huth camp too I think. I'm a huge Huth fan but he was done for pace a few times last night, and bailed out by Ryan.

I think our problems came from a static (though admittedly outnumbered) centre midfield which allowed Valencia to run at us from all angles.

[davejohnno1]

Amazing how we all see the game differently.

I have given praise to two players that I would normally slaughter. Walters and Whitehead are shit, but last night their contributions, were amongst the most positive aspects of the evening.

If they were bad, how about Palacios? Rory? Wilson? Etherington? Crouch?

I don't let my opinions of a certain player cloud a judgement as to how they play in a given game. Others do.

[joinerssquire]

Feb 17, 2012 9:45:16 GMT davejohnno1 said:

I don't disagree Timmy but you have to give credit where it is due.

Walters caused them problems, ran hard and any threat that we had, though granted it wasn't much of one, came through him.

He caused them more problems than Crouch did and in fairness had a decent game last night. He won most of the aerial battles, unlike Crouch and generally tried to make things happen, unlike Crouch.

The fact that he is shit normally, has little to do with it. You have to call it as you see it and last night, he had a decent game.

Fair is fair afterall!

EDIT - Joiners...I also agree that Huth got turned by their fleet footed forward at times but he made several superb interceptions and but for them, the defeat would have been much heavier. Compare his effort to Ryan's, who was like a lost sheep and desperately disappointing.

Dave - fair do's mate. It's probably that those occasions when Huth got turned were so obvious that Ryan's deficiencies were less apparent from where I was sitting. Agree completely with the comment about their fleet footed forwards which with Swansea's Dyer, Sinclair and co coming up is a cause for concern.

[numpty40]

Incredible how some see games differently. On two occasions Whitehead was incapable of a very basic 10 yard pass without putting it into touch when not under any pressure at all. Walters runs around a lot and he looks really impressive when he runs around a lot at speed, I just wish he looked good in front of goal.
Overall I actually enjoyed last night. Valencia are the best side I've seen this season and we are still in the tie (just).
I thought last night brought into sharp focus how laboured we are with Crouch starting and that's not having a dig at Crouch. He's battling for hopeful punts and he is not that kind of target man. When Jerome replaced him we started to hit the channels and use his pace and looked far more dangerous.
The Shotton/Wilson substitution was bizzare and provides all the ammo anyone needs to knock Pulis' tactics. Within a minute of the change Valencia broke, the player wide left skinned Shooton and from the cross Wilko was side stepped easily and they should have scored and game over! Plus making that change prevented Fuller coming on for SJW to provide even more skill and pace for the last 15/20mins.
I thought Shawcross was again magnificent and he will become an all time great if he stays at Stoke.
I'm completely lost as to how anyone could describe him as poor unless they're taking the piss and I can't see one of those winky things.

[Deleted]

Funny, I thought shawcross had a blinder, there was a few occasions when Huth had been turned and shawcross had to sort it out, did the same for wilko. I don't know why everyone is bitching! I'm going stop coming on this sight, I was expecting some positive comments, personally I thought we pushed at them for the most part and there were a lot of 'almost' moments. For crying out loud it's Valencia! All everyone wants to do is cry and bitch about not winning against a team who were far more technically gifted than anything we've faced before.
I think people only slag off palacios because he cost us so much. Every time a player was near him he got stuck in, people get blinkered when they see what a player has cost. How many times did he pass the ball to delap who then lost possession immediately, I can think of at least 5 where delaps passing lost us possession, but despite that everyone of our players worked their arse off and were undone in the end by a fantastic goal. If only Walters had buried that chance in the first 25 seconds

[citynickscfc]

Walters was poor, lost the ball many times in attacking situations....are you thinking he was playing right midfield?

Every time Walters went to head it he missed it. Crouch won a lot of high balls only to find Walters in the wrong place at the wrong time. He did not ''run at them'' as you state, he lumbered around aimlessly.

When he ''closed down so well'', Valencia did not panic. So how come Walters ''closes down so well'' and Tuncay, Fuller, Jerome have all been said to 'run around like headless chickens''.

Walters had 0 shots on goal last night. Crouch had 1 very good effort go just over (our best chance/shot of the game), if Walters hadnt ducked out of two heading chances it may have been a different story. Every attacking situation we were in, Walters lost the ball. He had a good 10 minutes at the start as did the whole team, but then he ran out of gas it seemed, and therefore had a poor game overall.

Pennant for me was our only attacking threat. Whitehead did well when he came on but I think that it was a lot more to do with Valencia's second team tireing, sitting back a bit more and letting our toothless striker force have a bit of space.

We had 0 shots on target. I cannot really see where all of this 'credit where its due' is coming from. Piatti made us look shite in central midfield all game, the cage didnt work and needed to be broken at 0-1. It was a relatively poor effort.

[joinerssquire]

Feb 17, 2012 10:02:14 GMT numpty40 said:

Incredible how some see games differently. On two occasions Whitehead was incapable of a very basic 10 yard pass without putting it into touch when not under any pressure at all. Walters runs around a lot and he looks really impressive when he runs around a lot at speed, I just wish he looked good in front of goal.
Overall I actually enjoyed last night. Valencia are the best side I've seen this season and we are still in the tie (just).
I thought last night brought into sharp focus how laboured we are with Crouch starting and that's not having a dig at Crouch. He's battling for hopeful punts and he is not that kind of target man. When Jerome replaced him we started to hit the channels and use his pace and looked far more dangerous.
The Shotton/Wilson substitution was bizzare and provides all the ammo anyone needs to knock Pulis' tactics. Within a minute of the change Valencia broke, the player wide left skinned Shooton and from the cross Wilko was side stepped easily and they should have scored and game over! Plus making that change prevented Fuller coming on for SJW to provide even more skill and pace for the last 15/20mins.
I thought Shawcross was again magnificent and he will become an all time great if he stays at Stoke.
I'm completely lost as to how anyone could describe him as poor unless they're taking the piss and I can't see one of those winky things.

Agree that whiteheads distribution leaves a lot to be desired but he did inject some energy into our midfield which had been bloody awful to that point. I'm a big Palacios fan but last night he was dreadful and combining him with Delap is the worst pairing possible.

[frodekippe]

Feb 17, 2012 9:58:35 GMT davejohnno1 said:

Amazing how we all see the game differently.

I have given praise to two players that I would normally slaughter. Walters and Whitehead are shit, but last night their contributions, were amongst the most positive aspects of the evening.

If they were bad, how about Palacios? Rory? Wilson? Etherington? Crouch?

I don't let my opinions of a certain player cloud a judgement as to how they play in a given game. Others do.

Sadly they too were also piss poor. Walters showed great endeavour and attitude but very little quality and absolutely no chemistry and understanding with Crouch. Crouchy himself was a total passenger and offered nothing. Definitely time for a change up front because it just isn't working.

I thought Shawcross was our most solid defender followed by Wilko, but Huth was poor and Wilson was even worse. Shotton did nothing when he came on apart from completely misjudge one ball and allow their winger to run clean through.

Palacios and Delap were shocking and chased shadows all game. Rory's passing was diabolical again and he only seems capable of passing a ball with either his hands or his head! We looked much more solid when Deano came on because he was actually getting near their midfield.

Matty and Jermaine had little moments of promise but in general were very poor. They gave our full backs no support and their delivery was extremely disappointing at times.

So for me Bego, Shawcross, Wilko, Deano and Jerome all did ok but the rest of the team just didn't turn up which is a shame because on paper it seemed like a decent team selection.

[davejohnno1]

It was a very disappointing effort for sure. You are right there.

We didn't show the best of what we have to offer and for the first time in a good while, that defeat last night actually hurt.

I don't feel frustrated, as I did on Saturday, I just feel gutted. Absolutely gutted.

Hopefully Valencia next week will be a Cardiff moment when we achieve something that none of us expect. I can't see it though!

[Stretfordpotterer]

i wouldn't rush to give too much praise to either centre half last night, thought at times in the 1st half they looked like they'd never met each other. Individually both had ups and downs but as a combo looked unusually disorganised and frail.

Agree that Wilko was our MOTD and thought Pennant plugged away well enough, though his distribution was wanting again.

Ethers is probably just climbing out of the little bald right backs pocket about now, he was the best player on the park for me, sign him up TP, strong fast, aware, calm in possession, looked a cracking player, didn't give ethers a sniff, then they take him off and surprise surprise, we stubbornly refuse to get the ball left to give ethers a run at the sub who looks TBH, a bit of a hoofer.

centre mid woeful, palacios is not a cage midfielder, he only looks decent when we are winning and the opposition are chasing the came, then he seems to come alive bombing into gaps etc.

Walters just looks tired, crouch looks isolated,

Whitehead added a bit of bite when he came on but he's like the rest of our midfield, footballing bread, every meal generally has a bit of bread in it, but you don't want to just eat bread all the fucking time.

[ladyinred]

Another post in support of Shawcross.

I thought he was much better than Huth last night, and really bailed him out a couple of times.

Sitting low down in the Boothen, I thought his first half performance was immense, the talking to Wilko and the reading of the game was great. Best 45 minutes he's put in all season.

2nd half, hard to comment - as it is not that easy to assess from my low down vantage point.

[davejohnno1]

Given the diversity of views about certain players, maybe the fairest assessment of all is that we were woefully inadequate, against far superior opposition, and we are all searching desperately for some crumbs of comfort.

We are a very sorry excuse of a team right now, regardless of who did and didn't play well last night.

[firkthefox]

Feb 17, 2012 9:42:58 GMT joinerssquire said:

I thought Huth had a poor game. Turned a few times and left wanting for pace. Whitehead injected some energy into our otherwise pedestrian midfield. Agree with Fred that Wilko had a decent game and probably my man of the match but that isn't saying a lot.

Agree 100% re Huth, but then I have spent about 10 years thinking him utterly over-rated. and wasn't happy when we signed him

Slow and plodding, but then so was Shawcross last night IMO

[sheikhmomo]

We played quite well and deserved something from the game. Our inability to make decent chances when on top though is getting really worrying now.

An absolutely needless attack on Shawcross in the OP.

[Deleted]

Whitehead put the ball straight out of play twice from good positions. Like the others, he is not the answer to the blatant lack of class in the middle of the park.

[davejohnno1]

MoMo...It wasn't an attack on anyone. I love Ryan and think he has played really well throughout the season, save for the odd shocker.

I don't think he played well last night, others do. Fair enough.

I don't also think that Whitehead is the answer to our midfield woes. He is wank but despite his wankness, he is lightyears ahead of Palacios at the moment. Just what did he contribute?

I was trying to find some positives out of what was a very frustrating evening where yet again we were one-dimensional, struggled to create chances, had a midfield and full-backs that could barely pass the ball and basically if they had wanted to, Valencia could have beat us by 3 or 4.

They were good, don't get me wrong, but Chelsea beat them 3-0 and drew 1-1 away, yet we gave Chelsea a much better game. We have played better teams than Valencia and given them a much better game.

I was trying to find positives to console myself more than anything because being honest, I am absolutely gutted. I am gutted we lost, gutted with our display, gutted that we never see the best player we have, and generally gutted that our team is absolutely shit. Where has it all gone wrong?

We are toss. In the cold light of day, of yesterdays starting 11, only the 2 centre halves, Pennant and Etherington (who has been shit all season by the way) are anything like being good enough. The rest of them are just plodders who are being exposed week after week.

We are going backwards at a rapid rate of knots and it is depressing to observe. On the pitch, we have run out of ideas and on the sidelines, the manager seemingly hasn't a clue what to do about it.

Wilson has been so bad of late and again yesterday, that we discussed the potential of Danny Collins returning to the team for a little spell at one point!

How desperate must we be?

[stokemark]

Four years in and we still havent got a central midfielder who can control and pass the ball consistently - It beggars belief

Why on earth we couldnt have spent the Crouch money on such a player only TP knows - My personal worry / theory ? We peaked in the FA Cup Final and that its been and is going to be downhill from now on.

[robwahlmann]

Feb 17, 2012 9:22:43 GMT davejohnno1 said:

At least 3 of the 14 players that featured last night had a decent game.

Credit where it is due. I thought these 3 played pretty well given the absolute shit that they were surrounded by amongst their colleagues.

I am so very disappointed at how poorly Shawcross played. Whatever chances he had of appearing for England must surely have disappeared last night.

I thought we would soon be losing him but after last nights horror show (he barely won a header in either box), I think he will be with us for quite some time to come.

Still at least there were some positives from what I saw.

I'm usually one of Rob Huth's biggest admirers, but yesterday was one of the worst performances I've seen by Huthy! Looked slow and was out of position a couple of times, but hey everyone can have a bad day at the office. Walters started brightly, but looks tired and not up to his best right now. Whitehead did OK after coming on though.

[davejohnno1]

Maybe several of his last ditch clearances Rob were due to him being pulled all over the place in the first place.

During the first half, I counted 4 crucial, goal saving blocks and interventions, so as a defender, he did well in that sense. He didn't seem to lose out aerially, which Ryan did, hence my opinion.

As I say, maybe his desperate last ditch challenges were a result of him being pulled out of position in the first place.

As I have said elsewhere, I was merely trying to find some positive from another abysmal and depressing performance.

For pissing on my bonfire, and depressing me even more, you are all a bunch of bastards!

[robwahlmann]

Feb 17, 2012 17:07:57 GMT davejohnno1 said:

Maybe several of his last ditch clearances Rob were due to him being pulled all over the place in the first place.

During the first half, I counted 4 crucial, goal saving blocks and interventions, so as a defender, he did well in that sense. He didn't seem to lose out aerially, which Ryan did, hence my opinion.

As I say, maybe his desperate last ditch challenges were a result of him being pulled out of position in the first place.

As I have said elsewhere, I was merely trying to find some positive from another abysmal and depressing performance.

For pissing on my bonfire, and depressing me even more, you are all a bunch of bastards!

;D