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Post by potter786 on Jan 28, 2012 18:26:53 GMT
Is there anybody out there who actually knows the facts behind the fallout? If so enlighten me please, also agree with most people jp is class and he gives all when given the green light.
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Post by Hugh Jorgan on Jan 28, 2012 19:56:20 GMT
on radio stoke they said: "its nice to see the manager go onto the pitch and put his arm around Pennant at the final whistle".
Think all is sorted now.
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Post by jeycov on Jan 28, 2012 21:20:36 GMT
Pennant showed his class today and should be first on the team sheet at the moment. His free kick that was saved was tremendous! As well as passing accurately the control that he displays shows his talents.
We need him, we need to hang on to him and play him in our starting 11. Team formations need to be reestablished for some important games ahead.
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Post by scfcrmagic on Jan 28, 2012 22:15:03 GMT
It's like déjà vu Liam Lawrence ....dog/nurse window incident (allegedly) ... Come on TP ...let's not make it personal, there's no room for it in a team game ...
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 28, 2012 22:25:32 GMT
Pennant was brilliant when he came on, along with Ric and he did more in his short time on the pitch than either Etherington or Walters did on either wing throughout the game.
Clearly there has been a fall-out but for me, Pennants showings in Turkey, at Wolves, v Wigan and in coming on as a sub in other games shows that the problem should be buried.
Pennant has clearly got his head down in training and is looking more like the player we had last season. He should play every week, with Wilko behind him who was also excellent again today.
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Post by buiskatthebrit on Jan 29, 2012 17:04:18 GMT
Where and when did Tone say this?? Hard to believe. He and JP had hug as he came off at Derby. Facts not bollocks .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 17:06:46 GMT
its as if he said this - the quotation was to enlist the response
but - its been as if Pulis would say this for, indeed he has -
'picked anybody before he will start Pennant'
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 17:09:50 GMT
If the reason he's not been playing is purely disciplinary it's curious he started against Wigan?
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Post by buiskatthebrit on Jan 29, 2012 19:13:28 GMT
its as if he said this - the quotation was to enlist the response but - its been as if Pulis would say this for, indeed he has - 'picked anybody before he will start Pennant' That explains it then. .........??
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 29, 2012 19:19:12 GMT
TP must put the club first,not any personal issues he has with certain players,if he has any that is..
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 29, 2012 19:58:39 GMT
If the reason he's not been playing is purely disciplinary it's curious he started against Wigan? But wasnt that because Woodgate was injured therefore meaning Shotton didnt need to act as his shield on the right, which meant Pennant could play right wing. I think TP was pissed off with Pennants comments about tactics, and that has definitely given Shotton and anyone else with a pair of boots the advantage, however, i dont think we should understimate the fact that Woodgate starting has cost Pennant games. With respect to Woodgate, I think the sooner he is out the club the better.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 29, 2012 20:04:49 GMT
He is undobtedly the most gifted footballer at the club presently -of that Ihave no doubt yet, we rarely see him sad really but the word pathetic from our manager -is more appropriate I assume you have the reason behind Pennant being dropped, as calling TP pathetic for dropping Pennant without knowing the reasons behind it is pretty fucking stupid. It lags way behind playing a right back on the wing to attempt to cover playing a centre back at right back for utter twattery though, doesn't it? Especially when you do it in home games. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 20:17:07 GMT
If the reason he's not been playing is purely disciplinary it's curious he started against Wigan? But wasnt that because Woodgate was injured therefore meaning Shotton didnt need to act as his shield on the right, which meant Pennant could play right wing. I think TP was pissed off with Pennants comments about tactics, and that has definitely given Shotton and anyone else with a pair of boots the advantage, however, i dont think we should understimate the fact that Woodgate starting has cost Pennant games. With respect to Woodgate, I think the sooner he is out the club the better. If that's the case then it would suggest it was tactical rather than anything to do with disciplinary matters though?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 29, 2012 21:44:46 GMT
But wasnt that because Woodgate was injured therefore meaning Shotton didnt need to act as his shield on the right, which meant Pennant could play right wing. I think TP was pissed off with Pennants comments about tactics, and that has definitely given Shotton and anyone else with a pair of boots the advantage, however, i dont think we should understimate the fact that Woodgate starting has cost Pennant games. With respect to Woodgate, I think the sooner he is out the club the better. If that's the case then it would suggest it was tactical rather than anything to do with disciplinary matters though? Duno Rob make your own mind up. Is playing a clearly hopeless Woodgate and a right back at right mid "tactical" or just a way of keeping Pennant out the team? I know what I think. There is absolutely no justification for Woodgate starting at right back at home. Pulis surely isnt stupid enough to think it is actually more beneficial to play Woodgate and drop Pennant. Hes not happy with Pennant for his comment regarding tactics. The arm around him on Saturday suggests Pulis has finally forgiven him. The next week will tell.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 21:49:09 GMT
If that's the case then it would suggest it was tactical rather than anything to do with disciplinary matters though? Duno Rob make your own mind up. Is playing a clearly hopeless Woodgate and a right back at right mid "tactical" or just a way of keeping Pennant out the team? I know what I think. There is absolutely no justification for Woodgate starting at right back at home. Pulis surely isnt stupid enough to think it is actually more beneficial to play Woodgate and drop Pennant. Hes not happy with Pennant for his comment regarding tactics. The arm around him on Saturday suggests Pulis has finally forgiven him. The next week will tell. I certainly think it is feasible that he'd think (despite evidence to the contrary) that accommodating Woodgate is more important. If it was purely disciplinary, why is he on the bench and coming on during games, and why did he start against Wigan?
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Post by bunnyscfc on Jan 29, 2012 21:49:13 GMT
I assume you have the reason behind Pennant being dropped, as calling TP pathetic for dropping Pennant without knowing the reasons behind it is pretty fucking stupid. It lags way behind playing a right back on the wing to attempt to cover playing a centre back at right back for utter twattery though, doesn't it? Especially when you do it in home games. ;D Yorker, stumps aots
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Post by borat on Jan 29, 2012 21:51:14 GMT
A guy I work with reckons the lads were told not to go out on the match before Everton away (I think) but Pennant went Manchester with his missus and got smashed. He turned up the next day still pissed and Pulis left him out the squad and fined him 2 weeks wages for his behaviour. The guy reckons it's 100% true and to be fair I can believe it (or something similar anyway).
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 29, 2012 21:59:45 GMT
Duno Rob make your own mind up. Is playing a clearly hopeless Woodgate and a right back at right mid "tactical" or just a way of keeping Pennant out the team? I know what I think. There is absolutely no justification for Woodgate starting at right back at home. Pulis surely isnt stupid enough to think it is actually more beneficial to play Woodgate and drop Pennant. Hes not happy with Pennant for his comment regarding tactics. The arm around him on Saturday suggests Pulis has finally forgiven him. The next week will tell. I certainly think it is feasible that he'd think (despite evidence to the contrary) that accommodating Woodgate is more important. If it was purely disciplinary, why is he on the bench and coming on during games, and why did he start against Wigan? But Wigan was only because Woodgate was injured wasnt it? If he genuinly thinks accomodating Woodgate is important then there is something wrong with the guy. I cant believe that TP would have accepted Pennants comments re tactics. We know TP doesnt like critisism, and we certainly know he doesnt like players questioning him. Just look what happened to Tuncay, Kitson and Beattie.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 22:06:33 GMT
I certainly think it is feasible that he'd think (despite evidence to the contrary) that accommodating Woodgate is more important. If it was purely disciplinary, why is he on the bench and coming on during games, and why did he start against Wigan? But Wigan was only because Woodgate was injured wasnt it? If he genuinly thinks accomodating Woodgate is important then there is something wrong with the guy. I cant believe that TP would have accepted Pennants comments re tactics. We know TP doesnt like critisism, and we certainly know he doesnt like players questioning him. Just look what happened to Tuncay, Kitson and Beattie. I don't recall Tuncay criticising TP and Beattie had gone off the boil long before the incident. Kitson stuck his fingers up at the manager and you wouldn't get away with that in any job. Woodgate was injured against Wigan - which as I said, still points to it being a tactical decision rather than a disciplinary one does it not? He could just play another right back and still leave Pennant out couldn't he if that was the case? And he's still featuring in games, which he surely wouldn't be if the fall out was the sole reason for his absence?
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 29, 2012 22:13:15 GMT
Lets hope its not as bizarre as the reasons and application of dropping Huth.
Huth's Mrs brought a place in London and Huth was commuting up for training on a regular basis. TP put his foot down and said no way.
Thats fine but our man of principles then decided that meant Huth was dropped from centre half but it was acceptable to put him in at full back when it suited.
Not exactly the greatest logic was it?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 29, 2012 22:23:18 GMT
But Wigan was only because Woodgate was injured wasnt it? If he genuinly thinks accomodating Woodgate is important then there is something wrong with the guy. I cant believe that TP would have accepted Pennants comments re tactics. We know TP doesnt like critisism, and we certainly know he doesnt like players questioning him. Just look what happened to Tuncay, Kitson and Beattie. I don't recall Tuncay criticising TP and Beattie had gone off the boil long before the incident. Kitson stuck his fingers up at the manager and you wouldn't get away with that in any job. Woodgate was injured against Wigan - which as I said, still points to it being a tactical decision rather than a disciplinary one does it not? He could just play another right back and still leave Pennant out couldn't he if that was the case? And he's still featuring in games, which he surely wouldn't be if the fall out was the sole reason for his absence? You say hes featuring in games. But hes not really is he? He came on as a sub in an fa cup 4th round tie. I wouldnt read too much into that. Also where was he at Liverpool? (We all know TP loves to play players at their old clubs). Yet he started a clearly out form Etherington. Where was he at home to West Brom? He only featured then because the manager realised we were absolutely crying out for some creativity. I cant recall him even coming off the bench at Man City, or at home to Villa. Did he even play against Gillingham? I cant help but feel you are hiding cracks by suggesting TP doesnt care if players or media critisise him. Surely Nige was a good example of that (and he barely critisised him). We also know TP has his favourites. You seem to dismiss Tuncay, Kitson and Beattie pretty swiftly. Beattie was starting week in week out despite being in horrendous form. I remember because it was pissing me off because I felt Tunny should have been out there. Surely you remember the 1-0 victory at home to Portsmouth when one didnt know whether to laugh or to cry at our uninspiring victory. I'd also say Gudjohnsen had quite a lot to say for himself, which is a key reason why TP moved him on. We will never know why Pennant has been left out for so many weeks whilst calamity Woodgate gets selected. The main thing is that TP starts selecting him. Also v Wigan wasnt WIlko injured leaving no other right back apart from Shotton? *edit Wilko started against Wigan. Maybe Woodgate needed a rest physically ? Who knows. Whether Pennants comments are the "sole" reason, as i say we will never know. But i cant think of any other logical explanation for our most creative player starting 1 in 11 games (or something stupid)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 22:29:34 GMT
I don't recall Tuncay criticising TP and Beattie had gone off the boil long before the incident. Kitson stuck his fingers up at the manager and you wouldn't get away with that in any job. Woodgate was injured against Wigan - which as I said, still points to it being a tactical decision rather than a disciplinary one does it not? He could just play another right back and still leave Pennant out couldn't he if that was the case? And he's still featuring in games, which he surely wouldn't be if the fall out was the sole reason for his absence? You say hes featuring in games. But hes not really is he? He came on as a sub in an fa cup 4th round tie. I wouldnt read too much into that. Also where was he at Liverpool? (We all know TP loves to play players at their old clubs). Yet he started a clearly out form Etherington. Where was he at home to West Brom? He only featured then because the manager realised we were absolutely crying out for some creativity. I cant recall him even coming off the bench at Man City, or at home to Villa. Did he even play against Gillingham? I cant help but feel you are hiding cracks by suggesting TP doesnt care if players or media critisise him. Surely Nige was a good example of that (and he barely critisised him). We also know TP has his favourites. You seem to dismiss Tuncay, Kitson and Beattie pretty swiftly. Beattie was starting week in week out despite being in horrendous form. I remember because it was pissing me off because I felt Tunny should have been out there. Surely you remember the 1-0 victory at home to Portsmouth when one didnt know whether to laugh or to cry at our uninspiring victory. I'd also say Gudjohnsen had quite a lot to say for himself, which is a key reason why TP moved him on. We will never know why Pennant has been left out for so many weeks whilst calamity Woodgate gets selected. The main thing is that TP starts selecting him. Also v Wigan wasnt WIlko injured leaving no other right back apart from Shotton? Whether Pennants comments are the "sole" reason, as i say we will never know. But i cant think of any other logical explanation for our most creative player starting 1 in 11 games (or something stupid) I think you're starting to drift away from the point Nick. Obviously TP doesn't like being criticised but equally you could argue that any manager worth his salt isn't going to take being publicly criticised by one of his players. He has to show who's boss. That said, if that was why JP's out, why is he even on the bench? If the fall out was the reason, wouldn't he be persona non grata, training with the kids, like Kitson was made to do? He is 'featuring' in games - coming on as a sub is featuring (not as much as either of us would like, admittedly) - if there had been big issues you'd think he wouldn't be at all. Wilko started the Wigan game. He could have played Rory, Deano or Walters wide right but opted to start Pennant. If discipline was the only factor, surely he wouldn't have done?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 29, 2012 22:41:56 GMT
You say hes featuring in games. But hes not really is he? He came on as a sub in an fa cup 4th round tie. I wouldnt read too much into that. Also where was he at Liverpool? (We all know TP loves to play players at their old clubs). Yet he started a clearly out form Etherington. Where was he at home to West Brom? He only featured then because the manager realised we were absolutely crying out for some creativity. I cant recall him even coming off the bench at Man City, or at home to Villa. Did he even play against Gillingham? I cant help but feel you are hiding cracks by suggesting TP doesnt care if players or media critisise him. Surely Nige was a good example of that (and he barely critisised him). We also know TP has his favourites. You seem to dismiss Tuncay, Kitson and Beattie pretty swiftly. Beattie was starting week in week out despite being in horrendous form. I remember because it was pissing me off because I felt Tunny should have been out there. Surely you remember the 1-0 victory at home to Portsmouth when one didnt know whether to laugh or to cry at our uninspiring victory. I'd also say Gudjohnsen had quite a lot to say for himself, which is a key reason why TP moved him on. We will never know why Pennant has been left out for so many weeks whilst calamity Woodgate gets selected. The main thing is that TP starts selecting him. Also v Wigan wasnt WIlko injured leaving no other right back apart from Shotton? Whether Pennants comments are the "sole" reason, as i say we will never know. But i cant think of any other logical explanation for our most creative player starting 1 in 11 games (or something stupid) I think you're starting to drift away from the point Nick. Obviously TP doesn't like being criticised but equally you could argue that any manager worth his salt isn't going to take being publicly criticised by one of his players. He has to show who's boss. That said, if that was why JP's out, why is he even on the bench? If the fall out was the reason, wouldn't he be persona non grata, training with the kids, like Kitson was made to do? He is 'featuring' in games - coming on as a sub is featuring (not as much as either of us would like, admittedly) - if there had been big issues you'd think he wouldn't be at all. Wilko started the Wigan game. He could have played Rory, Deano or Walters wide right but opted to start Pennant. If discipline was the only factor, surely he wouldn't have done? . I take your points and he could have started Rory or Walters, but don't you find the timing of pennants comments to the sentinel a little too coincidental with him being dropped for 10 games?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 22:45:02 GMT
I think you're starting to drift away from the point Nick. Obviously TP doesn't like being criticised but equally you could argue that any manager worth his salt isn't going to take being publicly criticised by one of his players. He has to show who's boss. That said, if that was why JP's out, why is he even on the bench? If the fall out was the reason, wouldn't he be persona non grata, training with the kids, like Kitson was made to do? He is 'featuring' in games - coming on as a sub is featuring (not as much as either of us would like, admittedly) - if there had been big issues you'd think he wouldn't be at all. Wilko started the Wigan game. He could have played Rory, Deano or Walters wide right but opted to start Pennant. If discipline was the only factor, surely he wouldn't have done? . I take your points and he could have started Rory or Walters, but don't you find the timing of pennants comments to the sentinel a little too coincidental with him being dropped for 10 games? I can believe the curfew story as a factor in him being initially dropped. I thought Pennant's comments to the Sentinel were incredibly mild to be honest. I think that after we got that result at Everton and the results after, TP saw a way of keeping Woodgate involved while still getting results, overlooking the fact that we weren't playing especially well. He tends to go into his shell this time of year. He did the same thing last season with inexplicably dropping Fuller, selling Tuncay and getting Carew in. He dropped Pennant then as well, to accommodate Wilson in the middle.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 10:08:39 GMT
yep its pretty stupid not to play our best footballer too my opinion - Im in Tony Pulis's corner but will give him stick when plainly he;s getting it wrong and- like the Woodgate debacle - not starting Pennant is plain dumb to be fair, i'm a big fan of TP, always have been but it is Tone himself that always comes up with this "No one man is bigger than the club" and weeds out the egos and the dressing room upsetters to ensure a good team spirit and good on him for doing so. However, i really think that TP needs to realise that on this occasion HE is the one man that is not bigger than the club; the simple fact is that even if we don't need JP every game (which i personally think we do), we certainly need him now with so many players looking tired and out of form. TP needs to swallow his pride and realise that HE and HIS principles are not bigger than the club and what we care about is getting resultswhich we ALWAYS have a far better chance of getting with Jermaine playing.
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Post by newportstokieone on Jan 30, 2012 12:18:44 GMT
Really expected him to start Saturday - we CLEARLY miss his quality so why is he not playing ??
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Post by ParaPsych on Jan 30, 2012 12:26:55 GMT
I didn't go on Saturday, and I'm too lazy to read this thread, but I've been told that Pulis and Pennant "seemed" on very good terms post-match.
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Post by Stokie Mcpot on Jan 30, 2012 12:27:36 GMT
Thank goodness Sir Stan wasn't in the squad when Pulis was in charge Why? He was exactly the type of player the manager loves: dedicated hard-working sensible professional great character etc., etc.,... Tony would have loved him! No no no no no sir *'Aaaaaarrdddd working never forget that ;D
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 30, 2012 12:40:05 GMT
yep its pretty stupid not to play our best footballer too my opinion - Im in Tony Pulis's corner but will give him stick when plainly he;s getting it wrong and- like the Woodgate debacle - not starting Pennant is plain dumb to be fair, i'm a big fan of TP, always have been but it is Tone himself that always comes up with this "No one man is bigger than the club" and weeds out the egos and the dressing room upsetters to ensure a good team spirit and good on him for doing so. However, i really think that TP needs to realise that on this occasion HE is the one man that is not bigger than the club; the simple fact is that even if we don't need JP every game (which i personally think we do), we certainly need him now with so many players looking tired and out of form. TP needs to swallow his pride and realise that HE and HIS principles are not bigger than the club and what we care about is getting resultswhich we ALWAYS have a far better chance of getting with Jermaine playing. Not sure I agree with you mate. I think the togetherness of the club is the main reason for our success. If Pennant or any other player does anything to jeopardise that then they have to go. I know nothing about what has or hasn't happened so I may be wrong and it could just be Pulis is just being a dick. In which case I would have to say it should be Pulis who goes because, as I said, nothing can be allowed to jeopardise our great spirit. My instinct tells me Pennant is at fault which would be a shame because he can give us so much on his day. Hopefully it's been sorted and we can move on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 13:16:50 GMT
to be fair, i'm a big fan of TP, always have been but it is Tone himself that always comes up with this "No one man is bigger than the club" and weeds out the egos and the dressing room upsetters to ensure a good team spirit and good on him for doing so. However, i really think that TP needs to realise that on this occasion HE is the one man that is not bigger than the club; the simple fact is that even if we don't need JP every game (which i personally think we do), we certainly need him now with so many players looking tired and out of form. TP needs to swallow his pride and realise that HE and HIS principles are not bigger than the club and what we care about is getting resultswhich we ALWAYS have a far better chance of getting with Jermaine playing. Not sure I agree with you mate. I think the togetherness of the club is the main reason for our success. If Pennant or any other player does anything to jeopardise that then they have to go. I know nothing about what has or hasn't happened so I may be wrong and it could just be Pulis is just being a dick. In which case I would have to say it should be Pulis who goes because, as I said, nothing can be allowed to jeopardise our great spirit. My instinct tells me Pennant is at fault which would be a shame because he can give us so much on his day. Hopefully it's been sorted and we can move on. im not saying anyone should go, what i'm saying is that if it is a disciplinary problem (which none of us know) then TP has got to start coming up with other solutions to solving these problems other than refusing to play them regardless.plenty of other teams manage to handle players with disciplinary problems in ways that don't put the success of the team in jeopardy,it's not as if TP is the only manager to face this.i haven't seen anything from the other players in the way they treat JP on the pitch to suggest they have any problem with him, so if it's a TP thing then he needs to handle it better and still ensure our best players are able to contribute.the difference in how we play when JP is playing and when he isn't is vast!
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