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Post by spitthedog on Jan 17, 2012 15:49:19 GMT
I would say the reason we get away with it (and I think most teams would not) is because we have a fantastic defence. 2 of the best centre backs in the premiership and a world class goalkeeper. They have to deal with an awful lot of pressure because of our inability to hold the ball If we did hold the ball better would be even higher than 8th, there is no doubt. It's not like giving the ball away is part of our strategy to win games, as some seem to suggest.
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Post by mcf on Jan 17, 2012 15:49:50 GMT
No Rob but that has nothing to do with it.
Merely holding on to the ball does fuck all. A team could keep it for 90% between the back four and they wouldn't score.
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Post by multiplescoregasms on Jan 17, 2012 15:53:33 GMT
Meh, it works for us.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 16:02:57 GMT
No Rob but that has nothing to do with it. Merely holding on to the ball does fuck all. A team could keep it for 90% between the back four and they wouldn't score. See you what you mean now. I thought Millsy just meant you've got more chance of scoring if you've got the ball.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 16:14:20 GMT
so what if we are 20th - we are 8th in the league - where would we be if we were better at passing though?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 16:17:33 GMT
No Rob but that has nothing to do with it. Merely holding on to the ball does fuck all. A team could keep it for 90% between the back four and they wouldn't score. See you what you mean now. I thought Millsy just meant you've got more chance of scoring if you've got the ball. yeah true, i mean you look at our possession stats which are almost always below 40% and i still wonder why we usually only get a goal a match mostly ???
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 16:33:15 GMT
so what if we are 20th - we are 8th in the league - where would we be if we were better at passing though? Yeah, self-improvement and ambition are for fairies.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 17, 2012 16:34:45 GMT
so what if we are 20th - we are 8th in the league - where would we be if we were better at passing though? In League 2. It's a well known fact.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 17, 2012 16:37:18 GMT
No Rob but that has nothing to do with it. Merely holding on to the ball does fuck all. A team could keep it for 90% between the back four and they wouldn't score. I look forward to your post crucifying TP for talking bollocks about the need for his team to keep the ball better.
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Post by mcf on Jan 17, 2012 16:40:38 GMT
depends in which area of the pitch he was talking about
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Jan 17, 2012 18:02:32 GMT
How does this pass completion stat fit into the overall picture of how long or short a team's passes are?
For example, If a team's ethos is to pass the ball through midfield, play the ball around with short 10 yard passes then surely they are going to have a higher pass completion rate than a team like us, for example, who are quite happy to bypass the midfield and play 40-70 yard balls forward from back to front?
It's only human nature that an 12-18" wide target is bigger from 10 yards away than it is from 70 yards away.
It has absolutely fuck all bearing on how good a team is.
The teams that have poor pass completion rates and are near the bottom are those that try to play football and can't. Those that have low pass completion rates and are higher up in the table are those that play more direct and are far more economical with their possession - us.
What an absolutely wank article that is. Tell us something we don't know.
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Post by march4 on Jan 17, 2012 18:06:07 GMT
Weren't Burnley, Blackpool, Hull and Moanbry's Brazil team all good at passing??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 18:41:13 GMT
Isn't the point though that we should be looking to combine what we have now and add another string to our bow by hanging onto the ball better when required?
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Post by march4 on Jan 17, 2012 18:46:49 GMT
Isn't the point though that we should be looking to combine what we have now and add another string to our bow by hanging onto the ball better when required? Quite, when circumstances dictate.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 18:51:18 GMT
Isn't the point though that we should be looking to combine what we have now and add another string to our bow by hanging onto the ball better when required? Quite, when circumstances dictate. Such as when we've got a lead to protect or to make use of the midfield more to take the pressure off thr wingers and create more chances. Variety is the spice of life.
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Post by march4 on Jan 17, 2012 18:54:21 GMT
Quite, when circumstances dictate. Such as when we've got a lead to protect or to make use of the midfield more to take the pressure off thr wingers and create more chances. Variety is the spice of life. Spot on, Rob. Kiev away is a prime example. And Anfield on Saturday is a second.
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Post by swampmongrel on Jan 17, 2012 19:02:26 GMT
I think there ought to be some middle ground. Great passing stats are all very well but if they don't convert into goals and points it's a fairly pointless pursuit. That said, our passing is generally poor and it would certainly improve our options if we were able to close teams out with more possession. As others have said this is something that TP is aware of. Watching matches this season you can hear Pulis shouting 'keep it'. This was especially noticable in the Europa games against 'lesser' opposition.
It's a bit strange that our passing is so poor when you think that the majority of our squad have been performers (or graduated at) sides that are much better at keep ball than us. I think the problem (if it is a real problem) is mainly due to the system. Pulis's (excellent) defences are made up of two banks of four who stay behind the ball. When we do win it back there are less options to play the simple pass: the CMs are stuck in 'the cage' and the FBs rarely offer an easy outward ball.
The question is: how much do we want us to surrender our positional discipline in order to keep hold of the ball more?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 19:02:35 GMT
At Blackburn we did it brilliantly I thought.
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Post by march4 on Jan 17, 2012 19:07:00 GMT
At Blackburn we did it brilliantly I thought. We seemed much calmer at Blackburn. It is a promising sign though.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 17, 2012 22:10:32 GMT
so many of these stats are pointless.
Reminds me of a pal of mine who every Friday night chatted up more girls than everyone else combined.
His conversion rate was utter pish though. ;D
Sticking the ball in the back of the net more times than your opponent is the only stat that matters.
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Post by sportsman on Jan 17, 2012 22:24:02 GMT
It's the 'in thing' now for a manager to say 'play the right way'. It somehow takes the pressure of a manager and gives him more time in the job and with the fans.
For a manager to say 'i'll take the blame if my player loses the ball on the edge of his own box and the opposition score' is just his way of saying 'stick with me and give me time that i wouldn't normally be allowed if we hoof it and i'll have you watching a team like Barcelona one day'.
And their fans are daft enough to give him that time.
Don't know about you but whenever i watch Barcelona, Swansea, Arsenal, i just want to press FF on my sky remote until the ball is near the box. Like watching paint dry at times. Fast attacking football, like what United or Spurs play yes, but not Arsenal, Swansea or Man city who piss about for 5 minutes passing between their defenders to get their 'passing stats' up.
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chiefie
Academy Starlet
he's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy
Posts: 236
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Post by chiefie on Jan 17, 2012 23:04:10 GMT
we were poor against liverpool with whelan in particular
felt for palacious as no-one offering anything other than a backward pass
love TP but its one to work on
would expect to lose to man citeh away but all down to pass errors
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Post by mcf on Jan 18, 2012 7:43:44 GMT
It's always about chances. Creating and taking them...and not giving the opposition any. Keeping the ball can be dangerous if you give it away in the wrong areas....yet you have to have it some of the time in the right areas to score...but you can do that with lumps up the field. may be it is rocket science
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 8:31:11 GMT
we were poor against liverpool with whelan in particular felt for palacious as no-one offering anything other than a backward pass love TP but its one to work on would expect to lose to man citeh away but all down to pass errors Palacios tut tut has been with us a while now!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 8:58:07 GMT
It's always about chances. Creating and taking them...and not giving the opposition any. Keeping the ball can be dangerous if you give it away in the wrong areas....yet you have to have it some of the time in the right areas to score...but you can do that with lumps up the field. may be it is rocket science Surely if you're keeping it then you're not giving it away?
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Post by mcf on Jan 18, 2012 9:15:22 GMT
i go along with sayings like don't fuck about with it at the back like having 90% of ball...lose at the back twice and be 2-0 down. or don't keep it by simply just twatting it out when you are under pressure...they don't score from 80 yards out. i'm sure you know where i'm coming from
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Post by larstoke on Jan 18, 2012 9:33:53 GMT
whelans passing against liverpool was horrid. I'd love to see the stats for that one. I think he hit 20% of his attempted passes. we got a good result however. and we're still 8th in the premier league! but still.. whelans passing was the worst Ive seen in a long time.
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Post by mcf on Jan 18, 2012 11:24:22 GMT
early on it was
i thought Whelan had a good second half though and kept the shape really well
Infact, Delap and Pally had good games as well.
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Post by bilbo62 on Jan 18, 2012 15:28:15 GMT
Yes bet it is.....Bet it's all down to Delap cus his passing is crap .....bet him alone is 69%
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 15:38:39 GMT
whelans passing against liverpool was horrid. I'd love to see the stats for that one. I think he hit 20% of his attempted passes. we got a good result however. and we're still 8th in the premier league! but still.. whelans passing was the worst Ive seen in a long time. Whelan completed more passes than any other Stoke player. 31 out of 45. Not great, but the most consistently accurate we had. Palacios only attempted 14 passes but did a very decent stopping job I thought.
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