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Post by redstriper on Dec 6, 2011 9:59:27 GMT
That'll be far more than anyone who actually bothers to work gets this year. What sort of a message does that send out ? I'd expect this kind of crap from labour, but apparently the lib dems have forced the tories to stick with this for the April 2012 rise.  |
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Post by Gods on Dec 6, 2011 10:29:01 GMT
I work in the private sector and we haven't had any rate increases since 2008 or 4 years in February and that is not untypical.
I have completely lost faith in any administration of whatever colour getting to grips with Public Sector pay, benefits and most particularly pensions.
My suspicion is that there are simply too many noses in the trough to be able to properly address these issues for the long term and yet still remain in power.
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Post by redstriper on Dec 6, 2011 10:39:15 GMT
True, but the tories were elected on a promise to reform the benefits system and break the "something for nothing" culture.
Not much happening so far... working people are being penalised by the reduction in working tax credits due to the poor state of the economy, yet those who do fuck all are not. This was a chance to make a statement of intent.
I put comments on here when cameron was elected tory leader saying david davies should have got the job - so far I haven't seen anyhting to change my view.
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Post by bettysgravy on Dec 6, 2011 10:47:17 GMT
The cynic in me says, its a small price to pay to keep them sweet and split public opinion while they continue to hammer the middle earners for the bigger money.
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Post by elsidibe on Dec 6, 2011 10:48:17 GMT
For people on Disability Living Allowance, state pension etc., a benefit rise makes perfect sense with the cost of living spiralling. How else can they be expected to stay warm, pay for travel costs, food and so on?
Even for those on Jobseekers' and other inferred "bad benefits", rising living costs are a very real concern and, when your only income is £67.50 a week, it's nigh-on impossible to afford just the basics.
I think most people on that sort of money would love nothing more than a job that paid a minimum of four times their benefits amount. The problem is, there aren't many jobs to speak of.
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Post by StokieMatt on Dec 6, 2011 12:10:18 GMT
Bet Craig is jumping up and down*
*if he could due to shortness of breath
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 17:15:26 GMT
True, but the tories were elected on a promise to reform the benefits system and break the "something for nothing" culture. Not much happening so far... working people are being penalised by the reduction in working tax credits due to the poor state of the economy, yet those who do fuck all are not. This was a chance to make a statement of intent. I put comments on here when cameron was elected tory leader saying david davies should have got the job - so far I haven't seen anyhting to change my view. David Davies did get the job, it was only the AV system which then elected Cameron! |
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Post by Arthurdollar on Dec 6, 2011 17:26:15 GMT
I was hoping for at least 10% benefit increase, fuck me what are Goverment doing with all your taxes. Fags and beer are costing me a fucking fortune. I should be able to show them my benefits book and maybe they could excempt me and other doleys from tax of me booze and baccy. Dunna get me started on beer and paying for taxi's.
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Post by worstgolfer on Dec 6, 2011 17:28:47 GMT
For people on Disability Living Allowance, state pension etc., a benefit rise makes perfect sense with the cost of living spiralling. How else can they be expected to stay warm, pay for travel costs, food and so on? Even for those on Jobseekers' and other inferred "bad benefits", rising living costs are a very real concern and, when your only income is £67.50 a week, it's nigh-on impossible to afford just the basics. I think most people on that sort of money would love nothing more than a job that paid a minimum of four times their benefits amount. The problem is, there aren't many jobs to speak of. i feel for genuine claiments but they are few and far between, when i came out of hospital i struggled to get anything i had to go on jobseekers £65 a week bareley paid my mortgage i had to use my savings which i had spent 20 years building up just to exist. i then took work on when i shouldnt really have been working due to my health. makes me sick to the back teeth to see so many abusing the system. re bad back,stree, bullshit one of the latest scams is for a married couple with kids who have never worked a day in their life is to become their partners carer citing obesity????? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 18:10:29 GMT
You'd think the Tories would have cracked down on this after 18 months in power.
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 6, 2011 18:39:08 GMT
i feel for genuine claiments but they are few and far between, when i came out of hospital i struggled to get anything i had to go on jobseekers £65 a week bareley paid my mortgage i had to use my savings which i had spent 20 years building up just to exist. i then took work on when i shouldnt really have been working due to my health. makes me sick to the back teeth to see so many abusing the system. re bad back,stree, bullshit one of the latest scams is for a married couple with kids who have never worked a day in their life is to become their partners carer citing obesity????? I know a family who do exactly that. The council kindly provided a nice new 4 bed house and even chipped in to convert a downstairs room into a wetroom as the woman is too fat to get up the stairs. A couple of my own friends are the same - neither have worked in 6 years due to disabilities (dodgy knee and a bad back) yet by some miracle they were prancing about without a care in the world when I was at their wedding. They also somehow make it down to the pub every Friday night. Doctors sign a sick note for any old thing these days. |
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Post by Tubes on Dec 6, 2011 19:06:11 GMT
£65 is absolutely nothing to live on, and anyone who's tried it wouldn't be so quick to judge.
The welfare state is there as a safety net to catch and protect the worst off in our country, those who are most in need of help and protection in this recession. It's amazing that there are people who would begrudge them even that. That there are people who cheat the system isn't necessarily an indication that the idea itself is wrong.
Given any system, there are always people who will abuse it (see MP's expenses, the tax system etc) and obviously this is something that we should always be looking to tighten up on. But it's not such a huge percentage abusing the system as the sensationalist headlines in the Daily Mail would have you believe.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 6, 2011 19:17:04 GMT
£65 is absolutely nothing to live on, and anyone who's tried it wouldn't be so quick to judge. The welfare state is there as a safety net to catch and protect the worst off in our country, those who are most in need of help and protection in this recession. It's amazing that there are people who would begrudge them even that. That there are people who cheat the system isn't necessarily an indication that the idea itself is wrong. Given any system, there are always people who will abuse it (see MP's expenses, the tax system etc) and obviously this is something that we should always be looking to tighten up on. But it's not such a huge percentage abusing the system as the sensationalist headlines in the Daily Mail would have you believe. i actually agree with most of that |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 19:26:20 GMT
About fucking time  |
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Post by salopstick on Dec 6, 2011 19:28:13 GMT
im still not happy about any % abusing the system, likewise any other tax, expenses abuse
i agreed with the pensions review, public sector pay freeze but believe the 1% subsequent rises are taking the piss
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Post by mayf on Dec 6, 2011 19:42:54 GMT
£65 is absolutely nothing to live on, and anyone who's tried it wouldn't be so quick to judge. The welfare state is there as a safety net to catch and protect the worst off in our country, those who are most in need of help and protection in this recession. It's amazing that there are people who would begrudge them even that. That there are people who cheat the system isn't necessarily an indication that the idea itself is wrong. Given any system, there are always people who will abuse it (see MP's expenses, the tax system etc) and obviously this is something that we should always be looking to tighten up on. But it's not such a huge percentage abusing the system as the sensationalist headlines in the Daily Mail would have you believe. what I have difficulty with is the unemployed but looking for work get £65 quid or so which you rightly say is not enough to live on,yet those on incapacity get more yet they aren't generally looking for work....and a pensioner gets just over a 100 quid. Surely they all need roughly the same to live on ? Then you have the cost of living in different parts of the country, the cost of living is far greater say in London than it is in Stoke. I think the benefits system is in need of a major overhaul but I doubt any government will have the courage to do it,it's a vote loser really |
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 6, 2011 22:13:32 GMT
£65 is absolutely nothing to live on, and anyone who's tried it wouldn't be so quick to judge. The welfare state is there as a safety net to catch and protect the worst off in our country, those who are most in need of help and protection in this recession. It's amazing that there are people who would begrudge them even that. That there are people who cheat the system isn't necessarily an indication that the idea itself is wrong. Given any system, there are always people who will abuse it (see MP's expenses, the tax system etc) and obviously this is something that we should always be looking to tighten up on. But it's not such a huge percentage abusing the system as the sensationalist headlines in the Daily Mail would have you believe. That's exactly what the welfare state should be for, a safety net to help those out who have fallen on bad times or those who are genuinely unable to help themselves. I don't think anyone reasonable would begrudge that and I'd argue they don't get enough support to help them get back on their feet. It shouldn't however be used as way of life. People get angry when they are working their arses off with long days, barely making ends meet, yet some bloke down the road does fuck all yet still somehow has money for Sky TV and booze. There are obviously plenty of other areas which needs looking at too - particular tax evasion. And I'm not just talking about the rich either, there is an enormous 'cash in hand' economy on the go which people turn a blind eye to. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 7, 2011 0:20:03 GMT
£65 is absolutely nothing to live on, and anyone who's tried it wouldn't be so quick to judge. The welfare state is there as a safety net to catch and protect the worst off in our country, those who are most in need of help and protection in this recession. It's amazing that there are people who would begrudge them even that. That there are people who cheat the system isn't necessarily an indication that the idea itself is wrong. Given any system, there are always people who will abuse it (see MP's expenses, the tax system etc) and obviously this is something that we should always be looking to tighten up on. But it's not such a huge percentage abusing the system as the sensationalist headlines in the Daily Mail would have you believe. i actually agree with most of that +1  |
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Post by salopstick on Dec 7, 2011 8:34:58 GMT
And some of the same people moaning about vodaphone and the bankers will be some of the same on a benefits lifestyle, and / or working/paying cash in hand
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Post by Northy on Dec 7, 2011 9:03:33 GMT
i feel for genuine claiments but they are few and far between, when i came out of hospital i struggled to get anything i had to go on jobseekers £65 a week bareley paid my mortgage i had to use my savings which i had spent 20 years building up just to exist. i then took work on when i shouldnt really have been working due to my health. makes me sick to the back teeth to see so many abusing the system. re bad back,stree, bullshit one of the latest scams is for a married couple with kids who have never worked a day in their life is to become their partners carer citing obesity????? I know a family who do exactly that. The council kindly provided a nice new 4 bed house and even chipped in to convert a downstairs room into a wetroom as the woman is too fat to get up the stairs. A couple of my own friends are the same - neither have worked in 6 years due to disabilities (dodgy knee and a bad back) yet by some miracle they were prancing about without a care in the world when I was at their wedding. They also somehow make it down to the pub every Friday night. Doctors sign a sick note for any old thing these days. I hope you got a video or photo on your phone and shopped them to the Benefits office Cheating theiving fat scum should be made to repay it all, after going to jail or being fed to killer whales |
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Post by elsidibe on Dec 7, 2011 10:00:37 GMT
It's about margins too. I'm self-employed and have taken a 20% cut in my day/hourly rates since 2008 but I still have enough to get by on despite soaring living costs. Someone on £67.50 a week doesn't enjoy that margin of comfort and should therefore get an increase. It's false logic to deny them: if those people end up homeless or in serious debt, it costs the taxpayer far more money to sort them out.
Of course fraudulent claimants should be punished severely but they represent only a small percentage of the whole.
It's a problem that'll be very hard to solve as long as we have falling employment rates and rising costs of living. This isn't the fault of the claimants: successive governments have shafted the economy for decades in the name of short term party political gain. Fortunately for them, most of the idiot electorate is fickle enough to buy their excuses that it's the other lot/the foreigners/the unions/the global economy wot done it. Until enough people get wise to the fact that party politics doesn't work, this will continue eternally.
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 7, 2011 17:56:45 GMT
Benefits increases send out right sort of message in a civilised country.
Would've thought alot of local people in Stoke will be benefiting from this rise . Quite fucking right too .
There aren't enough jobs for everyone due to the fact we're in a virtual depression already . Or maybe everyone without a job should be dumped onto the streets to survive as best as they can ( welcome back good old Victorian values , maybe we can get kids doing really shit jobs as well , that'll save money ) . That or they should move somewhere else just to work and leave ghost towns in their wake , I suppose.
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Post by french toast on Dec 7, 2011 23:39:22 GMT
pop out several kids and you will earn more than the average wage...FACT!
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Post by french toast on Dec 7, 2011 23:39:49 GMT
i say earn but you know what i mean
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Post by Tubes on Dec 8, 2011 5:56:13 GMT
pop out several kids and you will earn more than the average wage...FACT! source? |
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Post by salopstick on Dec 8, 2011 9:18:49 GMT
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Post by bettysgravy on Dec 8, 2011 9:31:29 GMT
It doesn't really need a source does it? As its pretty common knowledge to anyone who's head is above the sand.
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Post by swampySCFC on Dec 8, 2011 9:32:49 GMT
No harm in increasing benefits by 5.2% at all. However there is also no harm in someone who works hard over long hours and who is creating wealth for the country receiving a decent bonus for their efforts. In terms of benefits, of course there are genuine claimants who should be protected by such rises but there also plenty who arent prepared to walk half a mile to work that they can do and who think that the first think that the country requires is for them to produce children so the tax payers can support them |
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Post by Northy on Dec 8, 2011 9:48:48 GMT
It doesn't really need a source does it? As its pretty common knowledge to anyone who's head is above the sand. exactly, My Mrs works in social housing, i'm flabbergasted about the state of some of this countries people and the things they will do to get something for nothing. |
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Post by french toast on Dec 8, 2011 11:50:58 GMT
pop out several kids and you will earn more than the average wage...FACT! source? i know people who do it. |
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