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Post by smithyxstokiex on Oct 31, 2011 23:01:04 GMT
Did not play well tonight, mind you, no one did... However i dont understand why he doesnt play in more early crosses instead of messing around with the ball at his feet, it would of atleast caused abit more of a threat in the air around the opposing box. Its as if he tries to be too clever and do too much fancy stuff that comes to nothing and it frustrates me so much.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 31, 2011 23:05:06 GMT
I actually thought Pennant and Wilko were linking up quite well to begin with.
However once Huth was brought on, JP due to receiving absolutely ZERO support from Huth, was pretty much left to play for nothing more than free kicks and throw-ins.
It must be unbelievably frustrating for a player with his talent to be handicapped to such a degree and it is of course a criminal waste of talent for us as a team overall.
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Post by Peters Pipe on Oct 31, 2011 23:07:51 GMT
Paul, they doubled up on both wingers and we had no idea how to get the ball through the middle to compensate for this.... if we'd started exploiting the middle because of this we would have created more space for Ethers and JP. We didn't test them when it was clear they had that route covered - no plan B.
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Post by stantheman on Oct 31, 2011 23:10:13 GMT
I got fed up of Pennant and several other players tonight holding onto the ball for far too long when a first time ball into the box would have been the best option. We were very, very laboured tonight. everything we did, free kicks, goal kicks, throws and corners took forever. Bolton will be rubbing their hands together
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 31, 2011 23:15:34 GMT
Paul, they doubled up on both wingers and we had no idea how to get the ball through the middle to compensate for this.... if we'd started exploiting the middle because of this we would have created more space for Ethers and JP. We didn't test them when it was clear they had that route covered - no plan B. That's the point ... it's a piece of piss to double up on a winger when the fullback is standing on the half way line making no attempt to support the winger. Wilko and JP linked up a few times in the first half hour because Andy was actually prepared to get forward and give Newcastle an extra player to think about. Once Huth was moved there, Pennant was left to fend for himself and it was pretty much two (or even three) against one. I'm not going to blame Huth to much though because he isn't a full back in a million years.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 31, 2011 23:19:02 GMT
Bang on Paul. If we were going to create anything it would have been through Pennant.
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Post by Peters Pipe on Oct 31, 2011 23:19:04 GMT
Paul, several times over I just couldn't believe how isolated some of our players (mostly across the midfield) looked; not another team-mate within 10-15 yards way too often. Quite how we managed to do that on such a narrow pitch is a little beyond me...
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Post by kaney78 on Oct 31, 2011 23:19:34 GMT
Think pennat bit lazy myself.can turn it on against the lesser teams but not good at all againts the better teams imo.good player but not done enough for me since he come here,same as crouch.bet ill get a load of shit from people now but just what i think:-(
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Post by Davef on Oct 31, 2011 23:20:48 GMT
Guttierez did an outstanding job on him tonight.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 31, 2011 23:22:20 GMT
And yet he was still our best midfielder and the only player capable of keeping possession.
Matty and Whelan gave it the hot potato treatment all night.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Oct 31, 2011 23:23:39 GMT
It's quite simple, regardless of who is behind you, who is to the left of you and even who is lodged up your backside. If you're a winger, your job is to take your man on and get a ball into the box. Neither winger did often enough and given we have a 12M striker in the box, its absolutely fucking criminal.
NOT good enough and no excuses.
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Post by pulismaskreplica on Oct 31, 2011 23:25:23 GMT
One of our better performers this season IMHO Still finding his form this season but I think he's great
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Post by Irish Stokie on Oct 31, 2011 23:28:49 GMT
Thought he was one of our better players but was well marshalled by two players.
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Post by melbournepotter on Oct 31, 2011 23:33:31 GMT
Pennant was crowded out all night. He was looking for support but Newcastle pressed very close to him and denied him space. Wilko pushed on early and there was a combination starting to happen, but once Huth came on, the support went. Like other posters, noy having a go at Huth because he's not a RB is he !
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 31, 2011 23:33:54 GMT
It's quite simple, regardless of who is behind you, who is to the left of you and even who is lodged up your backside. If you're a winger, your job is to take your man on and get a ball into the box. Neither winger did often enough and given we have a 12M striker in the box, its absolutely fucking criminal. NOT good enough and no excuses. Problem being with that (ridiculously) over simplistc analysis SSV, is that if your full back isn't supporting you, then invariably it will be a case of having to take on men (ie. the plural of man) which is of course a much harder task to perform for ANY winger (no matter how good).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 23:36:30 GMT
The form of Etherington is concerning me more than Pennnant. If mattys injured he shouldnt be playing and on current form he also shouldnt be playing. Its a real problem this one.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Oct 31, 2011 23:49:51 GMT
It's quite simple, regardless of who is behind you, who is to the left of you and even who is lodged up your backside. If you're a winger, your job is to take your man on and get a ball into the box. Neither winger did often enough and given we have a 12M striker in the box, its absolutely fucking criminal. NOT good enough and no excuses. Problem being with that (ridiculously) over simplistc analysis SSV, is that if your full back isn't supporting you, then invariably it will be a case of having to take on men (ie. the plural of man) which is of course a much harder task to perform for ANY winger (no matter how good). Absolute bollocks Paul. Quit with the excuses. Pennant wasn't double marked all game. He had more than enough chances to push a ball past a full back into open space and he chose to go inside or back. Don't get me started on the other one either. Totally the managers fault for not bringing a winger in. They could sit in the stand for 90 minutes and still get a game. Worst of all they know it as well.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 1, 2011 0:11:00 GMT
Problem being with that (ridiculously) over simplistc analysis SSV, is that if your full back isn't supporting you, then invariably it will be a case of having to take on men (ie. the plural of man) which is of course a much harder task to perform for ANY winger (no matter how good). Absolute bollocks Paul. Quit with the excuses. Pennant wasn't double marked all game. He had more than enough chances to push a ball past a full back into open space and he chose to go inside or back. Don't get me started on the other one either. Totally the managers fault for not bringing a winger in. They could sit in the stand for 90 minutes and still get a game. Worst of all they know it as well. If you don't accept that the support of a full back, of indeed non support of a full back, can have an effect on a wingers game per se, then I'll respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. However, it might just be worth making a note to yourself during the rest of the season and deciding if you feel that JP plays better when when Huth is at full back or when Wilko is at full back. I appreciate that there is absolutely no direct connection between the two but it'd be interesting to see come next Spring how your scorecard reads ...
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Post by Squeekster on Nov 1, 2011 0:14:52 GMT
Pennant did ok tonight had no support at all,maybe could of crossed it a bit sooner on a few occasions but over all was decent.
Now Matty thats a different story.
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 1, 2011 0:17:03 GMT
Never mind doubling up on him, they tripled up on him as soon as he got the ball. The same went for Etherington.
What has happened to his set pieces and crosses this season? His final ball, when he did get to putting a cross in, was poor.
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Post by skelman on Nov 1, 2011 0:22:25 GMT
Neither wingers are getting much support.
Opponents are able to read our wingers much too easily because there are few options open to Jermaine or Matty other than to try to take on the opposition single handed.
Then when the defenders double up we're stuffed. It's like trying to have a sh1t when you're constipated. No matter how hard you try, you get fekkin nowhere !!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2011 0:23:07 GMT
The starting position of the wingers during play confuses me.
They always seem so withdrawn, and when they receive the ball it's always to their feet, often with their back to goal, rather than in front of them to run onto and attack the opposition full back.
By the time they've controlled the ball and set off on a run from a standing start, the opposition have had time to organise so that whichever winger has the ball, there's two men on them.
This reduces our only supply line from open play, leaving us with Rory's throws which don't really seem to work anymore.
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Nov 1, 2011 1:54:07 GMT
Guttierez did an outstanding job on him tonight. Bang on.They doubled up on our only truly creative player brilliantly and stopped the supply to Crouch.
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Post by mrpickles on Nov 1, 2011 9:52:21 GMT
Whilst i agree with Paul that Pennant plays better with Wilko rather than Huth, there was one ocassion last night (with huth on the pitch) where pennant actually did the hard work by beating his man and had space to run in to, but instead turned back inside. I know he's lost a fair bit of his pace from his younger days, but he would have certainly been quick enough to get much further up the pitch, if he'd have run into the space he'd created for himself. That aside, i'm much less worried about Pennants form than Matty's A new winger, or at the very least a couple of opportunities for Ben Marshall in January is the priority.
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Post by potterglen on Nov 1, 2011 10:08:28 GMT
Can't believe Pennant is the discussion while the useless Delap is on the pitch for every game. Every high ball that went into the box last night was dealt with effectively by the 'keeper or defence - do we change tactics? Do we f***!
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Post by mailman44 on Nov 1, 2011 10:27:20 GMT
Our central midfield was on holiday last night. They offered nothing except long throws, didn't get forward or back, and couldn't string. Few passes together much less give the wingers an option and show for them. Whelan and Delap do not work together. Too much of the same almost Lampard/ Gerrard type of dilemma.
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Post by stokelad84 on Nov 1, 2011 10:41:42 GMT
Pennant was poor. Once again our best crosser of the ball failed to put in a good delivery.
No doubt TP promised Crouch plenty of service from the left and right wing. Just a shame he hasn'y had any yet.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Nov 1, 2011 18:22:29 GMT
Absolute bollocks Paul. Quit with the excuses. Pennant wasn't double marked all game. He had more than enough chances to push a ball past a full back into open space and he chose to go inside or back. Don't get me started on the other one either. Totally the managers fault for not bringing a winger in. They could sit in the stand for 90 minutes and still get a game. Worst of all they know it as well. If you don't accept that the support of a full back, of indeed non support of a full back, can have an effect on a wingers game per se, then I'll respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. However, it might just be worth making a note to yourself during the rest of the season and deciding if you feel that JP plays better when when Huth is at full back or when Wilko is at full back. I appreciate that there is absolutely no direct connection between the two but it'd be interesting to see come next Spring how your scorecard reads ... Paul, I have no doubt that Pennant 'plays better' (for me I define that as seeing more of the ball in better area's) with the support of the full back. I have no need or motivation to create a scorecard because I already know the answer. That isn't the argument i'm making. My problem with our wingers pretty much all season is that they've been bang out of form regardless of who has been behind them. I see it as an excuse, particularly tonight, when you see a 45 minute performance from Pennant that saw one or two meaningful crosses with a natural full back behind him and another with Huth behind him. Regardless of who is behind him, there will come a time when he has to beat a man and put a quality ball across. Wilkinson and Wilson were caught out of position for the first goal. Wilson firstly and Wilkinson secondly. It's no criticism of him (Wilko) at all. It's life and shit happens when you push your full backs up so far to help out your failing wingers. I can live with that risk if we are gaining so much from it but we aren't - on either flank. When our wingers are in a position to cross they are either dilly dallying on the ball too much, taking the wrong option of cutting inside or going backwards, or putting in a dire cross. I genuinely can't remember the last quality assist from open play from either player. Only so much of that can be put at there being two markers and a lack of support from a full back before you have to be harsh and start asking some serious questions. Finally, apologies for the swearing. I was in a bit of a foul mood last night after witnessing that performance. No excuse and no need.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 1, 2011 18:25:58 GMT
Paul, they doubled up on both wingers and we had no idea how to get the ball through the middle to compensate for this.... if we'd started exploiting the middle because of this we would have created more space for Ethers and JP. We didn't test them when it was clear they had that route covered - no plan B. THIS Gutierrez basically played as a second left back last night so Pennant never had the space. Unfortunately Whelan and Delap could not take advantage of the glaring space left in the middle of the park because they are gash at creating anything
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