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Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2011 8:21:33 GMT
Don't know about anyone else but I work in the private sector and we have had a pay freeze for the last 5 years.
They have finally (4 years too late) frozen public sector pay.
Since working people have had their pay frozen then would it be unreasonable to expect those who are in effect paid by those of us who are working through taxation to 'enjoy' a similar freeze?
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Post by pittshillplotter on Oct 20, 2011 8:38:14 GMT
Given that in many areas 25% of children are now officially classed as living in poverty , and given the unparalleled demand for charity 'food banks' for families who cannot afford to eat ....then the simple answer is no.
Benefits are not 'wages' and should not be treated as such. They are an 'emergency fund' which is designed to help families who have fell on hard times.
I was talking to a Taxi driver yesterday who told me that he was having to claim certain benefits as a result of only being able to earn £30 for an 8 hour shift....that's less than £ 4 an hour.
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Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2011 9:13:42 GMT
Got it. People who work don't have their pay linked to inflation and so suffer an effective pay cut year on year, those who don't work keep the link with inflation. Sounds fair enough to me  |
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Post by stokester1989 on Oct 20, 2011 9:42:05 GMT
Dissability benifits , Child care benifits and benifits for the elderly who cant afford to keep there house warm ect should be kept running.
But Job seekers should be alot more strict you should only get them but if you cant find a job within 3 months your clearly doing something wrong so many people i know say they cant find work but the main reason is because they wont do a naff job like maccys or shelf stacking,.. doesnt matter what the job is aslong as you can provide for your self.
Also strongly dissagree that alcaholics get money so they can keep drinking. joke!
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Post by DannyStokie on Oct 20, 2011 10:09:36 GMT
If I worked at maccy d's while claiming JSA, I'd be earning less while working.
What does this tell you.
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Post by redstriper on Oct 20, 2011 10:27:05 GMT
I'm co-owner of a small business (26 employees), and me and the other guy haven't had a pay rise in four years.
But, benefits should only be frozen where they were too high in the first place, a blanket freeze will cause hardship to some who are genuinly on the edge. But anyone who manages to afford sky TV and run a car on benefits is clearly way over the emergency level.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 3:02:08 GMT
If you worked at Maccy D's why would you be entitled to claim anything? Surely you would get minimum wage?
Unless you are talking about a part time job? Which are only really suited to working parents (politically correct nearly said mothers) or students.
What I can tell you is working at anything would give you a sence of pride and gain you respect from everyone else who works for a living.
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Post by mistersausage on Oct 21, 2011 8:11:09 GMT
I see humanitarianism is finally dead on the Oatcake. I wonder how many of those who berate people on benefits will change their opinion when they lose their jobs in the next 12 months.
Talk about fucking selfish. It makes me cringe and I've worked all my life.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Oct 21, 2011 15:46:38 GMT
Speaking of fucking selfish. We've now got well off public sector professionals wanting to strike so they can retire at 55 and keep their perks. They're effectively saying to their children and grandchildren, that you got to work till you die to pay for my retirement. Classic Thatcherite selfishness.
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Post by mermaidsal on Oct 21, 2011 20:17:50 GMT
Given that in many areas 25% of children are now officially classed as living in poverty , and given the unparalleled demand for charity 'food banks' for families who cannot afford to eat ....then the simple answer is no. Benefits are not 'wages' and should not be treated as such. They are an 'emergency fund' which is designed to help families who have fell on hard times. I was talking to a Taxi driver yesterday who told me that he was having to claim certain benefits as a result of only being able to earn £30 for an 8 hour shift....that's less than £ 4 an hour. Agree with all that. Also, freezing benefits with inflation on the rise would do real harm to OAPs and people with severe disabilities. Also, we're so dependent on retail and service industries now that we can't afford so many of population unable to spend... |
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Post by mistersausage on Oct 21, 2011 20:20:23 GMT
Amazing how the targets for savings always seem to be those at the bottom of the pile. I bet the bankers are still having to buy bigger belts every couple of months due to their four three course meals per day  |
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Post by frasier45 on Oct 21, 2011 20:25:35 GMT
Yes they should.........................But not Bread
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Post by salopstick on Oct 21, 2011 20:29:19 GMT
Speaking of fucking selfish. We've now got well off public sector professionals wanting to strike so they can retire at 55 and keep their perks. They're effectively saying to their children and grandchildren, that you got to work till you die to pay for my retirement. Classic Thatcherite selfishness. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 21, 2011 21:05:19 GMT
If you worked at Maccy D's why would you be entitled to claim anything? Surely you would get minimum wage? Unless you are talking about a part time job? Which are only really suited to working parents (politically correct nearly said mothers) or students. What I can tell you is working at anything would give you a sense of pride and gain you respect from everyone else who works for a living. Therein lies the problem mate. Too many people these days don't have the pride that you mention. I've heard so many times that working would only make them slightly better off if at all so they won't bother unless they're given a good wage. The longer they stay unemployed the harder it is to get a job nevermind a well paid one. The concept that if they do that job for a while they may get a promotion and payrise or make it easier to apply for other better paid jobs seems totally lost on them. * * The usual disclaimer that this isn't a blanket generalisation of ALL unemployed people but there is a large proportion. ** ** I shouldn't have to put the above disclaimer but if i didn't no doubt some muppet would assume it was |
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Oct 21, 2011 21:31:27 GMT
No the benefit system is great. Encourage people to have more children by rewarding them with more money.
And if anybody dares to question it, we lay on the whole 'poor children, greedy bankers' bullshit.
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Post by french toast on Oct 21, 2011 21:57:18 GMT
actually benefits are going down, for example housing benefit has been reduced, which means that some people are really struggling to keep a roof over their head and have to use some of their 60 quid a week dole to help pay for rent etc.
which might leave that person with 40 quid per week for bills and food (many even less).
the benefits system does need changing, but lets target the people who make it a lifestyle choice, not the people who use it as a safety net.
being out of work fucks your head up, a job is worth so much more than money
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Post by frasier45 on Oct 21, 2011 22:51:19 GMT
actually benefits are going down, for example housing benefit has been reduced, which means that some people are really struggling to keep a roof over their head and have to use some of their 60 quid a week dole to help pay for rent etc. which might leave that person with 40 quid per week for bills and food (many even less). the benefits system does need changing, but lets target the people who make it a lifestyle choice, not the people who use it as a safety net. being out of work fucks your head up, a job is worth so much more than money I agree with this guy, he knows his onions  |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 21, 2011 23:10:33 GMT
actually benefits are going down, for example housing benefit has been reduced, which means that some people are really struggling to keep a roof over their head and have to use some of their 60 quid a week dole to help pay for rent etc. which might leave that person with 40 quid per week for bills and food (many even less). the benefits system does need changing, but lets target the people who make it a lifestyle choice, not the people who use it as a safety net. being out of work fucks your head up, a job is worth so much more than money I agree with this guy, he knows his onions That explains his bad breath i suppose |
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Post by DannyStokie on Oct 21, 2011 23:11:39 GMT
If you worked at Maccy D's why would you be entitled to claim anything? Surely you would get minimum wage? Unless you are talking about a part time job? Which are only really suited to working parents (politically correct nearly said mothers) or students. What I can tell you is working at anything would give you a sence of pride and gain you respect from everyone else who works for a living. Sorry, I worded it wrong. I meant I get more money on JSA than working at Macy's 's I'm currently applying for jobs at a number of different places but I can't force them. I also spend other free time at a local charity shop, I don't need a lecture in ' working gives a sense of pride', I know that, I was merely pointing out I would earn more on JSA than at maccy D's. I hate being at home, all day. Can't stand it which is why I enjoy helping out at the charity shop. |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 21, 2011 23:14:20 GMT
If you worked at Maccy D's why would you be entitled to claim anything? Surely you would get minimum wage? Unless you are talking about a part time job? Which are only really suited to working parents (politically correct nearly said mothers) or students. What I can tell you is working at anything would give you a sence of pride and gain you respect from everyone else who works for a living. Sorry, I worded it wrong. I meant I get more money on JSA than working at Macy's 's I'm currently applying for jobs at a number of different places but I can't force them. I also spend other free time at a local charity shop, I don't need a lecture in ' working gives a sense of pride', I know that, I was merely pointing out I would earn more on JSA than at maccy D's. I hate being at home, all day. Can't stand it which is why I enjoy helping out at the charity shop. So if you work 40 hours a week at Maccy's you won't take home more than £60? |
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Post by adri2008 on Oct 21, 2011 23:17:02 GMT
Don't see the need to freeze benefits but it needs reforming to make it a safety net and not a long term option. Obviously the genuinely disadvantaged are treated differently.
Some sort of voucher system for child benefit so the money can only be spent on the child and not to subsidise Sky TV would be a good start.
Then some sort of diminishing returns policy on JSA - maximise support for those recently out of work to help them get back on their feet, and take the money from the bone idle, haven't done anything for 10 years brigade.
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Post by DannyStokie on Oct 21, 2011 23:23:15 GMT
Sorry, I worded it wrong. I meant I get more money on JSA than working at Macy's 's I'm currently applying for jobs at a number of different places but I can't force them. I also spend other free time at a local charity shop, I don't need a lecture in ' working gives a sense of pride', I know that, I was merely pointing out I would earn more on JSA than at maccy D's. I hate being at home, all day. Can't stand it which is why I enjoy helping out at the charity shop. So if you work 40 hours a week at Maccy's you won't take home more than £60? I get more than £60 My problem is im partially sighted, can never drive. I don't care what anyone says, employers look at this. |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 21, 2011 23:27:43 GMT
If I worked at maccy d's while claiming JSA, I'd be earning less while working. What does this tell you. Well your question "What does this tell you?" didn't tell us that |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 23:28:00 GMT
Whilst others in affable areas struggle with the terrible dilemma of buying a blue or red Maserati....
Doctors earning £200,000 a year ....footballers on £200,000 a week who can't even spell Docter...
Barristers on £ 300,000 a year , who thrive on protecting footballers misdemeanours..
But I digress....Lets carry on squabbling about the waifs & strays caught on the periphery of mainstream society. Lets take issue on their lack of intelligence , lets dwell on the genetic frailities.
But above all else , lets not mention the massive profits the banks and blue chip companies make as a result of menial cheap labour.
This is this the society we all live in ....''I'm alright Jack.''
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Post by DannyStokie on Oct 21, 2011 23:31:46 GMT
If I worked at maccy d's while claiming JSA, I'd be earning less while working. What does this tell you. Well your question "What does this tell you?" didn't tell us that Thanks for the input, much appreciated |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 21, 2011 23:33:41 GMT
Whilst others in affable areas struggle with the terrible dilemma of buying a blue or red Maserati.... Doctors earning £200,000 a year ....footballers on £200,000 a week who can't even spell Docter... Barristers on £ 300,000 a year , who thrive on protecting footballers misdemeanours.. But I digress....Lets carry on squabbling about the waifs & strays caught on the periphery of mainstream society. Lets take issue on their lack of intelligence , lets dwell on the genetic frailities. But above all else , lets not mention the massive profits the banks and blue chip companies make as a result of menial cheap labour. This is this the society we all live in ....''I'm alright Jack.'' Another lame argument. There are plenty of people that don't like and complain about all the above examples you've made. I'm capable of being disgusted about all of those aswell as being pissed off that some people on benefits can somehow drive better cars, go on holidays and have more disposable income than other people who work for a living. It's just not right. Start a thread on any of the above and we'll all have opinions on them that aren't favourable. The difference is we all know people bleeding the system so it's a bit closer to home. |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 21, 2011 23:36:55 GMT
Well your question "What does this tell you?" didn't tell us that Thanks for the input, much appreciated I'm not sure what input you wanted from me, i was just wondering how you couldn't get more than £60 a week a Maccys as you didn't explain it. You're disabled and are perfectly entitled to your benefits. You also work in a charity shop which is very commendable. There's not many people who would have any problem with your situation. I certainly don't |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 23:43:49 GMT
Well....you may know some , but personally I don't.
I do know of some with brash £100,000 cars however, but no concept or interest of real poverty.
The only thing 'lame' about my comments , is the apathy of those who fail to see further than next doors garden.
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Post by DannyStokie on Oct 21, 2011 23:51:02 GMT
Thanks for the input, much appreciated I'm not sure what input you wanted from me, i was just wondering how you couldn't get more than £60 a week a Maccys as you didn't explain it. You're disabled and are perfectly entitled to your benefits. You also work in a charity shop which is very commendable. There's not many people who would have any problem with your situation. I certainly don't I hate being on the dole, hate it more than anything, you go in and are treated as if you scum. They told me their main objective is to get people off it, however possible. Which I think is complete shit, why don't they help me find a job? All they do when I can go in is talk about go on a 3 day courses to learn about health and safety or a 5 day computer course, I studied computers for 3 years, I'm perfectly capable of using one. They gave a work experience placement at tesco, 8 hours a day , Saturdays off, no job at the end of it for 6 months off, less beneifits and I had to buy the all the uniform, well if they haven't got any jobs going, why are they taking me on to work for nothing. |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 21, 2011 23:57:02 GMT
Well....you may know some , but personally I don't. I do know of some with brash £100,000 cars however, but no concept or interest of real poverty. The only thing 'lame' about my comments , is the apathy of those who fail to see further than next doors garden. Start a thread on greedy, thieving bankers and overpaid footballers and see if they are completely ignored. Just because there are other problems in the world doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on this. I also know people who are very well off with no idea of poverty but as far as i'm aware they've all worked hard and earned it. A mate of mine used to work with me in Bilston and he'd been with us for 5 years. The business was moved to Telford which is a massive 30 minute drive away. We provided free transport and a pay rise to keep all the staff who wanted to stay but also offered them the chance to take redundancy if they preferred. The redundancy offer was left open for them for 12 months. After 6 months 5 of the 6 had left and 10 years later two of them are still unemployed. I spoke to one of them recently and he said he could have accepted lots of jobs but he wasn't willing to work unless he could earn lots more than on the dole. That's 20 years of benefits between the two of them because they are basically bone idle. Do you think that is acceptable? |
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