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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 10, 2011 22:49:30 GMT
Capitalism isn't perfect, but it perfectly reflects humanity because it's the only system that comes natural and has ever worked. And what the he'll does capitalism have to do with racism and sexism. No ones equal, and that's why there'll never be equality. "Capitalism isn't perfect" I think that is an understatement as we live an era of endless war, mass inequality, suffering and starvation while a tiny elite have unparalleled wealth. Capitalism "comes natural and has ever worked." I think you are seriously playing down how hard the capitalists, the bourgeouis merchants, bankers and traders led their 'revolutions' against the landed interest, aristocracy and monarchy to overthrow feudalism to establish capitalism ~350 years ago in the UK and ~ 250 years ago in France, Germany etc. This "natural" 'order' had to be accompanied by brutal repression in the UK in the early 19th century, kicking the peasants off the 'common land' with the 'Inclosure Acts' in the UK. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclosure_ActsIn short, they kicked the peasants off the land so that to survive they had to work in the brutal conditions of the mills/factories of the time so that they wouldn't starve to death. Naturally the peasantry resented this and thousands would rather die than work for a wage as a 'wage-slave/labourer'. Hence the rise in rogues, vagabonds, highwaymen (e.g. Dick Turpin) and the like robbing from the rich. It was during the 18th and early 19th century that the majority of hangings were predominantly for theft and crimes against property. Hence the passage of Acts such as the Black Act in 1723 which made poaching the King's deer punishable by death. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ActBy the early 19th century hangings were more commonly used for crimes against property than for the murder. However rising unpopularity of the punishments co-inciding with the 1st mass working class movement in history, the Chartists, led the ruling class to turn to new methods of repression (the foundation of the Police) to control the roiling masses. "And what the he'll does capitalism have to do with racism and sexism" Further to the brutal repression of the state and the police under capitalism new ideologies had to be convoked to divide the working class from realising this state of affairs and leading a revolution. Hence the reliance on racism, which was initially against 'white' Irish immigrants, Eastern Europeans and Jews. Only after the horrors of the holocaust did anti-Semitism, anti- Jewish racism, become unfashionable for the far-right, the Nazis and the ruling class. A new target had to be chosen which is currently Muslims. In short, racism pits one worker against another and prevents from them uniting and fighting back. Sexism is similar in this regard but has more to do with the importance of the 'family' in reproducing capitalist life by privatising the costs of childcare, by making the individual, rather than the state responsible for reproducing the new generation of exploited workers. Furthermore, given the importance of replicating the current class system as cheaply as possible, anything which threatened the stability of the family was to be criminalized. Hence the sodomy laws and the paranoia against homosexuals, lesbians etc. In short, sexism again divides workers by discriminating between female and male workers with supporting reactionary ideology against gays, lesbians etc. " No ones equal, and that's why there'll never be equality." I am not talking about enforced or imposed equality. People are far more equal in their attributes, skills and talents than comtemporary society gives them credit for. For example, in the UK in the last 50 years too many smart working class kids were succeeding and graduating with degrees. This has posed an existential problem under late capitalism since Thatcher since there are not enough graduate jobs to support them due to the driving down of the wage-rate by outsourcing jobs to far east, Asia, India etc whilst domestic unemployment soars. The Tories are thriving in decimating future working class generations' education since the privatization of education will lead to the closing of schools, colleges, universities which means fewer working class graduates. This will result in the working-class 'knowing their place' with universities again becoming elite institutions, bastions of privilege for bourgeois kids who are the 'right sort of person' for such an education. After all, the Tories kids are better than working class kids, or 'chavs,' don't you know? "Capitalism... is the only system... that has ever worked." I presume by 'worked' you are considering: slavery, the stealing of lands from the peasantry, the horrors of the workhouse, the mass slaughter of millions in World War I, the rise of fascism, the Nazis, an even more bloody war in World War II, the holocaust, nuclear weapons, the near annihilation of the human race during the Cuban Missile crisis, apartheid, global warming etc etc... Currently capitalism is responsible for 'austerity': a massive assault on the working class living standards, uunprecedented military expenditure, supporting dictators in the Arab world, needless wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, increasinly anti-Muslim racism, the resurgence of the Nazis/the far-right (in the UK the EDL/BNP) and a reliance on fossil fuels which is destroying the planet and threatening the survival of the human race. So capitalism isn't just "far from perfect." It is insane, brutal, exploitative, destructive and which threatens the survival of the human race. To survive will require a revolution and in that situation, the lesson of Germany 1918-1945 is that you have two choices: a society built on hope (socialism) or one built on despair (fascism/the Nazis with humanity paying the price in blood and millions of lives lost).
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Post by pittshillplotter on Aug 10, 2011 23:02:11 GMT
Mmm..... Perhaps Communism is the way forward then...?
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 10, 2011 23:21:31 GMT
What have the bankers etc got to do with this situation? This situation is caused by scum who have grown up in a world where getting some bint knocked up and claiming the maximum benefits is a career choice. The government happily continue to give these handouts to anyone. Got 6 kids, fuck it here you go have £2k a month. The fact that you make no effort to teach these kids right and wrong is irrelevant. Where if you want a mobile phone or laptop, you don't save up for it, you pick up a knife and you just take it off someone else. Mum and Dad never worked for anything so why should little Kevin. And the speed at which these 'families' grow is accelerated as they are producing the next wave of wasters even before theyre able to legally buy a pint. As for my kids (i have two daughters not a son), i am already saving for them to give them a start in life. It wont be easy if they want to go to uni, but we are trying to make it a little easier. When we decided to have our second, we sat down and worked out if we could afford it, how we would pay for things, what would happen if one of us lost our job. If we hadnt been able to afford another child, we wouldnt have had one. There are to many people who just say 'i want a kid, some one else will pay', or even worse 'i want a PS3, i'll have a kid and the benefits will pay for it'. The free money for all culture needs to stop. Why, after 4 nights of trouble were there kids aged 10 on the streets? Because the parents dont give a fuck enough to keep them in. It has nothing to do with the banks, the police, the government, the lack of oppotunities blah blah blah. It is down to shit people having kids. What have the bankers etc got to do with this situation? They crashed the economy and required a bailout costing £23,000 for every person in the UK. As a result of this bailout they are calling for 'austerity' - scrapping the meagre EMA benefit for working class kids, tripling tuition fees, scrapping benefits for the sick and disabled and are sacking 1.4million workers over the next 4 years. They are presiding over mass youth unemployment, poverty and record inequality which is ruining young people's futures. "This situation is caused by scum... on benefits" People on benefits did not crash the world economy. They are not privatizing education, healthcare and sacking millions of workers. The bankers and the Tories are. ""who make no effort to teach these kids right and wrong" I think a fair number of these kids know 'right from wrong.' Is it not wrong that police shoot innocent people dead with impunity? Is it not wrong that hundreds of people die in custody without a single police officer ever being convicted? Is it not wrong that Philip Green and other multi-billionaires avoid and evade hundreds of millions in tax every year that could cover the cuts to these young people's educations? "It has nothing to do with the banks, the police, the government, the lack of oppotunities blah blah blah. It is down to shit people having kids." So what would happen if all benefits to these people were stopped? I presume you are in favour of watching people and children starving to death on the streets? Wouldn't starving people on the streets threaten private property even more and increase the likelihood of future riots/civil unrest? "It is down to shit people having kids." Very reminiscent of the deserving and undeserving poor memes of Victorian discourse. Some poor people are worthy of charity but others not. So would you be the self-appointed judge and expert as to who deserves to have children and who doesn't? What would your solution be? Forced sterilisation for the 'shit people'/undeserving?
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 10, 2011 23:26:13 GMT
Mmm..... Perhaps Communism is the way forward then...? Nope. The 'Communism' of Eastern Europe/the Soviet Union was in fact state capitalism which is every bit as exploitative, evil, brutal and insane as private/monopoly/finance capitalism of the West. What we need is International Socialism. We need the working class of the world in their respective countries: USA, UK, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia etc to have revolutions and establish the most democratic, equal, free socities ever seen. The closest that the world came was 1917-1923 when Russia had a revolution and the German socialist revolution failed. Society would be built democratically to empower as many people as possible to satisfy human need not human greed.
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Post by adri2008 on Aug 10, 2011 23:36:42 GMT
Socialism is great in theory but impossible to implement in practice in my opinion. It requires everyone to be pulling in the same direction and I don't see how that is possible unless there is some sort of common enemy/problem/goal which bonds the population together (e.g like world war 2). It would require a total change in mindset. There is of course many other problems. No system will ever be perfect.
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 11, 2011 0:09:31 GMT
Socialism is great in theory but impossible to implement in practice in my opinion. It requires everyone to be pulling in the same direction and I don't see how that is possible unless there is some sort of common enemy/problem/goal which bonds the population together (e.g like world war 2). It would require a total change in mindset. There is of course many other problems. No system will ever be perfect. Socialism is great in theory but impossible to implement in practice in my opinion. Russia led a socialist revolution in 1917. There were soviets - workers councils with the democratic society ever built, ended the reign of a brutal dictator - the Tsar, massively enhanced civil liberties with women having access to divorce + abortion and the legalisation of homosexuality only 60 years before it happened in the UK! Sadly the capitalist countries sent 13 armies, slaughtered millions of the Bolshevik revolutionaries and decimated the economy. Coupled with the failure of the German revolution, capitalism survived and the revolution in Russia was doomed. However there was nothing inevitable about any of this. Without going into the ins and outs of the German revolution's failure capitalism was on the brink and if only there had a been a [a href=" revolutionary"] revolutionary[/a] socialist party, not the mass reformist 'social democratic party' (like the Labour party in UK), established by Karl liebknecht (the ONLY member of the riechstag to vote against the mass slaughter of WWI) and Rosa Luxembourg (a leading socialist theorist of her time) before the uprising of 1918-1919 then the revolution could have been successful and ended very differently. It requires everyone to be pulling in the same direction and I don't see how that is possible unless there is some sort of common enemy/problem/goal which bonds the population together (e.g like world war 2). First off it doesn't require everyone. It just requires the vast majority of the population, the working class, to go on a general strike. After that it requires that the rank-and-file soldiers of the army break with their officers, like they did in Russia 1917, to complete the revolution. There is a common enemy for the vast majority of people - the capitalists (the bankers/Tories). This is because we live in a class society whereby the capitalists (bankers/Tories) get their 'profits' by screwing over/exploiting the working class. The bankers/Tories are in a different class, group of people, not simply because they are so wealthy, but because they control production. They own the factories, companies, land, machinery etc to decide what gets produced in society. Working class people have to sell their labour to the capitalist to get a wage to live. Otherwise they will starve. All the capitalist's 'profits' are a result of the extra labour workers do beyond what they get paid via their wage. Since the worker's wage is a cost to the capitalist, the capitalist becomes richer by exploiting the workers more by: paying them less, working them harder and for longer. "It would require a total change in mindset. " No. It requires a rise in class consciousness. At the moment 8 million workers in the UK are in trade unions. Trade unions are reformist organisations arguing for a better deal under capitalism for their workers. However, whenever a worker goes on strike the nature of the class system and their exploitation is brought to the fore. What is required for a successful revolution is for the vast majority of the working class' consciouness, their awareness of how exploited they are, to increase, and for increasing unionisation. For a successful revolution most of these workers also have to break with the 'reformism' of the unions and old political parties (like the Labour party in UK) and join a mass revolutionary workers party (like the Bolsheviks in Russia in 1917). The closest the UK has at present is the Socialist Workers Party www.swp.org.uk. After that there has to be general strikes, stopping production under capitalism and winning the army to the revolution. " No system will ever be perfect" I agree. Nothing is ever perfect and even international socialism will not be perfect. However it is a lot more sane, less iniquitous, more democratic and gives humanity a fighting chance of surviving the 21st centuries dangers of: fascism (Nazis), thermonuclear war and ecological collapse following global warming.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 11, 2011 6:13:45 GMT
Everything royalty and the elite have is murderously looted from the ordinary people, including all their land.
Eg, CaMoron's aristocratic wealth.
Can somebody explain to me why this is considered ok?
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Aug 11, 2011 6:20:35 GMT
They crashed the economy and required a bailout costing £23,000 for every person in the UK. As a result of this bailout they are calling for 'austerity' - scrapping the meagre EMA benefit for working class kids, tripling tuition fees, scrapping benefits for the sick and disabled and are sacking 1.4million workers over the next 4 years. They are presiding over mass youth unemployment, poverty and record inequality which is ruining young people's futures. People on benefits did not crash the world economy. They are not privatizing education, healthcare and sacking millions of workers. The bankers and the Tories are. I think a fair number of these kids know 'right from wrong.' Is it not wrong that police shoot innocent people dead with impunity? Is it not wrong that hundreds of people die in custody without a single police officer ever being convicted? Is it not wrong that Philip Green and other multi-billionaires avoid and evade hundreds of millions in tax every year that could cover the cuts to these young people's educations? So what would happen if all benefits to these people were stopped? I presume you are in favour of watching people and children starving to death on the streets? Wouldn't starving people on the streets threaten private property even more and increase the likelihood of future riots/civil unrest? "It is down to shit people having kids." Very reminiscent of the deserving and undeserving poor memes of Victorian discourse. Some poor people are worthy of charity but others not. So would you be the self-appointed judge and expert as to who deserves to have children and who doesn't? What would your solution be? Forced sterilisation for the 'shit people'/undeserving? No, your right. Everybody should just have as many kids as they want and not worry about how they will look after them or bring them up, someone will pay, and the extra strain placed on schools, NHS and other facilities and services will just continue. The solution is simple, people need to take responcibilty for their actions and their choises. The country is full of people who think it is down to 'society' to provide them an income, a home, a 54 inch plasma screen TV. With regards to the massive misquote about 'scum... on benefits', again i fail to see how the bankers caused a load of kids to go and steal, rob, burn and attack innocent peoples property and homes. The same old tired arguments about tax dodging corperations are getting dragged up as an excuse for everything. Yes, the banks were in the wrong and these companies should pay tax, but it is a totally different issue, and to use them to justify this kind of behaviour is just going to carry us on down the old road of it always being someone elses fault. Nobody made these kids do what they do. Nobody made the parents not bother to keep their kids in the house while they were doing it. Nobody made this Duggen bloke carry a gun or sell drugs. Nobody makes young girls get pregnant. Nobody makes families have 5/6/7 kids they cannot affort to support. They are all choises taken by individuals and they should have to live with the outcomes of those choises, not expect everyone else to do it for them.
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Post by id on Aug 11, 2011 6:22:37 GMT
Ethnic diversity and cultural enrichment. BOLLOCKS
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 11, 2011 14:06:18 GMT
Everything royalty and the elite have is murderously looted from the ordinary people, including all their land. Eg, CaMoron's aristocratic wealth. Can somebody explain to me why this is considered ok? Hear, hear. One of the few non-hysterical posts on this thread.
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Post by elsidibe on Aug 11, 2011 14:16:57 GMT
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 11, 2011 14:39:03 GMT
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. More like: Liberators to the left of me, stormtroopers to the right.
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Aug 11, 2011 14:42:20 GMT
Everything royalty and the elite have is murderously looted from the ordinary people, including all their land. Eg, CaMoron's aristocratic wealth. Can somebody explain to me why this is considered ok? Hear, hear. One of the few non-hysterical posts on this thread. Starkiller.... non hysterical ;D ;D ;D The guy posts from a UFO proof nuclear bunker in his back yard
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Post by elsidibe on Aug 11, 2011 14:54:52 GMT
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. More like: Liberators to the left of me, stormtroopers to the right. Not really mate. I don't see much difference between the left and the right. Just different-coloured rosettes and different scapegoats. All the same rabid anger and unthinking prejudice, just (mis)directed at different targets. The reality is that this civil unrest is due to a combination of many factors, the fault of no one political entity or wing. As such, some of what you say is true, some of what the right says is true. Equally, some of what you say is horseshit, just like the absurd "it's all down to bad parenting and not enough thrashings" argument. People need to take a reality check and realise that the limiting black and white left/right divide is a huge part of the problem, not the solution. The time has come for pragmatism and a united approach.
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Post by mayf on Aug 11, 2011 14:59:56 GMT
thepottypotter,apt name mate
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 11, 2011 15:04:57 GMT
Hear, hear. One of the few non-hysterical posts on this thread. Starkiller.... non hysterical ;D ;D ;D The guy posts from a UFO proof nuclear bunker in his back yard There is a difference between paranoia and hysteria. However most of the media and the right-wing commentariat does share these psychological characteristics in equal measure. A cursory trawl of right-wing reaction would reveal tropes such as: "these 'feral' kids are scum, there is a problem of 'chavs' who are 'welfare scroungers' sucking the life out of modern Britain, 'out breeding' the hard pressed 'taxpayer' in a country where 'political correctness has gone mad' due to 'rampant immigration' leading to us being overrun by radical 'jihadi' Islam which is 'outbreeding' white 'patriots' who are 'native' to this land therefore, for the sake of 'English values' women should be denied contraception and abortion so that we can win this demographic race blablabla. All this segues nicely with the fascist mysticism and augury of the EDL/BNP. For example in his '2083 manifesto' Breivik, the Norwegian Nazi who slaughtered 92 people (predominantly schoolchildren), articulates the hysteria and paranoia of the EDL/BNP/Daily Mail of Europe becoming overrun by radical Islam which is the most dangerous threat to 'Western values' since the Enlightenment. (Breivik quotes three pages of Melanie Philips' Daily Heil articles in his manifesto and talks fondly of the EDL). Breivik blames the evils of 'cultural Marxism and 'Islamo-socialism' for these supposed problems. Hitler blamed 'Jewish-Bolshevism' 80 years ago. Any parallels perchance between far-right reaction of Breivik/EDL/BNP and the Nazis/Hitler?
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 11, 2011 15:17:34 GMT
thepottypotter,apt name mate Ever heard of something called irony? More like: Liberators to the left of me, stormtroopers to the right. Not really mate. I don't see much difference between the left and the right. Just different-coloured rosettes and different scapegoats. All the same rabid anger and unthinking prejudice, just (mis)directed at different targets. The reality is that this civil unrest is due to a combination of many factors, the fault of no one political entity or wing. As such, some of what you say is true, some of what the right says is true. Equally, some of what you say is horseshit, just like the absurd "it's all down to bad parenting and not enough thrashings" argument. People need to take a reality check and realise that the limiting black and white left/right divide is a huge part of the problem, not the solution. The time has come for pragmatism and a united approach. Well first of all I don't 'scapegoat' anybody and don't have 'unthinking prejudice.' I never said this problem was simple, no social problems are, and I do not believe that a 'single political entity' is to blame. This much vaunted 'pragmatism' such as the 'Keep calm and carry on' 'smugness results in sitting back, letting rip neo-liberal capitalism and watching the world turn to shit. Consequently education is privatized, inequality soars, 1000s of jobs leave a deprived area like Stoke, disabled people are refused welfare, the NHS is privatised, education is privatised whilst riot cops beat and maim schoolchildren. My anger is based on evidence, logic, reason and the arguments of some of the most intelligent, diligent, open-minded and progressive human beings to grace the planet such as: Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Rosa Luxembourg, Tony Cliff etc etc. On right the 'intellectual' heavyweights include Carl Schmitt (Nazi apologist), David Irving (holocaust denier), Glenn Beck/Melanie Philips (hysterical/paranoid rantings about a 'new world order' of 'Islamosocialism' bla bla). I know which side I am on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2011 15:39:13 GMT
Irrespective of whether you agree or not with thepottypotter, it's nice to see someone who can actually put a decent argument together.
Very few and far between on this board. Mayf's reply being a prime example.
Most posters reply with glib generalisations backed up by no evidence whatsoever.
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Post by amancalledhorse on Aug 11, 2011 15:41:43 GMT
My anger is based on evidence, logic, reason and the arguments of some of the most intelligent, diligent, open-minded and progressive human beings to grace the planet such as: Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Rosa Luxembourg, Tony Cliff etc etc. On right the 'intellectual' heavyweights include Carl Schmitt (Nazi apologist), David Irving (holocaust denier), Glenn Beck/Melanie Philips (hysterical/paranoid rantings about a 'new world order' of 'Islamosocialism' bla bla). I know which side I am on. You've taken a shit with your shorts on there mate. I have some sympathy for the further left-leaning writings of Marx and the like but to suggest that anything further right of that is essentially holocaust denial is ludicrous. What about any number of post-industrialism economists that in the spirit of academia, have found beauty in the mechanics of the free market? I suppose their ulterior motive would be death by sodomy of anyone with under 5 GCSEs like in the film Se7en.
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Post by elsidibe on Aug 11, 2011 15:53:24 GMT
thepottypotter,apt name mate Well first of all I don't 'scapegoat' anybody and don't have 'unthinking prejudice.' I never said this problem was simple, no social problems are, and I do not believe that a 'single political entity' is to blame. This much vaunted 'pragmatism' such as the smug 'Keep calm and carry on' 'smugness results in sitting back, letting rip neo-liberal capitalism and watching the world turn to shit. Consequently education is privatized, inequality soars, 1000s of jobs leave a deprived area like Stoke, disabled people are refused welfare, the NHS is privatised, education is privatised whilst riot cops beat and maim schoolchildren. My anger is based on evidence, logic, reason and the arguments of some of the most intelligent, diligent, open-minded and progressive human beings to grace the planet such as: Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Rosa Luxembourg, Tony Cliff etc etc. On right the 'intellectual' heavyweights include Carl Schmitt (Nazi apologist), David Irving (holocaust denier), Glenn Beck/Melanie Philips (hysterical/paranoid rantings about a 'new world order' of 'Islamosocialism' bla bla). I know which side I am on. But you do believe that one single political entity or wing is to blame: the right. And you even go on to say so ("I know which side I am on.") You betray your bias once more by comparing Marx and Lenin to Glenn Beck and Melanie Phillips. Far from even-handed, wouldn't you say? And an insult to Marx and Lenin. But then that's exactly what I pointed out before: you're not trying to view the whole picture, merely a fragmented shard of it through your political prism. You say Blair was a pragmatist but a pragmatist doesn't ignore millions marching in the streets against unpopular policies. Your rant about disabled rights, beating schoolchildren and "Keep calm and carry on" has nothing to do with anything. I'm not taking sides. The riots prove that there are enough divisions in this country already. There is some merit to what you say, just open your mind a little.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 12, 2011 14:38:18 GMT
Hear, hear. One of the few non-hysterical posts on this thread. Starkiller.... non hysterical ;D ;D ;D The guy posts from a UFO proof nuclear bunker in his back yard Maybe. But at least the music here will be to your taste .....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 8, 2014 18:04:38 GMT
No unlawful killing.
Riots part deux ahoy?
I hope the Police kick their arses if they try it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:13:50 GMT
I thought Shirley from Eastenders was speaking for the family just...
TEST
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:15:12 GMT
No unlawful killing. Riots part deux ahoy? I hope the Police kick their arses if they try it. Its going to be a bit tense tonight in Nam, especially once the drugs & drink take hold later. TEST
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 8, 2014 18:17:27 GMT
No unlawful killing. Riots part deux ahoy? I hope the Police kick their arses if they try it. Its going to be a bit tense tonight in Nam, especially once the drugs & drink take hold later. TEST Hopefully it'll be a bit too cold and wet for the scumbags.
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Post by frankboughsbutplug on Jan 8, 2014 19:26:34 GMT
Its going to be a bit tense tonight in Nam, especially once the drugs & drink take hold later. TEST Hopefully it'll be a bit too cold and wet for the scumbags. A job well done by the police.Another peice of shit off our streets He was armed but through it over the fence.They were'nt to know that,so don't take any chances. Kill or be killed....I know what I would do I've read all the above shit about capatilism and socialism societies....they are just excuses. Mark duggan chose to live the life he lived. He is no more.You live by the sword you die by the sword.Good riddance.One less scumbag wannabe gangster to pay for out of our taxes There is a reason the police do stop and searches on certain types of people in London I hope they don't change there policy in doing so and long may it continue The majority of us want to live in a safe world Mark Duggan chose the opposite to that,and his family know it Oh well tough shit.Hes dead and buried.Forget about the cunt,there will be plenty more 'innocent angel' gangster types to make another fuss of in the future
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Post by redstriper on Jan 8, 2014 20:38:55 GMT
There are plenty of more deserving causes for potential rioters, if they get upset over this it shows a real lack of judgement from the wannabe anarchists
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Post by boothenboy75 on Jan 8, 2014 21:29:35 GMT
Hopefully it'll be a bit too cold and wet for the scumbags. A job well done by the police.Another peice of shit off our streets He was armed but through it over the fence.They were'nt to know that,so don't take any chances. Kill or be killed....I know what I would do I've read all the above shit about capatilism and socialism societies....they are just excuses. Mark duggan chose to live the life he lived. He is no more.You live by the sword you die by the sword.Good riddance.One less scumbag wannabe gangster to pay for out of our taxes There is a reason the police do stop and searches on certain types of people in London I hope they don't change there policy in doing so and long may it continue The majority of us want to live in a safe world Mark Duggan chose the opposite to that,and his family know it Oh well tough shit.Hes dead and buried.Forget about the cunt,there will be plenty more 'innocent angel' gangster types to make another fuss of in the future Absolutely spot on.
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Post by paulinespens on Jan 8, 2014 22:49:53 GMT
A job well done by the police.Another peice of shit off our streets He was armed but through it over the fence.They were'nt to know that,so don't take any chances. Kill or be killed....I know what I would do I've read all the above shit about capatilism and socialism societies....they are just excuses. Mark duggan chose to live the life he lived. He is no more.You live by the sword you die by the sword.Good riddance.One less scumbag wannabe gangster to pay for out of our taxes There is a reason the police do stop and searches on certain types of people in London I hope they don't change there policy in doing so and long may it continue The majority of us want to live in a safe world Mark Duggan chose the opposite to that,and his family know it Oh well tough shit.Hes dead and buried.Forget about the cunt,there will be plenty more 'innocent angel' gangster types to make another fuss of in the future Absolutely spot on. how was he armed if the gun was found 7.1 meters fron where he was shot? He got out of the taxi with his hands raised with a mobile phone in one hand. He was shot twice,surely the first shot would have dropped him like a stone(anywhere on the body) then the police could have made the arrest. The copper new what he'd done hence him trying to bring him back to life. I'm not saying the lad was an angel but you cant just shoot to kill because you thought he was armed. Surely you would be told to put the weapon down first and lay down on the floor. If someone broke in my house and had a knife(i'm the only person to see it) and i had one which i stuck in his chest,i'd go down for murder,especially if his knife was found at the bottom of the garden. Something has been covered up i think and its all going to kick off again. You cant shoot someone because you"thought" he was armed.
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Post by craig67 on Jan 8, 2014 23:11:23 GMT
He should be thankful he wasn't a Brazilian electrician or a newspaper seller!
Oh hang on,didn't the police kill them as well and get away with it?
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