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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 28, 2011 23:22:27 GMT
I agree, watching on Tv as I couldn't get out of London early enough, we do look really ugly. Why play 2 better footballers at full back just to hoof it when Bego can do that. We need a fit Etherington and Fuller to give us a chance to keep the ball. We should be okay but it could be tight and we should not be in this position as we have good enough players everywhere except centre mid and full back, though I thought Wilson did okay. I am happy with a fast, aggressive, hoof ball but tonight was very poor
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Post by drwhom on Feb 28, 2011 23:22:35 GMT
I agree with most of the comments re: dross but I don't think anything has spooked Pulis. I think he has just decided to grind out the points using his bottom rung of the footballing ladder tactics. His sphincter has well and truly squeezed shut.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 28, 2011 23:22:51 GMT
It has to be said that there is absolutely no excuse for the stuff we have been playing since the turn of the year. Lucky to be as far up the table as we are. As far as the entertainment issue goes ......there simply isnt any. I spend most of the game wishing it will end just so long as we get any sort of result. What's changed your tune?
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Post by werrington on Feb 28, 2011 23:23:45 GMT
I;m worried....No creativity from midfield ( just 2 carthorses ) full backs who launch it forward at every opportunity to two 8ft 8 big target men who flick it on to absolutely nobody as we have no pace to get behind the defence as Fuller is sat on the bench and the other plying his trade in Germany! Attack is the best form of defence yet at 1-0 he brings off Carew and Pennant and it was crying out for Fuller to give their centre halves and midfield to think about but he leaves it until the 83rd minute!!.....negative beyond belief!!.....oh well see you all at West Ham for more of the same
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Post by Titan Uranus on Feb 28, 2011 23:30:37 GMT
I;m worried....No creativity from midfield ( just 2 carthorses ) full backs who launch it forward at every opportunity to two 8ft 8 big target men who flick it on to absolutely nobody as we have no pace to get behind the defence as Fuller is sat on the bench and the other plying his trade in Germany! Attack is the best form of defence yet at 1-0 he brings off Carew and Pennant and it was crying out for Fuller to give their centre halves and midfield to think about but he leaves it until the 83rd minute!!.....negative beyond belief!!.....oh well see you all at West Ham for more of the same Pulisball.
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Post by starkiller on Feb 28, 2011 23:30:41 GMT
That stuff witnessed tonight could win the Champions League and it would still be utter garbage.
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Post by RWChris on Mar 1, 2011 0:13:02 GMT
I am a massive believer in patience and allowing the club to evolve over time with TP and Peter at the helm. I've always said that as long as we see some kind of continuous progress, be it league position, style of football or integration of a young squad, I'd continue to support the pair of them irrespective of how slow the progress was.
But right now, completely out of the blue and barely a month after being fully being the gaffer, I'm starting to get a nagging doubt in my head. It's as if something has happened similar to the binary system season. Why has TP seemed to have got so defensive again?
There's a couple of horrible warning signs which we've seen before and I can't figure out the catalyst. The personnel in the squad haven't changed drastically, apart from Ethers we haven't suddenly lost half the squad to injury and I can't imagine he's suddenly had a big fall out with Coates so what the hell is going on???!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 1, 2011 1:38:58 GMT
Thing is though ...
When we were promoted, if TP had announced, that he would GUARANTEE us three mid table finishes and two FA Cup quarter finals in the following three seasons but we'd have to accept, that the football he'd dish up, would be pretty dreadful stuff to watch for quite a lot of the time, then almost everybody to a man, would have accepted that as a fair deal.
He has and is delivering.
The question will be, how much will season ticket sales drop off, if he offers exactly the same (you'd be mad to expect anything more) guarantee over the next three seasons?
I would suggest, that if they do drop off, it won't be in any significant numbers.
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Post by mark71 on Mar 1, 2011 1:44:24 GMT
I agree with what your saying Paul but we haven't always set up so negatively, we have actually played some good football under Pulis but for some reason he's reverted back to mk 1 Pulisball.
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Post by Roy Cropper on Mar 1, 2011 1:45:28 GMT
I want to know whats gone on at Stoke. This is exactly the same during the binary season, We start off the season OK and start playing some good stuff then all of a sudden Pulis goes ultra negative. The binary season he fell out with the Icelandic board, who has he fell out with now? It is very painful to watch, Awful awful football. I've stopped going to away matches because Pulis's tactics. So far I've been to 2 away games, the lowest amount I've attended since I started going away in the 86-87 season. Pulis must change or go, there are more and more people speaking out about the dross we are forced to watch. Attendances will suffer unless we start providing more entertainment. Best post of the night for me - Something HAS gone on behind the scenes My theory is that TP was told to seel Tuncay and then told he couldnt have the money to spend. THAT would explain a lot Tuncay wanted to go and he was not in Pulis' plans, that's why he left. Tonight was shocking, as we all know it can be when we don't win. My biggest issue is that he took Pennant off again and left it late to bring on Matty. Both are better defensively and offensively than either of those who replaced them tonight.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 1, 2011 1:59:06 GMT
I agree with what your saying Paul but we haven't always set up so negatively, we have actually played some good football under Pulis but for some reason he's reverted back to mk 1 Pulisball. How do you define 'some' fella? TP without any sort of remorse, will tell you, that he plays (in the main), defensive based, counter attacking, percentage based football, it's not pretty but it does work and it has served him well throughout his whole managerial career. I don't believe he will ever change and I also don't believe, that we will ever get relegated whilst he's in charge. This is as good as it gets and he's even (obviously) capable of putting the odd (very good) cup run onto the menu as well. But (as I said) it most certainly, won't be pretty.
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Post by mysteriojr on Mar 1, 2011 4:08:09 GMT
near the end the sky commentator said WBA should put on attacking players and not worry about being overrun in midfield as stoke bypass midfield anyway.......... unfortunately woy heard him
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Post by tuum on Mar 1, 2011 5:36:50 GMT
My biggest issue is that he took Pennant off again and left it late to bring on Matty. ============================= Pennant looked to have a slight muscle strain..he came off clutching the back of his thigh.
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Post by devonstokie on Mar 1, 2011 6:36:55 GMT
It's just not working, we have'nt evolved in 3 years of being in the prem, we're like a headless footballing dinosaur, make no mistake he's spent big on shite players, so none of this he's done it on a shoestring bollocks, time to go me thinks in the summer.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 1, 2011 7:44:43 GMT
Watching on tv I got pissed off with us giving the ball away by hoofing it up field. I did a little 10 minute observation and we gave away 83% of the balls we hoofed forward to KJ and JC. Also because we have no attacking or holding midfield we invite teams onto us. Baggies used this to their advantage big-style last night by bringing on 2 fresh players in a pacey winger and striker. That is why we were under the cosh for the last 15 minutes and almost lost it at he end. Is Bego Banksie in disguise€??
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 1, 2011 7:47:49 GMT
It is beginning to resemble the binary season. Not in scores, but in other ways. The football is gash; the suporters are up in arms; Pulis has fallen out with the local media; he doesn't see the supporters any more. When he returned after Boskamp was sacked, he admitted he had not tried to win games during the binary season and apologised for it. In that instance he blamed it on 'things going on behind the scenes'.
I'm as puzzled as everybody else why he's doing it now. I'm baffled why he's decided to play two midfielders as fullbacks. I'm bloody angry that he's abandoned his two creative forwards and gone for this one dimensional ploy that is truly earning us the name for the ugliest side in the league. It's fine if we were winning constantly and battering sides to submission, but as witnessed last night, a bottom three side made us look positively conference stuff.
I dunno what's gone wrong, but something has. Maybe this time, he's sick to the back teeth of supporters telling him what team to pick and is paying us back 'Pulis style', pretty much as he did to the Icelanders when they poked their noses in.
I just dunno, but something is wrong in his head.
OS.
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Post by mcf on Mar 1, 2011 7:59:17 GMT
Bit of a mess last night to say the least.
I think he thought that the team would batter them into submission but it just didn't work that way.
Carew and Jones are just not going to work together - you need a Fuller type player off one of them.
Without Ethers, there just isn't enough guile and pace in midfield.
Subs were all wrong.
That said, there goal was offside and we were technicaly robbed. I'm glad we didn't lose though.
Strange game.
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Post by stokiemarc on Mar 1, 2011 8:08:23 GMT
We've not played 'football' since Tunny left and Ric lost his place.
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Post by stokebill on Mar 1, 2011 8:10:22 GMT
"Stoke 1-1 West Brom
Premier League: Carlos Vela's late equaliser rescued a point for West Brom against 10-man Stoke"The Guardian reporter was clearly confused by the fact that we were so wide open in midfield, and so lacking in numbers when attacking.
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Post by Danstoke82 on Mar 1, 2011 8:16:48 GMT
We let WBA control the match throughout.
Poor show considering we were the home side and were lucky really to come away with anything.
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Post by apb1 on Mar 1, 2011 8:19:48 GMT
Sidibe and Fuller looked a million times more dangerous a combo than Carew and Jones for the long ball game Fuller - chasing into channels, winning throws/corners, terrorising defenders. Sidibe - for all his limitations, a tremendous athlete giving opponents a handful to deal with and pressuring them when they had the ball. You could get away with Jones and Carew if we had the two wide players, but the decision to grant Tuncay his dream move was dreadful, why couldn't he wait 4 months to do it? Ethers injured, Fuller sulking and dropped = Stoke in the shit Wilson has done ok at RB but Pugh is just wank at LB, and Walters wide left is now turning into Cresswell. I'd rather see Pugh there and that is saying a lot (I think Pugh is only any good in centre midfield.) Pennant is all right at keeping the ball but there is never anyone pushing up for him to pass to. We should be ok but all the narrow 1 goal defeats in the world (and there should have been another last night, they were carving us apart for the last half hour) will still take you down. I think back to earlier in the season when Tuncay Fuller and Ethers in particular played some great football. On recent form you'd have to expect West Ham to batter us home and away, fortunately we can expect a rebound from last night's nadir which might see us get something from both games...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 8:55:36 GMT
I agree with what your saying Paul but we haven't always set up so negatively, we have actually played some good football under Pulis but for some reason he's reverted back to mk 1 Pulisball. How do you define 'some' fella? TP without any sort of remorse, will tell you, that he plays (in the main), defensive based, counter attacking, percentage based football, it's not pretty but it does work and it has served him well throughout his whole managerial career. I don't believe he will ever change and I also don't believe, that we will ever get relegated whilst he's in charge. This is as good as it gets and he's even (obviously) capable of putting the odd (very good) cup run onto the menu as well. But (as I said) it most certainly, won't be pretty. But do you not agree that something HAS changed since before Christmas Paul? We are not playing exactly the same way. We have become a lot more negative and one dimensional than we were against, say, Man City or Liverpool or even Wigan in the first half of the season. We had the mindset that most games were winnable. We seem now to have lost confidence in that. The changes in personnel, up front especially, seem geared puely towards hoofing it. There is even less pace in the side as well. For me, it's not the direct play or the physicality (which I agree will never change under TP, and understandably so), but the decision to re-embrace crushing negativity that has got me worried.
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Mar 1, 2011 8:58:49 GMT
I'd go along with pretty much everything that has been said in this thread. We are literally going to scrap our way to the end of the season and all being well just have enough to earn another season at this level.
The team has gone backwards this season, fact. Remember that first half against Man City and then think of every game this year - a total reversal in Pulis' mindset and a revert back to type.
He keeps referring to this three season mission to stay in the Prem. I think he is just doing what he believes is necessary to complete that mission and then who knows what will happen.
Maybe a move upstairs......
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Post by potterglen on Mar 1, 2011 9:23:00 GMT
Does there come a point where Stoke fans stop being grateful just to be in Premiership, no matter by what means? Fair question.
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Post by potterglen on Mar 1, 2011 9:30:06 GMT
We've not played 'football' since Tunny left and Ric lost his place. Ric, Ric, Ric - he hasn't done anything for a season and a half, he's not the Messiah and is on the bench for that reason. In his defence he needs half an hour to settle and have a go.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 9:33:13 GMT
Maybe a move upstairs...... When Pulis finishes as manager I'd like to see him fuck off for good. What value he'll add from sitting 'upstairs' will be pretty limited to say the least unless he feels he can help the new manager in sourcing the finest 6ft+ black forwards and classless midfield terriers. I can't for the life of me understand what we pay Rudge for? Anyway, he'll probably go missing in the Amazon long before then whilst on a scouting mission after hearing that there's a freaky tribe that can all throw a football 50 yards at breakneck speed. The fact that they can't play football is irrelevant.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 1, 2011 9:38:47 GMT
What I don't understand is how this accurately-described "crushing negativity" marries itself with the pretty bold (albeit almost certainly doomed) Wilson-Pugh experiment, which goes against everything Pulis stands for?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 1, 2011 10:12:04 GMT
How do you define 'some' fella? TP without any sort of remorse, will tell you, that he plays (in the main), defensive based, counter attacking, percentage based football, it's not pretty but it does work and it has served him well throughout his whole managerial career. I don't believe he will ever change and I also don't believe, that we will ever get relegated whilst he's in charge. This is as good as it gets and he's even (obviously) capable of putting the odd (very good) cup run onto the menu as well. But (as I said) it most certainly, won't be pretty. But do you not agree that something HAS changed since before Christmas Paul? We are not playing exactly the same way. We have become a lot more negative and one dimensional than we were against, say, Man City or Liverpool or even Wigan in the first half of the season. We had the mindset that most games were winnable. We seem now to have lost confidence in that. The changes in personnel, up front especially, seem geared puely towards hoofing it. There is even less pace in the side as well. For me, it's not the direct play or the physicality (which I agree will never change under TP, and understandably so), but the decision to re-embrace crushing negativity that has got me worried. No Rob, I don't think there's been a fundamental change. I think possibly we're looking back on the games prior to Christmas, with slightly rose tinted glasses ... it wasn't that good. If TP hadn't fallen out with Fuller, if TP hadn't finally managed to get shot of Tuncay and if Matty and JP had both been available at the same time since the New Year, then I think things would have continued in pretty much the same vain as in the first half of the season. I think those three specific issues have had far more effect on what we're seeing now, rather than any see change in TP's game plan. As FM has said ... the very fact that he's been starting with Pugh and Wilson in the full back positions, immediately weakens any argument that the manager has/is deliberately attempting to play more negative football. As I said earlier in the thread, TP has always been and always will be a manager with extremely limited tactical ability, however it has served him well throughout his managerial career and I'll be surprised if it doesn't continue to do so.
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Post by Not_Nick_H on Mar 1, 2011 10:13:48 GMT
Just for the sake of discussion nothing more - Let's say PC is getting a bit "concerned" with 'progress' (if not now, but by season's end). He is a man of honour and clearly has a special regard for TP - so how would he solve the issue of not wanting to actually "sack" him? I would say a "move upstairs", but John Rudge has the Director of Football role, so what options does that leave? In answer to the original post - the day we start worrying about the f*cking press is the day to take a good look at ourselves. What I really found worrying was the number of folks last night actually fretting about what the media say about us. I didn't create this without meaning it:
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Mar 1, 2011 10:28:13 GMT
Lets be fair about last night. The PLAYERS (Begovic aside) were awful. They were bad in nearly every respect. I don't think any manager should have to shoulder the blame when a team plays so badly (I think Everton did a similar thing a few weeks ago at Bolton(?))
Not long ago we would go mental on here everytime Ryan was left out of an England squad and now look at him? He can't even do the simple things.
Last night we had professional footballers who couldn't:
- pass the ball - control the ball - anticipate where the ball was going - clear the ball effectively - tackle - and in some cases even make an effort
Pennant went off injured and Matty isn't fully fit. There is obviously something amiss with the Fuller situation.
Last night was VERY, VERY POOR and the players need to put their hands up and accept the blame.
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