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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 19:13:40 GMT
Should have been a red and i still dont know how it wasnt
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Post by Lesalanos on Jan 15, 2011 19:13:57 GMT
How many have we had sent off? We moan about refs but we've done ok since tp's rant? Could have easily not given the first goal
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 15, 2011 19:21:37 GMT
I know it's not the rule as it stands at the moment but I think if having a penalty is just as, or more, advantageous to the attacking team as the situation would have been if no foul had been committed, then a defender shouldn't be sent off.
i.e. what's better to us, having the penalty or having Ethers running at goal with a keeper charging out to narrow the angle? Definitely the penalty- so is it natural-justice that Bolton lose a man as well? I'd say no.
However, if Ethers has gone round the keeper, has an open goal, and a defender hauls him down, then having a penalty alone wouldn't be a more advantageous situation than just having to roll the ball into an empty net...so a red-card should be shown as well.
Does that make sense?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 15, 2011 19:21:50 GMT
disagree thought ref did well Clearly you weren't at the same game as the rest of us. He was shockingly poor.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 15, 2011 19:22:42 GMT
I know it's not the rule as it stands at the moment but I think if having a penalty is just as, or more, advantageous to the attacking team as the situation would have been if no foul had been committed, then a defender shouldn't be sent off. i.e. what's better to us, having the penalty or having Ethers running at goal with a keeper charging out to narrow the angle? Definitely the penalty- so is it natural-justice that Bolton lose a man as well? I'd say no. However, if Ethers has gone round the keeper, has an open goal, and a defender hauls him down, then having a penalty alone wouldn't be a more advantageous situation than just having to roll the ball into an empty net...so a red-card should be shown as well. Does that make sense? Nope......
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Post by heavysoul on Jan 15, 2011 19:23:59 GMT
Think Bolton got away with alot today but the penalty should have been a red !!
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 15, 2011 19:24:55 GMT
I know it's not the rule as it stands at the moment but I think if having a penalty is just as, or more, advantageous to the attacking team as the situation would have been if no foul had been committed, then a defender shouldn't be sent off. i.e. what's better to us, having the penalty or having Ethers running at goal with a keeper charging out to narrow the angle? Definitely the penalty- so is it natural-justice that Bolton lose a man as well? I'd say no. However, if Ethers has gone round the keeper, has an open goal, and a defender hauls him down, then having a penalty alone wouldn't be a more advantageous situation than just having to roll the ball into an empty net...so a red-card should be shown as well. Does that make sense? Nope...... Well it does in my head ;D
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Post by sihanouk on Jan 15, 2011 19:25:43 GMT
:-( My first impression was that Knight played the ball first although didn't have a great view- can see I'm the only one who thinks that but haven't seen a replay and by the above am sure will be proved wrong. To be fair he didn't complain. There was a covering defender but doubt he would have got there to be fair so if the ref decided it was a pen then a red was the only punishment.
Ricketts did nothing wrong. If that was Wilko am sure those moaning would be praising him if he did similar.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 15, 2011 19:29:16 GMT
:-( My first impression was that Knight played the ball first although didn't have a great view- can see I'm the only one who thinks that but haven't seen a replay and by the above am sure will be proved wrong. To be fair he didn't complain. There was a covering defender but doubt he would have got there to be fair so if the ref decided it was a pen then a red was the only punishment. Ricketts did nothing wrong. If that was Wilko am sure those moaning would be praising him if he did similar. I thought that at the time as well...I'd have still been screaming blue-murder if the ref hadn't awarded it though. ;D The pace of the game and the angle you see things at can be very deceptive, so it'll be interesting to see it again on MOTD.
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Post by imallstokedup on Jan 15, 2011 19:42:17 GMT
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Post by BoxxyTheLost on Jan 15, 2011 19:48:31 GMT
A player can score from the halfway line so that's a goalscoring opportunity? right? I still think Cahill was in a position to cover and I still think it was a yellow card.
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Post by Lesalanos on Jan 15, 2011 19:48:52 GMT
Any thoughts on why we, despite our chants of "if he played for Stoke you'd send him off" have only had one sent off?
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Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Jan 15, 2011 19:50:02 GMT
:-( My first impression was that Knight played the ball first although didn't have a great view- can see I'm the only one who thinks that but haven't seen a replay and by the above am sure will be proved wrong. To be fair he didn't complain. There was a covering defender but doubt he would have got there to be fair so if the ref decided it was a pen then a red was the only punishment. Ricketts did nothing wrong. If that was Wilko am sure those moaning would be praising him if he did similar. I thought that at the time as well...I'd have still been screaming blue-murder if the ref hadn't awarded it though. ;D The pace of the game and the angle you see things at can be very deceptive, so it'll be interesting to see it again on MOTD. No doubt about the penalty , I have seen the video, Knight takes Matty's leg from behind and he was nowhere near the ball. Also the guy who says the ref may not have given the first goal , I take it he means there was a doubt whether the ball was over the line , I can assure him the ball was well over.
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Post by ratters on Jan 15, 2011 19:50:58 GMT
should have been a red simple as, as for the ricketts tackle whether he won the ball or not (i cant comment as couldnt tell), he went in very hard and followed through with his other leg and looked unnecessary as the ball was going out of play if not already out and would have been a bolton throw in, well thats how it looked from my view
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Post by stokemark on Jan 15, 2011 20:35:45 GMT
Thought the ref was poor although fortunately gave the goal (which I suppose is something)
I thought Bolton were dirty and shit - so much for their 'evolution'
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Post by trebor63 on Jan 15, 2011 20:39:46 GMT
How many have we had sent off? We moan about refs but we've done ok since tp's rant? Could have easily not given the first goal Eh!!! We have to be grateful they spot it when we score!? We scored it clearly crossed the line if he hadn't given the goal he should never ref again!
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Post by imallstokedup on Jan 15, 2011 20:47:57 GMT
A player can score from the halfway line so that's a goalscoring opportunity? right? I still think Cahill was in a position to cover and I still think it was a yellow card. Players are sometimes sent off a long way from goal, Abdy last year against Man City being a case in point. Etherington was lining up to shoot dispite where Cahill was, it was a red card offence.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 15, 2011 20:49:39 GMT
If you go by the book it probably was a red card offense, but I think the decision the ref made should be the right one in these cases!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 15, 2011 20:53:24 GMT
The ref was awful today, missed a lot of cynical fouls from Bolton. The penalty was a red card offence without doubt.
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Post by BoxxyTheLost on Jan 15, 2011 20:54:34 GMT
A player can score from the halfway line so that's a goalscoring opportunity? right? I still think Cahill was in a position to cover and I still think it was a yellow card. Players are sometimes sent off a long way from goal, Abdy last year against Man City being a case in point. Etherington was lining up to shoot dispite where Cahill was, it was a red card offence. Yes but when Abdy brought him down he was last man by some distance. So he was sent off because he was last man rather than a goalscoring opportunity.
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Post by AlliG on Jan 15, 2011 21:05:45 GMT
Perhaps he has seen Stoke players shoot before? I was quite happy with the penalty and just a yellow card, though I did start to have second thoughts once the Bolton players started cheating while Matty was waiting to take the kick.
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 15, 2011 22:36:56 GMT
I thought the clearest red card was the Davies elbow on Higgy, other than that I thought he was one of the better refs down here (I know that doesn't say much!!). he also elbowed huth ,twat was lucky to stay in the game
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Post by imallstokedup on Jan 16, 2011 0:32:07 GMT
Players are sometimes sent off a long way from goal, Abdy last year against Man City being a case in point. Etherington was lining up to shoot dispite where Cahill was, it was a red card offence. Yes but when Abdy brought him down he was last man by some distance. So he was sent off because he was last man rather than a goalscoring opportunity. The rules have nothing to do with last man.
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Post by One-Two on Jan 16, 2011 0:36:18 GMT
I think a booking was fair enough. If that was a Stoke player, I'd have been disappointed if he'd seen red.
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Post by BoxxyTheLost on Jan 16, 2011 0:46:24 GMT
I think a booking was fair enough. If that was a Stoke player, I'd have been disappointed if he'd seen red. But it wasn't. It was against us so it's clearly a conspiracy.
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Post by sihanouk on Jan 16, 2011 1:23:29 GMT
Was a clear penalty- I thought Knight touched the ball but was Matty's leg that played it after he'd been tripped. As for a red I'm not sure as a player coming across but glad it wasn't as we would have beaten 10 men a la Liverpool according to the rags who obviously don't watch the games they write about.
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Post by vancouverstokie on Jan 16, 2011 6:11:59 GMT
It coulde have been worse early in the season we'd have had no goal and no penalty ! I think it was the right out come as Bolton had a defender raceing back in the center of goal and I think the ref cosidered him as the last man ?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 16, 2011 6:17:19 GMT
Like I say, the rule is "preventing a goalscoring opportunity" and Matty was 6 yards out and about to shoot. What would you call it? Fair enough. Although you could argue that he was coming in at a tight angle on his "wrong" wing, with a player covering (if there was). Goalscoring opportunity is a slightly subjective statement, a goal can be scored from anywhere in the half with enough luck so surely any foul should be a red card? On his wrong wing for crossing but his "right" wing for shooting. To be honest, in most cases I think a red card is harsh when a penalty is awarded. I'd favour a yellow rather than a red - so, on that basis, I think the ref probably got the decision right.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 16, 2011 9:44:59 GMT
Having watched the replay, absolutely no doubt about it- penalty.
There was a nick on the ball, but it was 1% ball, 99% the man.
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Post by truckerged on Jan 16, 2011 11:22:51 GMT
The tackle on Etherington by Ricketts was a good one, he clearly won the ball, watch it tonight. so as long as you get a touch on the ball its ok to put opposing player into row z is it? utter bollocks it was a cheap shot that deserved at leaat a booking and in my eyes a straight red!! its becoming increasingly obvious that matty is being targeted by opposing teams, even the shit!! its about time he was given better protection from the refs or do we have to have the lord patrolling the wing and just staring at the likes of neville ricketts etc and just giving them the stare that says go on i dare you ;D ;D
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