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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 3, 2011 10:24:36 GMT
If you are so passionate about football I am sure you take the opportunity to watch all televised games.
How many truly good games have you seen this season, or last for that matter?
Football in general, particularly in England, is getting more and more mediocre each season.
Stoke are shit at times, average at times and on occasion are exceptionally good. Apart from Spurs, who I really enjoy watching at the moment, I wouldn't choose to watch any other team on the TV unless the result had some immediate impact on our own season.
Even Spurs set up similarly to us, especially when Crouch plays. They are direct, get the ball forward quickly and effectively and play fast incisive football in the final 3rd of the pitch.
They have two good full backs, two good widemen and a selection of very good midfielders, the best of which, Modric, is absolutely magnificent.
I am not saying that we are even close to Spurs, but we all want decent full-backs and decent midfield players and if we got them, we could be a poor mans Spurs in my opinion, which would be no bad thing.
I find it hard to believe that anyone can be truly unhappy with what they are watching at Stoke right now unless they are either stuck in the past (by past I mean the 70's) or something of a "johnny come lately". We are currently better than we have been for a whole generation and whilst not always pretty, it is absolutely fantastic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2011 10:29:02 GMT
If you are so passionate about football I am sure you take the opportunity to watch all televised games. How many truly good games have you seen this season, or last for that matter? Football in general, particularly in England, is getting more and more mediocre each season. Stoke are shit at times, average at times and on occasion are exceptionally good. Apart from Spurs, who I really enjoy watching at the moment, I wouldn't choose to watch any other team on the TV unless the result had some immediate impact on our own season. Even Spurs set up similarly to us, especially when Crouch plays. They are direct, get the ball forward quickly and effectively and play fast incisive football in the final 3rd of the pitch. They have two good full backs, two good widemen and a selection of very good midfielders, the best of which, Modric, is absolutely magnificent. I am not saying that we are even close to Spurs, but we all want decent full-backs and decent midfield players and if we got them, we could be a poor mans Spurs in my opinion, which would be no bad thing. I find it hard to believe that anyone can be truly unhappy with what they are watching at Stoke right now unless they are either stuck in the past (by past I mean the 70's) or something of a "johnny come lately". We are currently better than we have been for a whole generation and whilst not always pretty, it is absolutely fantastic. That's a really good perspective Dave. (Thumbs Up emoticon)
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Post by roostersgonnagetya on Jan 3, 2011 10:36:34 GMT
I can readily accept the one dimensional and rigid approach from us in our first season, the second to an extent for stability but I would like proof that we plan to change and if the last few games are anything to go by, we are not. Take a look at the team sheet, a solid defence, 2 flying wingers, a flair player in fuller who imo would score more goals if we played like a blackpool, KJ, EG, Tuncay, Wilson...........
We have some real good players on paper there is no reason whatsoever that if TP looked at the CM positions as a top priority we couldn't play some real good effective football with these players, bar the midfield we have a squad full of footballers.
Add a good CM to our squad and I have to say it we have better tools than Blackpool to play like Blackpool and be successful doing it.
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Post by jstephenson6 on Jan 3, 2011 10:36:36 GMT
I watch probably about 4 games a week, give or take depending on what's on. I can see where you're coming from with Spurs but they keep the ball on the floor a hell of a lot more than us. I too have been watching Spurs all season. I can totally see where you're coming from, if I was asked 10 years ago would be you be ecstatic if Stoke were in the Prem in 10 years, but not playing the most pretty football, I would take it absolutely any day, and I can see how people may think that I'm crazy or whatever, but the fact is, for one reason or another, it just doesn't entertain me, and I find it boring to watch, just as some people might find Barcelona boring to watch. It won't stop me supporting Stoke, but just curbs my excitement and reaction to the games.
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lsstokie
Lads'n'Dads
aaaaaaaaaaah memories
Posts: 64
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Post by lsstokie on Jan 3, 2011 10:43:12 GMT
My frustration with our "style" or lack of, is related to our future ability to attract the right talent.
Yes we are competative right now, yes I firmly believe we will survive in the premier league again, which should not be underestimated. However..........
I also believe that we are at a critical point in the clubs long history. We have a rich benefactor and are financially stable - no debt - unlike most. We have a packed ground and a great atmosphere - second to none, we are creating fantastic acadamey and training facilities - up there with the best in the country. We should therefore be able to compete with anyone for the next generation of talent. But..........
We have a very unappealing style, our tactics are negagtive and do NOT promote the use or development of technical skill. So if you were a young gun looking for a club would you choose us? because my concern about the fact that no young gun will, is that sooner or later the massive financial windfall from Uncle Peter will end and we will no longer be able to do what we do now and purchase the finished (if limited in talent) article from such a small pool of tried and tested English based players. Before by the way anyone says the windfall will continue because of the SKY deal, have a look at how much others spend in relation to us they have sky money too.
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Post by stokelad84 on Jan 3, 2011 10:51:24 GMT
How long did it take for Arsene Wenger to turn Arsenal form a physical direct team to the very good footballing side we know them as today? Around 5-6 years?
That was with players like Henry and Bergkamp remember. Plus they were already at the top of the league, so had zero chance of struggling.
So if it took them so long, how do people expect TP to do it in half the time?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 3, 2011 10:58:04 GMT
My frustration with our "style" or lack of, is related to our future ability to attract the right talent. . I think our ability to attract talent improves with each year we spend in the Prem. Could we have attracted Pennant, Etherington or Jones in our first summer after promotion? No. Midway through our first season we attracted Etherington and at the start of our third season we attracted Jones - and Pennant on loan. This January Pennant almost pleaded for his loan to be made permanent. No doubt, later this month or in the summer, we will attract a few more players who we could only have dreamed of a year or so back. The big talking point is are we attracting higher quality players quickly enough. My gut feeling is, yes we are. Unless you can afford to go out and buy the very best then evolution, not revolution, is the way to do it - and in my opinion, we are evolving nicely.
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lsstokie
Lads'n'Dads
aaaaaaaaaaah memories
Posts: 64
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Post by lsstokie on Jan 3, 2011 11:01:08 GMT
I agree it is a long term strategy, the problem TP has is that he took the club in the opposite direction. So instead of starting from a postion whereby the change would need a subtle modification of tactics it now needs a major transformation.
Something he did not need to do by the way, beacuse financial he was beter off than most if not all in the championship at the time and sits at least midway in that respect in the PL.
This is the point that makes me smile (and I mean smile by the way as we are all stokies and I have no intention of falling out with anyone, this is just a discussion) about this constant debate, some folks talk as if he had no choice and someone put a gun TP's head and said play crap football or else...
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Post by stokierabbit on Jan 3, 2011 11:04:05 GMT
To be honest I couldnt give a rats arse how we play as long as we get the results. These folk that are obsessed with the aesthetics of our play need to get a grip, this isnt fashion its football.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 3, 2011 11:08:35 GMT
I agree it is a long term strategy, the problem TP has is that he took the club in the opposite direction. So instead of starting from a postion whereby the change would need a subtle modification of tactics it now needs a major transformation. Something he did not need to do by the way, beacuse financial he was beter off than most if not all in the championship at the time and sits at least midway in that respect in the PL. This is the point that makes me smile (and I mean smile by the way as we are all stokies and I have no intention of falling out with anyone, this is just a discussion) about this constant debate, some folks talk as if he had no choice and someone put a gun TP's head and said play crap football or else... You are entitled to your opinion but I reckon it is nonsense to say that TP took is in the wrong direction. Mowbray found out to his (and West Brom's) cost that setting out to play expansive football when you can't afford the best players to implement it is a risky strategy. You could argue that Blackpool are making a better fist of it than West Brom and so they are - but that doesn't mean that the strategy is not risky. Stoke look like achieving a 4th successive season in the Prem and they look like having a much better squad (capable of playing better football) as each year passes - that will do me.
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lsstokie
Lads'n'Dads
aaaaaaaaaaah memories
Posts: 64
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Post by lsstokie on Jan 3, 2011 11:11:16 GMT
......And there we disagree my fellow Stokie, I care because our club produced the greatest English talent of all time and I would like it to continue to be known for these things, not for hoofball.
Take your Stoke tinted glasses off for a second, if Stoke are not playing, and you have a choice between Blackburn v Wolves and Barcelona v Arsenal, who do you want to watch, because the facts are the majority in the world would choose the later and for a very good reason. Nowhere other than this (or perhaps the Wolves or Blackburn message board) would this even get debated.
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Post by stokelad84 on Jan 3, 2011 11:12:35 GMT
I agree it is a long term strategy, the problem TP has is that he took the club in the opposite direction. So instead of starting from a postion whereby the change would need a subtle modification of tactics it now needs a major transformation. Something he did not need to do by the way, beacuse financial he was beter off than most if not all in the championship at the time and sits at least midway in that respect in the PL.This is the point that makes me smile (and I mean smile by the way as we are all stokies and I have no intention of falling out with anyone, this is just a discussion) about this constant debate, some folks talk as if he had no choice and someone put a gun TP's head and said play crap football or else... Thats complete rubbish. We were competing against teams who had parachute payments (which gave them a £12million advantage over the other Championship teams) Our wage budget was almost half of West Broms who finished above us in the league.
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lsstokie
Lads'n'Dads
aaaaaaaaaaah memories
Posts: 64
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Post by lsstokie on Jan 3, 2011 11:12:53 GMT
Nice debating with you fellas, got to go now, enjoy your day - up the Potters!
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Post by barmystokie1 on Jan 3, 2011 11:13:55 GMT
We all want to see better football and in previous months we have shown glimpses that we are involving. I dont think tippy tappy is the right way for us, we just need somebody in the middle of the park that everybody on the park can pass to (Full backs especially) to start the attacks and very quickly Im pretty sure our football will look a lot better as we have some technically gifted players who can beat their man.
However more important than anything for me is the result. If Stoke played really well and we lost thats not really any comfort to me on a Saturday to be honest. I want to win, as thats why a league was invented in the 1st place to show where you compare to others!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 3, 2011 11:15:44 GMT
If you are so passionate about football I am sure you take the opportunity to watch all televised games. How many truly good games have you seen this season, or last for that matter? Football in general, particularly in England, is getting more and more mediocre each season. Stoke are shit at times, average at times and on occasion are exceptionally good. Apart from Spurs, who I really enjoy watching at the moment, I wouldn't choose to watch any other team on the TV unless the result had some immediate impact on our own season. Even Spurs set up similarly to us, especially when Crouch plays. They are direct, get the ball forward quickly and effectively and play fast incisive football in the final 3rd of the pitch. They have two good full backs, two good widemen and a selection of very good midfielders, the best of which, Modric, is absolutely magnificent. I am not saying that we are even close to Spurs, but we all want decent full-backs and decent midfield players and if we got them, we could be a poor mans Spurs in my opinion, which would be no bad thing. I find it hard to believe that anyone can be truly unhappy with what they are watching at Stoke right now unless they are either stuck in the past (by past I mean the 70's) or something of a "johnny come lately". We are currently better than we have been for a whole generation and whilst not always pretty, it is absolutely fantastic. Great post dave.
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Post by stokemark on Jan 3, 2011 11:33:43 GMT
Im sorry 'JStephenson6 ????) but what are you on about ? Stoke's first goal v Everton - a pacy winger beating a fullback and crossing to a big centre forward to head in was fabulous
You are reading too many newspapers who are brown nosing Arse and the likes who have dedided that there is only one way to play football and that is their way - Utter bollocks
Stanley Matthews would be proud of us, proud of Ethers, Pennant, Ric etc and yet because some nouveaux 'fans' say its wrong we should, for some reasons, be ashamed ? We need to build and evolve slowly, patiently with our resources (comparisons with Baqrcelona - FFS !) - ]
We have so many things to be pleased and proud about - Financial stability, managerial stability, we are no longer a selling club (we used to sell every half decent player to Everton - now we are beating them)
Enjoy what we have, watch it grow and revel in it !
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Post by Gods on Jan 3, 2011 11:58:16 GMT
Im sorry 'JStephenson6 ????) but what are you on about ? Stoke's first goal v Everton - a pacy winger beating a fullback and crossing to a big centre forward to head in was fabulous You are reading too many newspapers who are brown nosing Arse and the likes who have dedided that there is only one way to play football and that is their way - Utter bollocks Stanley Matthews would be proud of us, proud of Ethers, Pennant, Ric etc and yet because some nouveaux 'fans' say its wrong we should, for some reasons, be ashamed ? We need to build and evolve slowly, patiently with our resources (comparisons with Baqrcelona - FFS !) - ] We have so many things to be pleased and proud about - Financial stability, managerial stability, we are no longer a selling club (we used to sell every half decent player to Everton - now we are beating them) Enjoy what we have, watch it grow and revel in it ! Agree about our first goal against Everton. It was an absolute gem. Matty skins a Neville brother for the 2nd time this season and delivers a peach of a cross and a towering leap from from Kenwyne sees him meet the ball with a clattering header in to the corner of the net past the hapless dive of the keeper. A goal to win any game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2011 12:06:58 GMT
I haven't been on here in a while but thought I would come on here tonight and have a look around. I can't help but say what I think and I'm pretty sure I'll get slaughtered but well, I feel I need to say it. What's this obsession with calling very technical, skillfull football tippy tappy shit, you make yourselves just as worse than the people who you get pissed off for calling Stoke a one dimensional long ball team, which essentially is true. I don't know if any of you watched el clasico this season (Barcelona Vs Real Madrid) but in my opinion it was the best game of football I've ever seen in my life, the technique, skill and movement of Barcelona is second to none, and they aren't tippy tappy, they will get physical if they need to be but they are so quick of thought and skillfull that they make the game look effortless and just incredible. I just think that we are all getting so obsessed and defensive of our style of play, which is not the way I would play or choose to play/watch however I can see that it works and why change a working formula? There seems to be some sort of mentality here that everyone is against Stoke everyone hates Stoke etc etc etc. The only reason people might have a problem with Stoke is because of the way we play. I've seen pretty much every game streamed or later on match choice this season, and it's not particularly pretty, we might create and score more goals and win games against teams, but it's not particularly interesting/exciting to me, and seeing my team have regularly 40% possession and pass completion being around 50% is pretty shit to me, seems like a sunday league stat. Whilst I know everyone hates stats, Stoke have made 600 successful passes less than the nearest team, Blackburn this season, 2000 less than the likes of West Brom, Newcastle, Bolton etc. I want to see Stoke in possession of the football, passing it around, we are good enough too, if Blackpool can do it then we certainly can because our team is a lot better than theirs. And it's starting to affect me, and I am an obsessive Stoke fan, I have everything Stoke, I love everything football I am absolutely obsessed with the sport. I have already played 10 seasons on the new football manager with us, trying to implement a beautiful passing game into our team, 2 seasons on FIFA trying to play passing football. As much as this is sad, I try at any given moment to try and get Stoke to play in the way that I feel football should be played. No I don't want Stoke to play like Barcelona (well I do) but I know it's not realistic and achievable at the moment, but something that requires a bit more than hitting it 40 yards in the air hoping for a flick on would be a start. The way in which Stoke play, just seems to make me less and less excited about Stoke. Somehow I find it hard to muster a cheer when I see another long ball get knocked down and put in the net, I'd like to see a bit more flair, creativity involved, something I rarely see in our games. To me, there is a lot more to Stoke and football than us being in the Premiership doing well. I look back at it now, and I was so much happier under the Thordason, Boskamp etc days, now I'm not saying they were good managers, but at least I felt excited about Stoke City. Pulis respectively has done a fantastic job raising Stoke to the profile they are now, but it fills me with no excitement whatsoever. I'm not having a go at anyone here through this post, I would fucking love to be in the position of one of you who is absolutely loving it right now, because I would absolutely love to be excited about Stoke, but unfortunately I'm not and I think this Pulis style of football has made a lot of us convince ourself that it's not that bad because our beloved Stoke team is playing in this style, as our love for the club is so strong that we hate to criticise it, especially when we are doing well. Similarly, I absolutely guarantee that say we were playing this 'tippy tappy' football and another team were playing this pecentage, long ball football, people would be cursing them saying how boring they are, the lack of technique etc etc. Personally, I'm no fan of it, and possibly (I don't mind admitting it) biased against it as I have learnt to play and watch football and have certain ideas about what I like and what I think is good. I will always love Stoke City and still probably watch every game but the way we play is really really affecting my excitement and passion for us. It depends on what people care about most I guess, the actual winning of the game, or the excitement of a game. For me it's the excitement, and Pulis and this Stoke team have taken all of the excitement out of the game for me, I can almost predict everything we do. I want to be entertained and amazed by my Stoke City not see them bulldoze a team. *prepares himself for stampeed* You lost me around the point of "happier under the Thordarson and Boskamp days". Thordarson was a colossal hoof merchant and twice as negative as Pulis ever was with even less justification for it. Boskamp wanted us to play football but was fairly tactically inept and for every exciting win at Luton or Ipswich there was a Godawful home bumming or game where we wouldn't string three passes together and not have a shot until the 81st minute.
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Post by Gods on Jan 3, 2011 12:14:57 GMT
I haven't been on here in a while but thought I would come on here tonight and have a look around. I can't help but say what I think and I'm pretty sure I'll get slaughtered but well, I feel I need to say it. What's this obsession with calling very technical, skillfull football tippy tappy shit, you make yourselves just as worse than the people who you get pissed off for calling Stoke a one dimensional long ball team, which essentially is true. I don't know if any of you watched el clasico this season (Barcelona Vs Real Madrid) but in my opinion it was the best game of football I've ever seen in my life, the technique, skill and movement of Barcelona is second to none, and they aren't tippy tappy, they will get physical if they need to be but they are so quick of thought and skillfull that they make the game look effortless and just incredible. I just think that we are all getting so obsessed and defensive of our style of play, which is not the way I would play or choose to play/watch however I can see that it works and why change a working formula? There seems to be some sort of mentality here that everyone is against Stoke everyone hates Stoke etc etc etc. The only reason people might have a problem with Stoke is because of the way we play. I've seen pretty much every game streamed or later on match choice this season, and it's not particularly pretty, we might create and score more goals and win games against teams, but it's not particularly interesting/exciting to me, and seeing my team have regularly 40% possession and pass completion being around 50% is pretty shit to me, seems like a sunday league stat. Whilst I know everyone hates stats, Stoke have made 600 successful passes less than the nearest team, Blackburn this season, 2000 less than the likes of West Brom, Newcastle, Bolton etc. I want to see Stoke in possession of the football, passing it around, we are good enough too, if Blackpool can do it then we certainly can because our team is a lot better than theirs. And it's starting to affect me, and I am an obsessive Stoke fan, I have everything Stoke, I love everything football I am absolutely obsessed with the sport. I have already played 10 seasons on the new football manager with us, trying to implement a beautiful passing game into our team, 2 seasons on FIFA trying to play passing football. As much as this is sad, I try at any given moment to try and get Stoke to play in the way that I feel football should be played. No I don't want Stoke to play like Barcelona (well I do) but I know it's not realistic and achievable at the moment, but something that requires a bit more than hitting it 40 yards in the air hoping for a flick on would be a start. The way in which Stoke play, just seems to make me less and less excited about Stoke. Somehow I find it hard to muster a cheer when I see another long ball get knocked down and put in the net, I'd like to see a bit more flair, creativity involved, something I rarely see in our games. To me, there is a lot more to Stoke and football than us being in the Premiership doing well. I look back at it now, and I was so much happier under the Thordason, Boskamp etc days, now I'm not saying they were good managers, but at least I felt excited about Stoke City. Pulis respectively has done a fantastic job raising Stoke to the profile they are now, but it fills me with no excitement whatsoever. I'm not having a go at anyone here through this post, I would fucking love to be in the position of one of you who is absolutely loving it right now, because I would absolutely love to be excited about Stoke, but unfortunately I'm not and I think this Pulis style of football has made a lot of us convince ourself that it's not that bad because our beloved Stoke team is playing in this style, as our love for the club is so strong that we hate to criticise it, especially when we are doing well. Similarly, I absolutely guarantee that say we were playing this 'tippy tappy' football and another team were playing this pecentage, long ball football, people would be cursing them saying how boring they are, the lack of technique etc etc. Personally, I'm no fan of it, and possibly (I don't mind admitting it) biased against it as I have learnt to play and watch football and have certain ideas about what I like and what I think is good. I will always love Stoke City and still probably watch every game but the way we play is really really affecting my excitement and passion for us. It depends on what people care about most I guess, the actual winning of the game, or the excitement of a game. For me it's the excitement, and Pulis and this Stoke team have taken all of the excitement out of the game for me, I can almost predict everything we do. I want to be entertained and amazed by my Stoke City not see them bulldoze a team. *prepares himself for stampeed* You lost me around the point of "happier under the Thordarson and Boskamp days". Thordarson was a colossal hoof merchant and twice as negative as Pulis ever was with even less justification for it. Boskamp wanted us to play football but was fairly tactically inept and for every exciting win at Luton or Ipswich there was a Godawful home bumming or game where we wouldn't string three passes together and not have a shot until the 81st minute. We averaged 11,000 in Thordason's first season and gates went down as low as 7000 for Millwall so Mr Stephenson there would have been plenty of room for you to stretch out and enjoy his own special brand of free flowing football
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2011 12:17:25 GMT
I think - having read this - we should now pass the ball back and two across the back four for ten minutes every game just to get the statistics back in line with other teams
says it all doesn't it
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Post by mayf on Jan 3, 2011 12:22:54 GMT
Our 1st goal was indeed well worked and of high quality......probably the only piece of decent football in the whole 90 minutes !
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Post by leftsideboothen on Jan 3, 2011 13:35:34 GMT
Keep your fantasy football Stoke 2-0 Everton will do me everytime.
Steve
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Post by therethere on Jan 3, 2011 13:42:40 GMT
Our 1st goal was indeed well worked and of high quality......probably the only piece of decent football in the whole 90 minutes ! ??? I must still have been pissed ??? Thought it was a good game mesen
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Post by therethere on Jan 3, 2011 13:43:39 GMT
To be honest I couldnt give a rats arse how we play as long as we get the results. These folk that are obsessed with the aesthetics of our play need to get a grip, this isnt fashion its football. AGREED
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Post by stokeyhunter on Jan 3, 2011 13:48:16 GMT
, but the fact is, for one reason or another, it just doesn't entertain me, and I find it boring to watch, . if you find it boring go play marbles or play on cod or something your not forced to watch your team play.
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Post by bogus on Jan 3, 2011 13:53:33 GMT
Whoever it was that coined phrases such as "They play football the right way" & "How the game should be played" etc, needs hanging, drawing and quartering, imo.
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Post by leftsideboothen on Jan 3, 2011 14:06:13 GMT
I am an obsessive Stoke fan, I have everything Stoke
Apart from a season ticket then.
Steve
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Post by potters 22 on Jan 3, 2011 14:18:07 GMT
Does'nt sound like you attend any matches mr stephenson? You prefered it when thordarsson and boskamp were in charge? Now you are either a wind up merchant or a vale fan? Which is it because if you want the boskamp days back then my friend you are belonging in an asylum.
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Post by PickSCFC on Jan 3, 2011 14:24:18 GMT
I stopped reading when he said that he thought the barca v real game was the best hes ever seen, how the fuck can a 5-0 drubbing be the best game you have ever seen ??? anybody would think we played shit hot football before pulis came when in reality we were wank for years pick you are by far the most sad person on here, seriously why do you come on here!! ??? your posts are either arguementative or just trying to annoy fellow fans, you need get a life mate and quick!! Bollocks, thats just my opinion, if you dont like it then dont fucking read my posts. Haha im sad? I aint the one living in Bucknall
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Post by PickSCFC on Jan 3, 2011 14:26:06 GMT
That barca game was immense, but you wouldn't know pick because you didn't watch it The 'tippy tappy' footy debate could run and run but i doubt we'll ever have it at Stoke so i'll take a couple of wins like everton and liverpool played our own way Not for me it wouldnt have been, I wouldnt have enjoyed it because it was too one sided. I dont really care about games that dont concern Stoke though
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