worth a new thread for a good argument

[mozzer]

I posted this in another thread but it winds lots of people up so I will post it again here...


I am sick of saying it but I will say it again,

The trouble at away matches when this card was introduced was on the decline and not as bad as people made out, the reason for this is not as you may think the ID card but actually at the time of its introduction most people involved had actually grown too old for the scene and had started to move on, with the threat of prison sentences and young families to care for the Saturday Urban Warrior had had his day, the main violence (and by that I mean violence not a chanting boisterous large gathering of young men travelling en mass) that went with Stoke was the early 80s to the mid to late 90s this was when the trouble was at its height, after this Stoke became a public figure of hate and had earned more of a reputation for previous acts of violence than a real constant threat of every time we play there will be violence, yes instances did occur in the late 90s to early 00s but can anyone really say that the fateful day in Wigan was any where near as bad or on par with Birmingham away or any other acts of mass disorder that occurred from the mid 80s, in fact the majority of people on here probably do not know about the things that went on following Stoke away as the followings in those days were in the main pathetic and most of the trouble occurred well away from the grounds and inside public houses, these acts of disorder then put us under the microscope of the establishment, align this with a healthy but boisterous England following and the unrest and racist chanting at Oldham we became a target for heavy handed Policing, although the violence was at a decline the arrest tally was so high because of better policing methods such as CCTV that enabled officers to revisit the scenes of trouble and make more arrests at later dates plus they employed lower tolerance levels and started to make arrests that would normally go unpunished...You could get arrested for just being in the area of trouble waving your arms or gesturing as this was showing intent so you did not actually have to throw a punch to get a ban added to the growing arrest statistics, remember the racist chanting from the paddock " you're just a town full of ****" and the arrests that resulted from that instance, align that to "I would rather be a ~~~# than a scouse" and see how many arrest were made in the boothen for that chant.....

Now this is going to hurt all you tree hugging sandal and candle brigade who welcomed the card with open arms ...the people who you think the card was brought in to eradicate from the game are actually still attending Stoke matches and with a good inside knowledge most are actually ID card holders.... in fact a very very high number of your most loathsome are card holders and still following Stoke away with the only difference of them now travelling independently(some with children)rather then en mass and looking like a threat.

Now I am sure if Stoke had brought this idea in for all home games too (as there were as many if not more arrests at home than away) a lot more people would have brought into the concept of the card, also why would any season ticket holder need a card (as the club already has their details) other than some sort of big brother exercise for the Police who had extra funding thrown at them by the Government to stamp out the Stoke minority.

I.D cards like my arse...I have gone from being a season ticket holder to a casual part time spectator since the cards introduction, I still travel to the odd away game without a card but I miss the laughs, the lads, the camaraderie and the beer but not always Stoke City.

You really do have to ask your self why and look deep for reason why Stoke are struggling to attract big followings home and away when they sit top of the league in their biggest season in the last 100 years....did we struggle when Lou guided us to the top of the Second division...Vales league.

[MarkWolstanton]

I was looking forward to taking up the offer of a good row with you mozzer but damn it I agree with the majority of your observations.

The funny part is that some would be amazed at how many of the so called naughty boys from the past are found in and around the Waddington suite and corporate areas on match day.

[Stafford-Stokie]

Cant see much wrong with that.

[BraveSirRobin]

i couldnt be arsed to read it so your talking shit you are!

[chopandmash]

is that a big cock sticking up on your avatar.

[s7oke]

bsr

[Widget123]

Now this is going to hurt all you tree hugging sandal and candle brigade who welcomed the card with open arms ...the people who you think the card was brought in to eradicate from the game are actually still attending Stoke matches and with a good inside knowledge most are actually ID card holders.... in fact a very very high number of your most loathsome are card holders and still following Stoke away with the only difference of them now travelling independently(some with children)rather then en mass and looking like a threat.

whilst agreeing with you that the advancement of policing techniques combined with a more "civilised" approach to attending the game (probably spurred on by the real threat of being arrested) has reduced in real terms the hooligan aspect of stoke crowds, the introduction of the ID cards has had a real impact on crime on our awaydays. Those with a record of causing mayem, destruction and fear whom would do so again are now removed from the position of tainting the name of our club.

I'll agree that the "keyboard warriors" of the late 80's/early 90's typified by the "naughty40" amongst others are probably now season ticket holders, possibly in a corporate way too but they no longer pose the threat they used to and some/most probably dont have the rose tinted glasses you prescribe to. By way of indirect comparision it never ceases to amaze me that those who were most disruptive and unprepared to work at highschool level for their grades are the very same people who, upon meeting them again in later life regret the attitude they had in those days.

However the card keeps out those of the current generation of holigans who would slander our club with their actions. These hooligans are not stoke supporters, instead they use the name of "the fan" to their own ends which are inheritantly violent and for their own selfish criminal kicks.

Whilst i miss the larger crowds on the away days, and still resent that with the cards and all that comes with it some local police forces (for example the away game at preston where a heavy police presence also banned the sale of alcohol in the ground) still tar us with the same brush as the older criminal aspect who associate with our club. That upsets me, the ID card doesnt, as it cost me £10 for a lifetime of away games the majority of which are sensibly policed and dont have the silly restrictions the minority clubs stupidly enforce.

[mozzer]

With reports of disorder before Stokes promotion chasing match with Sheffield Wednesday Chief Superintendent Les Shootem of Staffordshire Police last night called an emergency meeting at Stoke City's Britannia Stadium, other people in attendance were active representatives of the scared of our own shadow branch of Stoke City supporters club, leading representatives of Stoke City FC, the Stoke South nodding dog society and leading representatives of the stoke city happy Clappers union who were overheard on the way into the meeting declaring "their time is not being wasted as this is a good platform to form allegiances with their on going struggle with the great Pie debate" a subject that is currently rocking the Britannia Stadium to its foundations, Chief Super Shotem opened the meeting instructing Stoke city on how this new underbelly of disorder WILL be stamped out, Superintendent Shootem outlined his plans giving clear and concise instructions on how this new breed of semi law abiding fan will be eradicated from the game, Stoke City representatives totally agreed and said this was a new dawn in the clubs history as they know the standard of football is not what attracts people to the ground and only now will people come flocking back in their droves safe in the knowledge that football had been made safe for all that wanted to attend, the Dogs nodded and the Happys clapped the instruction as this was seen to be a fantastic springboard to finally get their momentous pie struggle in to the public eye.

Stokes representatives met with the press after the meeting and outlined the new proposal to counter this new threat as clearly the current system of ID cards is not working, they continued " after meeting all representatives from different areas of support we have come to the agreed system of introducing a new card to follow stoke City, this will have a bio metric outline on the card where you will have an iris scan and fingerprints taken if you wish to purchase a ticket that will enable you to travel and watch Stoke play home or away, you will need a signed pass for each match from Staffordshire Police that can be collected between the hours of 930am and 1230 pm Monday to Wednesday from any local Police station, we will also need a doctors certificate to indicate to us that you do not drink or become irate when under pressure". Stoke are hoping these new measures will make following Stoke easier and safer no matter what league Stoke may be competing in come next season, when asked about people not being able to make the police station to obtain match approval at that time of day due to work commitments and the like one of the Nodding dogs retorted " its the same old story people are always looking for excuses, if they don't attend for the card it will be because they don't like our brand of football or they are sick of the way they are being treated, these people should get a life instead of just moaning, they would need a license to drive or a passport to go abroad, some times you have to just roll over and die", at that our reporter left the scene as he realised there were more pressing matters being addressed in an adjoining room where the happy clappers were holding their own press conference hoping to get the best pies for supporters once they had obtained their match passes.

[danceswithclams]

. , : - ' " ( ) \ ?

Here. Have some punctuation.

[mozzer]

Fook off

Here have a fuck off