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Post by Stokie_Lady on Sept 1, 2010 16:51:53 GMT
Our club is going through a big evolution, it has been for the past 3 seasons. For evolution to suceed, certain things have to move on to make an improvement. By this I mean, some club favourites have to leave the club or take a back seat. The players I refer to are LL and Ric. I don't understand why some fans seem to be moaning about the loss of LL because through out the Prem campaigns he has failed to impress and his form has dwindled. Now we have signed JP and an able replacement in John Walters, there was no need for Liam Lawrence to be at the club anymore. As for Ric, I love him as much as the next fan, but in order for this club to move forwards we needed to freshen up the strike force. It is now time, for Ric to take a back seat, although he has been the clubs top scorer for the past two seasons, he only managed 3 in the league last term and that isn't good enough if we are to push on. I don't buy in to the fact that his flare and skill should guarentee him a place in the team because although he is magnificent on the ball he sometimes struggles to do the simple things in football, for example Spurs and Shrews, he should have laid the ball off on many occassions to a player that was in space which could have led to more prolific opportunities. I love Ric to bits, but it's time he found out what it's like to get splinters and let the better talent that we now possess take to the field. The fans that complain about boring football are the same fans that cling to the likes of LL and Glenn Wheelan. And in order to get an evolution of football we need to start with our more talented players, not our club favourites. We all have the same goal, which is to watch better football, climb the league and establish this football club, so lets get behind all the boys a week on monday and take the 3 points.
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Post by foster on Sept 1, 2010 16:57:53 GMT
posted something about this earlier as well.
I reckon that as we evolve this could be the last season for the likes of Delap, Sorro, Faye, Higgy, Wilko, Collins, Fuller, Mama and then the nearly rans like Tonge, Soares, Pugh...
I can see us buying more players in the January window and then replacing the old legs next summer.
Basically, in year 4 of our Prem status we could have a team containing none of the guys who got us here.
Will be sad to see some of those faces leaving but thats what i think will happen. Our wage structure will likely change to accomodate higher earners and a smaller squad size, meaning we'll end us with less but higher quality players.
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Post by gibby1409 on Sept 1, 2010 16:59:16 GMT
I don't disagree with what you say about LL & Whelan, but Ric is deffo not in that category. He is a maverick, and a one-off, and will always do things his own way. What having the better players now means, is that Ric is under less pressure, and so is Matty. Teams knew if you stopped those two, then set pieces apart, we didn't have much of a threat, but not any more! Ric is still a massive part of what we need to achieve over the next couple of seasons, and even though we have brought in some fantastic Players, there are none of them who could do the "Ric" role. In my opinion of course!
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Post by salisburystokie on Sept 1, 2010 17:01:45 GMT
Best post from a woman I've ever seen on this board! Completely agree with you, and I will always be thankful for what the old guard have done for us, and it will be a sad day when they finally leave. But isn't it nice to see the quality that we are now attracting? I think Rick's position this season is best suited to being on the bench and coming on as an impact sub, because we all know what he can do.
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Post by Stokie_Lady on Sept 1, 2010 17:04:16 GMT
I love Ric, Gibby, I really do and your right, he is a very good player and hes one of a kind, but I do find him to be lazy at times and slightly selfish on the ball. And I'm game for change at the Brit.
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Post by PoisonedDonkey on Sept 1, 2010 17:10:23 GMT
I don't understand why some fans seem to be moaning about the loss of LL because through out the Prem campaigns he has failed to impress and his form has dwindled. Because he is probably the main reason why we are in the Prem today, he was by far our best player in the season we were promoted and that is why we're sad to see him go.
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Post by Stokie_Lady on Sept 1, 2010 17:14:48 GMT
So that's great, we'll keep the whole team from the 07/08 season just because they "got us here". Because I'm damned sure it wasn't just LL that got us here, what about Creswells 11 goals that season? What about Leon Corts 5, should we have kept him? The jump from championship to PremierLeague was too big for Lawrence, which is why he's back there. I'm thankful to him I really am for what he helped us to achieve, but it was time to move on for him, he wasn't good enough.
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Post by w15cfc on Sept 1, 2010 17:26:37 GMT
Remember the plan and strategy; 3 years of consolidation and steady development in readiness to push on, the 4th year is when we have planned to be an 'established' PL team. the signings during this window indicate that we are on schedule to achieve the consolidation, we know how far we've come over the last 3 years and where we want to be, all appears to be going as planned.
Ric is as much of a legend as many of our past players and he still has a hell of a lot to offer and to be honest I can really see him finishing his career with us; after all he may only have 2 more seasons at most left in his legs.
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Post by foster on Sept 1, 2010 17:26:46 GMT
So that's great, we'll keep the whole team from the 07/08 season just because they "got us here". Because I'm damned sure it wasn't just LL that got us here, what about Creswells 11 goals that season? What about Leon Corts 5, should we have kept him? The jump from championship to PremierLeague was too big for Lawrence, which is why he's back there. I'm thankful to him I really am for what he helped us to achieve, but it was time to move on for him, he wasn't good enough. Agree... the clubs bigger than any player and should keep moving forward. Respect and gratefulness should be shown to past heroes but if we want to become a consistent top 10 side challenging for europe we need to continue doing what we're doing which will mean improving every position. From the current squad i would say that next season we will likely look to bring in a new Keeper, LB, RB, RW, LW, CM and ST which will signal the end of the players such as LL and those mentioned in my earlier post.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 1, 2010 17:29:07 GMT
So that's great, we'll keep the whole team from the 07/08 season just because they "got us here". Because I'm damned sure it wasn't just LL that got us here, what about Creswells 11 goals that season? What about Leon Corts 5, should we have kept him? The jump from championship to PremierLeague was too big for Lawrence, which is why he's back there. I'm thankful to him I really am for what he helped us to achieve, but it was time to move on for him, he wasn't good enough. I think it was best for Liam to move on - and for his sake, I wish he had managed to secure a move to a bigger club. But, like many other Stokies, I am, for many reasons, sad to see him go. He was probably the best player we have had in our time at the Brit until the past year or so. OK, I'll accept that players like Hooky were more spectacular and Ric is more exciting to watch on his day. But, in terms of what he did for our club, Liam's promotion season with 15 goals and 15 assists was the biggest factor in our promotion. For a bloke who arrived under a huge cloud (after his video exploits) and who cost the square root of bugger all in today's money he really was the dog's bollox and I will miss him. Good luck Liam.
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 1, 2010 17:31:32 GMT
I don't disagree with what you say about LL & Whelan, but Ric is deffo not in that category. He is a maverick, and a one-off, and will always do things his own way. What having the better players now means, is that Ric is under less pressure, and so is Matty. Teams knew if you stopped those two, then set pieces apart, we didn't have much of a threat, but not any more! Ric is still a massive part of what we need to achieve over the next couple of seasons, and even though we have brought in some fantastic Players, there are none of them who could do the "Ric" role. In my opinion of course! Totally agree about Rik but the differance this season will be by Rik not in the first 11 where as last season i think we were weaker this season we won't be.
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Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Sept 1, 2010 17:33:52 GMT
So that's great, we'll keep the whole team from the 07/08 season just because they "got us here". Because I'm damned sure it wasn't just LL that got us here, what about Creswells 11 goals that season? What about Leon Corts 5, should we have kept him? The jump from championship to PremierLeague was too big for Lawrence, which is why he's back there. I'm thankful to him I really am for what he helped us to achieve, but it was time to move on for him, he wasn't good enough. I think it was best for Liam to move on - and for his sake, I wish he had managed to secure a move to a bigger club. But, like many other Stokies, I am, for many reasons, sad to see him go. He was probably the best player we have had in our time at the Brit until the past year or so. OK, I'll accept that players like Hooky were more spectacular and Ric is more exciting to watch on his day. But, in terms of what he did for our club, Liam's promotion season with 15 goals and 15 assists was the biggest factor in our promotion. For a bloke who arrived under a huge cloud (after his video exploits) and who cost the square root of bugger all in today's money he really was the dog's bollox and I will miss him. Good luck Liam. agree wholeheartedly
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Post by Inverness Stokie on Sept 1, 2010 17:34:02 GMT
So that's great, we'll keep the whole team from the 07/08 season just because they "got us here". Because I'm damned sure it wasn't just LL that got us here, what about Creswells 11 goals that season? What about Leon Corts 5, should we have kept him? The jump from championship to PremierLeague was too big for Lawrence, which is why he's back there. I'm thankful to him I really am for what he helped us to achieve, but it was time to move on for him, he wasn't good enough. Every player from our promotion season has penned their name in Stoke City immortality, some would say that's a bit over the top but I do not. Without the goals from that season from Fuller, Lawrence, Cresswell and co we wouldn't be where we are. Also, without some good performances at the back from Shawcross, Zakuani, Cort and Dickinson we wouldn't have won some valuable games, i've missed some players out but you get the point. I think Fuller still has an important part to play, like I said on an earlier thread, these signings cannot walk straight in to the side, they will have to work very damn hard and I think they know this, the competition for places is very tough and we have a tremendous squad, easily the best squad I have ever seen in my lifetime supporting Stoke City. Let the good times roll!
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Post by griffoisalegend on Sept 1, 2010 17:37:39 GMT
Fuller with players of his calibre around him would take his game to another level, yet people want to see him benched when this finally happens? Fucking ridiculous. He's been playing against defences on his own since we've been in the prem, he now has players other than Etherington who can actually attack a team and people want him benched...?
I hope Pulis continues to build the team around him and Jones up front, and no one else - those guys could be absolutely dynamite together. Fit the other players into the midfield, I.E Gudjohnsen on the right(he'd be good anywhere there in my opinion).
Gudjohnsen's too good to just be left up top as far as i'm concerned, and Fuller's far too good up front not to start every game. We're not going to turn into a footballing team overnight, and if you think Jones is going to start chasing 40 yard balls smashed into the corners you've got another thing coming.
When we joined the prem, i never thought we'd have a squad like this though, we've got genuine quality.
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Post by Inverness Stokie on Sept 1, 2010 17:39:22 GMT
So that's great, we'll keep the whole team from the 07/08 season just because they "got us here". Because I'm damned sure it wasn't just LL that got us here, what about Creswells 11 goals that season? What about Leon Corts 5, should we have kept him? The jump from championship to PremierLeague was too big for Lawrence, which is why he's back there. I'm thankful to him I really am for what he helped us to achieve, but it was time to move on for him, he wasn't good enough. I think it was best for Liam to move on - and for his sake, I wish he had managed to secure a move to a bigger club. But, like many other Stokies, I am, for many reasons, sad to see him go. He was probably the best player we have had in our time at the Brit until the past year or so. OK, I'll accept that players like Hooky were more spectacular and Ric is more exciting to watch on his day. But, in terms of what he did for our club, Liam's promotion season with 15 goals and 15 assists was the biggest factor in our promotion. For a bloke who arrived under a huge cloud (after his video exploits) and who cost the square root of bugger all in today's money he really was the dog's bollox and I will miss him. Good luck Liam. Terrific post LP, I still think Liam Lawrence should be at a bigger club than Portsmouth, if Celtic wanted him they should have paid Stoke what he is worth, £7-9M is what I still value the guy at.
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Post by stokiekey on Sept 1, 2010 17:50:11 GMT
I think the only problem with Ric, and every other striker in the squad, for example Tuncay's lack of goals is from the lack of support they're getting from the midfield. We can't always rely on booting it up, or passing it to Ethers in hope that he will charge past everyone all the time. We need some good quality centre mids. I think Gudjohnson and Wilson will be the answer to that problem, and the right flank will be a problem when Pennant's spell is over with us. Obviousely if he doesn't sign, which is unlikely in my opinion.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 1, 2010 18:25:59 GMT
I think the only problem with Ric, and every other striker in the squad, for example Tuncay's lack of goals is from the lack of support they're getting from the midfield. We can't always rely on booting it up, or passing it to Ethers in hope that he will charge past everyone all the time. We need some good quality centre mids. I think Gudjohnson and Wilson will be the answer to that problem, and the right flank will be a problem when Pennant's spell is over with us. Obviousely if he doesn't sign, which is unlikely in my opinion.I'd have thought a Pennant signing was far from improbable. We've obviously got him on a short loan as a "try before you buy" operation. If he does well we'll try and sign him I should think. He wants to move back to England so the question is how big a club will be interested. You can probably rule out the top six or seven clubs and that realistically leaves another six or seven clubs who might be interested and have the money - and we would be one of those I expect. Still - it is all academic unless a) he proves himself and b) we maintain a mid table or top half position.
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Post by stokiekey on Sept 1, 2010 18:32:34 GMT
I think the only problem with Ric, and every other striker in the squad, for example Tuncay's lack of goals is from the lack of support they're getting from the midfield. We can't always rely on booting it up, or passing it to Ethers in hope that he will charge past everyone all the time. We need some good quality centre mids. I think Gudjohnson and Wilson will be the answer to that problem, and the right flank will be a problem when Pennant's spell is over with us. Obviousely if he doesn't sign, which is unlikely in my opinion.I'd have thought a Pennant signing was far from improbable. We've obviously got him on a short loan as a "try before you buy" operation. If he does well we'll try and sign him I should think. He wants to move back to England so the question is how big a club will be interested. You can probably rule out the top six or seven clubs and that realistically leaves another six or seven clubs who might be interested and have the money - and we would be one of those I expect. Still - it is all academic unless a) he proves himself and b) we maintain a mid table or top half position. Your probably right but I think he's one of those players who wants the money more than anything, one of the big-time charlies, probably just coming here on loan to impress for another club in January, and get that big money contract he's probably looking for. We won't give him big wages because of our wage structure. However, I do hope he signs perminently in January to show that he wants to be a part of our hopefully bright future.
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 1, 2010 18:33:13 GMT
Ricardo will be 1 of 4 or 5 competing for the striking positions now, not a guaranteed automatic pick no matter how badly he plays, which is how it should be.
He still has a lot to offer Stoke and hopefully the competition for places will see him raise his game to stay in the team.
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