Summer outgoings guessing game

[FullerMagic]

Outs

Sonko £500k, £1m-a-year wages
Davies £300k, £600k-a-year wages
Griffiin £300k, £500k-a-year wages Reading
Dickinson £500k, £400k-a-year wages Barnsley

Am.Faye free, £500k-a-year wages
Pugh £400k, £500k-a-year wages
Lawrence £2.5m, £1m-a-year wages
Soares £500k, £600k-a-year wages
Tonge £700k, £900k-a-year wages Preston/Derby

Tuncay £4m, £2m-a-year wages Germany
Kitson £1m, £1.5m-a-year wages
Beattie £1m, £2m-a-year wages QPR/Middlesbrough


Is this remotely feasible when we're talking about outgoings and potential wage bill savings?

No doubt the summer sales won't, ultimately, turn out to be this extreme, but maybe each individual exit is more than possible?

If it all happened, we could be looking at cutting the wage bill by 1/3, to leave space for some big names, although you'd think we could have to subsidise a lot of their wages if they moved to the C'ship, just to make the deals affordable for the buying clubs?


It's almost impossible to guess how much money we could bring in by guessing at potential values. It'd almost be worth practically giving them away to get them off the wage bill, even if we have to part-subsidise their wages initially?

Finding a Championship buyer for them would be the problem. Would anyone pay out a fee in this climate for the likes of Davies and Soares?

And who, at that level, would have the money and room in the wage bill for a 30-year-old like Kitson coming off 2 poor seasons?

Would anyone really see someone like Danny Pugh as a Championship-level difference-maker worth a hefty £500k fee and a £500k-a-year contract? You could ask that question about a lot of our fringe and sub-fringe players in the current climate.

I think we'll give Diao another season for non-football reasons.

Griffin and Dicko seem to have done excellently on loan and have maybe impressed enough for their clubs to dig deep to buy them permanently?

But Nigel Clough was talking at the weekend about having to try and get Tonge on loan again as he couldn't afford his wages.

[Gob Bluth]

I think based on the fact they're more valuable to us than the price we'd be able to get for them I'd like to see us keep hold of Pugh and Kitson.

Kitson is occasionally frustrating with his quests to win free-kicks but I think he's adapting to the Stoke play quite well of late and Pugh is a great bloke to have on the bench being able to cover so many positions on the pitch.

I wouldn't mind us selling Tuncay but I'd like us to keep him until we've made our major signings as it could send the wrong message out to potential players.

I think we'll do well to get the price you've listed for Sonko, Tongue and Liam but I hope you're right.

[FullerMagic]

It's impossible to guess fees, isn't it?

If someone would have told me we'd get our money back on Olofinjana and make a small profit on Cort, I'd have assumed they were on day release from a mental hospital.

If you go back 2 years, Lawrence was maybe the most effective player in the Championship and is now a regular with Ireland, so maybe £2.5m would represent a fair price?

But, again, who in the Championship has got the money to splash that kind of figure - as you can't see him arousing much Premier League interest? Maybe the team that comes up through the play-offs?

As for Tonge, it's amazing to think we paid £2m for him 18 months ago. And he seems to be doing okay, maybe even well, for Derby. But whether any middle-ranking C'ship team would see him as a wise investment at £500k+, plus the nudging £1m-a-year salary he's got another 2 years of here, has got to be unlikely.

Same story with Sonko, who we amazingly paid over £2m for 18 months ago, and God only knows where he'll be heading, or even if there'll be any serious interest at all from anyone in a position to make any kind of serious offer, especially after his nightmarish last 2 years, but at least he only has one year left here.

Similar depressing story with Soares and Davies, who've both got another 2 years at what must be over £500,000-a-year, yet have made next to no impression during their loan spells in the Championship and don't seem to be sexy enough in the current market to encourage decent bids from the Championship.

Maybe it'd be worth our while to let them all go for peanuts, and just leave the buying club with the wages to deal with.

[PickSCFC]

i cant see that many players leaving tbh

[Irish Stokie]

Wow, wow, wow, are you telling me Sonko is on nearly £20k a week?! Fuck me thats crazy money for a brutal player.

[ColonelMustard]

Things are getting busy now.
I think Pugh will stay.
Kitson's value could be better than we think. For him to be played so much either his value is expected to be significantly higher as a consequence or he is truly back in the fold and may stay because I'm sure were there clauses in his contract that would be triggered by playing in too many games?
The one I worry about is Ric.

[FullerMagic]

Apr 13, 2010 11:40:15 GMT Irish Stokie said:

Wow, wow, wow, are you telling me Sonko is on nearly £20k a week?! Fuck me thats crazy money for a brutal player.

Just a guess, Irish.

But the Hull local paper actually claimed today that Hull had paid us a £500k loan fee and had agreed to pay his £30,000-a-week wages until the end of June.
www.sporthull.co.uk/headlines/Transfer-spending-spree-lead-financial-nightmare/article-2007636-detail/article.html

If that's even remotely close to the truth, you can see why we weren't prepared to take him back, once it became clear that Tango had washed his hands of him.

When you look at Hull's £38m wage bill and actually look at the dross on it who must be getting £1m-a-year+, it makes you realise how crazy Premier League salaries are.

[ricardofuller10]

pugh, lawrence, kitson, tuncay will all stay.

the little name in the likes of soares and tonge will be leaving this summer and adding more money onto the total coates gives pulis to spend.

No doubt that peter reid will do a little bit of hingting towards players,

[Deleted]

It’s pretty simple really, it can’t be much different to Football Manager surely?

I’d get rid of: -

Beattie
Sonko
Dicko
Griffin
Am. Faye
Pugh
Davies
Lenny
Soares
Tonge
Mama

I’d sign: -

Belhadj
O’Hara
Heskey
Rodallega
Parker
Pennant

I’d bring Shotton back into the squad too and Arismendi (if he’s up to it that is. Never seen him yet but he must have something about him if we’ve spunked a few mill on him). I’d bring Marshall back into the squad too.

Job's a good 'un.

WD

[ricardofuller10]

Apr 13, 2010 11:50:06 GMT whydelilah said:

It’s pretty simple really, it can’t be much different to Football Manager surely?

I’d get rid of: -

Beattie
Sonko
Dicko
Griffin
Am. Faye
Pugh
Davies
Lenny
Soares
Tonge
Mama

I’d sign: -

Belhadj
O’Hara
Heskey
Rodallega
Parker
Pennant

I’d bring Shotton back into the squad too and Arismendi (if he’s up to it that is. Never seen him yet but he must have something about him if we’ve spunked a few mill on him). I’d bring Marshall back into the squad too.

Job's a good 'un.

WD

PENNANT

theres a first.

[FullerMagic]

I keep forgetting Arismendi exists.
If a tree falls in the forest and no-one is around to hear, does it make a sound?

Will he ever start a league game for us?
Doubtful.

Chances of moving this summer?
You wouldn't rule it out, would you?

[wakefieldstokie]

Apr 13, 2010 11:50:06 GMT whydelilah said:

It’s pretty simple really, it can’t be much different to Football Manager surely?

I’d get rid of: -

Beattie
Sonko
Dicko
Griffin
Am. Faye
Pugh
Davies
Lenny
Soares
Tonge
Mama

I’d sign: -

Belhadj
O’Hara
Heskey
Rodallega
Parker
Pennant

I’d bring Shotton back into the squad too and Arismendi (if he’s up to it that is. Never seen him yet but he must have something about him if we’ve spunked a few mill on him). I’d bring Marshall back into the squad too.

Job's a good 'un.

WD

Yes I think Shotton deserves to be back at Stoke next season.

[ricardofuller10]

Apr 13, 2010 11:54:24 GMT FullerMagic said:

I keep forgetting Arismendi exists.
If a tree falls in the forest and no-one is around to hear, does it make a sound?

Will he ever start a league game for us?
Doubtful.

Chances of moving this summer?
You wouldn't rule it out, would you?

Excelent point.

[RAF]

Arismendi = de Laet

H

[actongatestokie]

30k a week for Sonko?

Jesus wept, i'm in the wrong job. Stick me a pair of boots on and even I could slash the ball into the crowd for a quarter of that!

Remind me, who deals with the contracts now?

[knowles]

Sonko- £1.5 million to West Brom
Davies- £1 million to Middlesbrough
Griffin- £200K to Reading
Amdy Faye- Free to QPR
Kitson- £2.75 million to Forest
Soares- £800K to Watford
Tonge- £800K to Derby
Beattie- £500K to QPR
Lawrence- £1.25 million to Burnley
Wedderburn- Free to Cheltenham
St. Louis-Hamilton- Free to Meir KA

[frodekippe]

Out On Loan:
Dicko. Arismendi. Davies. Marshall.

Keep for 1st Team Squad:
Kitson. Lawrence. Tuncay. Pugh. Moult. Shotton.

Time to get rid:
Amdy Faye. Simmo. Mama. Griff. Tonge. Soares. Sonko. Beattie.

[knowles]

Simmo is staying for another year mate- he's signed a new contract Would be good to get him out on loan with a recall clause for emergency.

[FullerMagic]

Apr 13, 2010 12:07:19 GMT knowles said:

Sonko- £1.5 million to West Brom
Davies- £1 million to Middlesbrough
Griffin- £200K to Reading
Amdy Faye- Free to QPR
Kitson- £2.75 million to Forest
Soares- £800K to Watford
Tonge- £800K to Derby
Beattie- £500K to QPR
Lawrence- £1.25 million to Burnley
Wedderburn- Free to Cheltenham
St. Louis-Hamilton- Free to Meir KA

I hope you're right on the Kitson guess, Knowlesy.

Almost takes your breath away when you think we could virtually have got our money back on him less than 12 months ago if Reading would have gone up. I haven't got a clue about the kind of club who'd be in for him, but I really don't think he'll start next season here.

I'd take anything to get Soares and Davies off the wage bill. They're just dead weights. They could turn into bargains for somebody, but they're doing us no good and I can't see anyone putting good money down for them after the way their careers have nosedived over the last 2 years.

At least Tonge has played some decent games at a decent level this year.

And Sonko is another who it's bloody impossible to value.

[apb1]

Lots of interesting points to mull over.

The thing is, you do need a pool of backup 'non-regular first 18' players, for emergencies, players who almost by definiton are not that good that they would be getting similar wages and guaranteed first team football elsewhere. Only need to have all your injuries in one position and the squad system kicks in.

Ideally you would have this fringe group from your own younger players, who could be on recallable loan deals, but in the meantime as our academy players come through, you need squad fillers of exactly the Pugh, Davies, Am Faye calibre.

I think Am Faye will leave as his contract's up, and a couple of others who want to play might go permanently (maybe to a promoted team or to Burnley who might be cash rich as they've not spent much and will have parachute payments). The others will loiter, flitting between unimpressive loan spell and the odd reserve game.

We would, though, surely give Sonko away and maybe pay some of his wages to piss off - he hasn't even got a squad number now!

[FullerMagic]

Yeah. Take your point, apb.

But there's peripheral fringe players..... and then there's peripheral fringe players.

We can't really count Soares, Tonge, Davies, Griffin, Dicko or Sonko as even being properly Stoke players anymore, can we?

Maybe a bit harsh on Dicko - but I get the impression TP may just offload him this summer.

Most of them may as well not exist, just like Arismendi. It'd take an outbreak of the plague for them to get on the bench - and that's before what we assume will be major strengthening this summer

And Pugh is also about as peripheral as it gets. And he may want a move, just to get regular football, especially if we sign a couple of CMs ( as we probably will) . He won't get a sniff at LB or LM.

I think the great unknown this summer is if we'll strengthen the full-back positions or just keep the quartet of Huth, Wilko, Higgy and Collins in place as options, maybe supplemented with Shotton as an option at RB?


And, if Lawrence is allowed to go, maybe we'd need 2 players coming in who can play wide right to avoid another season of the Whitehead/Delap compromise? (assuming Marshall is not considered as even an option for next season)

GK Sorensen Begovic Simonsen

RB Huth Wilko Shotton Griffin Davies

LB Higgy Collins Pugh Dicko Griffin

CB Huth Faye Shawcross Higgy Collins Shotton Sonko Davies

RM *NEW* Delap Whitehead Lawrence Soares

CM *NEW* *NEW* Delap Whelan Whitehead Pugh

LM Ethers *NEW* Tonge

ST Fuller *NEW* *NEW* Sidibe Beattie Tuncay Kitson

[apb1]

Our 'flexible centre back' system does help cover the defensive side of things, but still would prefer 8 first team defenders - perhaps one could be a full back *NEW*

Then again, both Whitehead and Delap could play there preventing any need to have a specialist full back, ever.

And Delap's ability to play just as badly at left mid as he does at right mid should mean we don't need a NEW there either.

I'd also keep Tuncay - Ethers was shit after his first few games last year but came back a new man after Stoke City fit pre season training.

So a FB, a new CM, an RM, and two Strikers should do nicely. Did you tot up the income from your little selling spree? Will it cover the above?

[nottinghamstokie]

What about Cort ? or did we sell, as opposed to loan, him to Burnley ?

[Teddler Stokie Born and Bred]

why is tuncay on the list are you being starved of oxygen to the brain??????????

[FullerMagic]

Apr 13, 2010 13:30:59 GMT apb1 said:

Our 'flexible centre back' system does help cover the defensive side of things, but still would prefer 8 first team defenders - perhaps one could be a full back *NEW*

Then again, both Whitehead and Delap could play there preventing any need to have a specialist full back, ever.

And Delap's ability to play just as badly at left mid as he does at right mid should mean we don't need a NEW there either.

I'd also keep Tuncay - Ethers was shit after his first few games last year but came back a new man after Stoke City fit pre season training.

So a FB, a new CM, an RM, and two Strikers should do nicely. Did you tot up the income from your little selling spree? Will it cover the above?

If we really took an axe to the squad filler, could find buyers for all of them, and were bold enough to get rid of big names like Kitson, Lawrence, Beattie and Tuncay, maybe we could rake in £10m+, and save around £10m-a-year in wages, which could represent about one third of the current wage bill?

We could then bring in 5 players on, for us, top money without giving us a crippling wage bill.

I suppose, in reality, it'll be a lot more complicated than that to completely sever ties with some of our wage drains and signings that haven't quite worked out.
I don't know how often clubs in our position, who have accumulated highly-paid dross have to do it ,to ease departures, but you can see us having to do lots of deals on wages if we want to move people on, so the savings maybe wouldn't prove to be as big?

I'd like to keep Tuncay, but from Pulis' point of view, I can't see us getting £40k-a-week worth of value out of him in our setup. And, for his own sake as a player of repute, as much as ours, I think we'll see a parting of the ways. A season of 20-minute cameos every second game probably won't appeal to him.

Any kind of decent cover for Etherington is a worry though - and with the priorities elsewhere in midfield, will this get overlooked? As you say, it'd be disappointing if Rory's versatility was next in line there for another season.

[FullerMagic]

Apr 13, 2010 13:54:46 GMT Teddler Stokie Born and Bred said:

why is tuncay on the list are you being starved of oxygen to the brain??????????

If he stays, how many games do you see him starting next season in:

a.) the Fuller/advanced striker role
b.) the Mama/withdrawn striker role
c.) out wide.

He's on the fringes as it is, and you can see us buying one player in each of those positions that are going to squeeze him out further.

That'll leave us with a player getting £2m-a-year who is giving us the same kind of minutes-on-the-pitch as Danny Pugh, and one seriously pissed off Turkish captain. It all points at a sale

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2010 14:14:06 GMT FullerMagic said:

Apr 13, 2010 13:54:46 GMT Teddler Stokie Born and Bred said:

why is tuncay on the list are you being starved of oxygen to the brain??????????

If he stays, how many games do you see him starting next season in:

a.) the Fuller/advanced striker role
b.) the Mama/withdrawn striker role
c.) out wide.

He's on the fringes as it is, and you can see us buying one player in each of those positions that are going to squeeze him out further.

That'll leave us with a player getting £2m-a-year who is giving us the same kind of minutes-on-the-pitch as Danny Pugh, and one seriously pissed off Turkish captain. It all points at a sale

I agree FM, I think Tunny will be off in The Summer as you say everything points to a sale. I really hope I am wrong but I can also see Ryan leaving, I have no evidence but I can see Man U completely revamping their squad in the closed season and I think Ryan is on their shopping list.

[FullerMagic]

Do you think they could rustle up £20m for him this summer though? It'd measure a 10 on the Richter Scale if they did

[Deleted]

I hope not mate...I hope Ryan's the mainstay of our defence for a long, long time. The moneys great but in time Ryan will become an international regular.

[skip]

Apr 13, 2010 11:40:15 GMT Irish Stokie said:

Wow, wow, wow, are you telling me Sonko is on nearly £20k a week?! Fuck me thats crazy money for a brutal player.

;D ;D ;D