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Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 4, 2010 20:40:43 GMT
Any outsider reading this message board could well assume that the team was nosediving to relegation to the Conference  Unfortunately,just like Praise and Grumble on the radio, the Oatcake does attract attention seekers and depressives who wrongly believe that football will somehow lift them out of their destined state. This is not to say that the above don't have valid opinions - it's just that their desire for retribution after a poor game tends to blind them to the bigger picture Take our current run - 5 games undefeated with arguably two good games, one ok and two poor games with no defeats. Most fans would look at those results and feel that we were making progress. Not so our keyboard warriors who swamp the board. One of their leaders even managed to top the board on the same day with threads written under two different names this week Anyway, I digress  Can Pulis continue to progress - well who knows - probably not even the man himself. Since being backed by Coates, Pulis has indeed been successful having ( I believe) finished with Stoke in a higher position every season during his time with the club. Of course this track record gets more difficult to beat with every new success and you would not expect to see Stoke in the Champions League in the near future Pulis is successful but as we all acknowledge, his success comes at a price. That price being that we often have to watch longball which is not attractive to the eye. For me the end justifies the means but I can understand that a significant minority find our style difficult to accept Can Pulis continue with the status quo? - well I suspect that he can for this season and maybe into next but sooner or later the fans looking for 'entertainment' will not be satisfied with survival as a goal. By that time Pulis will need to have evolved his longball into something more pleasing to the eye I am sure that Pulis knows this and I would guess the acquisition of Collins was a move in that direction - we can't improve our football with fullbacks who can't pass the ball - maybe we will go for wingbacks but we don't have the squad yet for that change Anyway we can still expect the entertaining battles at home to keep us occupied whilst Pulis searches for plan B ( Francis confirmed that we were developing one - but it must still be early doors!  ) Good luck TP |
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Post by etonrifle on Feb 4, 2010 20:55:40 GMT
Any outsider reading this message board could well assume that the team was nosediving to relegation to the Conference Take our current run - 5 games undefeated Of course his track record gets more difficult to beat with every new success and you would expect to see Stoke in the Champions League in the near future Pulis likes status quo and has all there singles ffs classic mate |
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Post by swampySCFC on Feb 4, 2010 21:05:59 GMT
You can ask this question about any Manager in the Prem
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Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 4, 2010 21:31:40 GMT
Only Coyle is the savoiur of Premiership football - dont you read the papers?
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 4, 2010 21:37:44 GMT
the Oatcake does attract attention seekers You said it mate |
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 4, 2010 21:37:47 GMT
Paul, I reckon Pulis's psychological makeup will be his downfall...eventually. He's not a winner. He's a non-loser. There is a subtle difference.
M.
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Feb 4, 2010 21:41:50 GMT
To the original question. Yes.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Feb 4, 2010 21:42:21 GMT
OS: I understand your point but, just how many 'winners' are there amongst the Premier League's managers? There are only 3 or 4 clubs that ever win anything!
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Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 4, 2010 21:47:12 GMT
OS: I understand your point but, just how many 'winners' are there amongst the Premier League's managers? There are only 3 or 4 clubs that ever win anything! Dozin - tis a very good point. I would regard MoN a very good manager, but I know Villa fans who would say he aint a winner. Same goes for Sam, Hodgson etc - oh you get the point as you made it in the first place  The bloke drives me insane sometimes, but ala Fishpaste discussion, the Mackems are not be happy with old broken nose at the moment, Blackburn fans seem resigned to mid table nogga and some arent happy, and dont get me started on poor old Arsenal fans ;D - so where does one draw the line? |
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Post by stokelad84 on Feb 4, 2010 21:50:43 GMT
Paul, I reckon Pulis's psychological makeup will be his downfall...eventually. He's not a winner. He's a non-loser. There is a subtle difference. M. Roy Keane was a winner at Man Utd. Different case when he went into management |
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Post by boweryboy on Feb 4, 2010 21:51:00 GMT
what have we won so far or liable to win under Pulis,and when will we get attractive football when he thinks its time to push on,he has just extended Mamas contract to 2012,does that sound as though we will be changing our style,if Pulis extends Diao's contract then i see alot of new fans not bothering to renew season tickets again,because you know what you are going to get yet again.......
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 4, 2010 21:58:07 GMT
Doz, it's not a case of CAN you win, it's a case of do you put winning as your priority. Obviously, now, Pulis is establishing us as best he can and he's doing a damned fine job of it. However, at some point, the fans will demand more than survival. It's then that a winning mentality is required and as Pulis has displayed throughout his entire managerial career, he doesn't seem to have that winning mentality. It's been his downfall on many occasions and we've seen lots of examples ourselves. However, the perfect example of his mentality can be seen when he was managing Gillingham in the play-off final. Leading 2-0 with just minutes to go, he withdrew all his forwards. Man City won 3-2. That's what happens when you don't have the winning mentality.
OS.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 4, 2010 22:02:49 GMT
Doz, it's not a case of CAN you win, it's a case of do you put winning as your priority. Obviously, now, Pulis is establishing us as best he can and he's doing a damned fine job of it. However, at some point, the fans will demand more than survival. It's then that a winning mentality is required and as Pulis has displayed throughout his entire managerial career, he doesn't seem to have that winning mentality. It's been his downfall on many occasions and we've seen lots of examples ourselves. However, the perfect example of his mentality can be seen when he was managing Gillingham in the play-off final. Leading 2-0 with just minutes to go, he withdrew all his forwards. Man City won 3-2. That's what happens when you don't have the winning mentality. OS. OS - granted - but then one can apply similar to so many Prem mgrs - MoN re European fiasco, Sam playing 1 up front away from home, Moyes the same - the list goes on. I grant fans will get itchy but most Prem mgrs just want to stay in the Prem - few have ambitions of winning it |
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 4, 2010 23:22:10 GMT
touche Puggs Pulis has been successful but the measure of success in future will be a full stadium - indeed even needing to fill in the corners A full stadium will follow entertainment and entertainment as we know can sometimes be obtained even with longball - we will always need a target man with TP in charge. However when we have negative teams like Liverpool ( and Blackburn will be similar) then we need more football to get past them Can Pulis deliver - I think he might and we will soon see next season. He has certainly earned the right to try without being vilified every other week |
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Post by pmjh on Feb 4, 2010 23:45:22 GMT
He withdrew all his forwards man city won 3-2. Reminds me of a certain Alf Ramsey. He was a shit manager as well. It's the usual thing to do FFS.
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Post by CraigWally on Feb 4, 2010 23:45:38 GMT
.....and we will soon see next season. I'm sick of hearing this, we keep hearing it will get better soon when we're established he'll be able to atttract better players etc...etc...etc FFS wake up... it's never gonna change |
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Post by march4 on Feb 4, 2010 23:46:07 GMT
He has seen nothing but success in this second stint at Stoke. With Uncle Peter's support we are on the verge of the most successful period in our club's history. And still some people moan!!!! |
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Post by bostonstokie on Feb 4, 2010 23:56:11 GMT
.....and we will soon see next season. I'm sick of hearing this, we keep hearing it will get better soon when we're established he'll be able to atttract better players etc...etc...etc FFS wake up... it's never gonna change Christ Craig, we have attracted better players, Tuncay being only the most obvious example, not to mention what might be the best young keeper in England choosing Stoke over Spurs. I picked a random game from the promotion season - 6 October, a 2-1 win over Colchester. Here was our squad: Simonsen, Wright, Shawcross, Matteo, Wilkinson (Dickinson 42), Cresswell, Delap, Eustace, Lawrence (Sweeney 90), Fuller, Sidibe (Parkin 67). Seems to me like we've managed to attract better players... |
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Post by CraigWally on Feb 5, 2010 0:03:46 GMT
I agree we've attracted better players - but the systems still the same
We kept getting told we would play more attractive football when the better players arrived
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Post by smithy27 on Feb 5, 2010 0:04:56 GMT
to me there is a vast difference to being successful and winning,if winning is only deemed as obtaining silverware.I dont think anyone can say Pulis has not been successful,getting Stoke promoted and getting us to a mid-field place in our second season,and still being in the FA cup.
To get us higher in the league with better players and playing more entertaining football will not be done overnight,but i certainly believe we are moving in the right direction and with Coates continued support and an element of luck can see no reason why we should not become an established premiership side.
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Post by Tubes on Feb 5, 2010 0:12:08 GMT
.....and we will soon see next season. I'm sick of hearing this, we keep hearing it will get better soon when we're established he'll be able to atttract better players etc...etc...etc FFS wake up... it's never gonna change surely it has changed. We are slowly sheeding those players who are championship standard, and replacing them with better models. Surely we wouldn't have been able to attract Tuncay when we were first promoted? Look at the squad we were promoted with and compare. People want success too quickly. We have exceeded expectations in each of the last two seasons, and are on course for finishing in mid table for our second season in the top flight. I know moaning about your team is pretty much an integral part of being a football fan, but I don't see what we've got to moan about. Steady progression year on year? Being bored of the football? At least we're not playing boring football in league one. |
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Post by petemac on Feb 5, 2010 0:14:13 GMT
This and like other posts we have had since we did not sign Ronaldo during the transfer window.......A NONE SUBJECT
Just think, we could be Portsmouth FFS
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 5, 2010 10:18:02 GMT
He's not a winner. He's a non-loser. There is a subtle difference. M. Where do we start with this comment! Do you mean not a winner like Phil Brown, OS or maybe not a winner like Mick Macarthy or Brian Laws or Owen Coyle. Or not a winner like Zola or Martinez or Bruce or Allarydyce! |
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Post by Titan Uranus on Feb 5, 2010 10:25:09 GMT
I'm sick of hearing this, we keep hearing it will get better soon when we're established he'll be able to atttract better players etc...etc...etc FFS wake up... it's never gonna change Christ Craig, we have attracted better players, Tuncay being only the most obvious example, not to mention what might be the best young keeper in England choosing Stoke over Spurs. I picked a random game from the promotion season - 6 October, a 2-1 win over Colchester. Here was our squad: Simonsen, Wright, Shawcross, Matteo, Wilkinson (Dickinson 42), Cresswell, Delap, Eustace, Lawrence (Sweeney 90), Fuller, Sidibe (Parkin 67). Seems to me like we've managed to attract better players... That's the point though... we have attracted better players, no dispute. but we still play crap football. |
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