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Post by manmarking on May 29, 2017 11:53:53 GMT
Nonsense. All governments don't 'have to' double Saddam Hussein's trade credit after he's massacred 170,000 Kurds (5000 or so of them by gas). They don't have to send the SAS to arm, train and support the Khmer Rouge. They don't have to be complicit in the murder of their own security forces in Northern Ireland. They don't have to arm Saudi Arabia for its illegal war in Yemen. At the same time as Saudi Arabia continues to spread the violent Wahhabist ideology so beloved of Islamic terrorists throughout our own country. Tory governments don't have to do any of this: they choose to. (In the case of Wahhabism, Labour is equally guilty). No problem - it's government's prerogative and it's MPs' own individual consciences that they'll have to live with. But let's at least be honest and not dress it up as a series of necessary evils. They weren't and they're not The Oxford Dictionary definition of terrorism is "The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." Every one of the people and organisations I've listed above has been guilty of that. So I'm not mixing up despicable regimes with terrorists - it's perfectly possible to be both Try telling a Kurd that Saddam Hussein wasn't a terrorist, he was just a very naughty boy. Equally, when a child trod on a British-supplied landmine in the jungles of Cambodia, or a son got 'disappeared' in Chile, I'd assume families applied the dictionary definition, not yours. For the Tories and its media attack dogs to put this much time and effort into attacking Jeremy Corbyn for 'virtue signalling' - when they're so guilty of so much worse themselves - just demonstrates how desperate and how scared they've got. Good. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch Try reading what I wrote. I said Governments have to work with other governments including despicable regimes. What they choose to do is, of course, open to question and challenge. And Goverments frequently get it wrong. Left and right. For whatever reason. That's fairly clear. I guess you see Corbyn as the man to make a sea change in foreign policy. His history doesn't give much confidence in this regard. I did read what you wrote mate; that's why I pointed out the basic error in your statement "You're mixing up despicable regimes with terrorists". More often than not, despicable regimes are terrorists. The simple truth is that the Tories have a lot more blood on their hands than Jeremy Corbyn. Like, a fucking load more. I don't necessarily see Corbyn as the person to do anything regarding our foreign policy to be honest. (Although it's worth noting that his policy of talking to the IRA, once adopted by the mainstream, achieved far more in terms of lasting peace than anything Thatcher/Major ever did). For the main, I just can't be doing with the rank hypocrisy of the Tory smear campaign, that's all. Although I admit I do find it amusing how desperate they've become, in an election they have no right to lose
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Post by manmarking on May 29, 2017 8:34:56 GMT
From apartheid South Africa to Saudi Arabia, the IRA, the UDA/UFF, Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini (by extension Hezbollah), Pinochet's Chile, the Khmer Rouge, General Ul Haq of Pakistan (by extension the Afghan mujahideen and al Qaeda), the 'rebels' in Libya... You're mixing up despicable regimes with terrorists - which all Governments have to do. Of course, we may not like what they do with do with these regimes (Thatcher and Pinochet being particularly nauseating) but it seems the mantra "my enemy's enemy is my friend" applies quite consistently and with devastating consequences as seen in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The IRA reference you make is very interesting as you make it in conjunction with their loyalist (and equally murderous) counterparts the UDA/UDF. Of course Governments of either hue established some communication with these groups during the Troubles. Distasteful for sure, but correct politics. Talk to both sides because both sides are needed for a solution. Corbyn though, spoke with just the IRA. Why didn't he talk with the other lot? I'll speculate that it's because, as a left winger, he identified with the populist oppressed. His interest wasn't peace. It was, using the modern parlance, virtue signalling. Same goes for his dalliance with Hamas and Hezbollah. Nonsense. All governments don't 'have to' double Saddam Hussein's trade credit after he's massacred 170,000 Kurds (5000 or so of them by gas). They don't have to send the SAS to arm, train and support the Khmer Rouge. They don't have to be complicit in the murder of their own security forces in Northern Ireland. They don't have to arm Saudi Arabia for its illegal war in Yemen. At the same time as Saudi Arabia continues to spread the violent Wahhabist ideology so beloved of Islamic terrorists throughout our own country. Tory governments don't have to do any of this: they choose to. (In the case of Wahhabism, Labour is equally guilty). No problem - it's government's prerogative and it's MPs' own individual consciences that they'll have to live with. But let's at least be honest and not dress it up as a series of necessary evils. They weren't and they're not The Oxford Dictionary definition of terrorism is "The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." Every one of the people and organisations I've listed above has been guilty of that. So I'm not mixing up despicable regimes with terrorists - it's perfectly possible to be both Try telling a Kurd that Saddam Hussein wasn't a terrorist, he was just a very naughty boy. Equally, when a child trod on a British-supplied landmine in the jungles of Cambodia, or a son got 'disappeared' in Chile, I'd assume families applied the dictionary definition, not yours. For the Tories and its media attack dogs to put this much time and effort into attacking Jeremy Corbyn for 'virtue signalling' - when they're so guilty of so much worse themselves - just demonstrates how desperate and how scared they've got. Good. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch
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Post by manmarking on May 28, 2017 21:33:50 GMT
You really should look at your own party if we're going to talk about lying and associating with terrorists FYD. I suspect you'd really not want to go down that route though eh? Go down that route, please. From apartheid South Africa to Saudi Arabia, the IRA, the UDA/UFF, Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini (by extension Hezbollah), Pinochet's Chile, the Khmer Rouge, General Ul Haq of Pakistan (by extension the Afghan mujahideen and al Qaeda), the 'rebels' in Libya...
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Post by manmarking on May 28, 2017 19:56:18 GMT
Just bean thinking about the Tory's overzealous going after Corbin for IRA links are they actually trying to derail the peace process in Northern Ireland, together with them saying about going to was over Gibraltar, going to war with the EU Is this a party that just like conflict and not peace You should know by now: they're allowed to make political capital from terrorism, but Labour aren't
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Post by manmarking on May 27, 2017 22:40:49 GMT
I don't live in Cheetham Hill but I'm sure there is plenty of people who are happy to live there. Not everyone's been fortunate enough to have two careers as a welder and a big cheese in the civil service running simultaneously like you...... Cream always rises to the top as the saying goes, you sound very jealous if I may say so, if you work hard and use the talents that God gave to you in a constructive manner it will serve you well, as you say there well might be individuals that are happy living in Cheetham Hill ignorance is bliss as another saying goes, another one just for you birds of a feather stick together. One thing I am 100% certain of there will be more chance of a terrorist been located in that area than the area I currently reside in, enjoy your multicultural utopia it sounds as if it suits you, meanwhile I will enjoy living in my not so multicultural utopia until I decide where I will spend the rest of my days, I can guarantee you it will not be in Greater Manchester.
It's a pity God didn't give you the talents of empathy, communication or tact.
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Post by manmarking on May 27, 2017 18:37:55 GMT
The whole thread is full of feelings, most of them fairly right-wing, yer numpty The post was binned for legal reasons I assume. Plenty of facts from the so-called 'right-wing', and plenty of 'hope' stuff from the left-wing mob as far as I could tell ... But that doesn't explain why Rog's post asking why his post was binned also got binned? I read his post, albeit on a 'flying visit' so I didn't click any of the multiple links he provided. Surely Admin could just say what was wrong? I agree I'm not sure why his post highlighting the deletion was binned (nor why my response - suggesting legal reasons - was also binned) I would assume it's a legal worry of some sort. Might explain why there was no explanation given. I've seen much stronger stuff allowed to stay
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Post by manmarking on May 27, 2017 18:11:22 GMT
Hurting too many precious feelings, Rog. Feelings trump facts & reality nowadays... Now go click my link in the SJW's thread & watch the video with that professor bloke in it The whole thread is full of feelings, most of them fairly right-wing, yer numpty The post was binned for legal reasons I assume.
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Post by manmarking on May 24, 2017 19:38:45 GMT
Valiant efforts mate, but todge is another one of these who's only interested in using the tragedy for political point-scoring and racist virtue signalling. The irrelevant two-year-old link about Corbyn and the total absence on this thread of any kind of sympathy/respect/RIP/whatever for the victims is both pathetic and contemptible. He bangs on about Muslim communities doing nothing...when they show they do "Oh well that's anonymous so doesn't count" then bangs on about them not condemning acts or helping the authorities...when he himself posts a vid of them doing both "Oh well i don't like the way they phrased it so it doesn't count". To try to push an agenda on this thread is nothing but fucking sick on his part! He's now posting links about Muslims in general that don't in any way even relate to the thread itself. Abhorrent really It's very poor mate yes. Ironic too, that he's criticised others for politicising the thread and being 'apologists'. Evidently thinks it's fine for him to do it. Cynical and hypocritical. Not often I agree with david70 but he's quite correct on this occasion. "Probably not the right thread."
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Post by manmarking on May 24, 2017 18:20:40 GMT
They did report him! In fact it was them and the local Muslim community reporting him (and his brother) which is why they were already known to the Security Services in the first place. That's the point me and TDC were discussing earlier Rog, even when the Muslim community DO report people "within their own ranks" the Security services still allowed him to fly out to both Libya and Syria anyway. Valiant efforts mate, but todge is another one of these who's only interested in using the tragedy for political point-scoring and racist virtue signalling. The irrelevant two-year-old link about Corbyn and the total absence on this thread of any kind of sympathy/respect/RIP/whatever for the victims is both pathetic and contemptible.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 22:16:16 GMT
No just ordinary people who don't want dicks like the EDL representing them...... Why would the EDL represent anyone who is not ultra right wing same with the UAF ultra left wing, these people are fringe lunatics however they are not murdering butchering religious fanatics as far as I am aware, on the other hand we have Islamic barbaric scum in this country who murder innocent women and children on our streets, we also have liberal soft soppy socialists attempting to excuse these atrocities by blaming western culture, the same western culture that these heathens choose to live in. RIP to all the innocents who lost their lives or who have been injured whilst enjoying a night out in Manchester.
Finally an acknowledgement that there were victims. But you're still trotting out the same tired nonsense about people 'excusing these atrocities'. I've not seen anyone other than IS do that. Certainly not on this board anyway. So leave the point-scoring and the virtue signalling out, mate. It's really not the time or place.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 21:57:42 GMT
Do you think maybe you might hold a minute's silence from posting, mate? Or better still, a day or so? It's just that this endless stream of hate and drivel is fairly fucking tiring and you've not actually shown any respect for the victims in any other way on this thread. Better late than never and all that. Not that I'm 'taking sides' because there's no side to take in my opinion, he's spot on about UAF. Where the EDL are doing their dick waving, the UAF are ready and waiting to crack some skulls (often targeting people not part of the EDL). The EDL are a waste of time. They're a bunch of fat pissed up ex football hooligans who would like nothing more than a fight with the 'darkies'; however they are also a reactionary movement and they are simply expressing their opinion. Free speech is for everyone isn't it? Not just those with the right opinions? I agree yes mate, I think UAF are daft (although - and prestwich can confirm/deny this - they weren't there were they?!) Anyhow my beef was more with carps piggybacking on a tragedy to justify his incessant racist ramblings and virtue signal his prejudices.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 21:41:38 GMT
They gathered in a group next to the Arndale today and were basically told to fuck off out of the city and not to come back. The EDL thrive off this kind of thing, it gives meaning to their hate filled lives. They could have done something useful like queued with the 100's of people giving blood but no they chose to wave banners and shout hate slogans instead..... Were the UAF thugs present in substantial numbers ? wherever you have the ultra right wing the ultra left wing are usually there to balance the situation out, were they told to fuck off out of the city and not come back ?. Do you think maybe you might hold a minute's silence from posting, mate? Or better still, a day or so? It's just that this endless stream of hate and drivel is fairly fucking tiring and you've not actually shown any respect for the victims in any other way on this thread. Better late than never and all that.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 18:10:43 GMT
It's a minority Islamic problem. Not a full blown Islamic problem. It needs the whole Islamic community to help solve it. There is no point trying to point the finger at the whole religion that would be wrong but the country must be more robust in how they handle this problem They must be prepared to target Specific Muslim groups/communities/targets etc for things like terror or the sexual stuff in Rochdale with our fear of being accused of racism. Some they will get wrong unfortunately but most they will get right. Most muslims abhor this shit and integrate and are horrified as all. Oh and religious schools of all faiths need fucking off. Completely agree on all that yes.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 11:03:21 GMT
Take the moral high ground I have read on here! Seriously fuck off with this artsy farsty love in. As a nation we are defined as the little guy who has not taken shit from anyone in defence of our realm since the William the conquer and the Viking. A thousand years of empire majesty and pride yes we have done ropey shit name a nation who hasn't . If these pricks either home or abroad what to play rough then give it too them in one night in cities like Dresden and Berlin we would have killed more innocents than we have done in these so called oppressed countries so if we can do it then to stop a monstrous regime let's start again. Ps I don't apologise if I have offended anyone at the moment as I'm sick of scum and apologists it's 2017, we've already decimated 3 or 4 muslim nations and deposed multiple middle eastern rulers, what do you propose, bomb the piles of rubble some more ? there is no western military solution to this problem. here's the problem in a nutshell: for 16 years the west has been using the "terror war" as a cover for something much deeper, for instance Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 or international terror aimed at the west, Saddam would have nothing to do with it, yet we attacked and decimated the place, it's action like these that have given credence to entities like al quada and thus helped fuel their cause, as former cia head of the bin laden unit has been saying for years now, western foreign policy is the one indispensable ally of the jihadis, they need it to survive, by fighting this parallel war of regime change alongside the "terror war" we've actually fuelled terror indirectly, this isn;t to blame anyone, it's just to show that bad policy has bad outcomes, just as the war on drugs has not helped quell drug abuse or availability. a congressman in the US, Ron Paul, advocated using a "letter of marque and reprisal" against bin laden after 9/11, this would have been the absolute correct response, narrowly go after bin laden and using private contractors, simply take him, and at that time his few hundred followers, out and come home, instead the temptation was too much for the people in washington and london, they used 9/11 for other motives and goals, regime change in the middle east and it's helped cause more terror, not less. explaining why a phenomenon appears and continues to flourish is not the same as excusing it, if bad policy has helped cause a problem then bad policy isn't going to fix it. it's got so bad now there needs to be extreme policies put in place, you cannot have people blowing up kids at concerts, action has to be taken. There needs to be a sober look at border controls even if this is homegrown, a halt in allowing people from certain regions coming in is a start, we can then redirect resources into the homegrown problem, the large majority of people coming in will be absolutely peaceful, but thats the problem, mixd in will be some who are not, and it's virtually impossible to distinguish them, so a temporary blanket ban makes sense to me. It might all be too late now though. Very good post mate.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 9:41:48 GMT
No, mumf. As I posted on the Bangkok thread, it's sadly typical of people like you to use a terrorist atrocity to score points on an Internet message board. I'll cast judgement as and when the professionals have done their job. Until then, sincere RIP and best wishes to everyone else. (Something you haven't wished I notice). Why do you think I'm so angry? Because I do care for these poor innocent victims and our once peaceful country. But its time to fight fire with fire. None of this crap about them wanting us to get wound up. Terrorists are weak cowards who are not worth prison space. Show their supporters or other potential followers what happens when you carry out these atrocities. What are you talking about, mumf? I've made it quite clear that I don't think this is the time or place for unwarranted speculation or trying to start fights or score virtue signalling points. I suggest you try a different target because I won't play your games. And while you're at it, maybe a quick RIP for the victims who aren't even cold yet, yeah? Pathetic.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 9:33:25 GMT
I'm not apologising for asking you a question mate. Jesus. What the fuck is wrong with this board today?! He doesn't openly hope they're white non-Muslim on page 3 mate, just expresses the possibility that they might be from what I can see. Your correct response should have been..sorry I didn't see it (and then argue your point more if needed) ...not 'what the fuck is wrong with this board today' ....mmmm...I wonder what could have got people's backs up. I hope it wasn't a Muslim and just a random nutter but the current feeling is that it was and you calling people posting on a message board a 'hate mob' isn't helping and is basically making you look like an apologist (not saying that you are) and it has the effect of hardening people's view points rather than them listening to you. Personally I think you are either so entrenched in your own views or just to stubborn to back down when you're in the wrong (maybe not in your viewpoint but timing) that it doesn't matter what anyone posts or responds to you - Again I might be wrong but to be honest I don't care. Mate, I'm not apologising for asking you a question. End of. Especially not one you still haven't answered. It's a message board and we live in a democracy (for the time being). Bizarre. As to your point about 'hate mob', you're quite right. However I was called a terrorist apologist on this thread for saying nothing more than: Terrible business. RIP to those killed. Let's not jump to conclusions about cause until the police have done their work.
Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/268714/men-arena-bombing#ixzz4htNrzi4tFrankly if people will take from that post that I'm a terrorist apologist, then it really doesn't make any odds what I say or how I say it. It's a pity but there you go.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 8:19:44 GMT
Who has 'hoped that he was white non Muslim' mate? The only people I've seen hoping for anything have been the usual hate mob hoping it's a Muslim. I take it you haven't read all the posts then - eggybread on page 3 mentions it. I await your apology. I'm not apologising for asking you a question mate. Jesus. What the fuck is wrong with this board today?! He doesn't openly hope they're white non-Muslim on page 3 mate, just expresses the possibility that they might be from what I can see.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 7:14:27 GMT
At the moment we're all presuming that it was a Muslim bomber, which may or may not be the case; either way it's telling that a number of posters on this thread whilst not excusing the bomber are making excuses in the possible reasons behind the attack and some even hoping that he was white non Muslim just so they can take some form of higher ground. To you people I say hang your head in shame, today is not the day, sometimes you have to let people vent. Make your arguments in the future but not today. Who has 'hoped that he was white non Muslim' mate? The only people I've seen hoping for anything have been the usual hate mob hoping it's a Muslim.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 7:06:16 GMT
Cant believe people on here are bickering on who done it....22 people have been murdered ffs probably all teenagers and children who have had their lives taken away from them....thoughts go out to all families and friends... Exactly my thoughts mate. Well said.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 6:25:15 GMT
You need a lecture on respect for the dead mate. That's what I'm saying. No dispespect for the dead from me ever on here ......EVER You've done it on this thread mate. Joking about your sad ************** delusions when there are people dead and wounded. Pathetic. You're on the wrong side of history here.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 6:21:10 GMT
Terrible business. RIP to those killed. Let's not jump to conclusions about cause until the police have done their work. Conclusions: You make me vomit you pathetic muslim terrorist apologist. Time for for me to be rude to you for a change. No, mumf. As I posted on the Bangkok thread, it's sadly typical of people like you to use a terrorist atrocity to score points on an Internet message board. I'll cast judgement as and when the professionals have done their job. Until then, sincere RIP and best wishes to everyone else. (Something you haven't wished I notice).
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 6:14:45 GMT
Typical of the right-wing shitheads to try and make light of a terrorist attack to vent their mad paranoia. Be very, very ashamed of your sad selves, Harry/carps. RIP. Don't need a lecture on personality disorder from you chum You need a lecture on respect for the dead mate. That's what I'm saying.
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 23:01:50 GMT
May has everything going for her. The Media, the money people, the odds, the polls all behind her So why the hell is she doing her best to lose this election? She's all over the place. Because she's shit mate. First real test and she's bottling it. Yet apparently she's the safe pair of hands for Brexit
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 22:59:54 GMT
Terrible business. RIP to those killed. Let's not jump to conclusions about cause until the police have done their work.
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 22:44:15 GMT
RIP. Contributed to some really great championships. Watch The Doctor, The Tornado and the Kentucky Kid if you haven't already. Top rider
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 22:41:40 GMT
Apparently, the u-turn on social care is to be paid for by taking the Winter Fuel Allowance off more pensioners! I've heard of freezing benefits but now the Tories want to freeze recipients! VOTE THE BUGGERS OUT! You are not trying to look at it from the Tories point of view. Pensioners are no longer productive,they are now only a cost. The only sensible option is to steal their assets and make sure they die as quickly as possible. Letting them freeze to death is probably the the most cost productive solution. You're forgetting that rich Tory pensioners need to live as long as possible (on private healthcare and so on)
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 22:37:02 GMT
Typical of the right-wing shitheads to try and make light of a terrorist attack to vent their mad paranoia. Be very, very ashamed of your sad selves, Harry/carps. RIP.
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 22:30:27 GMT
Media have smelled blood and really gone for May And with that that's confirmed I'm definitely voting tory She is starting to get found out, took them long enough mind you. She's toss mate. As strong and stable as the hot, liquid shit I've just abused me bog with
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 22:18:13 GMT
Media have smelled blood and really gone for May And with that that's confirmed I'm definitely voting tory You said you were voting Tory about three weeks ago you silly sod Don't make out like it's a media conspiracy that's changed your mind when a) it's not and b) your mind was fixed anyway
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Post by manmarking on May 22, 2017 19:54:19 GMT
I'm actually feeling pretty chipper. Either, May wins big, and the Left can have yet another "root and branch review" about what went wrong whilst the grown ups get on with Brexit. Or, Jezza does a bit better than expected which is a double whammy, with May winning and Corbyn, McDonut and Abbott able to justify him staying on for another 5 years. Or, Our Jeremy wins, and we all get free school food, free education, free health care, free houses, more holidays, loads of profit from the water board, a cap on the retirement age, more benefits, no tuition fees, HS2 all the way to Scotland and a nuclear free World. Happy days Plus the left on here are too busy Tory bashing to even consider the fact he can't and won't win I've said as much just above this post, yer silly sausage
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