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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 8:53:41 GMT
I said "poor people", mumf. That's of every hue and I'm aware the block included white working class residents. In fact I've heard it was over 50% Muslim but I didn't mention this specifically either. (I note it didn't offend you because you don't like Muslims). So no, I'm not saying this is a racist thing as such; I'm saying it's a classist or an elitist thing. It's companies, governments and local authorities not giving a fuck about poor people - yes, that includes the white working class - and, up to now, being allowed to get away with it. This fire involves many political issues such as housing standards for people on low income. So whether you like it or not, there's going to be some finger pointing and political wrangling. The residents aren't going to sit quietly in sports halls for several years waiting for a government inquiry to conclude. Nor are the hundreds of thousands of other tower block residents around the UK going to wait around to find out whether their homes are death traps. Nor should we expect them to. We need politicians to take decisive action now to ensure that in future, we operate a 'better safe than sorry' policy. People's lives should be valued above profit margins. Explain this mumf bit. I don't call you cunf. You have to bring me having a go at Muslims which I didn't. And I only have a problem with the ones who have a problem with the western way of life. You said poor people, then reel off the list so it was not clear. Folk shouldn't use the tragedy to have a go at whose in government though. Things happen under different governments the world over. I seem to have woken up with morning woodstein A note on the mumf thing - you called me a "pathetic muslim terrorist apologist"; I'll call you whatever the fuck I like, whenever the fuck I like I genuinely apologise if my list wasn't comprehensive enough or you felt it unrepresentative. In my defence, I didn't have time to list every creed and colour that lived in those flats - including all the many that you didn't mention either. London is a multicultural place, and the missing people appear to be predominantly non-white British. You're all for blaming those in power past and present when it's an avoidable tragedy involving Islamic fanatics attacking people. But not when it's an avoidable tragedy involving deprived ethnics living in a death trap. Lovely, if wholly unsurprising, to see you embody such restraint and calm. On this particular issue at least
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 3:43:41 GMT
It's exactly what this will be I fear. They're poor people. Refugees, asylum seekers, brown skinned people, foreigners. People in power don't care and will do anything possible to cover their own backs. Its a racist thing now is it? There wiil have been white English people affected too but you don't mention them. The Bradford City fire was negligence by the club but no political point scoring/finger pointing came from it, simply more fire safety measures. Obviously that will happen now but too late for the poor folk. I said "poor people", mumf. That's of every hue and I'm aware the block included white working class residents. In fact I've heard it was over 50% Muslim but I didn't mention this specifically either. (I note it didn't offend you because you don't like Muslims). So no, I'm not saying this is a racist thing as such; I'm saying it's a classist or an elitist thing. It's companies, governments and local authorities not giving a fuck about poor people - yes, that includes the white working class - and, up to now, being allowed to get away with it. This fire involves many political issues such as housing standards for people on low income. So whether you like it or not, there's going to be some finger pointing and political wrangling. The residents aren't going to sit quietly in sports halls for several years waiting for a government inquiry to conclude. Nor are the hundreds of thousands of other tower block residents around the UK going to wait around to find out whether their homes are death traps. Nor should we expect them to. We need politicians to take decisive action now to ensure that in future, we operate a 'better safe than sorry' policy. People's lives should be valued above profit margins.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 22:15:06 GMT
The Lawyer was the one who was involved in 2013 report for residents and family of the 6 that died similar fire Watching it too yeah mate. Kirsty Wark is giving the government a torrid time tonight. She appears genuinely outraged.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 22:10:11 GMT
Wow lawyer just said at a public enquiry the government controls what is said and people don't have a right to ask any one, but at an inquest is independent and should be the way forward, lawyer questioning what is to be hidden by so quickly calling for a public enquiry!!!!!! Quelle surprise if true.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 22:08:49 GMT
Tom PeckVerified account @tompeck Follow More Tom Peck Retweeted Tom Peck The Times says the "fire resistant" panels cost £24. The flammable £22. Making the building non-flammable would have cost £5K more. Stunned. This is the end of the age of austerity, mate. The mood everywhere is turning.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 21:36:22 GMT
It's exactly what this will be I fear. They're poor people. Refugees, asylum seekers, brown skinned people, foreigners. People in power don't care and will do anything possible to cover their own backs. Click on the two links I put up and you will see the difference I agree, I think Corbyn cares. Unlike most in power. He's campaigned on this stuff for years. Whether the inquiry will be a whitewash or not is out of his hands though.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 20:53:55 GMT
Another public inquiry ruse. It allows politicians to say we're looking into it, musn't speculate- the news moves on, people forget- mission accomplished. At least she isn't saying enough is enough without actually changing anything this time. Just reminds me of yes minister when a public enquiry was a way of burying something I hope im not write though It's exactly what this will be I fear. They're poor people. Refugees, asylum seekers, brown skinned people, foreigners. People in power don't care and will do anything possible to cover their own backs.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 20:32:02 GMT
Yea just another passing bandwagon It might be a bandwagon to you but it's actually people's lives, harry/bish. And their homes. And all their fucking stuff. Proof if any were needed that you really don't have a lot of respect for victims of disasters. Disgusting.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 19:28:44 GMT
Genuine question, Sugartits: what's made you and the other resident geniuses decide that essex is **************? who the hell is **************? A poster who's permanently banned but who's still posting under pseudonyms. Ironically, I strongly suspect he's not any of the current pseudonyms that people like Northwich are thinking of To be fair, they tend to just accuse anyone they don't agree with of being **************. It makes it easier to pretend that only one person ever disagrees with them. Fragile egos, y'know
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 17:39:24 GMT
Well, no there's nothing hypocritical there. But that's because you've become somewhat more nuanced since writing: "... it's fair to say ... from watching the video that sprinklers inside the building would not have prevented the disaster ... why people are raising that as a response to the disaster is beyond me. Well, no it's not. It's the typical wanker politician response ..."and U-turned to: "Maybe sprinklers is the way forward. Maybe something else. Let's act on evidence and expert direction. Not guesswork."You are one tedious pedant aren't you. The point is emphatically the same. You sound like one of those wanker politicians grasping at straws and deflecting wherever possible. Of course, in reality you are just a wanker. I'm done with your shite. The point isn't the fucking same at all and you well know it. You just don't have the gumption to admit when you're wrong. Just like so many other rent-a-gobs on here. And in spite of your endless piety about keeping things civil and sensible on this board, you descend into name-calling at the first sign of difficulty with no provocation. Duly noted. And pathetic.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 15:16:53 GMT
As ive said before the fit clogging up the NHS also with injuries, breaks, cruciate's etc. and yes these are life style choices as well and yes they cost the NHS billions too so get off your high horse Seriously **************, how many people clog up the NHS with sports injuries compared to unhealthy lifestyles, you know that is absurd, go down A&E on a Friday or Saturday night, is it people with sports injuries clogging it up or drunks with injuries from flling, fighting etc. what about the police stations, is it sports people in the cells or drunks/drug addicts ? How many people are type 2 diabetic from unhealthy choices ? It's 9 %, nearly 1 in 10 people and the majority are from lifestyle choices, how much is that a burden on the NHS purse strings compared to somebody having a quick sports injury ? Genuine question, Sugartits: what's made you and the other resident geniuses decide that essex is **************?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 15:13:18 GMT
For the third time. No one is saying that fire extinguishers, sprinkler systems or whatever could have prevented the fire. Simply that the track record of health and safety appears very poor and points to a "profits over people" mindset. It also seems hypocritical to demand on the one hand that people wait for an official verdict before casting judgement, whilst on the other deciding before any official verdict that sprinklers aren't a legitimate response to the disaster. People are raising the issue because sprinklers might at least have bought time for more people to escape. Doesn't seem that wild a suggestion to me but anyway Here's the thing. Put a load of sprinklers in. Another fire. More catastrophic deaths. Folk then ask why didn't the sprinklers save any lives. Answer because they were installed because an arsehole decided we needed action and this was deemed, without evidence, to be the action we should undertake. Maybe sprinklers is the way forward. Maybe something else. Let's act on evidence and expert direction. Not guesswork. Nothing hypocritical there. Well, no there's nothing hypocritical there. But that's because you've become somewhat more nuanced since writing: "... it's fair to say ... from watching the video that sprinklers inside the building would not have prevented the disaster ... why people are raising that as a response to the disaster is beyond me. Well, no it's not. It's the typical wanker politician response ..."and U-turned to: "Maybe sprinklers is the way forward. Maybe something else. Let's act on evidence and expert direction. Not guesswork."
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 13:36:21 GMT
Yes and that's the problem that's why up and down the country checks are being made today but I cant understand here why this morning I saw them still cladding houses until this issue has been checked!! Too early to stop work - they have to find the cause of escalation of the fire. It's possible, assuming the cladding is the cause of the disaster, that there were specific issues in the material used at Grenfell Tower or possibly the installation. I think it's fair to say though from watching the video that sprinklers inside the building would not have prevented the disaster seeing how the building seemed to be engulfed from the outside. So why people are raising that as a response to the disaster is beyond me. Well, no it's not. It's the typical wanker politician response - propose action regardless of whether that action is in anyway meaningful to the issue at hand. For the third time. No one is saying that fire extinguishers, sprinkler systems or whatever could have prevented the fire. Simply that the track record of health and safety appears very poor and points to a "profits over people" mindset. It also seems hypocritical to demand on the one hand that people wait for an official verdict before casting judgement, whilst on the other deciding before any official verdict that sprinklers aren't a legitimate response to the disaster. People are raising the issue because sprinklers might at least have bought time for more people to escape. Doesn't seem that wild a suggestion to me but anyway
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 13:05:20 GMT
It mentions giving it the 'fresher modern look' but if you had carry on reading yo may have seen this section: - Internally, a new, more efficient communal heating system and bespoke smoke extract and ventilation system were fitted. The works achieved a BREEAM Good rating and Rydon helped the client secure eco funding grants. I assume this is where any investigation will be looking into. A one-minute basic linguistic analysis demonstrates that at the time of launch, there are six mentions of aesthetics in that press release: 1) remodelling 2) Improved spaces 3) façades 4) Fresher, modern look 5) Remodeling 6) lifted the external appearanceAnd three mentions of practical improvements to people's homes: 1) improvements inside people’s homes 2) more efficient communal heating system 3) bespoke smoke extract and ventilation systemNot conclusive by any means, but this is one indication of where the priorities for the refurbishment lay. Now the block has burnt to a crisp with a catastrophic loss of life, I note they're bigging up the practical improvements a lot more. PS. I'm not **************, Sugartits
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 10:09:22 GMT
Do you not think that residents groups of the tower have the right to vent their displeasure when 120 homes are burnt to a crisp with a large loss of life? After they've been warning of the risks of exactly such an event for years? How long does decency require them to wait before feeling angry and talking about it? The Tories on here are every bit as guilty of politicising this event by calling for a blanket ban on discussing very serious housing issues which will likely embarrass the Tory party. But which nevertheless affect thousands of other poor families across the country. I read some of their blogs yesterday and none of what I read relates to the specific circumstances of how the fire escalated so quickly out of control yesterday. Those blogs addressed issues with things like signage, functional fire extinguishers, access, fire hazards etc. So it is dangerously misleading for them to say "We told you so" when what they said has not been shown (yet) to be material in yesterday's tragedy. What happened yesterday, from what I've read, is therefore not "exactly such an event" as they warned against.. As mentioned, if this turns out to be a disaster caused by landlord negligence then suitable actions can be taken against them (and others as appropriate), but if it's a wider issue related to inadequate building regulations (which seems more likely) then a different set of actions are likely. That is why it's best to wait and see what investigators discover happened. On the other hand - let's blame the evil Tories. That feels so much better doesn't it. I haven't seen anyone saying "I told you so". I've seen people understandably exasperated that warnings about their homes - not yours, not mine - weren't heeded. . And nobody is suggesting that condemned fire extinguishers or anything like that is to blame for this scenario. Simply that a cavalier attitude to the health and safety of some 600 deprived folks existed amongst the very people who are paid to look after their housing. I'm not blaming the Tories for the fact someone's fridge exploded or whatever it was that caused this. But their actions (or lack of) on housing since being in power will come back to haunt them. And whether you find it tasteful or not, I'm afraid people will remain angry that their homes have just been burned down, and their neighbours have died. Seemingly totally avoidably.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 8:47:39 GMT
Company that was paid £2.6million to install deadly cladding on Grenfell Tower collapsed last year owing £1million Cladding on deadly tower block was carried out by Harley Facades for £2.6m linkThe business went bust in 2015, shortly after the work, owing creditors more than £1million. It was bought by another of Mr Bailey’s firms, Harley Facades, based in Crowborough, East Sussex. The businessman, 58, boasts of more than 25 years “practical experience” as a specialist curtain walling contractor. At their East Sussex home yesterday Mrs Bailey, 56, denied any knowledge of Harley Curtain Wall or its work at Grenfell Tower. linkBig question on BBC on building materials used in cladding The cladding does look like the critical factor in how this fire spread so devastatingly. Of course best to let the fire investigation officers get on with their investigation pdq and confirm what happened - because there will be thousands of folk living in recently clad tower blocks across the country worried this morning. What we don't need is the grandstanding we saw yesterday - from politicians who should know better or protest groups saying "I told you so" looking to push their own agendas. Or for, that matter, from posters on this message board. Reading this thread yesterday one would have been confused as whether the fire was a consequence of Tory evil or God's will. Sometimes, well all the time, it's best to wait for facts to emerge before jumping to judgement. Do you not think that residents groups of the tower have the right to vent their displeasure when 120 homes are burnt to a crisp with a large loss of life? After they've been warning of the risks of exactly such an event for years? How long does decency require them to wait before feeling angry and talking about it? The Tories on here are every bit as guilty of politicising this event by calling for a blanket ban on discussing very serious housing issues which will likely embarrass the Tory party. But which nevertheless affect thousands of other poor families across the country.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 7:37:40 GMT
They said on the news it was also done to help keep flats warmer as they got really cold. Yes I understand that, I get involved in EU EPBD (Energy Performance of Building Directives) inspections on buildings and also the insurance inspections with Tokio Marine, I was answering spiththedogs comment about it being put on so it looks nice for the Toffs. Which seems to be supported by this press release from Rydon last year. www.rydon.co.uk/news/rydon-lands-grenfell-tower-refurbishment-The main focus of both Rydon and Cllr Paget Brown - in July 2016 at least - appeared to be the aesthetic of the building.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 7:23:18 GMT
youve obviously got an agenda so it's not worth discussing, looking at your post above about Toffs. Maybe the people inside the flats wanted it to look nice as well, rather than the cheaply thrown up 50's concrete towers, I saw quite a few done up in Portsmouth, no Toffs as you call them, around that area. I am repeating what is being said on the streets around that area, and what has been said for some time....and yes there is an agenda....to be living in secure housing under the pressure of "the London clearances" a policy that is geared towards satisfying rich investors. Only last November, the Grenfell Action Group warned of “dangerous living conditions” and said: “It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO.” they were probably written off as having an agenda too You can guarantee that these will be luxury flats in a few years, another phase of a social cleansing policy that has been going on for years now, and that is geared towards satisfying the desires of an elite group of people, call them what you want. So yes, there is an agenda and there needs to be an agenda. Without agendas things don't change and show me someone on this message board who doesn't have one! Good post mate.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 14, 2017 22:20:58 GMT
Private health care works well? Bankrupting people who can't afford the bills or insurance. Denying people care that could help them because their insurance doesn't cover it or they've capped their cost amounts. Paying 1,000s in fees before insurance actually takes over the costs. People putting off getting help because of the worries of paying for it leading to complications down the line. The idea that someone is getting rich off the backs of people being ill and dying is horrific and medieval. Average Joe pays about £2,000 a year in NI towards all worker benefits, pension and NHS. Even less if self employed. In America costs are an average of £4,500 just for their equivalent health care, no extra benefits. Don't be mental and wish away the best thing we have in this country. This really isn't the best thing we have in this country. Our NHS is not the envy of the world. I've had operations with the NHS and thought it was fine but I've had BUPA in the past and treatments via works health insurance and it's loads better than the NHS, shorter waiting times, quicker scans etc, etc. If you're just regurgitating scare stories from the US system then we're not on the same page. You're cutting a lonely figure on here these days, todge Is fyd still on the smelling salts?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 14, 2017 22:18:19 GMT
Don't be silly, Rog. The far-left 'won' so it was a perfectly acceptable election with no Russian hacking whatsoever... It's not like they had fucking hammer & sickle signs about the place or anything Fuck me! Have you checked your own avatar lately, mate?!
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Post by manmarking on Jun 14, 2017 13:26:57 GMT
Devastating. I have the awful feeling this is one of those ones where the dead toll will suddenly leap from the current 6 in to 3 figures. 500 people in the block, I mean how many could have escaped from the top half of the building? It's just heart breaking. My fear too mate yes. RIP to everyone who perished and thoughts to all the families involved. One potential glimmer of hope is that according to a number of news outlets, many families are apparently Muslim and were awake at the time it started due to Ramadan. Many were apparently therefore able to escape and alert their neighbours on the way out. Let's hope that's true.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 13, 2017 22:06:46 GMT
Diane Abbott has revealed she has Type 2 diabetes and it was the disease that forced her to take a break from the election campaign. “During the election campaign, everything went crazy - and the diabetes was out of control, the blood sugar was out of control,” she told the Guardian, saying that she was badly affected after facing six or seven interviews in a row without eating enough food. Labour's shadow home secretary said she was diagnosed two years ago. “It is a condition you can manage. I am doing that now and I feel ready to get back to work," she added. what a fcukin pisser it's a condition you can manage she can't manage simple maths FFS. She can manage to be the first ever black woman MP (which is why you hate her). She can also manage an extra 10,000 majority and a degree from Cambridge. You still can't even manage to construct a sentence in writing
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Post by manmarking on Jun 13, 2017 22:02:04 GMT
Here we go folks this is the reason for her performances🤔 Type 2 diabetes nothing to do with her weight I suppose, type 1 dyed in the wool racist thick bigot nailed on, not sure that would hamper a Labour cabinet member though. Fucking lol! If she's a type 1 dyed in the wool racist thick bigot, what does that make you, carps? Weapons grade?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 13, 2017 20:25:54 GMT
You're clearly upset todge, but there's nothing any of us can do about it I'm afraid. If you feel this strongly, why not write to Labour?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 13, 2017 17:03:11 GMT
You can just say all you like out of context mate. Wonderful how the only people wanting Corbyn to resign now are the ones who've been saying for two years how not afraid of him they are. As I've posted before, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." (M. Gandhi) We're somewhere between points three and four now. Enjoy
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Post by manmarking on Jun 12, 2017 21:16:00 GMT
I've no idea of his first interview, I said first thing I saw. i do remember the exact words on the bus... "we send the eu £350million a week Lets fund our NHS instead" repeat....."LETS FUND OUR NHS INSTEAD" doesnt say let's spend £350million a week on the NHS does it? anyone that thought that probably wasn't eligible to vote in the first place ......I'd hope So in your mind that is not a misleading statement. OK! To be fair mate, there were craven lies told on both sides of the referendum. It was a very negative, nasty campaign from both sides. Bashing refugees, making up numbers out of thin air. All very cynical stuff. And if Remain had won, there'd be just as much of a case for saying we'd been mislead and there should be a rerun
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Post by manmarking on Jun 12, 2017 21:06:04 GMT
Probably the reason Blair/Brown didn't have a Referendum is because you run the risk of getting a daft answer..a bit like unnecessary general elections. Yes, you're a Tory! You've consistently posted pro-Tory posts for as long as I can remember? All, this I'm not a Tory is bollox. How many times have you you voted for other parties and which ones? Not content with lecturing everyone in a sanctimonious manner, you're now so presumptive that you think you can lecture a long time poster on his own political beliefs Unbelievable! How arrogant can you get ? ps when did you drop the second "L" out of your surname ? To be fair mate, Northwich has never expressed any political opinions other than pro-Tory ones on here. His claim that he's not a Tory does therefore look a bit odd
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Post by manmarking on Jun 11, 2017 10:35:55 GMT
It was naughty to waste hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money on her own hubris while there are still thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets, wasn't it. We're all in it together, apparently Well shell be out on the street's soon pity is her streets are made of gold Wheat actually, I believe mate
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Post by manmarking on Jun 11, 2017 10:23:41 GMT
Teresa Mays real naughty moment It was naughty to waste hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money on her own hubris while there are still thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets, wasn't it. We're all in it together, apparently
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Post by manmarking on Jun 11, 2017 10:10:51 GMT
So you were wrong as well then. Well, with only 10 Duppers needed to form a strong and stable coalition, no I'm not wrong yet Although if anyone can fuck up that relatively straightforward task, it's your beloved Theresa
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