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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 21:28:01 GMT
Any evidence to support that mate? Any evidence to support that i am your mate? No. To support your claim that Momentum whips up young kids against older folk in direct contrast to Corbyn himself?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 21:20:40 GMT
In fairness, Jeremy Corbyn has quite emphatically not tried to whip up young kids against older folk either. Every speech I've seen him give, he quite clearly talks about young and old working together. There's misinformation coming from many angles right now. he leaves that to momentum Any evidence to support that mate?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 21:12:22 GMT
First time you've acknowledged it was probably avoidable. You're making progress. Like it or not, the FBU represents fire brigades. Personally, I'll not be accusing them of playing politics until we know more about the ins and outs of the firefighting phase of this disaster. At this point, all we know is all the first responders showed great bravery. You need people to state the obvious to you says a lot about you really, until they know the cause of the fire its simply not possible to say what is too blame so to say it is due to the cuts is blindingly obvious they are playing politics. No it says a lot more about you than me, fyd. You're more interested in defending your political party than anything else. Even the right wing media outlets aren't casting the aspersions or spreading the innuendo you are.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 21:04:35 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , God knows where this ends. We all have blood on our hands, but the baby boomers have more. They grew up with having everything go their way. I'm not saying that they didn't do anything good, cause they did loads. However, Whilsts some where doing good, some where taking advantage of liberalised laws & becoming big Billy B%!!%#&$. This fire got out of control. How do you fancy Brexit could get out of control, cause it will. In fairness, Jeremy Corbyn has quite emphatically not tried to whip up young kids against older folk either. Every speech I've seen him give, he quite clearly talks about young and old working together. There's misinformation coming from many angles right now.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:51:38 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. If you can show any evidence that Labour operatives are directing mobs to storm council offices or handing out placards with that message on them, then I quite agree. That's totally out of order. Especially at this sensitive time. Do you have any evidence I can see please?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:47:43 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. Funnily enough it was only earlier this evening that I was going to make a post saying that I'll give it untill the end of the year untill some far-left nutjob commits an act of terrorism in this country. This 'Corbynsim' (For want of a better word) is getting seriously out-of-hand. They're throwing around these words like 'divisive', 'hatred', 'intolerant' & 'Nazis', whilst simultaneously being the most hate-filled, intolerant, fascists this country has ever seen. So Jeremy Corbyn supporters are the most hate-filled, intolerant, fascists this country has ever seen? Ever? Really? You're off your rocker.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:45:01 GMT
Wrong. You cast doubt on the Fire Brigades Union leaders, you cast doubt on fire brigades. The clue as to who the leaders represent is in the name of the union. No misrepresentation on my part. Just you still prioritising bashing Labour - and anyone, even emergency responders - who dare to question the status quo or suggest that this event might have been avoidable. More utter horseshite from you, it's pretty obvious this will have been avoidable if different decisions had been made. I've watched an interview with one of the firefighters who went in, most are still too upset to talk about it, he's talking about the victims they couldn't save the FBU are trying to link this to cuts for political ends before the cause has even been established. First time you've acknowledged it was probably avoidable. You're making progress. Like it or not, the FBU represents fire brigades. Personally, I'll not be accusing them of playing politics until we know more about the ins and outs of the firefighting phase of this disaster. At this point, all we know is all the first responders showed great bravery.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:14:35 GMT
Now you cast innuendo about the integrity of the first responders. What was it you said earlier about 'just when you thought they couldn't get any lower', or whatever it was? No I cast doubt on the FBU leaders using this for political ends, a typical snide misrepresentation by you. I notice on virtually any thread you contribute next to nothing except snidey comments, it gets very boring which is why so few people bother with you. Wrong. You cast doubt on the Fire Brigades Union leaders, you cast doubt on fire brigades. The clue as to who the leaders represent is in the name of the union. No misrepresentation on my part. Just you still prioritising bashing Labour - and anyone, even emergency responders - who dare to question the status quo or suggest that this event might have been avoidable.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:05:34 GMT
I'm guessing that's as close to an apology as I'm going to get It's nowhere near that I'm afraid
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:46:38 GMT
The fact that Gavin Barwell is all you've discussed on this thread, yes. That's still an incorrect fact. All I've done on this thread is asked what the question was which Essex said he "refussed" to answer. It was a simple question, nothing to do with politics. So as I said, nice try. Righto.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:38:57 GMT
Yes that's the one. Gavin Barwell. Not trying anything. Just stating a fact. What 'fact'? The 'fact' that I never mentioned anything about the person in question and only enquired what question he'd been asked? The fact that Gavin Barwell is all you've discussed on this thread, yes.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:37:47 GMT
Still not a word of sympathy...
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:36:23 GMT
From the mayer report you like to quote £23.5 million budget gap inherited from Mayor Johnson Recommendation 2: The LFB and the Mayoralty should continue to monitor performance data closely, to be ready to mitigate any unacceptable negative impacts arising from cuts in frontline resources made by Mayor Johnson and to address any changes in demand. Among other things, monitoring could be focused on adverse trends in fire deaths, the ability of the LFB to attend multiple incidents and FRU attendance times. So has the Mayor not been monitoring properly or are the FBU lying by trying to bring cuts into it ? It's only after the fire that this has been bought up. Now you cast innuendo about the integrity of the first responders. What was it you said earlier about 'just when you thought they couldn't get any lower', or whatever it was?
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:33:49 GMT
Every post of yours would be gone for starters. You've only discussed the reputation of individual politicians on here. I'm not sure you can dissociate politics from social housing policy if I'm honest. But it wasn't me that first called for that. Go tell it to fyd and others. Eh? I haven't discussed any politician on this thread, baring when I asked Essex what question someone was asked. Nice try though. Yes that's the one. Gavin Barwell. Not trying anything. Just stating a fact.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:26:59 GMT
Still more bothered about smearing Jeremy Corbyn than thinking about the victims. Still trying to politicise the tragedy. Zzzźzzzz And still.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:26:10 GMT
Still more bothered about smearing Jeremy Corbyn than thinking about the victims. Still trying to politicise the tragedy. If you wanted to take all the politics out of this thread & have it soley talking about the victims, well, it'd be about half-a-dozen posts long. Every post of yours would be gone for starters. You've only discussed the reputation of individual politicians on here. I'm not sure you can dissociate politics from social housing policy if I'm honest. But it wasn't me that first called for that. Go tell it to fyd and others.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 18:54:28 GMT
yep Rupert myers who works for the torygraph! The Sun, Mirror, Guardian were all saying it was garbage the telegraph just referenced of of jezza's besties. Still more bothered about smearing Jeremy Corbyn than thinking about the victims. Still trying to politicise the tragedy.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 18:50:51 GMT
More deflection. No one has blamed either of those people for the fire. Did any policy decisions increase the number of casualties? Or allow inappropriate construction materials to be used? Does the previous Labour administration carry any blame? There are loads of searching questions that need answering in the full light of day. What is scandalous is that the building - for whatever reason - was unfit for human habitation. Profits appear to have been put before lives. Victims deserve some initial answers very quickly. And people living in similar buildings need whatever is required to bring their homes up to standard even more quickly. deflection from what? i havent seen the news so didnt realise the inquiry has been completed already and the report issued. people slagging off May for not visiting the victims and then saying things need to be done quickly, as Ive said elsewhere do people think she was at home watching daytime tv and not holding meetings/discussions about this? If she'd been wandering around hospitals people would slag her off for not getting on with sorting things out quickly Right. I'm not really that arsed about Theresa May if I'm honest. For the record, I don't think she's handled this terribly well and I think this will precipitate the end of her reign but anyway. The more pressing concern, as I've said in other posts, is to help victims, answer their questions and bring other similar homes up to standard quickly.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 18:25:36 GMT
Let's take a wild guess where you've had that story from www.order-order.com/2017/06/16/corbynistas-peddle-grenfell-d-notice-fake-news/amp/Not websites with close links to Labour. Any more than any media outlet that gets tip offs from people in the Labour party. Including dear old Guido. Why are you more bothered with attacking Corbyn than you are with discussing the victims and those living in similar housing, fyd? It's almost as if you're politicising the issue. Thanks for your interest and more proof of what I was saying but here is where I got the information from Still spinning away. You'll go dizzy.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 17:31:01 GMT
He's wanted power for 40 years and will do just about anything to get it. I knew Labour would jump on this; they can't resist it. Some big supporters and websites with close links have been spreading fake news re D-Notices on the number of deaths, each time you think they've hit rock bottom they crash on through and keep going lower. Let's take a wild guess where you've had that story from www.order-order.com/2017/06/16/corbynistas-peddle-grenfell-d-notice-fake-news/amp/Not websites with close links to Labour. Any more than any media outlet that gets tip offs from people in the Labour party. Including dear old Guido. Why are you more bothered with attacking Corbyn than you are with discussing the victims and those living in similar housing, fyd? It's almost as if you're politicising the issue.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 17:14:42 GMT
For anyone to be saying it's May or Boris' fault at this point is just plain daft. Nail and head More deflection. No one has blamed either of those people for the fire. Did any policy decisions increase the number of casualties? Or allow inappropriate construction materials to be used? Does the previous Labour administration carry any blame? There are loads of searching questions that need answering in the full light of day. What is scandalous is that the building - for whatever reason - was unfit for human habitation. Profits appear to have been put before lives. Victims deserve some initial answers very quickly. And people living in similar buildings need whatever is required to bring their homes up to standard even more quickly.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 15:35:03 GMT
You're in no position to criticise mate. You endlessly politicise tragedies when it suits your agenda. Besides, this is an inherently political issue and people in similar housing need some action taking now to avert similar tragedies. Now as in now. Not after a few years once a report is published. The previous Labour government has awkward questions to answer too, if that's of any consolation to you. "Endlessly politicise tragedies" Cobblers. Name them. I don't need your consolation. Just you and Essex et al to stop posting absolute bullshit just because it fits your nasty Leftist agenda. Last London Tower block fire 2009 under Labour. Report published 2013! Khan commissioned a report last year from Anthony Mayer which doesn't call for more funding for the fire service. . Caroline Flint made Mayer an ombudsman back in 2009 for social housing. Labour started Oftenant to assist in social housing matters. How'd that worked out? The new Labour MP for Kensington was a local councillor sitting on the KCTMO and local Fire Advisory Committee. She blames the contractors. The council, housing association, contractors, sub contractors, building plans and regs, material manufacturers, Architects etc etc will all have to submit documents to the coroner and the judge lead inquiry. For anyone to be saying it's May or Boris' fault at this point is just plain daft. So far today, you’ve laid into firefighters and sworn at me for finding it annoying that so many poor folk lived in a death trap and have just died or been displaced needlessly. Now you’re calling me a ‘nasty leftist’ because I’ve said I’d like poor people to be able to live in safe, dignified accommodation. By extension, you’re saying the many tower block residents around the UK who are voicing that view are ‘nasty leftists’ too. That includes people who survived Grenfell Tower - people who you’ve barely mentioned, incidentally. I can only assume because you think that trying to shout down any awkward questions whatsoever to a Tory government is a more pressing concern. I’ve even agreed that previous Labour administrations have difficult questions to answer too, but evidently that’s not enough. Personally I think you should take a step back and show a modicum of concern for the victims but that’s up to you. Carry on making yourself look a callous, deranged little attack dog if you prefer. I’ll wear your insults with great pride because frankly I’d be disappointed if I agreed with you on this issue In terms of politicising tragedies, let’s see. Off the top of my head … There’s using IRA bombings to try to provide political advantage to Theresa May. For two years. There’s your post above (ironically), where you’re scurrying about desperately trying to protect your Great Leader and her only electable potential replacement by deflecting blame towards various Labour figures. There’s your frequent criticism of immigration and security policies in the direct aftermath of terror attacks. I could go on but, well, I can’t really be arsed. It’s a nice day and we’re not going to agree, are we
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 12:39:31 GMT
Admin please remind us what you class as abusive Well whatever crap you were spouting earlier because my replies to you have gone. Just stop your vile false politicking until the report is published. You're in no position to criticise mate. You endlessly politicise tragedies when it suits your agenda. Besides, this is an inherently political issue and people in similar housing need some action taking now to avert similar tragedies. Now as in now. Not after a few years once a report is published. The previous Labour government has awkward questions to answer too, if that's of any consolation to you.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 12:31:42 GMT
There is a case to answer, and there may be some truth in what you say (Although if someone offered to pay me 90k out of the public purse to render my house I'd wouldn't be feeling hard done by) But Corbyn was trying to make political capital out of this before the facts were known, before the dead were counted. And that was shocking. The Times are reporting this morning, the tower block was 'rendered' with panels that were not fire resistant and cost £22. Fire resistant panels cost £24. An estimated £5,000 pounds was saved in doing this - a saving made to keep profits high, but resulted in the death of an estimated 100 people (likely more). The facts were known and have been known for some time. The risks were repeatedly raised by the tenants groups over a year ago. This is not a single case and individual incident, tower blocks across London are in similar unsafe and dangerous conditions. This is inherently political. It's about class and power. Working-class housing in inner London, in particular housing which has a large ethnic minority occupancy, is dangerous and unfit for living. This was known before this disaster, and has been a subject of campaigns for decades. Labour and Conservative councils in London have failed to act, working in conjunction with profit-driven landlords. Excellent post mate.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 12:28:15 GMT
the tories are the biggest threat to all of us and it needs to be said. enemies of the people and its a disgrace the press aren't fucking destroying them over the cuts that are killing people. I can totally understand people been drawn in by corbyn but..... Have a good look at Greece today that'll give you an idea of what a corbyn's Britain would look like. its fucking fantasy land. and no the tories aren't the long term answer Fraise, Greece is the way it is because of a very different set of economic policies to the ones Corbyn is advocating. The EU doesn't like his economics - as evidenced by them inflicting the most severe programme of austerity in history on Greece
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 11:31:28 GMT
This is the end of the age of austerity, mate. The mood everywhere is turning. Even bigger I reckon. I think they made a huge mistake in 2010 making the poor pay the price because it's made a target of the whole project which still largely progressed under New Labour. This fire encapsulates so many of the negatives of the state shrinking policies of the last 30 years, no wonder they want to kick it into the long grass. Fortunately, they can barely control the narrative any more and patience is very thin. Yes it's weird how political change is so often embodied by particular events that people become especially struck by. Eg. piles of rubbish in the 70s, the poll tax riots, Black Wednesday, Northern Rock etc. I strongly suspect this is such an event. It's a tragedy that illustrates the rampant inequalities of our society and the brutal realities of decades of neoliberalism. Profits above people. It's illustrated this in a way that's so stark and so horrific that it's now impossible for most people to ignore.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 11:21:07 GMT
My fear too mate yes. RIP to everyone who perished and thoughts to all the families involved. One potential glimmer of hope is that according to a number of news outlets, many families are apparently Muslim and were awake at the time it started due to Ramadan. Many were apparently therefore able to escape and alert their neighbours on the way out. Let's hope that's true. With around 120 still missing and no hope of finding any further survivors you have to think we are in to 3 figures here Hopefully not mate but not looking good no.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 10:57:40 GMT
I quite agree. But it's a bit late now that you've spent the past two years using IRA bombings to discredit the leader of the opposition Nice strawman but it was Corbyn's (and Dianne Abbott and John McDonnell) support for the IRA that was bought up, to this day Jeremy Corbyn remains the only person to claim that he was trying to play a part in the peace process. Nope. The Tory party and you spent the entire election campaign using dead bodies to try and get May elected. And the 18 months before that using dead bodies to gain political capital. It didn't work, and you're a hypocrite.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 10:21:09 GMT
link councillor blames residents Something quite distasteful about using dead bodies to try and get elected. I quite agree. But it's a bit late now that you've spent the past two years using IRA bombings to discredit the leader of the opposition
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 10:17:48 GMT
Now saying that the cuts to fire stations in London and the savage cuts to public services may have been a factor (from the fire brigade union) The Fire Brigade Union who's battle bus Corbyn used for his Labour Leadership campaigns. Having a go at the emergency services risking life and limb for 12+ hour shifts to save people from a towering inferno. While you sit in comfort miles away. Unsurprising.
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