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Post by dwr17477 on Mar 21, 2009 1:04:13 GMT
I may get wheeled on this subject but has anyone been able to see this film yet? I know it's not out till next week but maybe someone managed to blag a ticket for the premier the other night. Anyway, my question is will Stoke City be mentioned/featured at all in this film bearing in mind that the first league game of the season was against Clough's Leeds United in a match we won 3 - 0? Or will it be swept under the carpet or we only won because of Delap's long throw(!) or we cheated? Anyone any ideas? I would have thought that the match would have been quite pivotal in Clough's short reign as LUFC's manager.
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Post by fallingandlaughing on Mar 21, 2009 1:09:28 GMT
If I remember correctly the David Peace book doesn't detail the Stoke game much, so not sure if it will be featured. Apparently the film is quite different from the book so who knows? Really looking forward to the film. If anyone's interested I recently wrote about it in my blog, here: fallingnlaughing.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-screen-damned-united.html
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Post by Menorca Stokie on Mar 21, 2009 10:20:18 GMT
Sorry falling and laughing but the book did make quite a big thing of the first game. It was about the lead up to the game and the game itself. Mr Clough was quite condesending if I remember correctly.
" Out of the office, his office, down the corridor and around the corner and down the tunnel on onto the pitch, his pitch" ;D For those who have read the book, for those that have not then get it and read it, the film simply can't be as good.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 10:24:34 GMT
I'm a bit worried about the film. The trailer makes it seem like it has a far lighter tone than the book and portrays Cloughie as a kind of court jester. If that's the case they'll have totally missed the point of the book.
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Post by KevinWhimper on Mar 21, 2009 10:32:25 GMT
As I wasn't on the planet in those days, what were everyone's thoughts on Cloughie from a Stoke perspective. Like everyone knows Fergie is a good manager, but he is an utter twatwipe, just wondering if people liked Cloughy considering his arrogance?
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Post by Menorca Stokie on Mar 21, 2009 10:34:38 GMT
I'm not sure if they will be able to portray his thoughts and the flicking frm his time at Derby and Leeds successfully.
I very rarly enjoy films that I've read the book of first but I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 10:37:51 GMT
Like everyone knows Fergie is a good manager If you believe trebor63 he's just been lucky for the last 22 years ;D
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Post by fallingandlaughing on Mar 21, 2009 10:40:34 GMT
Sorry falling and laughing but the book did make quite a big thing of the first game. It was about the lead up to the game and the game itself. Mr Clough was quite condesending if I remember correctly. Aye, you are right mate - been a few months since I read the book. He didn't like Stoke City
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 10:45:35 GMT
I didn't get the impression that he didn't like Stoke from reading the book (which is, after all, a fictionalised account). I just got the impression that whoever his team were playing were incidental to Clough and his ego.
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Mar 21, 2009 11:07:51 GMT
If its like the book the film is going to Damned awful too
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Post by kiwi on Mar 21, 2009 11:10:01 GMT
Sorry falling and laughing but the book did make quite a big thing of the first game. It was about the lead up to the game and the game itself. Mr Clough was quite condesending if I remember correctly. Aye, you are right mate - been a few months since I read the book. He didn't like Stoke City who does!!? we make millwall look popular ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 11:30:21 GMT
If its like the book the film is going to Damned awful too Nobody believes you've read any book ever Mart.
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Mar 21, 2009 11:32:38 GMT
Up the corridor around the corner. Thats all that book goes on about! Am I right?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 11:35:48 GMT
Up the corridor around the corner. Thats all that book goes on about! Am I right? I think you're thinking of Mills & Boon from the sounds of that. "She took him in her mouth, up the corridor, around the corner..."
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Mar 21, 2009 11:40:27 GMT
You must admit though, the book is a bit of a shitter isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 11:44:27 GMT
I really enjoyed it.
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Post by 1863 on Mar 21, 2009 12:12:31 GMT
It was always my understanding that Brian Clough and Tony Waddington were great friends. I'm sure Huddy referred to them as such in his memoir.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 22, 2009 10:30:27 GMT
When Clough was sacked at leeds Waddo invited him to come to Amsterdam with the SCFC camp for the Ajax game. Clough always had a soft spot for Stoke since that day.
Good book but not the truth.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 22, 2009 10:50:57 GMT
Clough had a lot of time for Stoke and came over to fundraise at one of Stan Mathews Foundation's functions after Stan's death Clough, unlike Fergie was widely admired for his honesty even if he was arrogant Clough fooked it up at Leeds but made two provincial clubs into giants of their time in Derby and Forest. This feat will never be repeated Best manager ever IMHO If it's true as to how the film portrays his first meeting with the Leeds players then no surprise he failed there. Clough tells the Leeds stars to take all their medals and throw them in the bin as they won them through cheating! Disappointed that the film concentrates on his failure and ignores his massive success at Forest - otherwise it looks good
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Post by emery1985 on Mar 22, 2009 10:59:48 GMT
Up the corridor around the corner. Thats all that book goes on about! Am I right? correct. shite book, might download the film... cant be any worse
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Post by Davef on Mar 22, 2009 11:00:10 GMT
In 84/85 Forest beat us 4-1 at the Vic. I think we took the lead actually, but towards the end of the game the Forest fans were goading us with "going down, going down" chants.
Cloughy got out of the dug out and started waving his arms around at the Forest fans, gesticulating them to stop.
They did!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2009 11:01:30 GMT
Disappointed that the film concentrates on his failure and ignores his massive success at Forest - otherwise it looks good So does the novel though - it's a fictionalised account of his time at Leeds with flashbacks to his success at Derby.
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Post by Cupid Stunt on Mar 22, 2009 12:05:50 GMT
The book is excellent, can one not cope with the 1st person?
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Post by deliasmith on Mar 22, 2009 12:15:04 GMT
I have just read the book; it's nearly as good as they say it is.
I am very impressed with Johnny Giles - a sentence I thought I'd never write - because he's never complained or threatened to sue over the very bad character he's given in the book (and indeed he was an absolute swine).
Stoke are mentioned quite often in the book - those were the days when we were a right good side. In fact the book includes six or seven league tables for the period Clough was at Leeds and it's possible to work out Stoke's results week by week - pretty good too!
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 23, 2009 10:44:00 GMT
It doesn't mention his success at Forest because it's about his time at Leeds. The references to Derby are relevant because thats what made him the personality he was.
Giles was more bitter than most because he had been promised the managers job when Revie left. Bremner refused to accept this and an ousider had to be brought in. And, lets face it, outsider is the most appropriate word! It all goes to show that Revie held everything together. As soon as he left it all fell apart. I was under the impression Johnny Giles threatened to sue if certain passages involving himself were not removed so they were indeed removed.
Clough is a great manager but not the greatest. His failure at Leeds and relegation at Forest were too damaging for him to hold that accolade.
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Post by Not_Nick_H on Mar 23, 2009 11:00:03 GMT
Sorry falling and laughing but the book did make quite a big thing of the first game. It was about the lead up to the game and the game itself. Mr Clough was quite condesending if I remember correctly. Aye, you are right mate - been a few months since I read the book. He didn't like Stoke City I remember him once referring to us as "Our friends from up the river". Which I thought was quite quaint. ;D
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 23, 2009 11:10:02 GMT
Clough was, if anything, even more disliked than Fergy for many years. He did a fantastic job in getting Derby County into the top division and then on to actually win the Championship. His ego was always a problem and he left 'under a cloud'. He was pretty universally disliked by all but derby fans and many of them didn't like the way he left. He also did a brilliant job at Forrest and you can't knock winning the European Cup twice.
I think that MOST people admired him as a manager and disliked him as a person and I certainly think that his ego was his undoing in the end. His own stubborness resulted in Forrest's relegation and his fude with his ex-friend and partner (Peter Taylor) added fuel to the fire.
He was an excellent manager (no where hear the greatest) and his achievements were worhty of high praise. However, Brighton, Leeds and his latter days at Forrest expoased his weaknesses and, in the transfer market, he made several horrific blunders.
All-in-all, he was a very high profile and welcome component of football history. A top manager who achieved some remarkable successes. But ultimatley flawed and not quite the GOD ythat he believed himself to be.
Incidentally, also a brilliant striker with a record second to none before retiring at a young age through injury.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 23, 2009 11:16:03 GMT
He never got over his playing career having to end early. Dealing with injured players depresed him profusely as a manager. He once said he'd have preferred never to have been a manager and had his career as a player reach his natural end. I suppose the sadness he felt over retiring partly fuelled his slide into alcoholism.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 23, 2009 11:22:37 GMT
Cloughie once said that he went to watch Gary Birtles with a view to signing him and that the half time Bovril was better than him! He still signed him though!
He also recounted how Sean Haslegrave (Stoke) told him to 'Fuck Off' and he was so impressed he signed him
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Post by carverdoone on Mar 23, 2009 11:46:11 GMT
Clough is a great manager but not the greatest. His failure at Leeds and relegation at Forest were too damaging for him to hold that accolade. Championships with two run-of-the-mill provincial teams and two European Cups. Apart from Blackburn I can't even remember a team winning the league who weren't from one of the big footballing cities. Show me anyone in the modern era who can come even close to achieving anything like this.
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