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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 15, 2009 10:43:34 GMT
Pulis, away from home sets up defensively, he did at Villa and today at Everton and found himself 2-0 down in both games, and as a result of this the side started to "go for it". Now, this makes every one think "Why didn't he set the team up like this from the start?" The answer is a simple one. Look at Villa and Everton's midfield, it's full of pace and quality that is much better than ours when they can be arsed to up the tempo. They see Stoke as a walk over, and so when 2-0 up naturally think game over and stop working allowing us to attack. That happened today for 25 minutes in the 2nd half, and the Everton players realised this and again upped the tempo finishing us off. If we start with this approach, then they will catch us out and dick us. It's a fact, we can't get possession when we're level, because our midfield is not as good as the opponents. Barry and Petrov stopped working at Villa Park, and this allowed us to pass it around. This is why we can't "go for it" from the off. What Pulis should be doing though, is starting Etherington and playin 5 across the midfield if he's going to set up defensively. 2 strikers today was pointless as Mamma, as much as I like him, did fuck all today. 2 out and out wingers in Lawrence and Ethers would have been enough to provide Beattie when on the break. This way I think we'd have not conceded two soft goals and would have been in it 2nd half. I think thats an interesting thought and it makes a change from the usual one dimensional view of things often expressed on here... It is a statement of the obvious but our team/squad is just not comparable to the majority of teams in The Prem...yet some people expect us to compete on an even playing field with them... When we have played open football away from home quite often we've been down 2-0 before you can say Gudjon Thordarson...it just isn't that simple and/or easy or we'd be doing it.. It isn't just TP that trains the team we have coaches/advisors too and they have surely studied our away games and given our dismal results a great deal of thought...obviously not enough When you don't have billions to spend then tactics/team formation/man-management/inspiration etc etc become extremely important and although TP has been slaughtered on here..if we'd managed to win 3 or 4 games away from home this season..he'd be hailed as the True Messiah... And yesterday if it wasn't for Lescotts offside goal and Tommys butter-fingers..we may have come away with all 3 points Good post Dom
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Post by tony harrison on Mar 15, 2009 11:03:17 GMT
I don't agree at all Sal. We forced Everton into having to defend in the second half because our midfield played 10 yards further up the pitch than we did in the first half. A half in which our midfield had, by playing so deep, LET Everton play in front of us and frankly we had made it easy for them. Everton didn't choose to ease off in the second half, we just finally decided to gave them a game. It could have just as easily have finished 2-2 as 3-1 IMHO. Don't agree, it was the othe way round, they were forcing us back. They didn't force us back, the ball was played back by them for the second goal and we just retreated into the box ready for a cross to come in. We should have been pushing out and playing further up the pitch, which we did second half. It should not have taken so long to do this, 5 mins into the game it could have been changed.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 15, 2009 11:36:56 GMT
I think thats an interesting thought and it makes a change from the usual one dimensional view of things often expressed on here... It is a statement of the obvious but our team/squad is just not comparable to the majority of teams in The Prem...yet some people expect us to compete on an even playing field with them... When we have played open football away from home quite often we've been down 2-0 before you can say Gudjon Thordarson...it just isn't that simple and/or easy or we'd be doing it.. It isn't just TP that trains the team we have coaches/advisors too and they have surely studied our away games and given our dismal results a great deal of thought...obviously not enough When you don't have billions to spend then tactics/team formation/man-management/inspiration etc etc become extremely important and although TP has been slaughtered on here..if we'd managed to win 3 or 4 games away from home this season..he'd be hailed as the True Messiah... And yesterday if it wasn't for Lescotts offside goal and Tommys butter-fingers..we may have come away with all 3 points Good post Dom Nobody is expecting us to compete on an even playing field, rather people just simply want to see us starting games by playing to our strengths. How anybody cannot see that we consistently give a better account of ourselves when we don't sit off teams, is totally beyond me. This just isn't true. The best football we have played away from home this season has been at Boro, where we were completely in charge for the first 30 minutes until we shot ourselves in the foot and went down to 10 men which radically changed the game. In the first half at Eastlands where we were easily the better team for virtually the whole of the first half until the defence switched off just prior to and just after half time. Second half away at St. James', second half away at Villa, and second half yesterday. People will point to the Bolton and Blackburn games and say that we went all gung ho in these games and suffered as a result, but again this isn't true. Just look at the teams that started in those games. The defence we sent out at Bolton is unbelievably poor compared to the the one that we have now, and to tell you the truth I don't remember us being particularly offensive in that game. Rather it was a pretty even match for 30 minutes without too much pressing from either side and then the flood gates were opened by a completely freak goal which was quickly followed by some rather naive defending. When Lenny and Fuller were introduced in the second half and we did go at Bolton we were a much better side. I don't see how the Blackburn game can be offered as any sort of an argument to support playing extremely defensively away from home. Again I don't remember us being particularly adventurous in that game, rather for the first 15 minutes Blackburn were so dreadful that they allowed us to have more possession than we are normally used to away from home. Remember this is a team that started with Pericard and Cresswell in it, and yet some people will still try and have you believe that we went into that match all guns blazing. Absolutely!
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Post by march4 on Mar 15, 2009 11:42:15 GMT
I know I am often out of step with some of you, but I thought we were adventurous first half. It was just that we were very sluggish (especially Tommy). We were pushing men forward unlike Villa away.
At Blackburn, Bolton and Man City we really went for it and left the defence badly exposed.
Paul is quite correct though to point out that we are thoroughly improved as a team from those games. I will be disappointed if we don't try and bully Brazil out of the game.
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Post by icelandpotter on Mar 15, 2009 12:16:26 GMT
Pulis, away from home sets up defensively, he did at Villa and today at Everton and found himself 2-0 down in both games, and as a result of this the side started to "go for it". Now, this makes every one think "Why didn't he set the team up like this from the start?" The answer is a simple one. Look at Villa and Everton's midfield, it's full of pace and quality that is much better than ours when they can be arsed to up the tempo. They see Stoke as a walk over, and so when 2-0 up naturally think game over and stop working allowing us to attack. That happened today for 25 minutes in the 2nd half, and the Everton players realised this and again upped the tempo finishing us off. If we start with this approach, then they will catch us out and dick us. It's a fact, we can't get possession when we're level, because our midfield is not as good as the opponents. Barry and Petrov stopped working at Villa Park, and this allowed us to pass it around. This is why we can't "go for it" from the off. What Pulis should be doing though, is starting Etherington and playin 5 across the midfield if he's going to set up defensively. 2 strikers today was pointless as Mamma, as much as I like him, did fuck all today. 2 out and out wingers in Lawrence and Ethers would have been enough to provide Beattie when on the break. This way I think we'd have not conceded two soft goals and would have been in it 2nd half. I was much happier losing by 2 goals yesterday whilst having a go at attacking than I would have been if we'd have gone out to defend and only lost by 1 for example.
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Post by Cityfullergoals on Mar 15, 2009 12:27:02 GMT
Some interesting observations there from both sides of the fence.
Watching the first half yesterday, it still boils down to the same old problem for me - ball retention. We just cannot keep the ball for any length of time.
On at least two occasions when hassled in midfield the ball was kept by going sideways and then backwards to Danny from where the inevitable hoof upfield materialised.
In fairness, though still in the game until the dying embers, we were only really dangeroius from set plays.
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Post by Cupid Stunt on Mar 15, 2009 14:51:26 GMT
Fullergoals I agree, if we kept the ball we'd have more posession equaling more chances, but we lose the ball easily. Which is not Pulis' fault.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 15, 2009 14:59:06 GMT
I think thats an interesting thought and it makes a change from the usual one dimensional view of things often expressed on here... It is a statement of the obvious but our team/squad is just not comparable to the majority of teams in The Prem...yet some people expect us to compete on an even playing field with them... When we have played open football away from home quite often we've been down 2-0 before you can say Gudjon Thordarson...it just isn't that simple and/or easy or we'd be doing it.. It isn't just TP that trains the team we have coaches/advisors too and they have surely studied our away games and given our dismal results a great deal of thought...obviously not enough When you don't have billions to spend then tactics/team formation/man-management/inspiration etc etc become extremely important and although TP has been slaughtered on here..if we'd managed to win 3 or 4 games away from home this season..he'd be hailed as the True Messiah... And yesterday if it wasn't for Lescotts offside goal and Tommys butter-fingers..we may have come away with all 3 points Good post Dom Nobody is expecting us to compete on an even playing field, rather people just simply want to see us starting games by playing to our strengths. How anybody cannot see that we consistently give a better account of ourselves when we don't sit off teams, is totally beyond me. This just isn't true. The best football we have played away from home this season has been at Boro, where we were completely in charge for the first 30 minutes until we shot ourselves in the foot and went down to 10 men which radically changed the game. In the first half at Eastlands where we were easily the better team for virtually the whole of the first half until the defence switched off just prior to and just after half time. Second half away at St. James', second half away at Villa, and second half yesterday. People will point to the Bolton and Blackburn games and say that we went all gung ho in these games and suffered as a result, but again this isn't true. Just look at the teams that started in those games. The defence we sent out at Bolton is unbelievably poor compared to the the one that we have now, and to tell you the truth I don't remember us being particularly offensive in that game. Rather it was a pretty even match for 30 minutes without too much pressing from either side and then the flood gates were opened by a completely freak goal which was quickly followed by some rather naive defending. When Lenny and Fuller were introduced in the second half and we did go at Bolton we were a much better side. I don't see how the Blackburn game can be offered as any sort of an argument to support playing extremely defensively away from home. Again I don't remember us being particularly adventurous in that game, rather for the first 15 minutes Blackburn were so dreadful that they allowed us to have more possession than we are normally used to away from home. Remember this is a team that started with Pericard and Cresswell in it, and yet some people will still try and have you believe that we went into that match all guns blazing. Absolutely! Good reply Paul.. Some very good points...well made An interesting and thoughtful debate so far...
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 15, 2009 15:35:22 GMT
I would say the turning point for Pulis came at the Man City away game. Huge pitch against a pacey team. We gave them a decent go at it, but they really caught us out on the break. Robinho's three goals all came from him running at an exposed defence with too much room around it. I think he had a bit of a panic after this match and decided that this can never happen again.
Maybe he thinks that the Wigan game is the blueprint for away games.
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