Big money Mama clone, or Kitson tactical rethink?

[FullerMagic]

If we go down the route of a big money Mama clone (if we can find one with his limited but unique talents), who'll continue to be the hub of our entire attacking game, are we condemning our record signing to the role of bit-part player, and ultimately to a summer exit at a knockdown price?

It's become clear that Kitson will continue to look like a square peg in a round hole if we stick with the tactical gameplan that's been drummed into the other 10 cogs of the team, with him in a role he can't function in.

For us to get any value out of him, I suppose it'll take a complete tactical rejig, with the hoof thrown largely out of the window.

So will we see big money spent on some big 6' 4" targetman who'll do an impression of Mama from January onwards, and strengthen with other players who'll come in and function as upgrades within the very strict and rigid confines of our tried-and-tested system?

Or will we go for different types of player who'll potentially get the best out of our £5.5m man, and change the way we play?

Realsitically, I suppose we'll take the option of replacing Mama with the biggest clone of him we can put our hands on, and carry on with what we're doing?

[YarnfieldStokie]

In the short term I would like us to go 4 5 1 with Tonge and Soares used as out and out wingers.
Think we will defo see him go for a Mama type player in Jan, poss on loan depending on the extent of the big guys injury.
A change of thinking has to be made tho as we dont have anyone that can play the Mama role in the current set up

[hchpotter]

It's an interesting debate. Trying to get the best out of Kitson is going to involve spending a good few quid because we need a different type of midfield. To me this would seem the most sensible approach because it could consolidate the 5 million already spent on Kitson and would mean that we have a genuine plan B when Mama comes back (assuming that he will be back before the end of the season.

DA Mama type player won't come cheap in January so it might be worth looking at a loan move

[slangking]

How much is a clone these days? Maybe if we ordered a couple we'd get one free?

[sweetandinnocent]

i'd like to see us be a bit more adventurous at home now we hav'nt got Mama, if we don't manage to get Kitson the players he needs in January, I'd like to see this team at home, when Liam is fit.


-------------------------------Sorenson--------------------------------

griffin---------shawcross--------------Abd Faye---------------------higgy

Soares---------------Diao--------------Delap------------------------Tonge

-------------------------------Lawrence------------------------------

---------------------------------Fuller-----------------------------------

Soares and tonge pushing forward at any opportunity to support liam & fuller, we should try to play more ball to feet football without mama. Lawrence could be the key.

imo now mamas out we need a couple of pacey wingers even more now so we can also get the best out of Kitson. I would not be dissapointed to see Victor Moses and Scott sinclair or even K Richardson. two of which we could probably get on loan, then spend some money on another mama type maybe Carlton cole or yes - why not Zigic?

[PONTAFCE]

I see where your coming from tony and to me that doesnt look to bad.

[bayernoatcake]

Most would go for the tactical change but will TP. I'm not hating but just being honest when I say when Mama has been out before we haven't changed so why will he now?

[Paul Spencer]

Considering that Tone put 10 mil down on the table for the signings of Ledley and Pennant during the last transfer window, then I think it's pretty safe to assume that he wasn't intending on using the long ball game as his only tactic this season.

I'd be gob smacked if he didn't have every intention of trying to bring in a couple of wide players in January, irrespective of how well the Mama role has or hasn't worked.

[bayernoatcake]

We have Soares and Tonge-mixing it up is our style not just the hoof. But we can't when Mama is not up there. Against Fulham it was a hoofest though which makes me nervy about the future because it just doesn't work without Mama.

And Paul he payed 5.5 million for Kitson and we still insisted on planting on his head like Mama was there-that's my worry.

[sweetandinnocent]

Dec 15, 2008 12:31:05 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Considering that Tone put 10 mil down on the table for the signings of Ledley and Pennant during the last transfer window, then I think it's pretty safe to assume that he wasn't intending on using the long ball game as his only tactic this season.

I'd be gob smacked if he didn't have every intention of trying to bring in a couple of wide players in January, irrespective of how well the Mama role has or hasn't worked.

agree, i beleive he did have the intention on keeping it tight and playing the long ball when away and then at home stick on the wide men i.e pennant, ledley at home. Maybe tongey and soares were really panic buys because he didnt get the two he wanted. Now as a result he's not as confident playing them both at the same time.

[MrMagic]

If he intended using wingers why did he narrow the pitch?

Again - not being a"hater", I just don't see that we would have played that much different. We've played more or less the same way ever since TP first came, we are just doing it with better players now.

[Paul Spencer]

I know what you're getting at Bayern, but I'm really struggling to believe that Pulis would have spent 10 mil on Ledley and Pennant and then instructed his team to just hoof it up to Mama.

Surely, originally, he wasn't even intending on Mama been in the starting eleven.

He dropped 5.5 mil on Kitson in the hope that he was going to bring in two quality wingers to provide him (and Ric) with the service that he knew was going to be required to get the best out of him.

For whatever reason both of his first choice wingers didn't come.

There is no doubt that Tonge and Soares were panic buys, Tonge has said recently that he was first approached by Stoke on 10pm on deadline day!

The only conclusion that I can come to as to why we are now playing hoof, is because Pulis doesn't believe that either of his last minute signings are actually good enough to perform the role of orthodox wingers, and that we are likely to score more by playing hoof.

Whether he is right or not, is of course open to debate.

However I still maintain, that on the evidence of the wingers he originally tried to sign in the summer, then there isn't any reason to believe that he wont be looking for similar players in January.

[sweetandinnocent]

MM - maybe, but Rorys throw may of been part of the reason for narrowing the pitch, it would also probably suit us better anyway using wingers, as when soares and tonge go forward, say we lost the ball then delap and diao would'nt have as much ground to cover to protect the space left and help griff and higgy close the space?

[lordb]

Between now & January - & assuming both Mama & Kitson will be out for all 3 games (& who knows into jan too,we dont usually make signings till the end of a window) - & expect TP will play the same system as he always has with Pericard alongside Fuller.

the alternative would be to play Cresswell alongside Ric which I dont think works & given TP's
change late against Fulham I suspevt TP thinks that way too.

he could of course play a different system but that seems very unlikely.

[slangking]

Dec 15, 2008 12:45:42 GMT MrMagic said:

If he intended using wingers why did he narrow the pitch?

Again - not being a"hater", I just don't see that we would have played that much different. We've played more or less the same way ever since TP first came, we are just doing it with better players now.

Most of the decent teams don't have out and out wingers, Young and Ronaldo drift all over, what they do have is attacking full backs who can actually cross a ball and also defend (before the Hoefkens lovers get started), Higginbotham has shown he can play that role with a great cross for the Albion goal, Griffin is too slow for it unfortunately.

[Paul Spencer]

Most of the decent teams don't have out and out wingers, Young and Ronaldo drift all over, what they do have is attacking full backs who can actually cross a ball and also defend

Agreed slangking

Assuming that Lenny is going to be staying with us and hopefully will regain his form in the right midfield role, then I would love to see Tone bring in an attacking right full back with real pace, however I know it is highly unlikely.

[sweetandinnocent]

A slight adjustment in tactics now may just suprise a few teams, as we have been stereotyped as the the tight hoofball game players by the maedia & pundits. We have become a bit too predictable of late

It is a risk, but if we have 2 ways main of playing it gives the other team more to think about pre-match.

worth the risk imo. Now is the perfect opportunity to freshen things up a bit.

We should'nt be looking at the current situation as a 'big' problem, we should be looking at it as an opportunity

[RAF]

Personally, I'd like us to spend a good chunk of our money on at least one decent winger.
Rather that than spunk 4 million quid on Marlon Harewood.
That way maybe we could play 4-4-2 while Mama is out injured (or as a complete alternative) and maybe play our record signing Kitson in his rightful position for more than five minutes and not as some wanky stop gap for Mama.
That way we might actually see him scoring goals like the normal amongst us know he can and has done, thus negating buying the likes of Harewood.

H

[Deleted]

Pulis doesn't play wide-midfield men as wingers, he plays them as attacking midfielders. Witness Cresswell & Lenny last season (almost no crosses what-so-ever) and even when he had Sir Peter of Hookstra, he didn't play him to whip in balls either.

IF he was lucky enough to acquire Ledley and Pennant (and I doubt he will be for £6m and a refusal to leave Liverpool, respectively) then we would play them as attacking-midfielders and not to get to the byline to whip in crosses for Kitson.

And anyway ... Kitson isn't fit ... And I'm more worried about the next four games (the winnable ones at least) than I am about what we do come 31/01 with any new signings we have made (and we will make some).

Vinny or Cresser up front at Ewood Park on Saturday? From what I saw on Satdee, I'd probably pick Vinny - but I'd do so with a very heavy heart - Vinny did look like he was up for proving 25-odd-thousand people wrong (he also looked about twice the size I remember him looking last time I saw him play ... in fact, I thought Paul Williams had come on until the commentator told me who it was).

So, until I hear different I will remain prostrated on this prayer-mat, hoping the real big-man is no where near as injured as he looked minute-3 on Saturday.


[As an aside; how fantastic we sounded howling the big fella back to his feet. Takes a special kind of crowd and player to drag a man up from the floor who is very clearly only going to be leaving on a stretcher. It was one of the three or four times this season I've had the little tingle to remind me how much I miss being at the Brit. Everyone who stood and roared Mama to his feet should be well proud of themself]

Now ... back to praying ... Where have I left those worry-beads?!



ah

[sweetandinnocent]

agree RAF, we have a goalscoer who just needs the right service, goals win games, why not spend the money on making the glove fit.

Kitson is half the jigsaw, we just need the other half then play him right up there with fuller, it sounds daft but given we get 2 good wingers, we could play kitson right up top and play fuller in the hole with balls played to his feet as he has the trickery, strength and pace to make things happen.

[RAF]

It will be fcuking sad day for Stoke when that gutless sack of useless shit Periwinkle darkens our first team again.
I now fully expect him to start at the weekend v Blackburn and score a brace.

H

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2008 13:13:28 GMT RAF said:

I now fully expect him to start at the weekend v Blackburn and score a brace.

H

I can agree on the first point, but for the second I'm going to need far more equipment than just a prayer-mat!

Dark days indeed, RAF.



ah

[okeydokeystokie2]

Like Lord B I think he'll go with Big Vince.

And like Parkin, here's the puzzle. Tone obviously sees something in him. He worked with him at Portsmouth, so hes not just a player he's seen play a few times. I think he's got something too. He's strong, and the turn, run and shot he pulled off against Fulham looked OK.

Needs must, and right now I would prefer him up front with Ric ahead of Cressie. Neither seem to have great pace, but I think Vince might be OK with his back to goal as a target man, if the balls played in to his feet. For a big guy he doesn't look great in the air, but that's not really Cressie's game either.

If its ever going to happen for Vince it's now. He's almost the only option. We can tweak the system in training to suit him. He's pretty much guaranteed a run in the side for the next 2 or 3 games, which might help him. And he's desperate for a new contract. What other chance is he going to get of either getting a contract at Stoke or putting himself in the shop window?

And, erm, he used to play for Juventus you know!

Come on. Let's get behind big Vince. We really need him now, and maybe he needs us too.

[jezzascfc]

Vince is not the answer - if he was, I am not sure what the question would be!!

I would much rather we played 4-5-1 away from home with Kits and Mama out injured, with Soares and Tonge getting forward from out wide to support Ricardo, and one of the middle three trying to join in atttacks (Oli to come back in to do so - not that he has impressed too much so far?).

As for January, I'd hope we could get some more quality into the midfield, as well as at least another forward with real pace, to enable us to use Kits properly, as we all know he has the ability to be an effective Premiership forward from his Reading days.

[beardofzeus]

TP's decision will ultimately make or break Kitson's time at The Brit. Opt for a another Mama signing and he is as good offering Kits to other club. Strengthen options on the wings and see us add another striking option to the team.

[PONTAFCE]

Why are people so keen to offload kitson? ffs his is a quality player and we are trying to mould him into something he isnt.He carnt play the mama role and put the ball into his feet and hes leathal.

[RAF]

Offload Kitson and play Pericant up front!

You couldn't fucking make it up, you really couldn't!

H

[FullerMagic]

To be fair, Pericard is only being talked of in a horrible Winkle or Cresswell 'burning-to-death or drowning' type scenario.

And, if we aren't going to modify the hoofball gameplan, in a concession to our record signing's strengths, we may as well get rid of him ASAP.

[mayf]

The team and the tactics employed are largely built around Mama.He is a unique player.The only other premiership quality player in the same mould I can think of is Davies at Bolton and I can't see him wanting to come here in january.

A change of tactics then is imperative else I fear the worst for us I really do.Pericard and Creswell plainly aren't good enough...unless a dramatic transformation in their abilities occurs overnight....and we just don't have any other options do we.

It's alright fans saying get some wingers in with pace but will anyone of premiership quality want to come to a relegation threatened team ?

[FullerMagic]

Dec 15, 2008 15:41:01 GMT @mayf said:

The team and the tactics employed are largely built around Mama.He is a unique player.The only other premiership quality player in the same mould I can think of is Davies at Bolton and I can't see him wanting to come here in january.

I agree. If we're going to take the option of replacing Mama, rather than a tactical rethink, I suppose we'll have to look abroad. I don't see people like Harewood being able to make a fist of the unique demands of the Mama role. I see him more as Fuller cover.

The talk of the Portuguese bloke, Makukula, shows he may have been looking at a very Sidibe-like player, even before Mama's injury?