Away style has to change

[johnnysoul60]

You can argue that we caught a top team on a good day who got their goals at the right time and I'm sure many will, however if you look at the way we are playing away from home and I have been to every game, we are hardly giving ourselves a chance of getting anything more than a 0-0 draw.

We have seen some great defending and as he has in most games this season Diao has done some sterling work protecting the back four.

My problem is with the other two central midfield players, yesterday Faye and Olifinjana. When we won the ball, they hardly moved forward at all so we just had ric up front mama in midfield and rory trying to get up and provide some support, this simply is not enough to trouble premiership sides and its giving us no chance to get an away win.

I'm not saying we could have won yesterday but two points on the road all season show that the tactics are not working.

We should only need one holding midfiled player with the others being fit enough to work up and down the pitch, we have options in the squad that Tony does not seem to want to use. Again I dont understand this , yesterday on comes cresswell again and showed once again why he simply is not good enough to play in the premiership.

We have done really well this season so far but at some point we wil have a bad run at home and if we carry on playing away in a manner that gives us no chance of winning a game we will soon get stuck back in the bottom three

[daverichards]

we need to get at teams like we did @ Boro in the first half hour, we had loads of chances , but didn't capitalise

[tony harrison]

Good post, totally agree with your points.

We have a decent home record at the moment but we will not win every game at home, therefore we do need to pick up some 3 pointers away from home to keep us in the premier league.

From evidence seen up to now, we are not getting at teams away from home. Yes we lost to Manure as expected but the team performance was negative and poor.

We should have gone for it at Wigan but no it was another poor negative performance.

The two midfield players you mention are causing some of the problems, they are not creating very much positive play for us and should only be brought in when injuries or suspensions leave us without the creation and width we have but do not use.

Pulis needs to stop showing so much respect to every team in the premiership and actually give them the problems dealing with Stoke City.

[johnnysoul60]

I think that if he was brave enough to allow the likes of soares tonge and whelan to get forward and support fuller we might do ok and surprise one or two teams. Hull have shown that going for it away from home can bring in some points, they way we are playing 0-0 is the best that we will ever get on the road

[bgpotter]

here in bulgaria we watched the game live on tv - with manu fans around us Im afraid. However they were complementary about stoke and said the score flattered them greatly(although you cant say they werent all great strikes!)
The point was made, by a very knowledgable manu fan (yes there are some! ;D ) that it looked like our team were capable of much better and looked as though they could have retained the ball better (as cloughie once said - if we have the ball they cant score) but were under orders to punt it forward as fast as they could. The result being that 9 times out of 10 we gave the ball away cheaply and brought pressure on ourselves.
So the Man U fans were suprised there was no plan B after it became obvious that Fuller was getting on to very little and not being supported fast enough - a fair point - surely if we are 3-0 down that is a time when we could "experiment" with a plan B - play it on the floor to feet perhaps?????
Or perish the thought that we try a plan B in training.
I agree withthe above poster - why do we need two holding midfielders? Why cant we try Whelan(especialy as he had a good game in the league cup) with one of Diao, Olly or Amdy Faye alonside? (And before people scream he was only playing a lower league team, you can only perform against who is put in front of you!) Cresswell on as a midfielder? yes we got away with that in the championship and we have to be very greatful of his goals last season but dont we have midfielders we have bought who are better - or is Pulis saying cressy is better than some of our new £2m players!!!!?
Im in agreement thta for certain times and certain games a plan B would be helpful.
Does anyone agree, or is it better just to stick to the way we are playing away from home at the moment?
Im not moaning or having a go at Pulis etc etc etc just asking what other people think is the way forward to picking up more points away from home!

[bgpotter]

Personally i think that Pulis does seem to "big-up" teams to much and we appear to give them too much respect at times?

[johnnysoul60]

He has to change mate , as i put in the original post if we have a poor run at home and chances are we will then in such a tight league we will be back in the bottom three, hopefully January will see better midfield players coming in . I had a pint with an Irish cousin of mine before the game yesterday and he asked me about Whelan, who has got a great reputation over there from his performances in the national team yet he does not seem to get a chance in the league for us

[bgpotter]

I think its partly Pulis being bloody minded - lots of people are after Whelan to get a run in the team - least of all Trapatoni - but if Whelan comes in now it looks as if Pulis has given in to other outside opinions and influence - and thats something Pulis will never allow himself to be seen to do.
Whelan feeding balls into the feet of a £5m striker? Whatever will we think of next! (winky smiley thing!)

[wizzardofdribble]

Yesterday was the exception to the rule..we won't get tonked 5-0 away very often...as has already been said..if we'd capitalized against Bolton/Boro/Portsmouth/Wigan..early on.. the results could have been very different...had our strikers been a bit more clinical we could have collected at least 6 points from the above games rather than 2...

The problem with 'opening-up' and attacking away from home, as a game plan, is that it leaves you vulnerable and open to a severe tonking...

Its a difficult one either way..but I do think we need to be a bit more adventurous away from home or we may as well just send the youth team and keep the first team for home games only...

[dadofsam]

Does Pulis know that a win is 3 points now? I still think that if we went balls out to win every away game then the number of three points we nicked would add up to more than the one points which seems to be the limit of our ambition.

I don't think we ever stood a realistic chance of keeping Utd out for 90 minutes so we might as well have been more 'progressive' especially after the second or third went in.

Why bring Creswell on in that sort of a situation?

Loosing 5-0 feels rubbish, but it was to Man Utd at Old Trafford and in a funny way that's a blast

[johnnysoul60]

I dont think its about taking unecessary risks we could still have diao as a holding player and defend well as a unit so i'm not on about throwing people forward, just if we get the ball midfield players making a run to support the forwards better than currently , the current style gives us hardly any chance of scoring away from home and the facts back up that argument, as i mentioned above Hull are not better than us technically with the possible exception of Giovanni and they have done well away so why cant we?

[imallstokedup]

We've got 2 x 0-0 in games we never looked like winning.

Over the rest of the season, playing like that we will get another 4 points.

We need to go for wins.
The only thing we are defending is morale ?

[staffordshireknot]

Nov 16, 2008 11:59:25 GMT wizzardofdribble said:

Yesterday was the exception to the rule..we won't get tonked 5-0 away very often...as has already been said..if we'd capitalized against Bolton/Boro/Portsmouth/Wigan..early on.. the results could have been very different...had our strikers been a bit more clinical we could have collected at least 6 points from the above games rather than 2...

The problem with 'opening-up' and attacking away from home, as a game plan, is that it leaves you vulnerable and open to a severe tonking...

Its a difficult one either way..but I do think we need to be a bit more adventurous away from home or we may as well just send the youth team and keep the first team for home games only...

So what does staying closed up and not attacking despite losing 2 nil as a game plan do if it does not leave us open to a severe tonking?

[TheWiseMaster]

only morale?

Don't think morale isn't important - if your defence is over-run on a regular basis then they won't turn up at home when we do go for the points

We won't be able to change our style significantly until we have a really pacy winger to throw on. Someone who can get forward to support Fuller. We als need at least one more striker as Kitson just doesn't look the part in his current role

Lets see what happens in January

[jarhead]

Great post.

The team we have gone with since the Arsenal home game which on a narrow pitch and big noisy crowd on our side it worked.

Away it DOES NOT as the pitches are wider and all we are doing is inviting teams onto us and the wigan we very lucky not to in the end of lost that by a couple.

Lets adopt tactics with Whelan,Tonge,Soares in the midfield keeping the ball better and creating more than Olifinjana out right-wing which is painful to watch Cresswell makes me sick and if Faye Diao get any deeper then Pulis will have his dream defence with 6 defenders across the back.

[th05]

I agree about Boro, we attacked them in the first half. We need more of that away from home, that record needs to improve.

[FullerMagic]

That half an hour at Boro was great.

I don't know where it came from though.

Obviously it's a tough league and away wins are like hen's teeth, but that purple patch aside, we've looked pretty clueless away from home, away from our little pitch.

Delap's throws are not half as effective or frequent, and Fuller is twice as isolated. It's hard to see us having a real chance of winning a game away from home this season as it stands.

[6fingeredfreaks]

Ive said it before and I'll say it again Pulis has'nt got a clue about attacking football

[Akinbadbuy]

Totally agree with the original post.

The attitude of trying to get a 0-0 draw in every away match simply is not working.
Soares and Tongue must be wondering what the hell they have to do to get a game. I could not beleive Cresswell came on yesterday. Yes he works 'aaaarrdd' tone but simply is not good enough at this level.
Olifinjana has been a bit of a dissappointment for me too.
Im not saying we could have won or even come close to getting anything yesterday, but Im adament we would not have lost 5-0 if we had actually tried to mix it up a bit. Our tactics are son one dimensional away its untrue.
Our defence seems ok as does our attack but the midfield or lack of it is the main worry. I know people will have differing opinions on this but for me away from home Soares and Tongue should run the flanks and id try Whelan instead of Olifinjana in the centre.

[Akinbadbuy]

Also Delaps throws are pretty much useless away from home as the pitches are bigger so he is struggling to find the danger area.

[db]

I've been to Wigan and Man Ure and not seen us have one attempt on target. Using 4 defensive midfielders means we will struggle against any team. No pace, no crossesand no sustained possession.

Is Tone resorting back to his ultra defensive mode?

If we had been a bit more adventurous yesterday, would we have lost by more than 5? I don't think so!

After watching MOTD and bits of Hull v Man City, I honestly believe we will lose to both WBA and Hull if we play the same starting 11 as yesterday. (I know Fuller's suspended before you say owt!). Surely even Tone won't be stubborn enough to do that will he?

[surreystokie]

We certainly have to go for points v Rovers and Castle, coming up. If not them, then who?

[Cupid Stunt]

Nov 16, 2008 17:25:28 GMT 6fingeredfreaks said:

Ive said it before and I'll say it again Pulis has'nt got a clue about attacking football

That's why we beat Wolves 4-2, and Leeds 4-0 and West Brom 3-1 twice in one year, and that's why we beat Villa 3-2.

[spoton]

one reason it is not working to get o-o away in my opinion we still try to play 4 4 1 1 away we are here to survive this season we ask either Mama or Kits to act like a midfield player which they are not to get the draw away from home a no it seems negative but we have to play 4 5 1 with only one striker win enough at home and draw 6 to 8 away we are safe

[Beardy200]

All correct.

Yes 2 good draws at Liverpool and Wigan but lucky draws in my opinion and luck like that will never last for a whole season. You could say we could have pinched a point at Boro aswell but arguably we could be sat here with 0 points away from home. As for winning away from home ... we haven't worried anybody.

Home form and tactics ... spot on ... pat on the back Tone, keep up the good work

Away tactics ... open your eyes Pulis and grow some fuckin' balls.

I've even got no problem if we get a goal up and THEN revert back to this tactic. Expecting us to basically play like a training excercise and ask 11 defenders to keep out 10 attackers for 90 minutes is going to pick up very few points in the long run. When the 'almost' inevitable goal comes it needs such a totally different mindset that it's almost impossible to turn it round.

[joeymoose]

After 30 minutes yesterday it seemed that we had a back 8 who never left our half, Fuller totally isolated 40 metres in front of them and Mama somewhere in between. Our midfield couldn't string two passes together because the only Stoke players they could pass to were standing motionless right next to them. Nobody out wide as an out-ball.

Then I spot the 4th official with his board up. At last Pulis has spotted this and is going to bring on Tonge. Not so, Pulis decides to bring on Cresswell! OK Cressy did a reasonable job in the Championship but he looks like a fish out of water in the Prem, but never forget, he works aaard.

Defeat was always inevitable yesterday but the manner of it was embarrassing. We looked like a pub team, giving Utd the ball at every opportunity and asking them to run at us. The last two away games have cost me about £100 and I can't recall a single attempt on goal in those two games. We are starting to become a caricature of what the press make us out to be. If we have to walk away from away games without points at least let's do it with some dignity.

[johnnysoul60]

I would just like to see us attempt to get forward more and i think the new players deserve a chance but im sure olifinjana is fit enough to get up and down the pitch and even nick a few goals but pulis needs to change the style of play slightly from the current approach which wont bring any real joy in away games

[eriksson74]

Good post and totally agree. Was out walking the dog earlier and was mulling over yesterdays game and all awy games so far.

The way we set ourselves up only allows us to get a draw at best, to conceed so muc possession is just suicidal. Every away game we give a side 60% plus possession, therefore we are on the backfront from the off.

If we are to persist with this way of playing we may as well play an extra midfielder to make it 5 in midfield rather than asking a striker to play in there.

I was sat amongst the dirty reds yesterday and the comments were that are midfield were lazy, they just didn't want to support the front men and were not interested in joiong bthe attack once they had passes the ball. I had to point out to them it was due to the instructions of the baseball capped wonder!!!

Its no good saying we played the dirty reds, what do you expect. It is plain crazy to give a side with that much attacking threat nigh on 70% possession, you need to keep the ball and deprive them of posession. After all its not rocket science to note you cant score without the ball, something we fail to recognise

The way we play away, puts pressure on us to deliver at home, and so far so good on that front but the next three home gams are games that the pressure will intensify to get results.

When we play at home we give ourselves a fighting chance and that has resulted in a decent return, including bonus points eg Arsenal.

The away style needs to change otherwise I don't see how the hell we can actually give ourselves the chance of picking up 3 points on our travels

[anarchicalan]

It will never change as long as Pulis is in charge. He'd much rather have aaaaard workers than skill, even when they're slower than a dead slug.

[DodgyDino]

Someone posted a thread a couple of weeks ago "Who would be our first away victory against". At the time i replied that the way we set about playing away from home it wouldnt suprise me one bit if we dont win an away game all season, Nothings changed as of yet to convince me otherwise.