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Post by sweetandinnocent on Nov 15, 2008 20:59:19 GMT
To sit back at Old Trafford and invite pressure for 90 minutes is suicidal, Man Utd are the European champions for a reason, they score goals past the best defenses in Europe. This approach was never going to work at OT as every single player has the ability to hurt you. Yes this approach worked at Liverpool, but if anybody remembers that day they will remember that we were very fortunate to come away with a draw as Liverpool had plenty of chances but they were miss firing, we could of lost that game by 5 quite easily. IMO stoke set out today to complete a damage limitation exercise, we had no intention of looking for a goal. Burnley showed in mid-week that it is not imposable to get a result at these top 4 grounds if you set out with the right approach and attitude, they took the game to Chelsea and were rewarded for having the balls to 'have a go'. Burnley were not lucky, they created their own luck, are Burnley a better team than Stoke?......NO  What I do not understand is that games against the top 4 are classed as a bonus if you get anything from them, you are not expected to win them, so why not go out there with the intention to win these games? So what if we got spanked by 5 or even 7, at least we had a go! when your expected to come away with 0 points what would we of had to lose? IMO it was the same against Wigan, i don't normally agree with spider-man but like he said it was 'Wigan' not Barcelona. Games such as Wigan away are the games that we should be looking to get 3 points from as we will need a couple of away wins to stay up this season. We played the same at Wigan as we did today, wigan were also unlucky not to score against us, so how can we expect the same approach to work against the quality of Man Utd? If this game was classed as a write-off from the start, then why not use it as an experimental match, and play Wheelan and Kitson in the same team from the start? My main frustration about today is that we just accepted defeat without having the bottle to attempt to even put a foot print on the game. All we did today is accept the inevitable? Maybe todays spanking was a blessing in disguise, maybe TP has learned a lesson from this and will approach away games more positively in future, but I have a feeling he won't as he may well just put it down to being at Old Trafford.  Its horrible to watch your team accept defeat in such a manner, to go down without so much as a fight is just unacceptable.  If we are just going to turn up at places with damage limitation in mind, then why even bother turning up Stoke? January can not come around soon enough. |
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Post by jay1610 on Nov 15, 2008 21:00:05 GMT
Next.
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Post by twisty on Nov 15, 2008 21:00:34 GMT
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz shit bin
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Post by Pedropotter on Nov 15, 2008 21:00:25 GMT
Yawn! |
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Post by sweetandinnocent on Nov 15, 2008 21:04:00 GMT
so are you lot happy for stoke to not even put up a fight?
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Post by twisty on Nov 15, 2008 21:04:51 GMT
We didnt play that bad,,, if we'd of gone there and gone gung ho all out attack we'd be sitting here picking the bones out of a much heaver defeat.
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Post by jay1610 on Nov 15, 2008 21:06:46 GMT
so are you lot happy for stoke to not even put up a fight? The very same tactics have won us points v Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal. Why are people so downbeat after a defeat? I respect opinions but the next two games are miles and miles more important to you surely?! |
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Post by sweetandinnocent on Nov 15, 2008 21:07:30 GMT
We didnt play that bad,,, if we'd of gone there and gone gung ho all out attack we'd be sitting here picking the bones out of a much heaver defeat. a defeat is a defeat you get 0 points for losing 1-0 and you get 0 points for a 10-0, but at least you come away with the pride of making a good account of yourselves if you have a go at them |
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Post by kingdeano on Nov 15, 2008 21:07:25 GMT
tony that is totally spot on! agree with all that bud
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Post by oslostokie1 on Nov 15, 2008 21:08:11 GMT
Mose sensible post on here for a long time. Pulis was too worried about ruining his post match 'glass of red' with Ferge to bother put up a fight.
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Post by sweetandinnocent on Nov 15, 2008 21:09:26 GMT
so are you lot happy for stoke to not even put up a fight? The very same tactics have won us points v Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal. Why are people so downbeat after a defeat? I respect opinions but the next two games are miles and miles more important to you surely?! yes of course they are but if we had nothing to lose from this match as it was a write-off, what had we to lose by looking for a goal? |
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Post by kingdeano on Nov 15, 2008 21:10:43 GMT
what makes me laugh is these people who say yawn,zzzz, next, to possibly one of the best posts on here! now whos the braindead fans
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Post by frasiertruffles on Nov 15, 2008 21:10:26 GMT
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Post by Beardy200 on Nov 15, 2008 21:11:21 GMT
The very same tactics have won us points v Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal. Why are people so downbeat after a defeat? I respect opinions but the next two games are miles and miles more important to you surely?! yes of course they are but if we had nothing to lose from this match as it was a write-off, what had we to lose by looking for a goal? You're just bitter because after 4 minutes your £1,700 quid was up the swanny  |
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Post by twisty on Nov 15, 2008 21:13:17 GMT
 Slash slash slash |
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Post by serpico on Nov 15, 2008 21:13:30 GMT
Why are people not allowed to voice ANY criticism without being shouted down ? , imo after the last two away performances it's fair game, nobody expected us to go to United and out play them, but it really amounted to nothing more than a attack Vs Defense practice match for Man United, which is becoming a staple of our away performances this season, I really don't understand this approach, if Wigan weren't shit they would have also comprehensively beaten us as well last week.
As I've said in another thread, the defeat doesn't bother me, most clubs go to United and get beat, but the manner of the defeat gripes with me a little, playing two uncreative defensive central midfield players, is just asking fro trouble.
That said, do we actually have the players to play any other way ???
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Post by jarhead on Nov 15, 2008 21:16:59 GMT
Great post now the MORONS who hate reading the truth or anything of note type zzzzzzzz yawnnnnnn...try fucking reading it ffs and grow some balls,the Wigan game was terrible we just about held on there and to try and do it today shows how inept Pulis is.
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Post by sweetandinnocent on Nov 15, 2008 21:18:42 GMT
yes of course they are but if we had nothing to lose from this match as it was a write-off, what had we to lose by looking for a goal? You're just bitter because after 4 minutes your £1,700 quid was up the swanny you might have a point there  |
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Post by kingdeano on Nov 15, 2008 21:21:03 GMT
Great post now the MORONS who hate reading the truth or anything of note type zzzzzzzz yawnnnnnn...try fucking reading it ffs and grow some balls,the Wigan game was terrible we just about held on there and to try and do it today shows how inept Pulis is. you should know peck that some rimmers dont like the truth, they prefer pretend they cant hear it! is that tony gale!!! |
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Post by Beardy200 on Nov 15, 2008 21:22:56 GMT
Joking aside i agree with practically all of it. You should be able to voice your opinion good or bad as long as you clarify it and you did. Having said that our tactics away from home are the ONLY disapointing thing so far about the season. The Liverpool and Wigan games were painful to watch at times but hey, i wouldn't have been surprised if we'd been camped at the bottom of the table so i'm still very happy despite this little gripe as i'm sure TurtleTony and his mates are. There's still time for Tone to change his opinions a bit on away games (today will help hopefully), January isn't that far away, we've played all of the top 4 but we're not half way through the season yet, we've got our 'easiest' run of fixtures coming up. So fellas, have a gripe, that's fine, just try and stop it sounding like it's the end of the world. We are Stoke and everything's on the up and up |
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Post by proudstokie on Nov 15, 2008 21:23:45 GMT
F**K off who expected anything out of today, yeh Stoke were pretty bad today bit idiots like the last few posts just put a downer on stokes great season, lets just go outplay the european champions should we, utter twats
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Post by stokepablo on Nov 15, 2008 21:25:38 GMT
Was sat with Man U fans cos couldn't get a ticket - you were so loud I was proud! "We're gonna win 6-5!"
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Post by cazbloor on Nov 15, 2008 21:26:52 GMT
im proud of stokes performance, we are playing the best team in the world with 1 player worth as much as our own team.
this season we consentrate on winning the games against the lower teams and if we pick up points like we did at liverpool all the better. be realistic, we would get hammered if we went out to attack. keep the attacking at home as we have a smaller pitch, a tough croud. man u will come to the brit on boxing day and see a different stoke team. Rorys throw will put the wind up them as he will have a good run up!!!!
didnt hull get thrashed by wigan 5.0! where we got a draw.
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Post by sweetandinnocent on Nov 15, 2008 21:27:25 GMT
I'm not knocking TP - No way! It's just an observation, our home form is brilliant and we are in 14th place due to this! i just wish we could be more positive away from home
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Post by viewfromthecrowsnest on Nov 15, 2008 21:29:44 GMT
Tony - what you say is valid.
Although I am of the opinion that we need to use our resources wisely. Why go all out when chances of points are extremely thin? It is best to pit the maximum where there is likely to be maximum gain. If we gave it a 'real go' and had players key players injured/suspended, we would be deemed foolish - simply because its best to save the best for the real winnable fixtures.
Two examples: McLaren played Michael Owen in a meaningless friendly in Austria last year, before the crucial Croatia wembley game and he pinged his hamstring. We lost our best striker and our place in Euro 2008.
Sepp Herberger played his reserves against the mighty Hungary in 1954 World Cup, they got tonked 8-2 but roughed up Puskas. by the time the final came round, Germany's fresher 1st team caught Hungary by surprise and won 3-2.
Saving your best for when it matters is everything in football.
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Post by NG4POTTERS on Nov 15, 2008 21:29:38 GMT
I'm not knocking TP - No way! It's just an observation, our home form is brilliant and we are in 14th place due to this! i just wish we could be more positive away from home Agree, people spend shit loads of cash watching stoke away and deserve more attacking wise. To show such support during poor performances is incredible  |
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Post by Irish Stokie on Nov 15, 2008 21:39:52 GMT
S i assume you would have called the Liverpool and Arsenal matches "lost causes" and played experimental tactics against them as well??? The fact is that we were playing the best club team in the world meant that the only chance we had to win the game was to play cagey football and try to catch them out with a throw or long ball but 0-0 a la Anfield was the game plan.
To compare playing against an almost full strength Utd side at Old Traffford in the Prem, to Burnley playing a Chelsea 2nd string in the Cup they have little interest in is ridiculous and completely unfounded
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Nov 15, 2008 21:44:01 GMT
Pulis is still learning, as are many of our players. TP has never managed in the top flight before and at home he's got he's tactics spot on. away from home he probably needs to assess his tactics at times but so far he's doing an excellent job. Today wasn't great and UTD were clinical but after Ronaldo's first goal up to Carricks goal we played quite well today
We were playing Utd, there's no way we could have attacked them all game even if we'd have tried. We'd have been ripped apart, although I suppose we were anyway today. What you need in these sort of games is luck.
let's not forget Gerrard scored a perfectly legitimate goal inside 5 mins at Anfield and I think everyone knew from then we had the luck that day. Today we didn't. What we did have against Liverpool was a more balanced midfield as Larwrence was playing on the right.
We should just mark this one down to experience and move on to the 2 vital home games coming up.
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Post by Beardy200 on Nov 15, 2008 21:52:29 GMT
S i assume you would have called the Liverpool and Arsenal matches "lost causes" and played experimental tactics against them as well??? The fact is that we were playing the best club team in the world meant that the only chance we had to win the game was to play cagey football and try to catch them out with a throw or long ball but 0-0 a la Anfield was the game plan. To compare playing against an almost full strength Utd side at Old Traffford in the Prem, to Burnley playing a Chelsea 2nd string in the Cup they have little interest in is ridiculous and completely unfounded To be fair we were so lucky at Liverpool it may as well have been a lost cause. Plus, this thread is about away game tactics and we didn't camp outside our box against Arsenal. We pressed them much further up the pitch and limited them to a few long range shots despite all their possesion. Against Liverpool, Man U and at times Wigan we've sat way too deep and 'invited' pressure. I truly beileve if we pushed out a little bit more as in the Arsenal game we'd be under a lot less pressure defensively and in the position to get forward quicker when we get the chance. They were walking it into the box at times today because we let them get so close so easily. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 16, 2008 1:00:15 GMT
Yes we've had a great start, much better than many of us had anticipated.
However, surely true constructive criticism is born of concern for the (inevitable) areas that will need to be addressed in order for our start to be maintained.
I think Tony's original post attempted to do this.
Indeed, we were extremely lucky against Liverpool and Wigan not to have conceded and our present tactics away from home could easily have netted us nuls points so far.
cheers
Paul
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