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Post by Ghostface on Oct 20, 2008 12:58:01 GMT
Enough is Enough!!!!  How hard can it be to sort this maggot infested society out?! 1) Close the borders. If you have no guarantee of work, you don't come in. 2) Benefits stop now! If you don't work, you don't eat. I propose a maximum of 6 months on the dole (more than enough time for someone who wants to find work, to do so), before you have to work for the state. Working for the state would mean you getting paid the paltry dole money for adding to society. Jobs would incude manufacturing, cleaning, national service, and construction. If you were to get 'fired' from this post, then all money would be stopped. 3) More prisons. With the added work force brought about by number 2, labour would be reduced dramatically, and even things such as mining could be done by the state workers. 4) Tougher sentencing. With more jails, there'd be no excuse for letting criminals off with a slap on the wrist. The biggest new law to be passed would be that anyone found on the streets with a gun or a knife would automatically serve life (which would mean life) inprisonment. If you carry a gun or a knife, under this legislation you would be intending to take a life, therefore, you forfeit yours. 5) If you are not born in this country and commit a crime warranting sentencing then you will be deported. As you will if found to be in any way involved in hate mongering or terrorist plots. If you hate this country so much then let us make it easy for you, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out... 6) The NHS will be completely overhauled. There will be a threshold of national insurance that you must pay once you are over the age of 21, before you will be treated for free. This will exclude only those in full time education, who will have a period of 3 years post graduation to reach this. 7) Abolish the Human Rights Act. It has done us more harm than good. We managed up until 1998 without it and allows the people who we were trying to protect society from to get off Scott Free! Rant over There will probably be more points added when I've stewed a bit more Will |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2008 13:05:12 GMT
Apart from points 1-7 being a complete load of bollocks your post reads very well!
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Post by smapples on Oct 20, 2008 13:36:06 GMT
So basically if you can survive for 6months without any food then you help police your mates who needed to steal for that 6months to eat.
Then if you were to survive as above, you would be a pretty ratty sort of person, all starved and shit. Perfect! the human rights act has been abolished, you better go get your whipping stick or toture kit as those prisoners could scream pretty loud and no judge could hear them.
In all honesty this sounds a bit like old old Britain where there were immigrant slaves, beggers, disease, the tower of London etc...
If you get your way I better start saving up for my black death jabs
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 20, 2008 13:51:44 GMT
Yeah lets turn into Uganda-winner!  |
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Post by broadwayroundabout on Oct 20, 2008 13:57:34 GMT
Enough is Enough!!!! How hard can it be to sort this maggot infested society out?! you won't get many votes off those who do a bit of fishing ! needs another coat of looking at me thinks ghost. |
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Post by Ghostface on Oct 20, 2008 14:38:28 GMT
Yeah lets turn into Uganda-winner! Or lets sit by and do fuck all and see out country go down the pan. Thats the problem today, people are pissed off with whats happening but would rather moan and shout down other peoples ideas than think for themselves. I agree that some of the points i mentioned are drastic to say the least, but thats because we are so far in the shit! For this country to get back on track, its going to take a lot more than a few little snips here and there. We need a complete overhaul. Oh, and as for the Uganda snipe Bayern, witless, irrelevant and ignorant... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2008 14:46:00 GMT
Yeah lets turn into Uganda-winner! Or lets sit by and do fuck all and see out country go down the pan. Thats the problem today, people are pissed off with whats happening but would rather moan and shout down other peoples ideas than think for themselves. I agree that some of the points i mentioned are drastic to say the least, but thats because we are so far in the shit! For this country to get back on track, its going to take a lot more than a few little snips here and there. We need a complete overhaul. Oh, and as for the Uganda snipe Bayern, witless, irrelevant and ignorant... Pisser..you call bayern ignorant..yet you actually think that getting people on the dole towork for there money is the solution?? Have you heard of minimum wage...on the basis that the dole is about £60 a week you would have them working about 11 hours!!! |
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Post by Ghostface on Oct 20, 2008 14:55:17 GMT
Or lets sit by and do fuck all and see out country go down the pan. Thats the problem today, people are pissed off with whats happening but would rather moan and shout down other peoples ideas than think for themselves. I agree that some of the points i mentioned are drastic to say the least, but thats because we are so far in the shit! For this country to get back on track, its going to take a lot more than a few little snips here and there. We need a complete overhaul. Oh, and as for the Uganda snipe Bayern, witless, irrelevant and ignorant... Pisser..you call bayern ignorant..yet you actually think that getting people on the dole towork for there money is the solution?? Have you heard of minimum wage...on the basis that the dole is about £60 a week you would have them working about 11 hours!!! It's 11 hours more than they work now! And how very condescending from someone who again would rather try to shoot someone down than have an imagination. You can pick my ideas apart all you like, this is a messageboard, and the reason I posted it, to get people thinking. But before you try and belittle me, why not have a go yourself?! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2008 15:03:20 GMT
Pisser..you call bayern ignorant..yet you actually think that getting people on the dole towork for there money is the solution?? Have you heard of minimum wage...on the basis that the dole is about £60 a week you would have them working about 11 hours!!! It's 11 hours more than they work now! And how very condescending from someone who again would rather try to shoot someone down than have an imagination. You can pick my ideas apart all you like, this is a messageboard, and the reason I posted it, to get people thinking. But before you try and belittle me, why not have a go yourself?! I have got an imagination...I imagine that I am fucking an18 year old virgin every morning... ...I realise however that it is bullshit and therefore do not post it on here!! |
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Oct 20, 2008 15:18:51 GMT
yes this country is shit! and i applaud anyone wanting to do something about it, but i think you're blaming all the wrong people ghostface. "1) Close the borders. If you have no guarantee of work, you don't come in" public services are stretched, schools overcrowded, affordable housing disappeared and no doubt immigration(particularly the governments forced dispersal system doesn't help the problem) but immigrants can't be blamed for decades of under-funding of education, privatization of public services, the selling of social housing to build yuppie flats - thatcher started it and new labour have done a decent job of continuing to fuck communities. "2) Benefits stop now!" i hope you dont have to face the indignity of claiming benefits anytime soon ghostface, cus its no fun! of course theres a minority who could work but don't but workers in britain fought for decades for the right to claim benefits when they need it and they won! if young people had apprenticeships and decent training rather than the option of tesco's or call centres im sure a lot more of those who could work, would. of course it doesnt help that the minimum wage is set so low that kids can work 60 hours a week and still not be able to afford their own flat, or to pay the bills! (i know i did it for 3 years when i left school) "3) More prisons" the prison system doesnt work, and its not just struggling at the mo, its never worked! prisons have always help create more crime than theyve cut. removing criminals from society is never gonna help them to reintegrate, in fact it pretty much makes sure offenders will re-offend and pass on there bad behavior to their kids. "4) Tougher sentencing" just makes everything prisons do best all the more effective! "5)don't let the door hit your arse on the way out" once we start treating different people in different ways where does it end?? so we deport criminals (back to where they came from i assume, where they were fucked enough to want to come here !?!) what about the unemployed? people who steal to eat? well i guess australia isnt quite full yet! we could get back to deporting everyone again.... BOLLOCKS! "7)The NHS will be completely overhauled" i agree with the first sentence, but everything else you say, is pretty much exactly what the government has wanted, and would have done already if they thought they could get away with it. once again the NHS was fought for and won by working class people, we should honour what the NHS was always supposed to be! FREE at the point of use, from cradle to grave. should the unemployed be allowed to get sick and die? how about young mums? should they give birth in the street? the government want to sell off the NHS, charge us for care and generally move towards the US model, which is profitable at the expense of the poor, hundreds of thousands of which die in the US every year from treatable disease, because they couldnt afford insurence. I would protest with millions of others if the government tried to impose the US model of health care! it needs funding and for staff to be able to treat patients without worrying about targets and profitability! "7) Abolish the Human Rights Act." put down the daily mail and think about it. Human rights only seem pointless when we dont need them, without them there is nothing to stop ANYONE being exploited(even more so than most of us already are), all these stories .... "immigrant gay benefit cheats handed 10000000000 pounds because they wanted a PS3" are printed in newspapers owned by either major backers of the tories(the mail, the times, the express, telegraph) who want to make out labour have us living in anarchy or nu labour (the sun, the mirror) who want us blaming immigrants/gypsies/the unemployed etc for the problems the government, the banks and big business have caused. what your "manifesto" would mean would be extreme poverty (akin to victorian britain) for the majority and extreme wealth for those with extreme wealth. more powers to police and the government to further fuck up and divide communities and everything you moan about getting a lot worse. regrettably i will be unable to subscribe to your manifesto  |
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Post by Ghostface on Oct 20, 2008 15:33:21 GMT
Stokey-Pokey, as much as you don't agree with anything I've put forward I do however appreciate your ability to constructively criticise and take part in a debate. I just feel at just such a low ebb with this country at the moment and despise the way it's going. We surely can't carry on for much longer the way we are struggling, with this "credit crunch", Stupid Politcial Correctness, gun and knife crime, and people taking the piss with our tax payers money. I mean no offence to people who genuinely can't work, but I get disillusioned when out of my group of mates as a kid, I'm the only one out of the 6 of us who has EVER had a job at the age of 25. We all struggle to make ends meet, and it just makes it worse to see people continuously taking the piss, having everything paid for, when they've never worked a day in their life. One of my former friends has 4 kids! My partner and I are both young professionals contemplating starting a family, but feel at the moment that we can't afford too, yet my old school friends can. How is that fair?
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Oct 20, 2008 15:52:12 GMT
in places like stoke we'll always get hit hard by all the little problems hitting the country generally. we are a poor city, we have no manufacturing industry left, no apprenticeships, little training, public services stretched to the bone, a council who'll spend a million quid on flowers for the city centre but cry poverty when its clear that particularly young people are losing out at a very young age, leading to a culture of unemployment and crime.
like i said i think people should be getting angry, i just think we're being given scapegoats (immigrants/unemployed/youth etc ) when its the so called 'labour government that have put us in this hole we find ourselves in.
they created the conditions for a recession, now tax payers are expected to foot the bill. they allowed young people to be priced out of the housing market, then blamed the lack of housing on immigrants, they started locking up people pensioners and young mums for not paying bills quick enough or stole to eat(90% of crime is economic- half of that is petty stealing) but make out that all criminal are blood-thirsty maniacs or terrorists.
the problem with demonising all these people is that theyre unlikely to then be calm peaceful people. no wonder young people are turning to crime and the jobless get comfy - at least on benefits they can pay the rent!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 20, 2008 16:34:39 GMT
Witless maybe, ignorant no. Yes this country is up the shitter and it needs sorting. I just think Your ideas are wank!
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Post by Ghostface on Oct 20, 2008 18:42:03 GMT
Well let's hear your ideas then Bayern, as mine are so 'wank' I await with baited breath...
And Stokey-pokey i agree with what you're saying re: the government but things will never change, because at the end of the day whats the other alternative? The Conservatives? The problem we have is that there are only 2 parties to vote for, each as bad as each other. I honestly believe that sooner rather than later the public will finally snap and a party such as the BNP will swell in power, not due to racism/ prejudice, but merely down to desperation, in fact its started already.
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Oct 20, 2008 20:05:41 GMT
yeah ghostface there is no alternative! labour are the new tories, tories think they can look red, blue and green at the same time and the liberals arent fundementally different either. but what have the BNP done to show us theyll be any different? they vote for cuts in services, selling off of the NHS.... in fact they support almost every policy thought up by labour or tories, they just do it quietly so no-one will notice.
how long have we had BNP councillors in stoke? 4 years? ish. has there been one motion put foreward to improve the lives of working people in any way? i can't think of one!
labour was founded when workers needed representation in parliament, the right to fight for better conditions, pensions, wages etc. the same is needed today and i doubt until a new party that represents working people is formed, we'll see any improvement in living standards, housing, services, health, education, crime etc no matter how many schemes the different parties in westminster put forward at election time.
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Post by mermaidsal on Oct 20, 2008 20:25:12 GMT
How about instead of finding scapegoats we stand together, try and build a proud city again with strong, welcoming communities and build proper local businesses? I'm sounding like Tubbs here but we need local strategies not national ones. I don't care where anyone was born or what colour their skin is, it's wanting to make a go of living here and contributing I mind about. I just hate all this defensive blaming, and the way it's being mixed up with law and order (which I do believe in, it's the mark of a civilised community that it's safe for everyone who lives here).
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 20, 2008 23:37:43 GMT
Right we'll have a bit of what Sal said to start with. Lets get united and not blame different societies within the community. What is missing in politics is common sense. No bugger in power has any. Even with an ounce of it the country would be in a better state. I don't have the answers and have never claimed to have the answer. I just know blaming everyone and then abolishing the human rights act is a load of bollocks!
Respect is needed in this country I think. Respect for everyone wherever they were born, whatever there social background is etc. There is no respect in this country and its pathetic. How do You get people to respect one another though?
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Post by Dazzlerscfc on Oct 21, 2008 6:18:52 GMT
''8) Stop WILLSCFC Taking Shots in Fifa 09''
I hope Oatcake Rovers will consider this new law whilest playing 10 a side on Fifa 09, Time and time again has Will fired shots over the bar from 5 yards out, Dispite Will scoring 2 goals yesterday, If we actually use this law, Shooting accuracy will raise by 90% whilest scoring rates will triple.
Comments?
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Post by Rebelliousjukebox on Oct 21, 2008 6:31:32 GMT
I'm not going to give a detailed refutation of your points (reads like I imagine the UKIP Manifesto is )Ghostface - Stokey-pokey & Sal have done that more than adequately.
I will add that I disagree with your comment about the BNP:-
1) People do have other alternatives to the main 3 parties - the Greens for example.
2) I find it difficult to see how people could vote for the BNP and not be racist, given that racism is at the core of their filthy being.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 21, 2008 7:36:19 GMT
I agree that we need some radical thinking and changes to our society but it must be fair and sustainable against world scrutiny.
I am a Thatcherite and make no apologies for that because she turned GB around in the 80's from a country on its knees to a powerful and respected nation. I was part of that and therefore experienced first hand the good changes that she made particularly in the first two governments.
When she came to power in 1979 she said of Labour's welfare system:
"Benefits that are distributed with little or no consideration of their effect on behaviour, encouraged illigitimacy, facilitated the breakdown of families, and replaced incentives favouring work and self-reliance with perverse encouragement for idleness and cheating"
Sound familiar?? IMO this is where we need to stop the rot. Not sure if Ghost is a bit too radical with some of his points but at least he is making a good attempt at starting the debate.
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Post by Ghostface on Oct 21, 2008 21:28:38 GMT
Bayern, i completely agree with regards respect, and the question that you end with is probably one of/ if not the most important and difficult questions that faces modern day Britain. How do you regain respect? On a thread further down there's the story of firemen being bricked. If people who save lives aren't respected than what hope have we got? The problem i believe lies in the fact that the scum of society hold all the power. You can have the most important job in the world, the most qualifications etc, but a gang of feral kids can still stop you from entering a corner shop. You will not go out at night, for fear of one of these algae eaters mugging/assaulting/stabbing you. And what makes matters worse is that by going to work and paying your taxes, you are paying for these scrotums to sit on their fat arse all day, so that they can stay out all night and terrorise communities...
(Before anyone responds, i know i'm only talking about a small cross section of society, and the majority of youngsters/ people on benefits etc are not like this, its merely an example of Britain in 2008 from my point of view.)
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Post by starkiller on Oct 22, 2008 17:58:10 GMT
Enough is Enough!!!! How hard can it be to sort this maggot infested society out?! 1) Close the borders. If you have no guarantee of work, you don't come in. 2) Benefits stop now! If you don't work, you don't eat. I propose a maximum of 6 months on the dole (more than enough time for someone who wants to find work, to do so), before you have to work for the state. Working for the state would mean you getting paid the paltry dole money for adding to society. Jobs would incude manufacturing, cleaning, national service, and construction. If you were to get 'fired' from this post, then all money would be stopped. 3) More prisons. With the added work force brought about by number 2, labour would be reduced dramatically, and even things such as mining could be done by the state workers. 4) Tougher sentencing. With more jails, there'd be no excuse for letting criminals off with a slap on the wrist. The biggest new law to be passed would be that anyone found on the streets with a gun or a knife would automatically serve life (which would mean life) inprisonment. If you carry a gun or a knife, under this legislation you would be intending to take a life, therefore, you forfeit yours. 5) If you are not born in this country and commit a crime warranting sentencing then you will be deported. As you will if found to be in any way involved in hate mongering or terrorist plots. If you hate this country so much then let us make it easy for you, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out... 6) The NHS will be completely overhauled. There will be a threshold of national insurance that you must pay once you are over the age of 21, before you will be treated for free. This will exclude only those in full time education, who will have a period of 3 years post graduation to reach this. 7) Abolish the Human Rights Act. It has done us more harm than good. We managed up until 1998 without it and allows the people who we were trying to protect society from to get off Scott Free! Rant over There will probably be more points added when I've stewed a bit more Will All this shows that you have been carefully manipulated to think exactly what the elite want you to. They want division and unrest in society caused by some of the stuff you mention. They want people at each others' throats rather than together against the tyranny we're under. They want us to demand our freedoms are even further taken way. They want us to fear terrorists which are something they themselves have created . And finally, eventually, they want civil unrest so they can instigate martial law. The political system hides the shadowy elite who are really in charge - there is no vote for change (both sides are controlled) and it's time people realised this before it's too late. |
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Post by stokecity on Oct 22, 2008 18:42:37 GMT
Isn't part of the problem more to do with expectations and aspirations. For as long as I can remember if something didn't quite work, I'd just go out and buy something to replace it - without thinking - rather than try to repair. Or a new model comes out with added features so I'd go out and replace the working model I had with the new one.
What we live in is a disposable society where values have gone. This has led to a reduction in our appreciation of what's around us and that includes others lives. How many times has anyone kept an eye out for the old lady two doors down (not just the one down the road from me but the one by you as well)?
Kids think they can just go out and have the latest things, however they choose to get them.
Community spirit has gone. I can remember my cousin's girlfriend telling me about how everyone in the street left doors unlocked - in Meir - without any fear of crime and everyone looked after each other's houses, would anyone do that now? I can remember being in shops where a kids dad brought the kid back to apologise to the shopkeeper for stealing something earlier.
I don't think any one political power can be blamed for the state that Britain (no longer England) is in when the real blame should be identified a lot closer to home.
I've said this before on another thread but I personally have never come across any councillor or MP (and I've met a great number) that was totally selfless.
One of the initial points made was that criminals who weren't born here should be deported, what if they were born to a british-white (politically correct terminology) couple that were holidaying abroad? There's some ill-thought out BNP-esque points being raised that seems to have a veiled attempt to cover them up.
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Oct 22, 2008 19:32:48 GMT
i agree stokecity, community spirit has been destroyed but thats the direction society has been moved in. you can't blame people for being afraid of each other - pick up a daily tabloid like the sun or the mail - we're told every day to be scared of each other. and if you don't pick up the sun or whatever - no worries - lord eff is always on hand to pass the bile on!
communities used to be held together because people worked together in pits, pots and steel and people drank together in the local. now people work in warehouses and call centres(particularly young people) and estate pubs have been knocked down to make room for 'development'.
thatcher famously announced that there was no such thing as society, just individuals and families. i think where we are now is an indicator of what thatcherism (from thatcher and major through to brown) has done to society.
id hate to be leaving school now, im only 23 but when i was a kid (in meir) i remember people always helping each other out - cuppa sugar and all that. now everyones been taught to think about themselves but at the same time are finding out that theres nothing for young people in britain anymore - no job security, no community spirit, no chance of improving your lot (for most anyway). fuck knows where we'll be in 5 years? like i said, i think people need to build there own political party again - until then some people will find the BNP's bullshit attractive.
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Post by stokecity on Oct 22, 2008 21:37:18 GMT
sp, I work in housing development and, being selfish, I think it's the best thing that can happen to some areas - said tongue-in-cheek. It seems that the only regeneration of communities seems to focus on homes alone and developers tend to look at how many properties they can shoehorn on a site/estate rather than looking at what added value can be achieved. What new employment is attracted? Who should be attracting this outward investment? What's the opinion of Stoke on Trent in the wider business community? We really should be promoting our area through the location we're in and the fantastic transport links we have. BUT we, the people living here, have a low opinion of the area and don't promote ourselves.
We're fed the opinion that Stoke on Trent is a deprived area and, for the most part, people believe what they're told. This leads to a lack of ambition and a sense of apathy. Yes, the tabloids should shoulder some of the blame but let's ask who it is exactly who funds these - yes, you got it, that's the like of us. How many question what's published? not many I'd guess. You've only got to look at the press coverage our team gets. There's too much lazy journalism that doesn't get corrected and/or questioned. We accept what we're told without question and until that changes nothing else will. Sir John Egan was quoted as saying "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" and I think there's nothing truer said.
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Post by swampySCFC on Oct 22, 2008 21:48:57 GMT
Ghost
A Bit more humility needed here.
Ive just been made redundant after being in work for 31 yrs over which time Ive paid my national insurance subs.
Hate to think how many thousands that means Ive put in to the system.
I want a new job at a similar level to the one I left and believe me employers arent rolling up to offer jobs at the moment.
So if I should be unemployed for 6 months I wont take kindly to some civil servant telling me I need to go breaking rocks for £60 a week.
That doesnt sound like a fair deal
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Oct 22, 2008 22:32:46 GMT
stokecity, i wasnt trying to say that real development is a bad thing. i just hate that while there are areas of the city that are literally falling apart, millions are spent on yuppie flats that largely lie empty and more shops that we dont need.
as for people believing what they read, the tabloids spend millions on making themselves look like 'the peoples papers', have you seen the new adverts for the sun? its hardly surprising that all that money and advertising works on a lot of people.
p.s good luck swampy
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 23:26:51 GMT
Some more left wing drivel on here. Stoke is a mess because we have had 30 years of Labour now all of a sudden are turning to the BNP? More crime....well build more prisons. Labour have spent nearly 2 billion to tackle truancy in schools since 1997.FAILED "People do have other alternatives to the main 3 parties - the Greens for example" Labour are the new tories. How did you work that out? "Community spirit has gone. I can remember my cousin's girlfriend telling me about how everyone in the street left doors unlocked - in Meir" You couldn't do that in the 1980s nevermind today  Now that India can send probes to the moon, I am sure our aid will stop going there?????? Lets face it, Labour have 'conned' you lot for eleven years and some STILL will vote for them next election????? At least they can't take our pubs away...Hold on a minute? |
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Post by mumf14 on Oct 23, 2008 0:00:15 GMT
I will always vote Labour....The Reason is that I am poor.
I support the Labour Party for the Following reasons:
Thatcherism is an evil facet of the "I'm alright Jack philosophy".
I believe in the welfare state.
Healthcare should be free for all and not just for those who can afford it.(If health was a thing that money could buy ,then the rich would live and the poor would die).
The Conservatives do not believe in the Welfare state....
The Conservatives would do away with Inheritance tax.
The Conservatives would reduce the levels of tax on the highest earners.
The Conservatives cannot be trusted with the Economy.
The Conservative government led us into the 'Boom and Bust' economic disaster.
The Poll tax.
The re-introduction of Fox Hunting.
The Conservatives would abolish the minimum wage.
The Conservatives would introduce more private health care initiatives through tax incentives..(see my point above)
Cameron pretends to be a man of the people....Bollox...Have you seen his family tree and wealth.?
The Conservatives would cut public spending to an all time low.
The Conservatives never fail to vote....
The working man does...(Apathy rules amongst the working classes.)................Therein lies the problem.
If every man woman and child voted for the party that financially would serve their own circumstance best ...then 'The Blue Rinsers' from home counties south would never again laugh at John Prescott jokes and would more than likely choke on their caviar and prawn sandwiches .!!!!!
Cue the current shadow Chancellor and that beautiful yacht in the Med...I give you the man in the hot seat....George Osbourne...and the tale of the Billionaire...
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Post by Rebelliousjukebox on Oct 23, 2008 6:49:21 GMT
"People do have other alternatives to the main 3 parties - the Greens for example" Why the ? Unlike the BNP, they provide a SERIOUS alternative to Labour/Tory/LibDems, and they're not racist bastards.Labour are the new tories. How did you work that out? Mandelson - need I say any more?" Lets face it, Labour have 'conned' you lot for eleven years and some STILL will vote for them next election????? Agree - that's why I, for one, haven't voted for them. |
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