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Post by tommycarlsberg on Nov 8, 2024 11:41:02 GMT
Being asked to do an impossible job in a 2 man midfield with a no.10.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 8, 2024 11:41:26 GMT
I don't 'get' Burger - he doesn't really protect the back 4, he doesn't really offer a threat going forward, he is pretty unathletic for his role.....luckily for us, Cantwell decided for some reason to go deeper and deeper to get on the ball the more the match went on. First half, he completely dominated, and I'd be asking my defensive midfielders just why? It's their job to stop the #10 influencing the game. Second half, Seko did a lot of the hard yards and actually made Burger better just by being athletic and aware. And yet again, Burger's lack of fitness sees him getting a booking as he can't keep up with runners. He's a tidy player when playing well, but nothing more. Seko, in a few games, has shown exactly what we need in there. Hopefully, he'll give Burger the chance to get on the ball and pass it far more than he has. At present, his price tag is looking around £3.5m too much. How well did Seko do once Moran went off? I didn't see him doing any of the hard yards for anyone and he struggled in the midfield battle as much as anyone else. If Burger is struggling to meet the expectations of supporters, I would argue vehemently that it's as much to do with how the team is set up than it is anything to do with his current form or fitness. The manager is asking an awful lot of him at the moment and he's doing OK. If we are going with 2 in midfield, maybe Seko and Burger would be a far better balance than either of them with Moran. Quite how Moran escapes similar criticism is beyond me. If you want to talk about luxuries we can't afford, Moran is the very definition of it. |
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Post by Biblical on Nov 8, 2024 11:47:44 GMT
Given that he’s largely been playing alongside Moran I’m not sure what people are expecting from him, he’s a box to box midfielder that is largely being asked to sit at the moment.
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Post by headsgoup on Nov 8, 2024 11:54:36 GMT
He lacks the discipline to be a top drawer DM, the mobility to be a box-to-boxer, or the creativity to be an AM.
That said, he's perfectly fine for a team of our level and there are much bigger problems than him.
Namely, our formation.
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Post by Ron on Nov 8, 2024 12:03:37 GMT
Still laughing at people thinking Lawal will be the second coming having never seen him kick a ball, and him having been injured for a bloody long time.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Nov 8, 2024 12:05:02 GMT
He was ok second half fair enough. But he was non existent in the first half. And that’s being kind. He was also doing the job of 3 players in the first half given that Junho and Moran were even more non existent than he was. The OTT criticism of Burger is baffling to me and when you listen to some of the arseholes sat in the stand, it's ridiculously annoying. I don't get it at all. I don't want to criticise him, but I just don't think he's either as good as some make out or as shit as others. I just think he's beige, and a bit of an unathletic plodder at times who is a walking yellow card. |
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Post by bunnyscfc on Nov 8, 2024 12:06:59 GMT
He lacks the discipline to be a top drawer DM, the mobility to be a box-to-boxer, or the creativity to be an AM. That said, he's perfectly fine for a team of our level and there are much bigger problems than him. Namely, our formation. This is put far better than I have. He's not as big a problem as how we set up and who is alongside him. You simply cannot play Junho and Moran as the others in the middle of the pitch. |
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Post by Ron on Nov 8, 2024 12:07:17 GMT
Being asked to do an impossible job in a 2 man midfield with a no.10. Exactly this- Moran is more of a ten / advanced midfielder to me. There have been times where Burger is trying to play Cm almost on his own. The improvement when there have been 3 cm's on the pitch the last two games has been noticeable. Indeed we went off the boil v Derby when he bought Koumas on. Stick with a variant of 433 please. Seko - Burger - Moran - if any unfit play Sidibe . We can judge lawal when seen him play and if he ever gets off the treatment table. Insane signing. Bae / Koumas cannon milllion Looks the sensible approach. |
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Post by lordb on Nov 8, 2024 12:15:37 GMT
wouldn't play him tomorrow given the ref
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 8, 2024 12:23:17 GMT
Still laughing at people thinking Lawal will be the second coming having never seen him kick a ball, and him having been injured for a bloody long time. I know. The silly cunts. Much better to sit back and say 'I told you so' isn't it? |
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 8, 2024 12:23:41 GMT
wouldn't play him tomorrow given the ref Shay? |
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Post by jokker on Nov 8, 2024 12:28:37 GMT
He came into his own last season when Schuhmacher arrived, although he was doing well before that. So the sacking of SS has shocked him, and now he's being asked to do different things as to what he was last season, where he really became the fulcrum of the team. So in a way he has been demoted, and it's taking him more time than others to get used to or adapting to a new regime.
But he's an intelligent player and should find his way back eventually.
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Post by jokker on Nov 8, 2024 12:32:47 GMT
wouldn't play him tomorrow given the ref Every ref in the universe hates scfc and they're always looking for an excuse to send off a Stokie or two. So you can't make a selection based on who's more likely to be sent off. What you can do is make a special effort in training to make players like Burger not fall into the traps that will be set up. Pick Thompson instead of Burger, and he will promptly be dismissed. |
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Post by jokker on Nov 8, 2024 12:38:16 GMT
If we had him firing like he was then we potentially trouble the top 6. With or without Burger we are already on the verge of troubling the top 6. Results have to be very kind but we could be 7th tomorrow night. The top 6 clubs, or at least the club that is currently 6th, must be losing sleep over us challenging for their spot. Just don't tell the other club that we're not really that good and the position lies... |
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Post by senojbor on Nov 8, 2024 12:43:03 GMT
He worked his socks ofF on Wednesday. I like the fact he can get stuck in and bring the ball forward.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 8, 2024 13:00:58 GMT
He came into his own last season when Schuhmacher arrived, although he was doing well before that. So the sacking of SS has shocked him, and now he's being asked to do different things as to what he was last season, where he really became the fulcrum of the team. So in a way he has been demoted, and it's taking him more time than others to get used to or adapting to a new regime. But he's an intelligent player and should find his way back eventually. He started this season really poorly under Schumacher though. If anything he's shown slight improvement under Pelach. 7 |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Nov 8, 2024 13:08:31 GMT
People arguing that the formation not helping are both right and wrong. It probably gives those in there a little too much to do defensively but, for the moment at least, it's also allowing us to be much better going the other way. It's a risky formation for sure and can leave us looking open (and players like Burger and Moran looking lost and easily beaten), but in the past two games I've seen us break away with precision and pace more than I have for the last two seasons.
We are doing what Schumacher said he would - making the opposition worry about us rather than us really worrying about them. There will be times when we get beaten, and maybe even heavily beaten, but we've already seen the likes of Portsmouth and Derby get completely outplayed by us set up how we are. Norwich could and should have been 3 points as well.
If we want to score goals, I think we're going to have to live with looking a bit open the other way for the time being.
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Post by skip on Nov 8, 2024 13:10:04 GMT
Always separate the lettuce and tomato with something more materially substantial such as bacon.
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Post by Discovery Stoke on Nov 8, 2024 13:17:05 GMT
Anyone noticed how he actually manages to play 90 minutes nowadays.
Under SS he would never play more than 70 odd minutes
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Post by chamberlain on Nov 8, 2024 13:23:23 GMT
He was also doing the job of 3 players in the first half given that Junho and Moran were even more non existent than he was. The OTT criticism of Burger is baffling to me and when you listen to some of the arseholes sat in the stand, it's ridiculously annoying. I don't get it at all. I don't want to criticise him, but I just don't think he's either as good as some make out or as shit as others. I just think he's beige, and a bit of an unathletic plodder at times who is a walking yellow card. This season you are 100% right |
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 8, 2024 13:35:29 GMT
He was ok second half fair enough. But he was non existent in the first half. And that’s being kind. He was also doing the job of 3 players in the first half given that Junho and Moran were even more non existent than he was. The OTT criticism of Burger is baffling to me and when you listen to some of the arseholes sat in the stand, it's ridiculously annoying. I don't get it at all. He’s way off where he was imo. I certainly wouldn’t be abusing him from the stands or anywhere though. I just think he looks a shadow of the player he was for periods last season. Maybe it’s fitness, maybe it’s being asked to do a job that doesn’t suit him or maybe there’s more to it but at times I think he looks way off. I thought the same for parts of the Derby match too. Hopefully I’m way off and there’s no issue whatsoever. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 8, 2024 13:37:13 GMT
I don't 'get' Burger - he doesn't really protect the back 4, he doesn't really offer a threat going forward, he is pretty unathletic for his role.....luckily for us, Cantwell decided for some reason to go deeper and deeper to get on the ball the more the match went on. First half, he completely dominated, and I'd be asking my defensive midfielders just why? It's their job to stop the #10 influencing the game. Second half, Seko did a lot of the hard yards and actually made Burger better just by being athletic and aware. And yet again, Burger's lack of fitness sees him getting a booking as he can't keep up with runners. He's a tidy player when playing well, but nothing more. Seko, in a few games, has shown exactly what we need in there. Hopefully, he'll give Burger the chance to get on the ball and pass it far more than he has. At present, his price tag is looking around £3.5m too much. How well did Seko do once Moran went off? I didn't see him doing any of the hard yards for anyone and he struggled in the midfield battle as much as anyone else. If Burger is struggling to meet the expectations of supporters, I would argue vehemently that it's as much to do with how the team is set up than it is anything to do with his current form or fitness. The manager is asking an awful lot of him at the moment and he's doing OK. If we are going with 2 in midfield, maybe Seko and Burger would be a far better balance than either of them with Moran. Quite how Moran escapes similar criticism is beyond me. If you want to talk about luxuries we can't afford, Moran is the very definition of it. That doesn’t explain his frequent loss of possession either by being caught or giving the ball away. I actually thought at times in the first half Blackburn deliberately targeted him and focused any press on him. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 8, 2024 13:38:20 GMT
So…..what’s the story? Where has the Burger we loved gone?? Against Blackburn he was completely bossed by Cantwell. In general he looks leggy and doesn’t even seem to want the ball. What’s going on? If we had him firing like he was then we potentially trouble the top 6. I’m very very confused. Most of the time he is on his own in midfield and easy to pressurise when he gets the ball, especially as only Stevens is comfortable bringing the ball forward from the back. Moran is okay in possession but poor without it, providing no defensive support. Seek did well on Saturday but didn't have much impact on Wednesday and also lacks physical presence. if we keep playing 4-4-2 with Moran in the middle two, it will eb tough for any midfielder. The hope if Laval of a rejuvenated Pearson can fill the void They’re fair points but he seems so careless in possession that I’m not sure the positional issue is the only problem. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 8, 2024 13:40:53 GMT
If we had him firing like he was then we potentially trouble the top 6. With or without Burger we are already on the verge of troubling the top 6. Results have to be very kind but we could be 7th tomorrow night. The top 6 clubs, or at least the club that is currently 6th, must be losing sleep over us challenging for their spot. Just don't tell the other club that we're not really that good and the position lies... We’re a solid mid table outfit atm. One decent centre back and one dominant midfielder off the top 6 I think. And I don’t see why Burger shouldn’t be that player. But he’s not performing at that level currently, |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 8, 2024 13:51:50 GMT
Anyone noticed how he actually manages to play 90 minutes nowadays. Under SS he would never play more than 70 odd minutes Yep, we're running more and the players seem fitter to me. That's a massive positive...... |
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Nov 8, 2024 13:54:02 GMT
I don't think he's been the same since Blackburn away last season when he came over to applaud the fans after a terrible performance and result and got both barrels in return. Wasn't deserved for his personal performance, he was just a bit naive and didn't read the room before coming over to the fans and took the flack that his team mates and manager deserved.
Don't know whether it's just coincidence but since then his form has dipped noticeably. He was in and out of the team towards the end of last season and this season whilst he's been a regular starter he just hasn't looked at the races and a long way below his standards of the first half of last season. Could it be the mental impact of that game? His bond with the supporters was broken that day and he hasn't been able to find the same motivation to perform for us since?
It's probably coincidence but his decline in form does match up perfectly with that moment. I don't think he's really had a great game for us since.
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Post by senojbor on Nov 8, 2024 13:54:20 GMT
He was ok second half fair enough. But he was non existent in the first half. And that’s being kind. He was also doing the job of 3 players in the first half given that Junho and Moran were even more non existent than he was. The OTT criticism of Burger is baffling to me and when you listen to some of the arseholes sat in the stand, it's ridiculously annoying. I don't get it at all. You must have sat near me. Same idiot was booing at the half time whistle too. Yes, it's annoying |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 8, 2024 14:15:31 GMT
How well did Seko do once Moran went off? I didn't see him doing any of the hard yards for anyone and he struggled in the midfield battle as much as anyone else. If Burger is struggling to meet the expectations of supporters, I would argue vehemently that it's as much to do with how the team is set up than it is anything to do with his current form or fitness. The manager is asking an awful lot of him at the moment and he's doing OK. If we are going with 2 in midfield, maybe Seko and Burger would be a far better balance than either of them with Moran. Quite how Moran escapes similar criticism is beyond me. If you want to talk about luxuries we can't afford, Moran is the very definition of it. That doesn’t explain his frequent loss of possession either by being caught or giving the ball away. I actually thought at times in the first half Blackburn deliberately targeted him and focused any press on him. I'll give you one such example from the Blackburn game then. On about 35 minutes, Burger took the ball in from Enda Stevens, midway between penalty box and half way line. He took the ball lovely on the back foot, enabling him to move forward 5 to 10 yards having lost his marker. He looked for a pass wide to Koumas, looked for one into Moran and looked for one into Junho between the lines. All 3 would have been forward passes that would have opened up the pitch. Koumas stood still, Junho hid directly behind the line of the midfielder and Moran was no option either standing in that nothing position where he was neither a midfielder or a no 8 or 10. Burger subsequently came under pressure, almost lost the ball (he probably did temporarily) before rolling the ball back into Gibson to much derision and some booing from watching the supporters. Just WTF was he supposed to do? I lost my shit at that point and asked the idiot behind who he was supposed to pass the ball to, the Invisible Man? Of all our players that can resist some of the opposition pressure Burger is the man. The best passing teams aren't the best passing teams because they have the best passers of the ball. They are the best passing teams because they move better off the ball than the rest. Our movement ahead of the player in possession is absolutely abysmal and when you are surrounded by a sulking Koumas, a useless Moran and Junho who clearly doesn't understand or like the no10 role yet, the chances of Burger looking anything other than stretched are slim to none. Burger is the least of our midfield worries at present. None of those in that area with him (Moran, Koumas, Junho & Milly) are playing particularly well and none of them are offering anything defensively whatsoever which means Burger has to do the job of 3 or 4 players at times. Despite this, Burger takes all the flak. I just don't get it. It's ludicrous and it drives me mad. I know how you felt now when you felt Walters was so harshly criticised  |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 8, 2024 14:53:29 GMT
Like Cannon wiht Gallagher the test will be hoiw he does alongside Lawal he’s Doing a decent enough job right now against the tide
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Post by idle on Nov 8, 2024 15:01:13 GMT
Like Cannon wiht Gallagher the test will be hoiw he does alongside Lawal he’s Doing a decent enough job right now against the tide So, no pressure on how Lawal does then? What if Lawal is shit, is he still in the "test"? |
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