|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Nov 23, 2024 9:32:36 GMT
I think £8M+ would be stretching it too far when it comes to Cannon. He probably is the best we have had up front for years, but £10M+ for the player he is right now seems ridiculous in my opinion.  How much do we need to pay for Adebayo or Morris at Luton? I think any of those two would fit in well at Stoke.  |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2024 9:36:55 GMT
He’s missing chances. That’s not being a threat. Yes it is. Being in a position to go close indicates he’s a threat. His performance against Portsmouth suggests that, like all good strikers, he’s got the ability to be an excellent finisher. He’s not worth 10 million, 5 is a step too far but he’s absolutely worth 3 million. If we can afford that which I doubt. No it’s not. He doesn’t look like he’ll take the chances. He’s scored in open play in one league game. It suggests he’s not a threat in open play! I’m saying he’s worth 3m. I wouldn’t pay anything over that. Leicester wanted 8-12! |
|
|
|
Post by ravey123 on Nov 23, 2024 9:52:24 GMT
Liam Delap to Chelsea on the rumour mill Which rumour mill? |
|
|
|
Post by independent on Nov 23, 2024 9:59:28 GMT
He’s missing chances. That’s not being a threat. Yes it is. Being in a position to go close indicates he’s a threat. His performance against Portsmouth suggests that, like all good strikers, he’s got the ability to be an excellent finisher. He’s not worth 10 million, 5 is a step too far but he’s absolutely worth 3 million. If we can afford that which I doubt.If we can't afford 3 million then we really are fucked. When you look at the other players that we've had on loan like Delap and Harwood-Bellis, it is hard to understand how we have such a poor team at present. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2024 10:01:36 GMT
Yes it is. Being in a position to go close indicates he’s a threat. His performance against Portsmouth suggests that, like all good strikers, he’s got the ability to be an excellent finisher. He’s not worth 10 million, 5 is a step too far but he’s absolutely worth 3 million. If we can afford that which I doubt.If we can't afford 3 million then we really are fucked. Why are we? You don’t need to be spending much to get out of this league. Spending money guarantees you nothing. 3/4m should be the top end of the fees we’re dealing with. |
|
|
|
Post by MilanStokie on Nov 23, 2024 10:09:33 GMT
I'd suggest the market drives value How much did Simms go for £8m? Ross Stewart the same Who are these Championship goalscorers you can buy for £2m to £3m? It's not 2010 And we should have been nowhere near them either. And Ross Stewart was a bullet dodged. Current top 5 scorers Borja Sainz - free Josh Maja - free Vakoun Bayo - loan but signed for Watford in 2022 for 5m Haji Wright - 8m Joel Piroe - bought into the Championship for a million sold to Leeds for 10 and he ain’t worth that. So proves my point. 3/5 bought into this league for a combined million quid. Bit of a contradiction though mate. You said earlier that you don't buy into this "needing service" stuff. But then you have listed Josh Maja here is a free transfer, suggesting goalscorers don't have to cost. Remind me again what Josh Maja did when at Stoke? Looked lost, largely because he played up front on his own and had next to zero service. Or is there another reason why Maja is now scoring for West Brom and failed to do so for us? |
|
|
|
Post by independent on Nov 23, 2024 10:12:39 GMT
Getting out of this league and staying out are two different things. Sure you can get out of this league with a bit of luck and without spending money, as Luton did, but you are stuck with those players the next season when you are trying to survive in the Premier League. Then you are coming straight down again just like Luton and Sheffield Utd. We should be identifying players that we really want before deciding whether the price is right or not. There are no guarantees with any player but shopping in LIDL and hoping to find a gem is unlikely to be successful.
|
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2024 10:13:41 GMT
And we should have been nowhere near them either. And Ross Stewart was a bullet dodged. Current top 5 scorers Borja Sainz - free Josh Maja - free Vakoun Bayo - loan but signed for Watford in 2022 for 5m Haji Wright - 8m Joel Piroe - bought into the Championship for a million sold to Leeds for 10 and he ain’t worth that. So proves my point. 3/5 bought into this league for a combined million quid. Bit of a contradiction though mate. You said earlier that you don't buy into this "needing service" stuff. But then you have listed Josh Maja here is a free transfer, suggesting goalscorers don't have to cost. Remind me again what Josh Maja did when at Stoke? Looked lost, largely because he played up front on his own and had next to zero service. Or is there another reason why Maja is now scoring for West Brom and failed to do so for us? I liked Maja 🤣 He didn’t get fit in time. I’d have had him back. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2024 10:14:43 GMT
Getting out of this league and staying out are two different things. Sure you can get out of this league with a bit of luck and without spending money, as Luton did, but you are stuck with those players the next season when you are trying to survive in the Premier League. Then you are coming straight down again just like Luton and Sheffield Utd. We can’t finish mid table dude. 🤣 |
|
|
|
Post by MilanStokie on Nov 23, 2024 10:22:59 GMT
IMO, getting the right loans in is the most important thing in terms of gaining promotion in this league. This is why I can't stand the idea when people say not to play them or they are blocking one of our own. It is the only way to get the extra quality without having to spend.
Unfortunately, it seems top teams can easily derail a promotion push of a team by recalling players to make a quick buck.
Spending £8m+ I can get on board with, for the right player. But that sort of player has aspirations far greater than a team in the 2nd tier and one that will be in a relegation fight if they go up, so if that £8m player does well, you are automatically struggling to keep hold of him even if you are promoted.
People laughed at Forest when they went on a spending spree, but the way things are right now, I think that is the way to go. Don't overspend in the Championship, seek out the best young loans and if you are promoted, SPEND.
|
|
|
|
Post by independent on Nov 23, 2024 10:26:19 GMT
Because we are just hoping to strike it lucky as Forest did after 16 years. We are appointing poor managers and then not giving them time to get it right. We have been looking for instant promotion since we came down. See where that has got us. I just hope our present manager has a rabbit's foot.
|
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2024 10:32:02 GMT
IMO, getting the right loans in is the most important thing in terms of gaining promotion in this league. This is why I can't stand the idea when people say not to play them or they are blocking one of our own. It is the only way to get the extra quality without having to spend. Unfortunately, it seems top teams can easily derail a promotion push of a team by recalling players to make a quick buck. Spending £8m+ I can get on board with, for the right player. But that sort of player has aspirations far greater than a team in the 2nd tier and one that will be in a relegation fight if they go up, so if that £8m player does well, you are automatically struggling to keep hold of him even if you are promoted. People laughed at Forest when they went on a spending spree, but the way things are right now, I think that is the way to go. Don't overspend in the Championship, seek out the best young loans and if you are promoted, SPEND. Agree and that’s why the loans have to be better than what you have and we’ve struggled with that massively since coming down. This year it seems we’ve got it right. Phillips is the best centre half at the club. Moran is decent. And an improvement on Cundle. Cannon is better than Ennis. Koumas is better than Ennis but also bette than Cannon imo. And that’s the only iffy one, Cannon. He’s probably the most expensive and I’d rather Koumas played centrally. |
|
|
|
Post by degoeystache on Nov 23, 2024 10:33:27 GMT
It looks like Ugbo was a bullet dodged as well. 3 mill and he’s played 14 games and not scored yet unlike last season where he banged them in on loan.
|
|
|
|
Post by idle on Nov 23, 2024 10:44:16 GMT
It looks like Ugbo was a bullet dodged as well. 3 mill and he’s played 14 games and not scored yet unlike last season where he banged them in on loan. That only tells you that: 1. Players have ups and downs in form. He might find his form, but IMO it depends on: 2. The team actually matters much, much more than single players Same with Maja |
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Nov 23, 2024 11:17:57 GMT
Yes it is. Being in a position to go close indicates he’s a threat. His performance against Portsmouth suggests that, like all good strikers, he’s got the ability to be an excellent finisher. He’s not worth 10 million, 5 is a step too far but he’s absolutely worth 3 million. If we can afford that which I doubt.If we can't afford 3 million then we really are fucked. When you look at the other players that we've had on loan like Delap and Harwood-Bellis, it is hard to understand how we have such a poor team at present. Maybe we do have the money but I’m not sure we can spend it. Though I admit I’m in the dark about what we can and can’t do financially. |
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Nov 23, 2024 11:19:33 GMT
Strikers are a product of their systems.
Maja and Delap were poor here but excellent elsewhere.
Cannon will fly or fail depending on if our system suits him.
|
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2024 11:31:13 GMT
Strikers are a product of their systems. Maja and Delap were poor here but excellent elsewhere. Cannon will fly or fail depending on if our system suits him. He keeps missing easy chances. That’s on him. |
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on Nov 23, 2024 11:42:08 GMT
Strikers are a product of their systems. Maja and Delap were poor here but excellent elsewhere. Cannon will fly or fail depending on if our system suits him. He keeps missing easy chances. That’s on him. Seven goals in thirteen appearances. Better than one in two. Goals from the penalty spot and free kicks still count as a goal the last time I checked. So long as he’s getting into positions to score then he’s going to be the first Stoke player in a long, long time to get 20+ in a season. |
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Nov 23, 2024 11:50:52 GMT
He keeps missing easy chances. That’s on him. Seven goals in thirteen appearances. Better than one in two. Goals from the penalty spot and free kicks still count as a goal the last time I checked. So long as he’s getting into positions to score then he’s going to be the first Stoke player in a long, long time to get 20+ in a season. At least Cannon seems able score from penalties which we have struggled with in the past as well!  |
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on Nov 23, 2024 11:53:34 GMT
Seven goals in thirteen appearances. Better than one in two. Goals from the penalty spot and free kicks still count as a goal the last time I checked. So long as he’s getting into positions to score then he’s going to be the first Stoke player in a long, long time to get 20+ in a season. At least Cannon seems able score from penalties which we have struggled with in the past as well! It’s also interesting that goals in open play against Premier League opposition in cup matches don’t seem to count either. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Nov 23, 2024 11:54:41 GMT
I'd suggest the market drives value How much did Simms go for £8m? Ross Stewart the same Who are these Championship goalscorers you can buy for £2m to £3m? It's not 2010 And we should have been nowhere near them either. And Ross Stewart was a bullet dodged. Current top 5 scorers Borja Sainz - free Josh Maja - free Vakoun Bayo - loan but signed for Watford in 2022 for 5m Haji Wright - 8m Joel Piroe - bought into the Championship for a million sold to Leeds for 10 and he ain’t worth that. So proves my point. 3/5 bought into this league for a combined million quid. Joel Piroe going for £10m disproves your point completely How is £10m the same as £3m? Absurd |
|
|
|
Post by idle on Nov 23, 2024 11:55:06 GMT
Strikers are a product of their systems. Maja and Delap were poor here but excellent elsewhere. Cannon will fly or fail depending on if our system suits him. He keeps missing easy chances. That’s on him.
Let's compare him to Maja then:
| Non-pen Goals
| Games
| Non-pen xG
| Shots
| On target
| xG on-taget
| Regular play chances
| | Cannon | 3 | 11 | 4.90 | 27 | 13 | 5.33 | 11 | | Maja | 8
| 15
| 8.25
| 34
| 14
| 8.59
| 27
|
I think he's doing alright, but isn't really getting the good (or "easy" as you call them) chances. Only 11 chances from open play is 1 per game. Maja has double that, and better chances as both xG and "xG on target" is higher. Your excuse for Maja when he was here is the same for Cannon, he's still getting his match sharpness up. But he should be scoring more, and I think he will in time. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Nov 23, 2024 11:55:35 GMT
I think £8M+ would be stretching it too far when it comes to Cannon. He probably is the best we have had up front for years, but £10M+ for the player he is right now seems ridiculous in my opinion. How much do we need to pay for Adebayo or Morris at Luton? I think any of those two would fit in well at Stoke. Presumably Luton would ask for at least £8m for Morris |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Nov 23, 2024 11:55:57 GMT
Liam Delap to Chelsea on the rumour mill Which rumour mill? BBC |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Nov 23, 2024 11:57:25 GMT
Strikers are a product of their systems. Maja and Delap were poor here but excellent elsewhere. Cannon will fly or fail depending on if our system suits him. He keeps missing easy chances. That’s on him. All the best strikers do Bad ones let it bother them Stein missed loads but is easily the best strikers we've had in the last 50 years |
|
|
|
Post by chamberlain on Nov 23, 2024 12:02:31 GMT
If we can't afford 3 million then we really are fucked. Why are we? You don’t need to be spending much to get out of this league. Spending money guarantees you nothing. 3/4m should be the top end of the fees we’re dealing with. Exactly , it just means that scouts and recruitment need to do their job properly. |
|
|
|
Post by independent on Nov 23, 2024 12:22:43 GMT
Why are we? You don’t need to be spending much to get out of this league. Spending money guarantees you nothing. 3/4m should be the top end of the fees we’re dealing with. Exactly , it just means that scouts and recruitment need to do their job properly. I think that is easy to say. The world has changed and changed utterly. The days of signing a Kevin Keegan or Phil Neal for buttons is long gone. We now have players from all over the world playing in the Premier League. I doubt if there is a player of any consequence anywhere in the world that someone doesn't have a dossier on.So forget about signing cheap gems. Players are being snapped up by Clubs when they are as young as 14, when the most that can be said about a player is that he is promising. For God's sake ,you don't even know what height he will reach at 14. It is now very difficult for any club to develop and profit from a young talent. He will either be poached or you will receive a small fee or else he will leave on a Free. It is very noticeable that a lot of European Clubs are now having to lower the price that they are seeking to move players on. Even Brighton aren't getting cheap players. |
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 23, 2024 12:26:02 GMT
Liam Delap to Chelsea on the rumour mill Which rumour mill? The big one 😉 found its way to the BBC now |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2024 13:11:47 GMT
He keeps missing easy chances. That’s on him. Seven goals in thirteen appearances. Better than one in two. Goals from the penalty spot and free kicks still count as a goal the last time I checked. So long as he’s getting into positions to score then he’s going to be the first Stoke player in a long, long time to get 20+ in a season. I never used to count penalties because they should be scored 🤣 He just looks shite. |
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Nov 23, 2024 13:12:32 GMT
Strikers are a product of their systems. Maja and Delap were poor here but excellent elsewhere. Cannon will fly or fail depending on if our system suits him. He keeps missing easy chances. That’s on him. He’s missed maybe 3 “easy” chances. His movement creates problems for teams. His energy and physicality are a problem for even the most physical centre backs at this level. He’s doing well. |
|
How much do we need to pay for Adebayo or Morris at Luton? I think any of those two would fit in well at Stoke. 
