|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 28, 2024 10:31:01 GMT
So are you proposing: 1 Organise a demonstration that forces the owners out and take the chance that they don't just wind up the club or sell to the first asset stripper they can find? 2 Organise a fan buy out. 3 Identify better, new owners and work with them to oust the current owners. I'll consider helping out if it's the last 2 but if its the first it really isnt a good plan. In fact it really doesn't qualify as a plan at all - its just an act of self harm. They wouldn't sell to asset strippers - their family legacy would go down in flames and for all their faults, they do care about the area. Stoke on Trent is one of the poorest areas in the UK to have a professional football club the size and stature of Stoke City. There isn't the money for a fan buy out. I do wish John Coates would employ someone to run the fucking club though. Just enjoy owning the club but step away from making the big decisions. The OP said when are the fans going to turn on the owners. He didn't say when are the fans going to have a nice chat with John Coates and persuade him to step down but keep bank rolling rhe club. If you were John Coates and the fans turned on you what would you do? If it was me I'd listen to my sister tell the fans to fuck off, sell up go on a world cruise with the money I've saved. If anyone is thinking they can go for the owner expecting them just to merely step aside and carry on writing the cheques must think the owner is a complete gimp. If he's got any self respect he'd walk away. |
|
|
|
Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Oct 28, 2024 10:41:31 GMT
Derby really is a must win. I really fear that the crowd will turn if we get less than 3 points. I've always said that targeting individual players is counterproductive and will destroy their confidence. Let's keep everything crossed that we get 3 points, removing some of the pressure from Pelach and the team. It's a massive game, it's not a must win. We're at home to a newly promoted team and the points we have so far is worrying. The table suggests that we're very close to getting dragged into a relegation scrap, so I would say it's a must win to give everyone a bit more confidence. Morale must be low and it needs to be boosted asap. I don't care how we win and if it's not pleasing on the eye. |
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 28, 2024 10:45:18 GMT
It's a massive game, it's not a must win. We're at home to a newly promoted team and the points we have so far is worrying. The table suggests that we're very close to getting dragged into a relegation scrap, so I would say it's a must win to give everyone a bit more confidence. Morale must be low and it needs to be boosted asap. I don't care how we win and if it's not pleasing on the eye. I get all that, it's just not a must win. If we played well and came away with a 1-1 draw it wouldn't be season defining. |
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 28, 2024 10:50:01 GMT
Snoop Dogg are you reading this?
|
|
|
|
Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Oct 28, 2024 10:50:46 GMT
We're at home to a newly promoted team and the points we have so far is worrying. The table suggests that we're very close to getting dragged into a relegation scrap, so I would say it's a must win to give everyone a bit more confidence. Morale must be it needs to be boosted asap. I don't care how we win and if it's not pleasing on the eye. I get all that, it's just not a must win. If we played well and came away with a 1-1 draw it wouldn't be season defining. No, it won't define the season but massively important for the team's confidence and may relieve a bit of pressure on Pelach. I can't see us getting more than 3 points against Blackburn and Millwall, and don't want dragging into a relegation battle. |
|
|
|
Post by pulismaskreplica on Oct 28, 2024 11:09:14 GMT
I get all that, it's just not a must win. If we played well and came away with a 1-1 draw it wouldn't be season defining. No, it won't define the season but massively important for the team's confidence and may relieve a bit of pressure on Pelach. I can't see us getting more than 3 points against Blackburn and Millwall, and don't want dragging into a relegation battle. Yep totally agree It’s not a must win in one sense because we’re only Oct/Nov but the context and impact of a defeat could really knock the confidence of manager, players and fans and for that reason I see it as a must win too |
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Oct 28, 2024 11:27:27 GMT
I don’t think many would be seeking change if the financial rules change in our favour? I certainly would, under his tenure we’ve spent crazy money on absolute shite players, a fool is always a fool in my book. |
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 28, 2024 11:29:45 GMT
No, it won't define the season but massively important for the team's confidence and may relieve a bit of pressure on Pelach. I can't see us getting more than 3 points against Blackburn and Millwall, and don't want dragging into a relegation battle. Yep totally agree It’s not a must win in one sense because we’re only Oct/Nov but the context and impact of a defeat could really knock the confidence of manager, players and fans and for that reason I see it as a must win too Maybe its more of a must not lose rather than a must win... |
|
|
|
Post by tuum on Oct 28, 2024 11:45:15 GMT
Derby really is a must win. I really fear that the crowd will turn if we get less than 3 points. I've always said that targeting individual players is counterproductive and will destroy their confidence. Let's keep everything crossed that we get 3 points, removing some of the pressure from Pelach and the team. Fanciful notion that..but you are a sensible bloke and know that already. If we concede early then everyone will feel the tension. If we play shite and and are losing some people will not be able to control their emotions.. it will get messy. The players will go into their shells and we will struggle to turn it around. Personally, I think it is too early to be frothing at the mouth, spitting feathers etc. I reckon NP needed 6 games to get his ideas across. Another 4 to show some improvement and another 10 (to Xmas?) to get us away from the relegation zone. Currently, he is behind the curve. |
|
|
|
Post by skip on Oct 28, 2024 12:05:45 GMT
They wouldn't sell to asset strippers - their family legacy would go down in flames and for all their faults, they do care about the area. Stoke on Trent is one of the poorest areas in the UK to have a professional football club the size and stature of Stoke City. There isn't the money for a fan buy out. I do wish John Coates would employ someone to run the fucking club though. Just enjoy owning the club but step away from making the big decisions. The OP said when are the fans going to turn on the owners. He didn't say when are the fans going to have a nice chat with John Coates and persuade him to step down but keep bank rolling rhe club. If you were John Coates and the fans turned on you what would you do? If it was me I'd listen to my sister tell the fans to fuck off, sell up go on a world cruise with the money I've saved. If anyone is thinking they can go for the owner expecting them just to merely step aside and carry on writing the cheques must think the owner is a complete gimp. If he's got any self respect he'd walk away. If he had any self awareness, he'd get smarter people to help run the club with him. |
|
|
|
Post by GeneralFaye on Oct 28, 2024 12:09:38 GMT
I wouldn't trust Jon Coates to get me cup of tea. He's the main problem at this club and failed the "eye test" when I saw him speak publicly for the first time a few years ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by anchorman on Oct 28, 2024 12:37:04 GMT
Momentum is everything and we don’t posses any. The players appear to be visibly lacking in confidence so I think it is vitally important that we somehow find a way to win on Saturday whatever it takes. We lost to a very average Sheff U team & more importantly failed to win any of the previous three matches. Regarding the bigger picture & will the fans turn. We’ve had 7/8 years of abject failure & under achievement on an industrial scale. Back in the day, there would be demonstrations against the board, The Waddo stormed & smashed up and for far less than we’ve had to endure since 2015/16. Apathy now reigns and folk will just continue to drift away leaving a near empty stadium. People have forgotten how to demonstrate or don’t know where to vent their anger. And if you sack your manager 5 games in when fans are not calling for his head, questioning some decisions maybe (that always happens) then there is absolutely no margin for error whatsoever. It has to work & it has to be successful. Right now that’s not the case. For me the biggest issue is that there is absolutely nothing to get behind. There’s a huge vacuum and it’s heartbreaking. The fans were right behind SS and it felt as if the culture and the re connection of club, players & fans was growing. It’s been snatched away and I don’t see it recovering unfortunately. It’s not NP’s fault that he was given the job but he looks like he’s out of his depth and we look like a relegation threatened team. It’s not good enough and it hasn’t been good enough for a very long time.
|
|
|
|
Post by stokiejoe on Oct 28, 2024 12:49:46 GMT
Agree that J Coates couldn't run a pub buthedoent need to. We benefit from his money and would be worse off without it.
Whether offside Walters and Penach survive until Christmas is a different question. I don't like the Football Director and Gead Coach set up and much prefer an autonomous manager.
That said it has to be the right manager and I did hope that Schumacher was the one. Sadly that didn't work out.
We need a miracle worker but there are none about and even of there were I doubt they would want the job.
In answer to the title question I would say Christmas at the latest if we are in or near the drop zone.
Hope I'm wrong
|
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 12:59:26 GMT
But we also can't continue how we are. We've got a complete lack of experience at the top of the club, certainly the football arm (you know, the bit we're most bothered about!) It's been 8 years of circling the drain.I know, people keep saying. It's frustrating, I get it. We've tried experience, we've tried up and coming, we've now gone foreign it's not for the lack of trying. How come one of the biggest clubs in the world Man Utd can't just devise a successful strategy to get back on track if it's that easy? Yet had we won at Villa Park in December 2018, which our performance actually merited, we'd have gone above them and been in touching distance of the play offs. Alas we didn't, they made the play offs and now sit top of the Champions League. They've certainly got it right. All in the meantime with scary foreign owners who must want to strip it's assets at the first chance. |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:04:17 GMT
Let’s face it we are not play off material by far and hopefully not relegation but lower mid table. The bloke has a painfully thin and inexperienced squad to work with and desperately needs some injuries to clear up. Also we need to dig in until January and hope we could make a couple of decent additions. I think with that we can survive and hopefully steady the ship. The season is really over other than trying to consolidate. We are desperate for a couple of wins though in the next few games. We've said this repeatedly at this time of the year for the last 3/4 years though. It's like fucking groundhog day every season. |
|
|
|
Post by mamathestriker on Oct 28, 2024 13:06:50 GMT
Let’s face it we are not play off material by far and hopefully not relegation but lower mid table. The bloke has a painfully thin and inexperienced squad to work with and desperately needs some injuries to clear up. Also we need to dig in until January and hope we could make a couple of decent additions. I think with that we can survive and hopefully steady the ship. The season is really over other than trying to consolidate. We are desperate for a couple of wins though in the next few games. We've said this repeatedly at this time of the year for the last 3/4 years though. It's like fucking groundhog day every season. Groundhog Day where every decision feels slightly worse every time you watch. I've got serious doubts about Pelach. Walters has messed up. Coates isn't a leader. So worrying. |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:06:55 GMT
We're at home to a newly promoted team and the points we have so far is worrying. The table suggests that we're very close to getting dragged into a relegation scrap, so I would say it's a must win to give everyone a bit more confidence. Morale must be low and it needs to be boosted asap. I don't care how we win and if it's not pleasing on the eye. I get all that, it's just not a must win. If we played well and came away with a 1-1 draw it wouldn't be season defining. I'd argue for the head coach it is, the previous incumbent was sacked after 7 wins in 10. Failure to win on Saturday would mean 1 win in 8 for NP, that's not a good look at all. |
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 28, 2024 13:07:46 GMT
I know, people keep saying. It's frustrating, I get it. We've tried experience, we've tried up and coming, we've now gone foreign it's not for the lack of trying. How come one of the biggest clubs in the world Man Utd can't just devise a successful strategy to get back on track if it's that easy? Yet had we won at Villa Park in December 2018, which our performance actually merited, we'd have gone above them and been in touching distance of the play offs. Alas we didn't, they made the play offs and now sit top of the Champions League. They've certainly got it right. All in the meantime with scary foreign owners who must want to strip it's assets at the first chance. Those scary foreign owners are getting heavily criticised for pricing the average Villa fan out of games, they're having their best spell in 40 odd years and are struggling to fill their stadium currently.... |
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 28, 2024 13:09:40 GMT
I get all that, it's just not a must win. If we played well and came away with a 1-1 draw it wouldn't be season defining. I'd argue for the head coach it is, the previous incumbent was sacked after 7 wins in 10. Failure to win on Saturday would mean 1 win in 8 for NP, that's not a good look at all. Yep 7 in 10 over 2 seasons including cup games and dead rubbers. Also including 2 shocking performances against Oxford and Watford. The stats are the stats but like always they don't tell the full story....... |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:20:42 GMT
I'd argue for the head coach it is, the previous incumbent was sacked after 7 wins in 10. Failure to win on Saturday would mean 1 win in 8 for NP, that's not a good look at all. Yep 7 in 10 over 2 seasons including cup games and dead rubbers. Also including 2 shocking performances against Oxford and Watford. The stats are the stats but like always they don't tell the full story....... they weren't dead rubbers though, without those wins against Southampton and Plymouth, we'd have been down? The only dead rubber was Bristol City but we still won the game and won 3 points, regardless of whether it actually meant anything in terms of staying up. This current HC has had pretty much 6 shocking performances and 1 freak result against a terrible pompey. How much longer does he get if we carry on not winning games and facing 20+ shots a game whilst we're at it? |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:23:38 GMT
Yet had we won at Villa Park in December 2018, which our performance actually merited, we'd have gone above them and been in touching distance of the play offs. Alas we didn't, they made the play offs and now sit top of the Champions League. They've certainly got it right. All in the meantime with scary foreign owners who must want to strip it's assets at the first chance. Those scary foreign owners are getting heavily criticised for pricing the average Villa fan out of games, they're having their best spell in 40 odd years and are struggling to fill their stadium currently.... Yeah you're right, we're much better off over paying for shite football in the bottom 6 of the championship  |
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 28, 2024 13:27:11 GMT
Yep 7 in 10 over 2 seasons including cup games and dead rubbers. Also including 2 shocking performances against Oxford and Watford. The stats are the stats but like always they don't tell the full story....... they weren't dead rubbers though, without those wins against Southampton and Plymouth, we'd have been down? The only dead rubber was Bristol City but we still won the game and won 3 points, regardless of whether it actually meant anything in terms of staying up. Yes the Bristol City game was a dead rubber. I just don't see how comparing a record over 2 seasons helps with anything, the 2 embarrassing performances were in the last few games of his reign and it seems fairly common knowledge now that SS didn't see eye top eye with JW and JW himself was unhappy with SS behind the scenes which is why they've gone in a different direction. Time will tell whether that works out but 7/8 games is certainly not the time to judge imo. If we'd judged SS after 12 games he may have got the boot after gaining 12 points and losing 6 out of 7 games. Everyone just needs to relax a little....... |
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 28, 2024 13:29:23 GMT
Those scary foreign owners are getting heavily criticised for pricing the average Villa fan out of games, they're having their best spell in 40 odd years and are struggling to fill their stadium currently.... Yeah you're right, we're much better off over paying for shite football in the bottom 6 of the championship But that the point I was making was it? You mentioned Villa, I merely highlighted that despite their current lofty position many regular fans aren't happy as they are being replaced by day trippers..... |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:31:42 GMT
they weren't dead rubbers though, without those wins against Southampton and Plymouth, we'd have been down? The only dead rubber was Bristol City but we still won the game and won 3 points, regardless of whether it actually meant anything in terms of staying up. Yes the Bristol City game was a dead rubber. I just don't see how comparing a record over 2 seasons helps with anything, the 2 embarrassing performances were in the last few games of his reign and it seems fairly common knowledge now that SS didn't see eye top eye with JW and JW himself was unhappy with SS behind the scenes which is why they've gone in a different direction. Time will tell whether that works out but 7/8 games is certainly not the time to judge imo. If we'd judged SS after 12 games he may have got the boot after gaining 12 points and losing 6 out of 7 games. Everyone just needs to relax a little....... He did end up getting the boot though, after turning it around and seemingly having us going in the right direction, albeit slowly and amidst some stinkers like you've already highlighted. The signs with Pelach are massively worrying though, the sheer number of shots we face each match is just not sustainable. if he doesn't win any of the next three, surely he has to go? |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:33:23 GMT
Yeah you're right, we're much better off over paying for shite football in the bottom 6 of the championship But that the point I was making was it? You mentioned Villa, I merely highlighted that despite their current lofty position many regular fans aren't happy as they are being replaced by day trippers..... Price of success I'm afraid, it's just how it is. Let's not forget when we got promoted, we went from averaging 15k to 28k overnight, a lot of those were day trippers and people who'd never been a game before. I even know of a few vale fans that got season tickets and a few glory hunters who suddenly switched from Spurs/Castle/Utd to go Stoke every week. |
|
|
|
Post by mamathestriker on Oct 28, 2024 13:35:34 GMT
Yes the Bristol City game was a dead rubber. I just don't see how comparing a record over 2 seasons helps with anything, the 2 embarrassing performances were in the last few games of his reign and it seems fairly common knowledge now that SS didn't see eye top eye with JW and JW himself was unhappy with SS behind the scenes which is why they've gone in a different direction. Time will tell whether that works out but 7/8 games is certainly not the time to judge imo. If we'd judged SS after 12 games he may have got the boot after gaining 12 points and losing 6 out of 7 games. Everyone just needs to relax a little....... He did end up getting the boot though, after turning it around and seemingly having us going in the right direction, albeit slowly and amidst some stinkers like you've already highlighted. The signs with Pelach are massively worrying though, the sheer number of shots we face each match is just not sustainable. if he doesn't win any of the next three, surely he has to go? Pelach was, I assume, brought into improve results and performances. Granted it's early days, but he hasn't done either yet. Giving up 20+ shots a game, more than Rotherham last season, is a hugely worrying sign, as is our general play. I do understand the "give this time" point, but it needs to feel like it's getting better doesn't it? |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:37:53 GMT
He did end up getting the boot though, after turning it around and seemingly having us going in the right direction, albeit slowly and amidst some stinkers like you've already highlighted. The signs with Pelach are massively worrying though, the sheer number of shots we face each match is just not sustainable. if he doesn't win any of the next three, surely he has to go? Pelach was, I assume, brought into improve results and performances. Granted it's early days, but he hasn't done either yet. Giving up 20+ shots a game, more than Rotherham last season, is a hugely worrying sign, as is our general play. I do understand the "give this time" point, but it needs to feel like it's getting better doesn't it? Exactly mate. |
|
|
|
Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 28, 2024 13:42:41 GMT
Agree that J Coates couldn't run a pub buthedoent need to. We benefit from his money and would be worse off without it. Whether offside Walters and Penach survive until Christmas is a different question. I don't like the Football Director and Gead Coach set up and much prefer an autonomous manager. That said it has to be the right manager and I did hope that Schumacher was the one. Sadly that didn't work out. We need a miracle worker but there are none about and even of there were I doubt they would want the job. In answer to the title question I would say Christmas at the latest if we are in or near the drop zone. Hope I'm wrong I can't see why no one would take the job,very good salary,large payout if sacked. |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 28, 2024 13:49:55 GMT
He did end up getting the boot though, after turning it around and seemingly having us going in the right direction, albeit slowly and amidst some stinkers like you've already highlighted. The signs with Pelach are massively worrying though, the sheer number of shots we face each match is just not sustainable. if he doesn't win any of the next three, surely he has to go? Pelach was, I assume, brought into improve results and performances. Granted it's early days, but he hasn't done either yet. Giving up 20+ shots a game, more than Rotherham last season, is a hugely worrying sign, as is our general play. I do understand the "give this time" point, but it needs to feel like it's getting better doesn't it? The proof is in the pudding as they say. Those lines are heading in the wrong direction as each week passes. |
|
|
|
Post by Los Alfareros on Oct 28, 2024 14:07:46 GMT
Well fuck me it didn't take long to get to this point again did it??
Whilst I am praying for a massive turnaround, it does start to look like sacking Shuey for Pelach was a huge dropping of the testicle variety.
3000 sheepshaggers giving it large on Satdee at 2 o'clock will probably do it for most.
At least we can go pub all day.
|
|
