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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 27, 2024 8:38:28 GMT
I didn't watch yesterday's game, but as soon as I saw the line-up I predicted what would happen.
A 2 man midfield would be walked through again, and 3 central defenders would be backing off to their own penalty box, meaning most of the game would be played in the area between the halfway line and our penalty area. It would only be a matter of time before Sheff Utd scored.
With 1 man up-front, and that man being Tom Cannon, we'd have no out ball, so that would only result in the ball coming back into our half as soon as we cleared it.
I haven't checked the stats, but I'm guessing that's how it played out?
Anyway, the stats from previous games don't lie. We've been dominated by every side we've played against other than Portsmouth. That was the game when we had Gallagher fit: the target man needed to make a 4-4-2 work. Having someone who the ball sticks to up front means our defenders, who are pretty shit on the ball, can afford to go long, bypass the midfield and move the game into the opponent's half. Ideally though, we need 2 extremely fit centre-mids (not got them) and 2 wingers who can get up and down the line getting crosses in (not got them), so to be honest I don't know why we persisted with this for as long as we did. We just haven't got the players for it.
So what should we do instead? Ideally, I'd play either 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3, but again we need a forward who the ball sticks to. The defence can't be trusted to pass the ball out because they're abysmal. Going more direct is the safer option. Gallagher leading the line with a lively 2 or 3 behind him (Manhoef, Junho, Koumas) picking up the pieces would, in my opinion, turn us from the dross we're witnessing now to a top-half side.
Without Gallagher though, we need to revert to 4-3-3 immediately. If Burger plays CDM we'll have someone within range of the defence who can pick the ball up from them fairly safely and transition the ball from defence to attack. We should play Junho and Manhoef as inside forwards cutting in from either wing and try to get the full-backs overlapping a bit to give us width (Easier on the left than the right if we're having to play Wilmot at RB). It's not ideal, but in Gallagher's absence, Koumas should lead the line. He's hardworking, stronger than Cannon, and has the pace to get in behind.
We're not going to trouble the top of the table, but this, in my opinion, would see us staying out of trouble this year. If the manager doesn't sort it out within the next couple of games, then he has to go before he causes any more damage.
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skidog
Academy Starlet
Posts: 182
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Post by skidog on Oct 27, 2024 8:50:05 GMT
I didn't watch yesterday's game, but as soon as I saw the line-up I predicted what would happen. A 2 man midfield would be walked through again, and 3 central defenders would be backing off to their own penalty box, meaning most of the game would be played in the area between the halfway line and our penalty area. It would only be a matter of time before Sheff Utd scored. With 1 man up-front, and that man being Tom Cannon, we'd have no out ball, so that would only result in the ball coming back into our half as soon as we cleared it. I haven't checked the stats, but I'm guessing that's how it played out? Anyway, the stats from previous games don't lie. We've been dominated by every side we've played against other than Portsmouth. That was the game when we had Gallagher fit: the target man needed to make a 4-4-2 work. Having someone who the ball sticks to up front means our defenders, who are pretty shit on the ball, can afford to go long, bypass the midfield and move the game into the opponent's half. Ideally though, we need 2 extremely fit centre-mids (not got them) and 2 wingers who can get up and down the line getting crosses in (not got them), so to be honest I don't know why we persisted with this for as long as we did. We just haven't got the players for it. So what should we do instead? Ideally, I'd play either 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3, but again we need a forward who the ball sticks to. The defence can't be trusted to pass the ball out because they're abysmal. Going more direct is the safer option. Gallagher leading the line with a lively 2 or 3 behind him (Manhoef, Junho, Koumas) picking up the pieces would, in my opinion, turn us from the dross we're witnessing now to a top-half side. Without Gallagher though, we need to revert to 4-3-3 immediately. If Burger plays CDM we'll have someone within range of the defence who can pick the ball up from them fairly safely and transition the ball from defence to attack. We should play Junho and Manhoef as inside forwards cutting in from either wing and try to get the full-backs overlapping a bit to give us width (Easier on the left than the right if we're having to play Wilmot at RB). It's not ideal, but in Gallagher's absence, Koumas should lead the line. He's hardworking, stronger than Cannon, and has the pace to get in behind. We're not going to trouble the top of the table, but this, in my opinion, would see us staying out of trouble this year. If the manager doesn't sort it out within the next couple of games, then he has to go before he causes any more damage. You need to pray that the manager/coach reads this messageboard 🙄 |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 27, 2024 9:00:55 GMT
Thing is they don’t walk through anyone it’s not how they play and that’s not what happened yesterday , we were just simply outmuscled every single player except possibly Phillips who could be given a admirable draw given his opponent , lost their physical battle , when that happens tactics nor talent matter . Its not a lack of effort just physicality De Souza should have had a second yellow for constantly man handling Million , but we are just not equipped for this league or indeed the one below with the type of team he put out yesterday . We can afford the mix of the team he put out .Ruuning is fine but if you can’t compete r physically your still losing as it means we need to score the perfect goal and will always concede
`then there’s junior bo more a wingback than i am , he has the physicality but the ball is liteally his enemy and it gets worse the further forward he goes hiosfoirst half shot that of a struggling under 6 who cant kick thwe ball yet .
The manager needs to adopt a backs too the wall approach , pack the midfield. With more to try and drag us to 25 points by xmas if he os to save so job but I really cant see it
Depsite how cortical i think Gooch will help more than Pearson on that front but the longest to goes with these as pur fot players which is the international break at a very very minimum we are not winnning and two more crucial home games against immediate rivals have passed by
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Post by bjarnig on Oct 27, 2024 9:24:49 GMT
When you're dealt a terrible hand it doesn't really matter that much what your tactics are.
This is such an unbalanced weak untalented squad it's beyond belief.
Until the recruitment is sorted then we will be 16th at best and League 1 if the wheels fall off.
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Post by jordan2009 on Oct 27, 2024 9:43:59 GMT
NPs insistence on playing a two man midfield. We have got to start winning the battle in midfield and stop teams steam rolling through us
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Post by jordan2009 on Oct 27, 2024 9:45:21 GMT
When you're dealt a terrible hand it doesn't really matter that much what your tactics are. This is such an unbalanced weak untalented squad it's beyond belief. Until the recruitment is sorted then we will be 16th at best and League 1 if the wheels fall off. Absolutely shocking summer of recruitment, or lack of recruitment. Walters needs have a very good January |
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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 27, 2024 9:46:45 GMT
When you're dealt a terrible hand it doesn't really matter that much what your tactics are. This is such an unbalanced weak untalented squad it's beyond belief. Until the recruitment is sorted then we will be 16th at best and League 1 if the wheels fall off. Schumacher had this same set of players performing better on virtually every single metric. The right tactics are vital. (And I don't disagree at all that the squad is unbalanced and weak.) |
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Post by smithypotter on Oct 27, 2024 10:15:42 GMT
We're also absolutely terrified of making a challenge when the opposition is running directly at us. The defenders might as well stay on the goal line they drop that far deep. Is this a tactical thing or are the players just simply too scared or know they're not good enough to match them physically?
I refuse to believe that any professional at this level can't show some gamesmanship every now and then to break up the play. The Bristol game was infuriating for this especially.
When it's led to people checking on Pearsons injury and when he'll be match fit you know things are really bad.
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Post by tqstokie on Oct 27, 2024 10:20:34 GMT
The midfielders need to get closer to their men and tackle harder but fairly with plenty of weight behind the ball. Our midfield seems so powder puff, opposition players walking through tackles and causing no end of problems. They need to man up and mean it when they tackle.
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Post by canadianmoose on Oct 27, 2024 11:07:29 GMT
Arblaster was on loan at the Vale last season and yesterday he bossed the midfield against us.
Says a lot.
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Post by Kingswaystokie on Oct 27, 2024 11:16:41 GMT
I didn't watch yesterday's game, but as soon as I saw the line-up I predicted what would happen. A 2 man midfield would be walked through again, and 3 central defenders would be backing off to their own penalty box, meaning most of the game would be played in the area between the halfway line and our penalty area. It would only be a matter of time before Sheff Utd scored. With 1 man up-front, and that man being Tom Cannon, we'd have no out ball, so that would only result in the ball coming back into our half as soon as we cleared it. I haven't checked the stats, but I'm guessing that's how it played out? Anyway, the stats from previous games don't lie. We've been dominated by every side we've played against other than Portsmouth. That was the game when we had Gallagher fit: the target man needed to make a 4-4-2 work. Having someone who the ball sticks to up front means our defenders, who are pretty shit on the ball, can afford to go long, bypass the midfield and move the game into the opponent's half. Ideally though, we need 2 extremely fit centre-mids (not got them) and 2 wingers who can get up and down the line getting crosses in (not got them), so to be honest I don't know why we persisted with this for as long as we did. We just haven't got the players for it. So what should we do instead? Ideally, I'd play either 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3, but again we need a forward who the ball sticks to. The defence can't be trusted to pass the ball out because they're abysmal. Going more direct is the safer option. Gallagher leading the line with a lively 2 or 3 behind him (Manhoef, Junho, Koumas) picking up the pieces would, in my opinion, turn us from the dross we're witnessing now to a top-half side. Without Gallagher though, we need to revert to 4-3-3 immediately. If Burger plays CDM we'll have someone within range of the defence who can pick the ball up from them fairly safely and transition the ball from defence to attack. We should play Junho and Manhoef as inside forwards cutting in from either wing and try to get the full-backs overlapping a bit to give us width (Easier on the left than the right if we're having to play Wilmot at RB). It's not ideal, but in Gallagher's absence, Koumas should lead the line. He's hardworking, stronger than Cannon, and has the pace to get in behind. We're not going to trouble the top of the table, but this, in my opinion, would see us staying out of trouble this year. If the manager doesn't sort it out within the next couple of games, then he has to go before he causes any more damage. Absolutely spot on Trouser |
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Oct 27, 2024 11:20:57 GMT
Arblaster was on loan at the Vale last season and yesterday he bossed the midfield against us. Says a lot. What does it say?? David Beckham was on loan at PNE and Harry Kane to Leyton Orient for example so the fact Arblaster was on loan at Port Vale is irrelevant. Fact is, Arblaster is an exceptional talent and will undoubtedly go on to win full international caps. |
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Post by jay1610 on Oct 27, 2024 11:23:49 GMT
Arblaster was on loan at the Vale last season and yesterday he bossed the midfield against us. Says a lot. What does it say?? David Beckham was on loan at PNE and Harry Kane to Leyton Orient for example so the fact Arblaster was on loan at Port Vale is irrelevant. Fact is, Arblaster is an exceptional talent and will undoubtedly go on to win full international caps. Exactly. He also captained Sheff Utd in the Prem after returning from his loan. |
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Post by canadianmoose on Oct 27, 2024 11:33:58 GMT
The fact our midfield isn’t remotely competitive is the point
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Post by xchpotter on Oct 27, 2024 11:49:08 GMT
Tactics are all well and good, but when you have team in which there will be at least two or three brain fart moments per game allied with players who have no guts, cannot challenge properly and are generally incompetent at what they do, there’s only so much impact they will have.
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Post by Ron on Oct 27, 2024 11:54:05 GMT
When you're dealt a terrible hand it doesn't really matter that much what your tactics are. This is such an unbalanced weak untalented squad it's beyond belief. Until the recruitment is sorted then we will be 16th at best and League 1 if the wheels fall off. Absolutely shocking summer of recruitment, or lack of recruitment. Walters needs have a very good January walters head needs to roll |
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Post by headsgoup on Oct 27, 2024 12:19:30 GMT
4321 I can get behind.
433 just leaves the point man isolated unless he's a prime athletic specimen.
Not too many of them around.
I'd go 4321 regardless now.
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Post by thornestein on Oct 27, 2024 12:24:35 GMT
When you're dealt a terrible hand it doesn't really matter that much what your tactics are. This is such an unbalanced weak untalented squad it's beyond belief. Until the recruitment is sorted then we will be 16th at best and League 1 if the wheels fall off. the same squad the majority of fans were excited about and condemned anyone who was against certain signings , the exact same as the previous seasons summer transfer window as well |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 27, 2024 12:25:44 GMT
He needed to stick 3 in the middle, fucking Stevie Wonder could see that.
Absolutely moronic that he didn’t.
Makes you wonder how hard being a football manager is tbh.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 27, 2024 12:27:08 GMT
I didn't watch yesterday's game, but as soon as I saw the line-up I predicted what would happen. A 2 man midfield would be walked through again, and 3 central defenders would be backing off to their own penalty box, meaning most of the game would be played in the area between the halfway line and our penalty area. It would only be a matter of time before Sheff Utd scored. With 1 man up-front, and that man being Tom Cannon, we'd have no out ball, so that would only result in the ball coming back into our half as soon as we cleared it. I haven't checked the stats, but I'm guessing that's how it played out? Anyway, the stats from previous games don't lie. We've been dominated by every side we've played against other than Portsmouth. That was the game when we had Gallagher fit: the target man needed to make a 4-4-2 work. Having someone who the ball sticks to up front means our defenders, who are pretty shit on the ball, can afford to go long, bypass the midfield and move the game into the opponent's half. Ideally though, we need 2 extremely fit centre-mids (not got them) and 2 wingers who can get up and down the line getting crosses in (not got them), so to be honest I don't know why we persisted with this for as long as we did. We just haven't got the players for it. So what should we do instead? Ideally, I'd play either 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3, but again we need a forward who the ball sticks to. The defence can't be trusted to pass the ball out because they're abysmal. Going more direct is the safer option. Gallagher leading the line with a lively 2 or 3 behind him (Manhoef, Junho, Koumas) picking up the pieces would, in my opinion, turn us from the dross we're witnessing now to a top-half side. Without Gallagher though, we need to revert to 4-3-3 immediately. If Burger plays CDM we'll have someone within range of the defence who can pick the ball up from them fairly safely and transition the ball from defence to attack. We should play Junho and Manhoef as inside forwards cutting in from either wing and try to get the full-backs overlapping a bit to give us width (Easier on the left than the right if we're having to play Wilmot at RB). It's not ideal, but in Gallagher's absence, Koumas should lead the line. He's hardworking, stronger than Cannon, and has the pace to get in behind. We're not going to trouble the top of the table, but this, in my opinion, would see us staying out of trouble this year. If the manager doesn't sort it out within the next couple of games, then he has to go before he causes any more damage. You need to pray that the manager/coach reads this messageboard 🙄 That’s been the same for every manager since latter day Hughes tbf |
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Post by wuzza on Oct 27, 2024 12:30:50 GMT
Whatever convoluted tactics and formation we employ you can’t get past the fact we have (and have had for years now) too many weak players who can only flounce around the edges of proceedings contributing the occasional little touch here and there but never being able to get stuck in and take control.
Always on the back foot - always being dictated to by the opposition . It’s the recipe for the disaster we have become 🙁
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Post by thornestein on Oct 27, 2024 12:31:48 GMT
we get over run in midfield most games , this for me is where we need to change , so a 451 is what i would like to see
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Oct 27, 2024 13:38:55 GMT
The fact our midfield isn’t remotely competitive is the point In that case you made your point with a bad example. |
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Post by canadianmoose on Oct 27, 2024 19:01:36 GMT
The fact our midfield isn’t remotely competitive is the point In that case you made your point with a bad example. I don’t agree. Any team in our position should be competing with a 20 year old that was on loan at the vale in league 1 last season. Hes not Pirlo. (Or Beckham for that matter) The fact is he ran the show with nobody on our side even coming close. It’s shows exactly how far off we are yet people think it’s tactics. It’s not, it’s the shit players we have managed to collect and we are all deluding ourselves in thinking anything else. The fact we are pinning our hopes on a Celtic reject that was on loan to Fleetwood and has a back fracture is laughable in itself. He had better be really, really good! |
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Post by sportsman on Oct 27, 2024 19:09:16 GMT
There was an article I read from him today, I think on the bbc, saying he plans to implement the plan he had originally allowed to do at 8 weeks, but says he needs to do it now after 5-6.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 27, 2024 19:25:37 GMT
There was an article I read from him today, I think on the bbc, saying he plans to implement the plan he had originally allowed to do at 8 weeks, but says he needs to do it now after 5-6. The quotes were from before yesterday by the looks of it. If we're struggling to do the "basics" he speaks of, conceding the most chances in the league , it'll be interesting to see how we do as he adds more complexity to things! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czxrgkk80vgo"So far we have seen a style of play that is very easy to identify. We did a good job in the first five weeks in order to try to put that in place that quick," Pelach told BBC Radio Stoke. "We had a reflection meeting and they (the team) are very clear in what we want to do. Now is the time for the next step with the coaches, which I planned before I came. "I wanted to do this after eight weeks but I think I will start to do this after six weeks. There are things that we can do from the tactical point of view that will help us from here." "I came here with a plan, I didn't come here to observe and see and then create a plan," said Pelach. "In terms of methodology and principles of a style of play, of course the whole idea of how we want to play the game was made for them. "Now we are five weeks into it, it is time to go more into details and maybe follow the plan but go quicker into another piece (of it) without losing the perspective of the basics - until May I think we have to be very focused on the basics and the general approach to the game." "It's a process, not something we can do in three days, because it's a young squad that we have," he said. "But they are listening and learning a lot, how to prevent, for example, the goal we conceded against Bristol (City) from a quick corner - we could have avoided it very easily. If you have an older squad this doesn't happen. "I don't say that I want an older squad, but if you compare this to Norwich's squad, players manage this by themselves, they have played enough games. This is not the case here and we will lose some points along the way." |
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Post by bagnallboothen on Oct 27, 2024 19:32:06 GMT
There was an article I read from him today, I think on the bbc, saying he plans to implement the plan he had originally allowed to do at 8 weeks, but says he needs to do it now after 5-6. The quotes were from before yesterday by the looks of it. If we're struggling to do the "basics" he speaks of, conceding the most chances in the league , it'll be interesting to see how we do as he adds more complexity to things! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czxrgkk80vgo"So far we have seen a style of play that is very easy to identify. We did a good job in the first five weeks in order to try to put that in place that quick," Pelach told BBC Radio Stoke. "We had a reflection meeting and they (the team) are very clear in what we want to do. Now is the time for the next step with the coaches, which I planned before I came. "I wanted to do this after eight weeks but I think I will start to do this after six weeks. There are things that we can do from the tactical point of view that will help us from here." "I came here with a plan, I didn't come here to observe and see and then create a plan," said Pelach. "In terms of methodology and principles of a style of play, of course the whole idea of how we want to play the game was made for them. "Now we are five weeks into it, it is time to go more into details and maybe follow the plan but go quicker into another piece (of it) without losing the perspective of the basics - until May I think we have to be very focused on the basics and the general approach to the game." "It's a process, not something we can do in three days, because it's a young squad that we have," he said. "But they are listening and learning a lot, how to prevent, for example, the goal we conceded against Bristol (City) from a quick corner - we could have avoided it very easily. If you have an older squad this doesn't happen. "I don't say that I want an older squad, but if you compare this to Norwich's squad, players manage this by themselves, they have played enough games. This is not the case here and we will lose some points along the way." He cannot be serious. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 27, 2024 19:34:39 GMT
There was an article I read from him today, I think on the bbc, saying he plans to implement the plan he had originally allowed to do at 8 weeks, but says he needs to do it now after 5-6. The quotes were from before yesterday by the looks of it. If we're struggling to do the "basics" he speaks of, conceding the most chances in the league , it'll be interesting to see how we do as he adds more complexity to things! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czxrgkk80vgo"So far we have seen a style of play that is very easy to identify. We did a good job in the first five weeks in order to try to put that in place that quick," Pelach told BBC Radio Stoke. "We had a reflection meeting and they (the team) are very clear in what we want to do. Now is the time for the next step with the coaches, which I planned before I came. "I wanted to do this after eight weeks but I think I will start to do this after six weeks. There are things that we can do from the tactical point of view that will help us from here." "I came here with a plan, I didn't come here to observe and see and then create a plan," said Pelach. "In terms of methodology and principles of a style of play, of course the whole idea of how we want to play the game was made for them. "Now we are five weeks into it, it is time to go more into details and maybe follow the plan but go quicker into another piece (of it) without losing the perspective of the basics - until May I think we have to be very focused on the basics and the general approach to the game." "It's a process, not something we can do in three days, because it's a young squad that we have," he said. "But they are listening and learning a lot, how to prevent, for example, the goal we conceded against Bristol (City) from a quick corner - we could have avoided it very easily. If you have an older squad this doesn't happen. "I don't say that I want an older squad, but if you compare this to Norwich's squad, players manage this by themselves, they have played enough games. This is not the case here and we will lose some points along the way." Waffle and babble for me and we absolutely can’t afford to lose any points in a learning curve we are well short of the safety requirement on recent performances. |
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 27, 2024 19:35:13 GMT
4-2-3-1
4 proper defenders (we don't have so muddle through... Phillips plays)
2 holding midfielders - in the Pulis cage. Their whole purpose is to protect the back 4. That's it. Nothing more nothing less.
The sole aim of every game is to keep a clean sheet.
We then have 4 players to try and nick a goal. Million, Bae on the wings. Moran as a 10 and then Koumas/Cannon upfront. They work hard track back but with the 6 holding have a freedom to take a chance or two.
If we don't start keeping clean sheets we can pack our picnic bag and head off to League 1... where we wont half spunk some money.
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Post by kustokie on Oct 27, 2024 20:02:20 GMT
There was an article I read from him today, I think on the bbc, saying he plans to implement the plan he had originally allowed to do at 8 weeks, but says he needs to do it now after 5-6. The quotes were from before yesterday by the looks of it. If we're struggling to do the "basics" he speaks of, conceding the most chances in the league , it'll be interesting to see how we do as he adds more complexity to things! www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czxrgkk80vgo"So far we have seen a style of play that is very easy to identify. We did a good job in the first five weeks in order to try to put that in place that quick," Pelach told BBC Radio Stoke. "We had a reflection meeting and they (the team) are very clear in what we want to do. Now is the time for the next step with the coaches, which I planned before I came. "I wanted to do this after eight weeks but I think I will start to do this after six weeks. There are things that we can do from the tactical point of view that will help us from here." "I came here with a plan, I didn't come here to observe and see and then create a plan," said Pelach. "In terms of methodology and principles of a style of play, of course the whole idea of how we want to play the game was made for them. "Now we are five weeks into it, it is time to go more into details and maybe follow the plan but go quicker into another piece (of it) without losing the perspective of the basics - until May I think we have to be very focused on the basics and the general approach to the game." "It's a process, not something we can do in three days, because it's a young squad that we have," he said. "But they are listening and learning a lot, how to prevent, for example, the goal we conceded against Bristol (City) from a quick corner - we could have avoided it very easily. If you have an older squad this doesn't happen. "I don't say that I want an older squad, but if you compare this to Norwich's squad, players manage this by themselves, they have played enough games. This is not the case here and we will lose some points along the way." Makes about as much sense as Stanley Unwin www.youtube.com/results?search_query=stanley+unwin |
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