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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 2:15:39 GMT
The W is up front, the M at the back, so should be called M-W really to be consistent with how we usually write these things. It's basically a 3 2 2 3. Can be that from the off or can play a 4 at the back and switch to a 3 2 2 3 when in possession....there's various ways to do that, eg can drop the defensive mid between the centre backs, and the full backs pushed up into high wingers...or can move one of the full backs alongside the defensive mid to form a double pivot, ("inverted full back"?), the other full back being now part of a back three, and the two 8s pushing up to support the front 3. Anyway, whatever, I thought this was a very interesting article about it. The legendary Hungary team of the 1950s played this formation by the way. And Pep and Tuchel play it too. www.coachesvoice.com/cv/wm-formation-football-tactics-explained-tuchel-guardiola-chapman/ |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 16, 2024 7:36:05 GMT
I like that the article has pictures showing what they're banging on about. Worth a click to look at them and see even without reading 👍
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Post by Gods on Oct 16, 2024 7:37:56 GMT
Blimey, I'm still struggling with 4-4-2!
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 7:58:58 GMT
Blimey, I'm still struggling with 4-4-2! Lol. 4-4-2 is the future! |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 8:01:21 GMT
I like that the article has pictures showing what they're banging on about. Worth a click to look at them and see even without reading 👍 Yeah the pictures made it make sense to me. Reminded me of it happening in matches. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 16, 2024 11:53:16 GMT
I'm a 442 person. You can adjust shape easier and go back to it quicker. But I'm a dinosaur. 😃
A lot of formations are selected based on flexibility. So they're chosen to use a different one.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Oct 16, 2024 11:57:54 GMT
I’m yet to see us utilise it to a standard anything better than a disaster. I don’t think Championship players are capable.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 16, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
I'd never make it as a manager..... It gives me headache just reading it, nevermind working it out!!! 😵💫
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 13:23:39 GMT
I'm a 442 person. You can adjust shape easier and go back to it quicker. But I'm a dinosaur. 😃 A lot of formations are selected based on flexibility. So they're chosen to use a different one. Haha I think I might be a dinosaur as well then  I grew up with 442 and it always seemed the most simple and effective to me. And it was so refreshing last week, with Cannon and Gally up front, I thought yes 442 is back! And yeah agree, and like it says in the article, that flexibility relies on the versatility of the players, so I guess a clever coach gauges the versatility of the players and choose formations accordingly. So it bodes well that Narcís said he's going to choose a style of play that suits the players, I do get the impression he's clever enough. But you can't beat experience. Let's just hope it all clicks for him sooner rather than later! |
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Post by maine on Oct 16, 2024 13:28:03 GMT
I'm getting a 'page not found' message from the link. I guess someone thinks there's little sense in trying to persuade me it makes sense?
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 13:29:06 GMT
I’m yet to see us utilise it to a standard anything better than a disaster. I don’t think Championship players are capable. When I saw the examples of teams that used it I had the same thought! It relies on versatility as well as skill, and in large measure. And there's not many championship players have either let alone both to that extent. |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 13:33:12 GMT
I'd never make it as a manager..... It gives me headache just reading it, nevermind working it out!!! 😵💫 Just go for simple 442 and tell your players kick lumps out of em you'll be fine! 😁 |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 16, 2024 13:39:59 GMT
I'd never make it as a manager..... It gives me headache just reading it, nevermind working it out!!! 😵💫 Just go for simple 442 and tell your players kick lumps out of em you'll be fine! 😁 It worked for Pulis!!! 😁 |
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Post by senojbor on Oct 16, 2024 13:44:37 GMT
Just go for simple 442 and tell your players kick lumps out of em you'll be fine! 😁 It worked for Pulis!!! 😁 Worked for Waddo too! |
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Post by noustie on Oct 16, 2024 14:26:01 GMT
I'm a 442 person. You can adjust shape easier and go back to it quicker. But I'm a dinosaur. 😃 A lot of formations are selected based on flexibility. So they're chosen to use a different one. I reckon within 18-24 months 4-4-2 will be retro-chic in vogue formation of choice. The way to pin inverted wingbacks is to have wingers following them and the way to beat the press is lump it for a big 'un to link up with the little 'uns. |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 14:28:54 GMT
I'm getting a 'page not found' message from the link. I guess someone thinks there's little sense in trying to persuade me it makes sense? I just clicked the link and got 'page not found' too. So I went to coachesvoice.com and the article isn't there any more, it seems to have disappeared. I guess someone thinks there's little sense in trying to persuade ANYONE it makes sense! That is just too weird though. I bet they saw this thread and took it down just to spite us lol. Probably fucking Arsenal fans Edit: the article has come back! |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 14:31:01 GMT
Just go for simple 442 and tell your players kick lumps out of em you'll be fine! 😁 It worked for Pulis!!! 😁 Exactly my thoughts!!! 😁 |
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Post by lordb on Oct 16, 2024 14:48:39 GMT
I'm a 442 person. You can adjust shape easier and go back to it quicker. But I'm a dinosaur. 😃 A lot of formations are selected based on flexibility. So they're chosen to use a different one. I reckon within 18-24 months 4-4-2 will be retro-chic in vogue formation of choice. The way to pin inverted wingbacks is to have wingers following them and the way to beat the press is lump it for a big 'un to link up with the little 'uns. Next step,left footers on left wing and right footers on the right Leaving men up at corners |
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Post by noustie on Oct 16, 2024 15:27:38 GMT
The W is up front, the M at the back, so should be called M-W really to be consistent with how we usually write these things. It's basically a 3 2 2 3. Can be that from the off or can play a 4 at the back and switch to a 3 2 2 3 when in possession....there's various ways to do that, eg can drop the defensive mid between the centre backs, and the full backs pushed up into high wingers...or can move one of the full backs alongside the defensive mid to form a double pivot, ("inverted full back"?), the other full back being now part of a back three, and the two 8s pushing up to support the front 3. Anyway, whatever, I thought this was a very interesting article about it. The legendary Hungary team of the 1950s played this formation by the way. And Pep and Tuchel play it too. www.coachesvoice.com/cv/wm-formation-football-tactics-explained-tuchel-guardiola-chapman/Think it was in 'Inverting the Pyramid' that the birth place for a lot of the tactical revolutions even today can be traced back to the coffee houses of Austria - the tactics they used in 1934 apparently were miles ahead and then in turn were the platform for Hungary to kick on: thesefootballtimes.co/2018/10/10/how-viennas-coffee-houses-gave-rise-to-a-new-era-of-intellectualism-in-football/ |
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Post by noustie on Oct 16, 2024 16:20:53 GMT
I reckon within 18-24 months 4-4-2 will be retro-chic in vogue formation of choice. The way to pin inverted wingbacks is to have wingers following them and the way to beat the press is lump it for a big 'un to link up with the little 'uns. Next step,left footers on left wing and right footers on the right Leaving men up at corners Stop it with the dirty talk - you're giving me a semi! |
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Post by ohbottom on Oct 16, 2024 16:29:53 GMT
1111111111
True flexibility
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Post by thicknthin on Oct 16, 2024 17:44:15 GMT
Just go for simple 442 and tell your players kick lumps out of em you'll be fine! 😁 It worked for Pulis!!! 😁 Pulis never played 442, he played the more popular 811 or should that be 81…………1  |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 16, 2024 17:48:56 GMT
I like the 3-3-3-1 the Argies used to good effect in that World Cup a while back
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Post by maninasuitcase on Oct 16, 2024 17:55:31 GMT
Blimey, I'm still struggling with 4-4-2! Lol. 4-4-2 is the future! Logic says it will come back into favour eventually. It's all cyclic. |
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Post by maine on Oct 16, 2024 19:29:06 GMT
Hey, here's a thought. How about a goalie. a centre half, 2 full backs, 2 half backs, 2 inside forwards, 2 wingers and 1 centre forward.
I'm all for 'original' ideas!
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 22:09:53 GMT
The W is up front, the M at the back, so should be called M-W really to be consistent with how we usually write these things. It's basically a 3 2 2 3. Can be that from the off or can play a 4 at the back and switch to a 3 2 2 3 when in possession....there's various ways to do that, eg can drop the defensive mid between the centre backs, and the full backs pushed up into high wingers...or can move one of the full backs alongside the defensive mid to form a double pivot, ("inverted full back"?), the other full back being now part of a back three, and the two 8s pushing up to support the front 3. Anyway, whatever, I thought this was a very interesting article about it. The legendary Hungary team of the 1950s played this formation by the way. And Pep and Tuchel play it too. www.coachesvoice.com/cv/wm-formation-football-tactics-explained-tuchel-guardiola-chapman/Think it was in 'Inverting the Pyramid' that the birth place for a lot of the tactical revolutions even today can be traced back to the coffee houses of Austria - the tactics they used in 1934 apparently were miles ahead and then in turn were the platform for Hungary to kick on: thesefootballtimes.co/2018/10/10/how-viennas-coffee-houses-gave-rise-to-a-new-era-of-intellectualism-in-football/That's a fascinating read that, never heard about all that, or the Austrian Wunderteam. The fact intelligentsia were so much more involved in football on the continent than in UK explains a lot about the differences in styles of play between. The tactics of modern football in general owe a lot to Stoke City. I was reading in a book called The Potteries Derbies (I'll try find it and find the reference) about how in the early days of the original football league the game was mainly a series of 'scrimmages', with everybody piling in trying get the ball, and when a player managed to get the ball and break free he'd try and get as far up the pitch as he could with it before the next scrimmage broke out. Then Stoke developed the new tactic of spreading their players all over the pitch to make use of all the space, and passing the ball between team mates, and around the oppositions attempts at scrimmaging for it. These tactics bewildered other teams and we went on a series of massive wins, until the other teams sussed it out and started copying what we were doing. So the way the game has been played ever since those early days owes a lot to Stoke! |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 22:16:56 GMT
1111111111 True flexibility In the early days it was 10* I think, so 1111111111 would be the ultimate in advanced tactics! *It fluctuated during the game between 10-0-0, 0-10-0 and 0-0-10 |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 22:20:23 GMT
Lol. 4-4-2 is the future! Logic says it will come back into favour eventually. It's all cyclic. Was thinking same thing, and when I saw us with what seemed like a 4-4-2 the other week I thought it might give us the edge on other teams til they caught on |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 22:26:17 GMT
Hey, here's a thought. How about a goalie. a centre half, 2 full backs, 2 half backs, 2 inside forwards, 2 wingers and 1 centre forward. I'm all for 'original' ideas! I can still remember the names for every position in that formation lol. In the article (which has mysteriously disappeared) it was saying it was the change in the offside rule, from 3 defenders needing to be between the attacker and the goal, to just two, that led to that formation going out of fashion. |
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Post by davethebass on Oct 16, 2024 22:33:03 GMT
I'm getting a 'page not found' message from the link. I guess someone thinks there's little sense in trying to persuade me it makes sense? the article's come back now! (Thought I'd tag you mr_DaftBurger as you'd liked Maine's post) |
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